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My first 1/4/Epi andro log (OL)

Just jumped on the scales this morning for an accurate reading and I'm up 1.5 kg/3.3 pounds. Anyone know how much of this will be muscle after only my 9th day of cycle? I'm guessing not a lot but as I'm Keto adapted I don't generally hold a lot of water, plus I don't look bloated
 
Vikingbro said:
Just jumped on the scales this morning for an accurate reading and I'm up 1.5 kg/3.3 pounds. Anyone know how much of this will be muscle after only my 9th day of cycle? I'm guessing not a lot but as I'm Keto adapted I don't generally hold a lot of water, plus I don't look bloated
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Depends how you wanna define muscle :D

Water, glycogen...its all good potential precursor to new muscle tissue. Itll contribute to strength and "endurance" as well, so long term net result...more new muscle (than youd get natty, at any rate).
 
NewAgeMayan said:
Depends how you wanna define muscle :D

Water, glycogen...its all good potential precursor to new muscle tissue. Itll contribute to strength and "endurance" as well, so long term net result...more new muscle (than youd get natty, at any rate).
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Can't be much glycogen being Keto adapted mate. My total Carb intake never exceeds 30 grams
 
NewAgeMayan said:
If youre still eating plenty of protein couldnt the body convert that? Especially considering the demands these andro compounds may be making.
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Absolutely, it depends on how much protein for sure. I'm currently cutting (236lbs @ 20%bf)at 1900 cals on 25 g carbs max and only about 120g protein, rest is fat. Anymore protein than that and I get knocked out of ketosis according to my ketogenix breathalyzer.
 
Br1ck_Sh1thouse said:
Absolutely, it depends on how much protein for sure. I'm currently cutting (236lbs @ 20%bf)at 1900 cals on 25 g carbs max and only about 120g protein, rest is fat. Anymore protein than that and I get knocked out of ketosis according to my ketogenix breathalyzer.
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Your protein is very low man... I've been able to stay in keto eating close to a gram of protein per lb of overall BW.
Vikingbro if your goal is to add some LBM, I'd personally stop the keto diet.
 
Ya I know it's low, but it seems to work, it took me a long time to allow myself to go that low, I used to go for 1g/lb too but I could never get into ketosis. Once I finally dropped the protein I finally started getting into ketosis. As of right now I'm not losing any strength in the gym but I'm shedding weight so far now it's working. If I start losing strength then I'll have to re-assess. What's interesting too is about a year ago I did a recomp cycle on just hi-tech 1-test on strictly keto diet with only 150g of protein and over 5 weeks I put on a solid 8lbs and lost 10lbs of fat. I think it just comes down to the everyone is different.
 
Hell yeah br1ck_sh1thouse.. awesome success on that recomp; really can't argue with that. I always lose a little strength in keto, even after I get adapted my lifts go down... so I try to consume as much protein and carbs as possible before getting thrown out of keto... last time I ran it I weighed 170ish and was consuming ~170p and 50-60carbs and remained in ketosis.
 
NewAgeMayan said:
If youre still eating plenty of protein couldnt the body convert that? Especially considering the demands these andro compounds may be making.
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Good point you made. I'm careful that I mix my protein with fats to hinder absorption and conversion via gluconeogenesis. I also don't take too much protein or fast acting proteins I.e pure whey without mixing it with casein and a little fat. I test my ketones daily too.
 
Vikingbro said:
Funnily enough I was thinking of stopping Keto during this cycle
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Take advantage of insulin when your running anabolics.... that's my thinking at least. The gear will allow for better nitrogen retention, recovery time, etc...

Fat gain on cycle is diet dependent, so if your careful with you kcal surplus and eat clean you should be g2g.

You could always go back to a keto diet after your PCT if you wanna cut some BF gained on cycle
 
mmorso said:
Take advantage of insulin when your running anabolics.... that's my thinking at least. The gear will allow for better nitrogen retention, recovery time, etc...

Fat gain on cycle is diet dependent, so if your careful with you kcal surplus and eat clean you should be g2g.

You could always go back to a keto diet after your PCT if you wanna cut some BF gained on cycle
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I was considering doing this or just having carbs post workout when my receptors are primed for an insulin response
 
Vikingbro said:
I am doing this mate but starting at 250 for a week before. I will eventually take it up to 750
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Nice!!! I noticed a substantial difference between 500 & 750 in sides.. I wish I could have run it at 750.

When you go to 500 it'll dry you out really quick.
 
I started to get prostate issues: feeling like I wasn't emptying my bladder out completely and urinary urgency. My hair was shedding pretty bad at 750 too.

When I bumped the dose down to 500mg everything went back to normal. That of course is just how I respond to epiandro.
 
mmorso said:
I started to get prostate issues: feeling like I wasn't emptying my bladder out completely and urinary urgency. My hair was shedding pretty bad at 750 too.

When I bumped the dose down to 500mg everything went back to normal. That of course is just how I respond to epiandro.
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Thanks mate. I will look out for these too.
 
mmorso said:
Hell yeah br1ck_sh1thouse.. awesome success on that recomp; really can't argue with that. I always lose a little strength in keto, even after I get adapted my lifts go down... so I try to consume as much protein and carbs as possible before getting thrown out of keto... last time I ran it I weighed 170ish and was consuming ~170p and 50-60carbs and remained in ketosis.
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Do you only do keto for cutting or are you full time?
 
Br1ck_Sh1thouse said:
Do you only do keto for cutting or are you full time?
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Only for cutting. I think it's impossible to put on LBM while in ketosis. Also, the discipline of keto gets hard for me socially, and I am trying really hard not to become a high maintenance narcissists with my sleep/training/diet needs. Know what I mean?
 
mmorso said:
Only for cutting. I think it's impossible to put on LBM while in ketosis. Also, the discipline of keto gets hard for me socially, and I am trying really hard not to become a high maintenance narcissists with my sleep/training/diet needs. Know what I mean?
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Just embrace narcissism man, there is a correlation between narcissism and success!
 
Vikingbro said:
You say impossible to put on LBM while in ketosis. Even on a calorie surplus?
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I think it all depends on the person, if I go out of keto and put weight on eating carbs no matter how cleanly I eat it tends to be bloat and/or fat with little muscle. When I put weight on while in keto it's all solid rock hard muscle. My brother in law is very similar to me but then all my friends are the opposite. I think it's worth experimenting and figuring it out. Plus for me by eating keto my energy levels are constant all day long instead of up and down.
 
Br1ck_Sh1thouse said:
I think it all depends on the person, if I go out of keto and put weight on eating carbs no matter how cleanly I eat it tends to be bloat and/or fat with little muscle. When I put weight on while in keto it's all solid rock hard muscle. My brother in law is very similar to me but then all my friends are the opposite. I think it's worth experimenting and figuring it out. Plus for me by eating keto my energy levels are constant all day long instead of up and down.
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This is all very true for me too. I am very carb sensitive and hold a lot of water weight with carbs which is why I chose Keto.
 
Day 17 update-

I'm up 2.5 kg/5.5 pounds. I've just started noticing my strength has gone up and I'm looking leaner too which makes me think I may be up a bit more with my fat loss. Endurance is solid too with Epi 500mg PWO.

I was under the impression that the andros didn't kick in till the 3 week mark so is this amount of muscle gain normal after 17 days? I appreciate not all of it is muscle and likely some water but it's certainly not fat.
 
Yea, I am sitting roughly around the same weight bench mark at Day 20 (nearing the end of week 3). I'm near to around 3kgs up, however this is most likely due to the bulking diet! I have had quite a few compliments on size changes etc, having met up with old alumni who I haven't seen in ages (good litmus test).

Like you I'm waiting to see what the effects are as of this week 4!

V
 
Varangie said:
Yea, I am sitting roughly around the same weight bench mark at Day 20 (nearing the end of week 3). I'm near to around 3kgs up, however this is most likely due to the bulking diet! I have had quite a few compliments on size changes etc, having met up with old alumni who I haven't seen in ages (good litmus test).

Like you I'm waiting to see what the effects are as of this week 4!

V
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Good stuff mate. Bring on dem gainz
 
Day 24

Quick update guys and gals. I'm up to 90kg. That's a whopping 6kg/13.2 pounds!!! In 24 days. I really did not expect gains like this. I look quite a bit bigger but not fatter which is good. I'm going HAM in the gym though which is helping as I've noticed the Epi PWO seems to make me strong as fck.
 
Tymba said:
20 mg of 4 ad taken before train and 20 before bed (dissolving tab)
20mg 1 andro taken same way about 10 min apart
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Anyone else notice this? I figured someone would have gave him some further advice.
40mg of each of those a day is pointless. That's 8.25x less than the recommended dose of 330mg each.
Olympus Labs UK has the best deal on it, right now especially.
 
Vikingbro said:
Day 24

Quick update guys and gals. I'm up to 90kg. That's a whopping 6kg/13.2 pounds!!! In 24 days. I really did not expect gains like this. I look quite a bit bigger but not fatter which is good. I'm going HAM in the gym though which is helping as I've noticed the Epi PWO seems to make me strong as fck.
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Thats impressive man. Keep it up!
 
jathan_howe said:
Anyone else notice this? I figured someone would have gave him some further advice.
40mg of each of those a day is pointless. That's 8.25x less than the recommended dose of 330mg each.
Olympus Labs UK has the best deal on it, right now especially.
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Jathan where did you read this? Is it someone's log?
 
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