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Muscle preservation supps on a cut

dpk33

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So far, I'm taking EC 2x a day with 50mg forskolin per dose. I'm looking for one or two things that will aid in preserving muscle on a cut. So far I've looked into HICA, BCAAs, and Leucine. Are there any other things? Which ones would be best on a cut?
 
dpk33 said:
So far, I'm taking EC 2x a day with 50mg forskolin per dose. I'm looking for one or two things that will aid in preserving muscle on a cut. So far I've looked into HICA, BCAAs, and Leucine. Are there any other things? Which ones would be best on a cut?
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EC and forskolin are already aiding in muscle preservation. So nothing more really would be needed IMO but if you wanted to add anything, I would add HICA.
 
Natural anabolic supps are always good to preserve muscle when on a cut in my opinion.
 
Feiwong said:
What part of a so simple advice do you miss?
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BCAA aren't needed in the pre or post setting if getting in adequate food and protein intake. Also, no additional BCAA or leucine is needed at a meal if adequate protein is being taken in allowing for MPS.
 
kbayne said:
BCAA aren't needed in the pre or post setting if getting in adequate food and protein intake. Also, no additional BCAA or leucine is needed at a meal if adequate protein is being taken in allowing for MPS.
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Regards bcaa I said pre/intra and not pre/post. Then do you knows his diet in details? Maybe he's in IF or train in a fasted state or is in keto diet......in my opinion bcaa in great quantity is very anticatabolic in a cut.
Then I said leucine (not bcaa) at meals with no carbs to enhance protein synthesis without the release of insulin
 
Feiwong said:
Regards bcaa I said pre/intra and not pre/post. Then do you knows his diet in details? Maybe he's in IF or train in a fasted state or is in keto diet......in my opinion bcaa in great quantity is very anticatabolic in a cut.
Then I said leucine (not bcaa) at meals with no carbs to enhance protein synthesis without the release of insulin
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Pre/intra or post, doesn't matter. Also wouldn't matter if he is training fasted or in a ketogenic diet if he is getting in adequate amount of protein per day.

Again, leucine isn't necessary at a meal with no carbs to enhance protein synthesis as I would imagine he is taking in protein from whole foods (but yes leucine would be helpful if he isn't getting in adequate protein amounts at each meal). And release of insulin? Both fats and protein cause a spike in insulin. So that point is irrelevant.

I'm not disagreeing that BCAA aren't helpful in a cut either.
 
I was reading some info recently that FA-HMB could be of benefit to prevent catabolism while cutting and in a caloric deficit. I believe even Adel made a comment to this point on his site.

Anybody else have any thought on this?
 
FireRescue said:
I was reading some info recently that FA-HMB could be of benefit to prevent catabolism while cutting and in a caloric deficit. I believe even Adel made a comment to this point on his site.

Anybody else have any thought on this?
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Haven't ran HMB, but there is data supporting it while in a caloric deficit.
 
kbayne said:
Pre/intra or post, doesn't matter. Also wouldn't matter if he is training fasted or in a ketogenic diet if he is getting in adequate amount of protein per day.

Again, leucine isn't necessary at a meal with no carbs to enhance protein synthesis as I would imagine he is taking in protein from whole foods (but yes leucine would be helpful if he isn't getting in adequate protein amounts at each meal). And release of insulin? Both fats and protein cause a spike in insulin. So that point is irrelevant.

I'm not disagreeing that BCAA aren't helpful in a cut either.
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Bcaa postwo is pointless if a protein shaker is taken, but pre/intra is a must if training in a fasted state especially in cut. Then in a meal with no carb, also an adeguate quantity of protein from food will retard the MPS. We need to digest food and takes a while. It's different if protein are from whey or any other fast ones. And the spike of insulin from fats and protein from food is very very low compared to carbo.
 
Feiwong said:
Bcaa postwo is pointless if a protein shaker is taken, but pre/intra is a must if training in a fasted state especially in cut. Then in a meal with no carb, also an adeguate quantity of protein from food will retard the MPS. We need to digest food and takes a while. It's different if protein are from whey or any other fast ones. And the spike of insulin from fats and protein from food is very very low compared to carbo.
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If you think so lol.
 
dpk33 said:
So far, I'm taking EC 2x a day with 50mg forskolin per dose. I'm looking for one or two things that will aid in preserving muscle on a cut. So far I've looked into HICA, BCAAs, and Leucine. Are there any other things? Which ones would be best on a cut?
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As other have said, HICA and BCAA/EAA if you are having a difficult time getting the protein you require while cutting. Forskolin can help as well. Cortsiol could be elevated while cutting so trying to keep that at a normal level would help as well. AlphaMax helps with cortisol control and also contains F95. If you're looking to add a natural anabolic, AlphaMax would be worth the look.
 
Feiwong said:
Bcaa postwo is pointless if a protein shaker is taken, but pre/intra is a must if training in a fasted state especially in cut. Then in a meal with no carb, also an adeguate quantity of protein from food will retard the MPS. We need to digest food and takes a while. It's different if protein are from whey or any other fast ones. And the spike of insulin from fats and protein from food is very very low compared to carbo.
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Why limit insulin?

If someone is asking for supps to increase muscle preservation, telling them to cut out an entire food group isn't reeeeally simple advice ;)
 
i would say maintaining lifts, and training volume is what will help "preserve" muslce during a deficit. alongside trying to maximize protein synthesis. usually 3-4 meals with enough protein for your needs, hitting your target by the end of the day. Amino IV and Ergonine both have Hica which helps also.
 
Auslifter said:
i would say maintaining lifts, and training volume is what will help "preserve" muslce during a deficit. alongside trying to maximize protein synthesis. usually 3-4 meals with enough protein for your needs, hitting your target by the end of the day. Amino IV and Ergonine both have Hica which helps also.
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Was gonna come in to say something along these lines. Focus on supplementing to ensure good workouts. Stimulants and endurance ingredients are gonna be a whole lot more relevant to maintaining muscle then some BCAA's intra workout :)
 
Captn_the said:
Is a natural anabolic supp another name for a test booster?
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No, it is not. Test Boosters primarily raise Testosterone and don't do much for additional muscle mass.

Natural Anabolics, promote anabolism, essentially they help add lean muscle mass.
 
vujade said:
No, it is not. Test Boosters primarily raise Testosterone and don't do much for additional muscle mass.

Natural Anabolics, promote anabolism, essentially they help add lean muscle mass.
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Both sound like marketing bullsh1t for n00bs :coffee:
 
vujade said:
No, it is not. Test Boosters primarily raise Testosterone and don't do much for additional muscle mass.

Natural Anabolics, promote anabolism, essentially they help add lean muscle mass.
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Here's a good BioLayne episode to further support this:

Invalid Link Removed
 
I love hica!! can tell a difference!!


Sorry i haven't been on guys just moved!!
 
Captn_the said:
Both sound like marketing bullsh1t for n00bs :coffee:
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you may say that, but some supplements actually work. The problem with the industry is that too many
companies are just in it for the money and care nothing about the consumer. So they take a supplement
that has legitimate science and research behind it and damage its reputation by underdosing it, using
a cheaper extract or not even putting the ingredient in it.
 
vujade said:
you may say that, but some supplements actually work. The problem with the industry is that too many
companies are just in it for the money and care nothing about the consumer. So they take a supplement
that has legitimate science and research behind it and damage its reputation by underdosing it, using
a cheaper extract or not even putting the ingredient in it.
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this. there's allot of garbage out there, however there's plenty of soild things that do work and can optimize your progress.
 
Auslifter said:
this. there's allot of garbage out there, however there's plenty of soild things that do work and can optimize your progress.
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vujade said:
you may say that, but some supplements actually work. The problem with the industry is that too many
companies are just in it for the money and care nothing about the consumer. So they take a supplement
that has legitimate science and research behind it and damage its reputation by underdosing it, using
a cheaper extract or not even putting the ingredient in it.
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Sadly, this is true. Many get screwed over so many times by "trusted" brands.
 
Auslifter said:
i would say maintaining lifts, and training volume is what will help "preserve" muslce during a deficit. alongside trying to maximize protein synthesis. usually 3-4 meals with enough protein for your needs, hitting your target by the end of the day. Amino IV and Ergonine both have Hica which helps also.
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how would one maintain their lifts as best as possible during a cut? i assume you mean keeping the same strength and volume in your training (e.g. benching or squatting the same weight). i tend to lose strength on a cut
 
dpk33 said:
how would one maintain their lifts as best as possible during a cut? i assume you mean keeping the same strength and volume in your training (e.g. benching or squatting the same weight). i tend to lose strength on a cut
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Utilize carbs in the peri-workout window and don't cut calories/carbs too quickly.
 
Jiigzz said:
Why limit insulin?

If someone is asking for supps to increase muscle preservation, telling them to cut out an entire food group isn't reeeeally simple advice ;)
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I never said to limit insulin. You don't really get what I'm sayng but it's fine :)
 
X gels always help me maintain muscle mass on cuts. I love X gels+an AI (usually use erase or inhibit e) for cutting to maintain muscle and dry out.
 
dpk33 said:
how would one maintain their lifts as best as possible during a cut? i assume you mean keeping the same strength and volume in your training (e.g. benching or squatting the same weight). i tend to lose strength on a cut
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You will always loose strength on a cut. Even taking gears. Nutrient timing goes so far to help.
 
I came across a product that I found interesting: ProSupps Leucine Matrix. Granted Calcium HMB was not found to have as good of uptake as HMB-FA and the HICA dosing is a little low as compared to the study but with the three ingredients it seems this could be worthy product to help preserve muscle while in a deficit.
 
This is probably a bad answer because it's not a supplement, but I'm surprised more people don't use low-dose ostarine on a cut. Even 5mg a day would probably be very beneficial while not being terribly suppressive.
 
roy_jones said:
This is probably a bad answer because it's not a supplement, but I'm surprised more people don't use low-dose ostarine on a cut. Even 5mg a day would probably be very beneficial while not being terribly suppressive.
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Because this is the supp section and ostarine isnt really your normal supplement. It's under anabolics/sarm. But yes ostarine on a cut is amazing. My muscles felt full this whole time. I barely had flat days.
 
goodvibes said:
Because this is the supp section and ostarine isnt really your normal supplement. It's under anabolics/sarm. But yes ostarine on a cut is amazing. My muscles felt full this whole time. I barely had flat days.
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PA from SL has me feeling full all day, every day while in a deficit. Only using 2 tbsp about 2-3 hours preworkout and 1 post right now. 2 in the morning on off days.
 
As was stated, you've got a good stack for that to begin with.

If you're not using creatine, do that.

MyoSynergy has HICA in it and that + Strafe is a solid combo (and if I were picking just one, I'd opt for the Myo).
 
If you're considering while supplements and not 1-2 ingredients as I thought initially here, Ergonine hands down

1.5g HICA
Creatine anhydrous
Betaine Anhydrous
Ferulic acid

And 5 extra goodies
All 9 at studied doses and packaged together fir under $1/day

Damn hard value to beat
 
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