My Cenegenics Experience

checking on cenegenics experience

colkurtz,

Have you been able to maintain your regimen with cenegenics? Any specifics you can share?
 
randal said:
colkurtz,

Have you been able to maintain your regimen with cenegenics? Any specifics you can share?
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I took an eight month break from HCG but didn't care for the way I felt. In December I started back on the HCG protocol at Cenegenics - this time at 2000 IUs per week. Six weeks later my draw revealed total testosterone at 957 with Fee at 233 and estradiol at 26. I'm also taking 1.5 mg of Arimidex per week, 25 mg of progesterone daily and 75 mg of DHEA. I feel great.
 
colkurtz_spf said:
I took an eight month break from HCG but didn't care for the way I felt. In December I started back on the HCG protocol at Cenegenics - this time at 2000 IUs per week. Six weeks later my draw revealed total testosterone at 957 with Fee at 233 and estradiol at 26. I'm also taking 1.5 mg of Arimidex per week, 25 mg of progesterone daily and 75 mg of DHEA. I feel great.
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I think I am going to talk with my doc about doing 500-600 IUs of hCG EOD, and lose the T Cyp. It will be cheaper, easier and less meds. Colkurtz, do you have any suggestion as to whether I should taper off the T Cyp? I'm wondering if my T levels will remain fairly stable if I stop the T and triple my hCG level. I would imagine that my TT would remain in the range of 1,000. Right now, that is about the trough. Thanks in advance for any thoughts/advice.
 
I don't know how much HCG you'll need to maintain your TT level. You may need a higher level to start. I did after coming off of the test cream. You'll probably need to titrate your dose based on your labs. I would draw every six weeks until you get it right. Arimidex may be needed eventually.

jinxie said:
I think I am going to talk with my doc about doing 500-600 IUs of hCG EOD, and lose the T Cyp. It will be cheaper, easier and less meds. Colkurtz, do you have any suggestion as to whether I should taper off the T Cyp? I'm wondering if my T levels will remain fairly stable if I stop the T and triple my hCG level. I would imagine that my TT would remain in the range of 1,000. Right now, that is about the trough. Thanks in advance for any thoughts/advice.
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colkurtz_spf said:
I don't know how much HCG you'll need to maintain your TT level. You may need a higher level to start. I did after coming off of the test cream. You'll probably need to titrate your dose based on your labs. I would draw every six weeks until you get it right. Arimidex may be needed eventually.
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I'm already on Arimidex. So, when you go of from T-cyp/hCG, to hCG monotherapy, you need to start off higher on the hCG? This is the sort of stuff I will just be figuring out with my doc; he doesnt seem to know, other than by trial and error. He'll invite me to propose a starting dose. Do you have any ideas? Maybe it should be 800 EOD to start. I recall you saying to Gator that ED is unnecessary given half life, right?

Thanks dude!
 
jinxie said:
I'm already on Arimidex. So, when you go of from T-cyp/hCG, to hCG monotherapy, you need to start off higher on the hCG? This is the sort of stuff I will just be figuring out with my doc; he doesnt seem to know, other than by trial and error. He'll invite me to propose a starting dose. Do you have any ideas? Maybe it should be 800 EOD to start. I recall you saying to Gator that ED is unnecessary given half life, right?

Thanks dude!
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I started from a very different place. I had been on the cream alone for a year then stopped and crashed. My doc started me on 5000 IUS twice per week for the first two months. By no means is that my recommendation to you.

I think you could start with 1000 IUs every other day. That would be around 3500 per week. Draw blood in 6 weeks and see what you get. If your levels are perfect than remain at that dose for another six weeks and test again. If E2 is too high increase your Arimidex. You may see that your levels continue to increase every six weeks on the same dose - I did. At that point you can start to trim your dose until you are at a comfortable level.
 
colkurtz_spf said:
I started from a very different place. I had been on the cream alone for a year then stopped and crashed. My doc started me on 5000 IUS twice per week for the first two months. By no means is that my recommendation to you.

I think you could start with 1000 IUs every other day. That would be around 3500 per week. Draw blood in 6 weeks and see what you get. If your levels are perfect than remain at that dose for another six weeks and test again. If E2 is too high increase your Arimidex. You may see that your levels continue to increase every six weeks on the same dose - I did. At that point you can start to trim your dose until you are at a comfortable level.
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Thanks bro. Remind me, is hCG more likely to aromatize, or is it merely dependent on how much TT is increased? I recall people saying that hCG is morely succeptible to aromatization. If that is so, I would imagine that I may run into some significant E2 issues. 100 mgs of T-cyp and 500 IUs/week of hCG sent my E2 from 20 to 82; my TT on Day 6 was 1182 (hCG injections were days 5 and 6, and T cyp on Day 7 of the preceding week), from 350. From this, I inferred that I am a strong responder to hCG. Would you agree?

Thanks for all your help. I plan to discuss this with my doc in the next week.

J
 
Are you primary?? I am primary and was on solo 5000 units of HCG a week. It only managed to raise my TT to 375..
I am on 100 mg of test cyp right now with no HCG.
My TT went up to 900 and my free went to 245..

If you are primary you will probaby drop to a number you were at before the test cyp therapy.
 
biker340 said:
Are you primary?? I am primary and was on solo 5000 units of HCG a week. It only managed to raise my TT to 375..
I am on 100 mg of test cyp right now with no HCG.
My TT went up to 900 and my free went to 245..

If you are primary you will probaby drop to a number you were at before the test cyp therapy.
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That's correct. HCG only works if the problem is not the testes. With me it's the hypothalmus and low LH.
 
colkurtz_spf said:
I started from a very different place. I had been on the cream alone for a year then stopped and crashed. My doc started me on 5000 IUS twice per week for the first two months. By no means is that my recommendation to you.

I think you could start with 1000 IUs every other day. That would be around 3500 per week. Draw blood in 6 weeks and see what you get. If your levels are perfect than remain at that dose for another six weeks and test again. If E2 is too high increase your Arimidex. You may see that your levels continue to increase every six weeks on the same dose - I did. At that point you can start to trim your dose until you are at a comfortable level.
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I like this post, looks like a good/practical way for someone deciding to find out if he is secondary.

I have used your post as a reference here:
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What is you definition of comfortable (testosterone) level?

Going by numbers I saw floating around, I am thinking of

FreeT=>160
when one is using HCG only, plus Arnastrozole but no external testosterone.

To find out that FreeT #
one would use either Quest Diagnostics test
Testosterone, Free, Bio/Total (LC/MS/MS)
or
dr Shippen's chart using TotalT and SHBG values, post #41
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/66268-jan-s-bloodtest-2.html
or
calculator:
Invalid Link Removed
 
You are the resident expert on these types of issues, Jan, but I am fairly confident I will bust 200 FT on 2k IUs of HCG (600 IUs EOD) and ~1.5 mgs of Arnastrozole.
 
That's a good question. Maybe the answer depends on the individual. FT at 160 should be enough for anyone. I feel good at 233, but felt better in the 300 range. I didn't see much of an added benefit at 425. It only raised my estrogen level.
 
colkurtz_spf said:
That's a good question. Maybe the answer depends on the individual. FT at 160 should be enough for anyone. I feel good at 233, but felt better in the 300 range. I didn't see much of an added benefit at 425. It only raised my estrogen level.
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Solid information, thank you.

.
 
beckerj said:
So if ones issues was varicocele the HCG treatment would not be advisable correct ?

Thanks
Jason
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Becker, not sure what you are inferring that from, but I dont think that is the case. hCG could be the proper treatment, in spite of a vericocele.
 
Primary = Varicocele ?

colkurtz_spf said:
That's correct. HCG only works if the problem is not the testes. With me it's the hypothalmus and low LH.
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I had bilateral varicocele so I wonder if the HCG protocol would even be a right course of action for those with varicocele, seeing as though colkurtz_spf is saying that HCG only works if the problem is not the testes ....

Right now I am on androgel .... I have been for 2 1/2 weeks .... I had the "WOW" "Eurphoric" experience and now I have, as of today upped the dosage to 6 pumps, seeing as though I have had the crash ....
 
beckerj said:
I had bilateral varicocele so I wonder if the HCG protocol would even be a right course of action for those with varicocele, seeing as though colkurtz_spf is saying that HCG only works if the problem is not the testes ....

Right now I am on androgel .... I have been for 2 1/2 weeks .... I had the "WOW" "Eurphoric" experience and now I have, as of today upped the dosage to 6 pumps, seeing as though I have had the crash ....
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Becker, it all depends on how impaired the testes are. You can have vericoceles, and still produce optimal levels of T, theoretically.
 
I have yet to hear from one person on here that has had varicocele and surgery recover their T .... if you search the forum for varicocele and read through the posts .... most of us are on T or trying anyting and everything to get back to normal .....

Not sure where my testes are .... I know i am not right though ....
 
beckerj said:
I have yet to hear from one person on here that has had varicocele and surgery recover their T .... if you search the forum for varicocele and read through the posts .... most of us are on T or trying anyting and everything to get back to normal .....

Not sure where my testes are .... I know i am not right though ....
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Well, you need to consider your audience . . . on a steroid forum. When I thought I had a varicocele (ended up being a testicle that did not completely descend, with a thick spermatic cord), I did a fair amount of research, and I am fairly certain there are some with varicoceles with optimal testosterone. That said, there likely is some impairment; but that doesnt mean hCG is not worth a try.

Good luck.
 
beckerj said:
I have yet to hear from one person on here that has had varicocele and surgery recover their T .... if you search the forum for varicocele and read through the posts .... most of us are on T or trying anyting and everything to get back to normal .....

Not sure where my testes are .... I know i am not right though ....
Click to expand...


becker,

what were your LH and FSH levels before surgery.If LH level was low and FSH normal, then you dont have any problem with testes
 
jinxie - I hear ya .... There may be some with optimal T after surgery but is is a fact that varicocele does cause a drop in T .... There is even more information that shows that there is a threshold of T .... Once you drop below it you experience the symptoms ....

I was thinking of trying the HCG after my 30 day trial of Androgel, if the DR will even entertain it .... We all know how DR's are .... So I am fairly sure, unless after meeting with the new Endo in July, I am stuck with Androgel for the time being ....

I did up my dosage to 6 pumps a day and added the under arms as a application point .... 2nd day on 6 pumps and my energy is great .... been a busy little bee here at work ... installing monitors and building pc's left and right .... SMILE

I just wish that more info was out there letting first time users of Androgel of the WOW and Crash .... It really made me feel like stopping the Androgel ....
 
beckerj said:
jinxie - I hear ya .... There may be some with optimal T after surgery but is is a fact that varicocele does cause a drop in T .... There is even more information that shows that there is a threshold of T .... Once you drop below it you experience the symptoms ....

I was thinking of trying the HCG after my 30 day trial of Androgel, if the DR will even entertain it .... We all know how DR's are .... So I am fairly sure, unless after meeting with the new Endo in July, I am stuck with Androgel for the time being ....

I did up my dosage to 6 pumps a day and added the under arms as a application point .... 2nd day on 6 pumps and my energy is great .... been a busy little bee here at work ... installing monitors and building pc's left and right .... SMILE

I just wish that more info was out there letting first time users of Androgel of the WOW and Crash .... It really made me feel like stopping the Androgel ....
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Glad to hear your feeling well! Good luck with the doc.
 
Thanks man ....

I am gonna put out a general question ....

How do we overcome the performance anxiety that we have when we start to get better ?

I get so nervous when my other half wants to get busy .... Now if i am the one that is chasing it i am not so nervous ....
 
beckerj said:
Thanks man ....

I am gonna put out a general question ....

How do we overcome the performance anxiety that we have when we start to get better ?

I get so nervous when my other half wants to get busy .... Now if i am the one that is chasing it i am not so nervous ....
Click to expand...

My best advice, which is easier said than done, is to be a man, and admit your anxieties and insecurities, so that you and yours can conquer them together. I understand that women find such admissions very endearing.
 
darkblue1 said:
Didnt you go for any surgery for curing hypothlamus disorder
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My Hypothalmus does not produce an adequate level of LH for my testosterone production. My baseline is 3.9. For some that may be enough, but not for me. I'm not sure that brain surgery is the answer. My deficiency could be due to aging or environmental factors. I didn't have this problem when I was younger, and in any case my therapy is working.
 
colonel kurtz,
with a resting heart rate of 60bpm, you must be really fit. do you do lots of cardio ?


colkurtz_spf said:
My visit started Friday morning at Florida Atlantic University’s MRI unit. That’s where I had my bone density test. Upon arrival I was greeted by Dr Willix’s assistant. She stayed with me and then I followed her back to the main office at Cenegenics. When I arrived, another assistant welcomed me; there was a sign in the waiting room with my personal greeting. Apparently the day was set aside for me. They prepared a nicely appointed room with a laptop, fruit, water and an assortment of teas. A menu was waiting on the table for my lunch selection. And in that room my first test began. On the laptop I went through a series of mental tests ranging form memory to response time.

Later I moved into the examining room for weight and height measurements. For some reason I measured only 6’2.5. That last time, which was several years ago I measured 6’4.” My weight was 257lb, and the body fat tests revealed 20% body fat – higher than I expected. I was given a strength test and flexibility test. I did well on both. Then my blood pressure was taken and I was given an EKG. It was 119/65 with a resting pulse rate of 60. My EKG showed no abnormalities. They served me a wonderful lunch followed by a video explaining insulin levels and degenerative disease before my consultation and final exam with the doctor.

Dr Willix was cardiovascular doctor and thoracic surgeon. He gave up a lucrative practice years ago to pursue preventative medicine. He studied Ayurvedic medicine and is also a shaman. His decision was not popular in the medical community at that time. He also competed regularly in Iron Man events. At 66 he is in remarkable condition. His exam was thorough, and included eye, reflexes, hernia and rectal. He also examined my tongue which surprised me. Since I was young I’ve had a pronounced geographic tongue. He explained that it was due to poor intestinal exorbtion, and probably a cause of demineralization in my spine and hips – nothing severe, but slightly in the high range for my age. I found it hard to believe, so he pulled out an Ayurvedic chart that showed my aberration. He prescribed probiotics and yogurt, and I was told to avoid sodas because they rob bones of calcium.

My blood panels, which were extensive (I gave 6 vials of blood after a 12 hour fast) looked very good. My glucose panel showed no sign of impending diabetes. My thyroid levels were good. Kidney and liver functions were very good. My HDL was a little low. My test levels had crashed as expected and my estradiol was very low.

Prior to my visit, I listed all of the supplements I take along with diet and workout logs (both weights and cardio). The doctor explained that Niacin can lower both good and bad cholesterols and suggested I take 1200 mgs of red rice yeast at bedtime instead. He prescribed 75 mgs of DHEA to be taken in the morning and 5000 IUs of HCG twice a week for the next eight weeks. He will follow up with a blood test to see how I respond and then set my maintenance dosage. Based on my panels and exam he thinks I will respond well. He is keeping me on 7.5 IUs of HGH per week. My current IGF level is 300. He told me to keep taking the rest of my supplements and not change dosage with the exception of EFAs. He wants me to make sure my omegas have EPA of 2- 3 grams. As an Ayurvedic doctor, he was impressed with the USPLab supplements I have been taking. I was glad because they make me feel pretty good and I don't want to give them up. I promised myself and the doctor to give this at least six months. Although I’m somewhat skeptical (as usual) I want to give it a fair chance.

He put me on a low GI diet and revised my workout plan. I will be doing cardio 5 days per week. My heart rate will have to be between 140 and 150 beats per minute for at least 20 minutes during each session. No overall duration was mentioned. He wants me to hit only one body part per week. There will be 7 sets per exercise with a pyramiding rep range between 6 and 12 reps. Rests between sets will only be for one minute. He wants me to maintain this workout until I reach a target weight of 220lbs. Later I will be able to resume lower reps with longer rests for strength.

I’m sure that I left out quite a bit. The doctor will be monitoring my progress, and I will post updates and answer any questions.
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living2die said:
colonel kurtz,
with a resting heart rate of 60bpm, you must be really fit. do you do lots of cardio ?
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I do three 30 minute cardio sessions per week, and play three hours (one hour on three different days) of hard tennis against good players who are much younger than me. Tennis will make your heart beat right through your chest if you're any good. I did my first pro tour in '75.
 
Very interesting information. We are going to see a doctor in Northern CA for HRT, but it is incredibly expensive. The tests for women cost a bit more than men -- it was 1002.00 per person for lab work and initial consultations. The charge for the 6 month contract for oversight plus the first 5 weeks of medications was about $1950 per person. We are getting GH, hormone creams, pills (Pregnenolone, DHEA, thyroid and adrenal support). I'm not sure how this compares to other plans, but it is pretty expensive for us. Almost 3000.00 each. Does that seem reasonable?
 
colkurtz_spf said:
My Hypothalmus does not produce an adequate level of LH for my testosterone production. My baseline is 3.9. For some that may be enough, but not for me. I'm not sure that brain surgery is the answer. My deficiency could be due to aging or environmental factors. I didn't have this problem when I was younger, and in any case my therapy is working.
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My LH is 1.9 and FSH is like only .9, but somehow I'm sill able to produce midrange TT and FT levels which I think would be an anomaly. I'm still trying to figure this one out. My main problem is lack of libido and adrenal issues. I have tried HCG which I respond well to, but still no libido. Just wondering if my low LH & FSH is still a problem, despite ok test levels.
 
kalyson said:
Very interesting information. We are going to see a doctor in Northern CA for HRT, but it is incredibly expensive. The tests for women cost a bit more than men -- it was 1002.00 per person for lab work and initial consultations. The charge for the 6 month contract for oversight plus the first 5 weeks of medications was about $1950 per person. We are getting GH, hormone creams, pills (Pregnenolone, DHEA, thyroid and adrenal support). I'm not sure how this compares to other plans, but it is pretty expensive for us. Almost 3000.00 each. Does that seem reasonable?
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The initial blood work and consultation seems reasonable, but the six month fees seem high. I paid 1350 per period.
 
health4life24 said:
My LH is 1.9 and FSH is like only .9, but somehow I'm sill able to produce midrange TT and FT levels which I think would be an anomaly. I'm still trying to figure this one out. My main problem is lack of libido and adrenal issues. I have tried HCG which I respond well to, but still no libido. Just wondering if my low LH & FSH is still a problem, despite ok test levels.
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What were you numbers before and after HCG, and how long were you on for?
 
colkurtz_spf said:
What were you numbers before and after HCG, and how long were you on for?
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Those were my numbers before HCG. I don't know what they were after because I didn't do a test. Just went by how I felt. Was able to work out again and had huge boost in energy. I felt I responded well, but still had libido issues. I did do a Rheins after 10 days of stopping HCG if that counts for anything. TT was near top of range.
 
colkurtz_spf said:
The initial blood work and consultation seems reasonable, but the six month fees seem high. I paid 1350 per period.
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So that included all your meds, too? The oversight fee for 6 mos was 1250 for one but 1000 for the second person in a couple. The difference was the meds for 5 weeks (for each person).
 
health4life24 said:
Those were my numbers before HCG. I don't know what they were after because I didn't do a test. Just went by how I felt. Was able to work out again and had huge boost in energy. I felt I responded well, but still had libido issues. I did do a Rheins after 10 days of stopping HCG if that counts for anything. TT was near top of range.
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It would be hard to comment without knowing how much you injected and the frequency. Also labs are important. HCG can increase E2 which would diminish your desire for sex.
 
kalyson said:
How long did it take to notice a difference on HGH? We are setting the pen to .2
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.2 isn't very much at all, but I'm sure your doctor has his reasons.

I noticed results in 30 days, and my condition improved over time. The most dramatic changes came in 6 months. The results stay with you for quite some time after you stop using it. Even though my doctor recommends daily injections I take 2 days off per week and one month off every six.
 
colkurtz_spf said:
It would be hard to comment without knowing how much you injected and the frequency. Also labs are important. HCG can increase E2 which would diminish your desire for sex.
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Total estrogens were near top of range. I have used an AI many times before though. Did nothing for libido. Just gave me more energy and clarity of mind. The HCG I used was a homeopathic oral version. Put some drops under tounge, felt it kicking in and working very well after about 10 minutes. I have no idea the amount of IU's it would equate to. I have used injectable to, but prefer the oral because it's easier to deal with and can also have it on me if need be.

Here are my results if you want to take a look from a Rheins test.
 
health4life24 said:
Total estrogens were near top of range. I have used an AI many times before though. Did nothing for libido. Just gave me more energy and clarity of mind. The HCG I used was a homeopathic oral version. Put some drops under tounge, felt it kicking in and working very well after about 10 minutes. I have no idea the amount of IU's it would equate to. I have used injectable to, but prefer the oral because it's easier to deal with and can also have it on me if need be.

Here are my results if you want to take a look from a Rheins test.
Click to expand...

I'm not familiar with oral HCG. I'm talking to a lab that has developed lipid encapsulation for hormones. The medicine dissolves in the lower intestines bypassing the liver. To date they have used it for estrogen, low dose testosterone and oxytocin for women. They are waiting for materials to make a test run on HCG, and I'll be the lab rabbit. I plan to post the results here. I've been told this will also work with testosterone.
 
beckerj said:
Thanks man ....

I am gonna put out a general question ....

How do we overcome the performance anxiety that we have when we start to get better ?

I get so nervous when my other half wants to get busy .... Now if i am the one that is chasing it i am not so nervous ....
Click to expand...

I had the exact same issue. My doc suggested a tiny bit of Xanax prior to the event and it made all the difference in the world
 
fascinating stuff colonel kurtz. i think i speak for everyone when i encourage you too start up a new thread, when you begin the therapy, posting your results, as well as the lab work which verifies the positive and negatives of the oral encapsulated hcg route.

also, it seems like the medical community has is updating their hcg protocols for secondary hypogondism. according to this merck readout, as low as just over 700 IU are recommended as standard doses for secondary hypo's.
Invalid Link Removed

colkurtz_spf said:
I'm not familiar with oral HCG. I'm talking to a lab that has developed lipid encapsulation for hormones. The medicine dissolves in the lower intestines bypassing the liver. To date they have used it for estrogen, low dose testosterone and oxytocin for women. They are waiting for materials to make a test run on HCG, and I'll be the lab rabbit. I plan to post the results here. I've been told this will also work with testosterone.
Click to expand...
 
living2die said:
fascinating stuff colonel kurtz. i think i speak for everyone when i encourage you too start up a new thread, when you begin the therapy, posting your results, as well as the lab work which verifies the positive and negatives of the oral encapsulated hcg route.

also, it seems like the medical community has is updating their hcg protocols for secondary hypogondism. according to this merck readout, as low as just over 700 IU are recommended as standard doses for secondary hypo's.
Invalid Link Removed
Click to expand...

I plan to include liver values in the blood work to determine if indeed the liver is bypassed. It's not practical to suggest a standard dose for secondary hypogonadism as everyone is different.
 
Last edited:
I know you have probably said this before, but what is your weekly dose of HCG at?

Are you still using +/- 2000 IU EW?
What is your e2 at?
What is your PROG at?
Are you also using PREG TD and/or DHEA oral/TD ?
Are you using arimidex?

Respekt.

colkurtz_spf said:
I plan to include liver values in the blood work to determine if indeed the liver is bypassed. It's not practical to suggest a standard dose for secondary hypogonadism as everyone is different.
Click to expand...
 
colkurtz this will be an awesome experiment. If hcg can be delivered orally, I'll probably jump back on the bandwagon quickly. Having to stick myself a couple of times per week is a major buzz kill. My numbers were pretty darn good at 250iu EOD. Please keep us updated and a new thread would be nice!
 
living2die said:
I know you have probably said this before, but what is your weekly dose of HCG at?

Are you still using +/- 2000 IU EW?
What is your e2 at?
What is your PROG at?
Are you also using PREG TD and/or DHEA oral/TD ?
Are you using arimidex?

Respekt.
Click to expand...

Right now I'm doing 1500IUs E3D with .5 mg of Arimidex. Each morning I take 75 mg of DHEA. That is my usual protocol. I had been on 1000 E3D and these were the results:

TT 948
FT 197.4
BT 405.9
E2 24
DHT 78
DHEA 374

My testosterone levels were lower at that dose and I felt the difference. I didn't test progesterone, but my range has always been good.
 
thenxtgrt1 said:
colkurtz this will be an awesome experiment. If hcg can be delivered orally, I'll probably jump back on the bandwagon quickly. Having to stick myself a couple of times per week is a major buzz kill. My numbers were pretty darn good at 250iu EOD. Please keep us updated and a new thread would be nice!
Click to expand...

I'm still waiting for the pharmacy to get the materials...keep your fingers crossed. They say the same can be done with testosterone. From what I understand they make a low dose version for women. They have no requests for a male version so none has been produced. These people don't realize the potential demand.
 
colkurtz,
have you ever considered using PREG TD ? thematrix/hardasnails1973 advocates strongly for its use, especially for people like us are on hcg mono. hardasnails/thematrix thinks that PREG levels become depleted after chronic hcg usage. in my case, when i started using PREG TD, (i have used OTC LIFE FLO PREG as well as raw PREG powder administered in DMSO vehicle) i felt loads better than when i was on hcg alone. i feel so much better that i still feel just as good on 300-500 IU HCG EOD as I did on 500IU ED. also, i have much more energy.
try a simple experiment and see for yourself.
purchase some over the counter LIFE FLO brand PREG TD. use 2-3 pumps (total 30-45mg PREG). for me, i could feel the effects within 30 minutes.

colkurtz_spf said:
Right now I'm doing 1500IUs E3D with .5 mg of Arimidex. Each morning I take 75 mg of DHEA. That is my usual protocol. I had been on 1000 E3D and these were the results:

TT 948
FT 197.4
BT 405.9
E2 24
DHT 78
DHEA 374

My testosterone levels were lower at that dose and I felt the difference. I didn't test progesterone, but my range has always been good.
Click to expand...
 
also, using jansz's PREG/DHEA theory, you likely are in the normal/high-normal range of PREG. from jansz's experience, when his DHEA is high, his PREG is high. when his DHEA is low, his PREG is low. for you, PREG TD might not have as profound of an impact.

RESPEKT


colkurtz_spf said:
Right now I'm doing 1500IUs E3D with .5 mg of Arimidex. Each morning I take 75 mg of DHEA. That is my usual protocol. I had been on 1000 E3D and these were the results:

TT 948
FT 197.4
BT 405.9
E2 24
DHT 78
DHEA 374

My testosterone levels were lower at that dose and I felt the difference. I didn't test progesterone, but my range has always been good.
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living2die said:
colkurtz,
have you ever considered using PREG TD ? thematrix/hardasnails1973 advocates strongly for its use, especially for people like us are on hcg mono. hardasnails/thematrix thinks that PREG levels become depleted after chronic hcg usage. in my case, when i started using PREG TD, (i have used OTC LIFE FLO PREG as well as raw PREG powder administered in DMSO vehicle) i felt loads better than when i was on hcg alone. i feel so much better that i still feel just as good on 300-500 IU HCG EOD as I did on 500IU ED. also, i have much more energy.
try a simple experiment and see for yourself.
purchase some over the counter LIFE FLO brand PREG TD. use 2-3 pumps (total 30-45mg PREG). for me, i could feel the effects within 30 minutes.
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Thanks for the advice. I may try it in the future. I've also tried EOD shots of HCG but that didn't work well for me. My E2 went way up. I do better with less frequency. I like the HCG dose I'm now, and will post the results after I draw. I can't imagine feeling any better than I do now. I wish I felt this good in my 30s.
 
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