Most Detailed Epistane Log -SH*T JUST GOT REAL!

LIVER TEST RESULTS


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Well, I'm going to have to do some more reading/researching and then make my decision.

It's between going one more week to finish up one complete bottle of ep-stane, or call it quits after today to save my liver for the damage Nolvadex is going to do to it. In the mean time, if anyone has anything to chime in, please do.

I'ma go do some more reading....








I expect my liver values to be elevated due to using a methylated compound. I also have seen other peoples levels much higher and they seem to have turned out fine. As far as the elevation combined with a swollen gland, it's got my attention more so. If I do have to end the cycle I won't be one to complain. I've made some pretty sweet a*s gains in these 3 weeks off epistane. More then I thought I would. I thought I was going to have to run this for 8 weeks to be 'happy' so to speak. Looks like if anything, I'll have the second bottle saved for next cycle.
 
epstaneman said:
LIVER TEST RESULTS

<img src="http://anabolicminds.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=66409"/>

Well, I'm going to have to do some more reading/researching and then make my decision.

It's between going one more week to finish up one complete bottle of ep-stane, or call it quits after today to save my liver for the damage Nolvadex is going to do to it. In the mean time, if anyone has anything to chime in, please do.

I'ma go do some more reading....

I expect my liver values to be elevated due to using a methylated compound. I also have seen other peoples levels much higher and they seem to have turned out fine. As far as the elevation combined with a swollen gland, it's got my attention more so. If I do have to end the cycle I won't be one to complain. I've made some pretty sweet a*s gains in these 3 weeks off epistane. More then I thought I would. I thought I was going to have to run this for 8 weeks to be 'happy' so to speak. Looks like if anything, I'll have the second bottle saved for next cycle.
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Think me personally I would back off.
 
How bad are you to your liver off cycle if you don't my asking, also do you think pre loading with milk thistle would've helped or did you do that? Im bummed for you bro but I'm glad you have enjoyed it this far
 
cokeholio said:
How bad are you to your liver off cycle if you don't my asking, also do you think pre loading with milk thistle would've helped or did you do that? Im bummed for you bro but I'm glad you have enjoyed it this far
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My pre-cycle numbers can be viewed in my pre-cycle blood work in the first post of this thread. The elevated values don't show the extent of the damage to the liver, so it can be little or more. Who knows. What it does tell me compared to other peoples blood work, is that mine got elevated pretty fast considering the bloods I've seen are from SD and not Epistane. The fact my nodes/gland is swollen lets me know my body is also reacting as if it's under attack and fighting off something. These two things combined, and me knowing that I am taking a methylated compound, lead me to believe it is specifically the PH causing the stress.

Long story short. Cycle is over. Keeping off the Nolvadex till Monday where I will get another blood test to see if I have any acute self induced hepatitis C. If I do, then Nolvadex may not be best to take regarding Juandice. In the mean time, stools, urine, eyes, skin is all good so I know jaundice is not the case. However, I do not want to continue damaging my liver to the point it reaches the worst circumstance. In the mean time, it's just a waiting game for Mondays blood work. That will be the final tally as to any type of negative effects.


I didn't think I'd get any great results with Epistane in such a short time. It's why I purchased two bottles and even planned to go up to 8 weeks! Well, my gains are pretty sweet. I'm happy with them so as long as my liver isn't screwed up, I'd call this cycle a success. In the mean time, It's lots of water and milk thistle till Monday. Going to go train shoulders and throw in CHEST just one last time while it's in my system. My chest is one of my lagging body parts.


I did not pre-load milk thistle but that is not the reason why I got elevated liver enzymes. Pre-loading milk thistle doesn't really do much unless your liver was already under stress. And if it does do something, it is not going to 'protect' you from liver stress. Anything is better then nothing, but when it comes to side effects such as liver toxicity, hair loss, gyno, acne, and so forth.....it's pretty much if your prone to it, you'll get it. No other way around it. Course you don't really know what your prone too till you start cycling.
 
First off, sorry to hear about this man. I know that you were enjoying it.

Secondly, Dr. Plunk? That's a pretty sweet name.

...and finally, here is an excerpt from Livestrong containing a few things that may help mitigate the elevated levels (they are pretty straight forward, but whatever):
  • Take diuretics as prescribed by your physician. Diuretics remove excess fluid from the body. Your physician might prescribe antibiotics if you have cirrhosis or a liver problem caused by an infection.
  • Stop drinking alcohol immediately. Alcohol use can cause liver diseases, like cirrhosis and alcoholic hepatitis. Do not drink alcohol after you have recovered.
  • Eat a special diet. A low-protein diet will reduce the risk of toxins building up in the body due to the liver's inability to process protein correctly. You should eat a high-carbohydrate diet. Avoid salt, as sodium causes swelling and fluid build-up in the liver. Your doctor might suggest vitamins and supplements to make up for those lost by liver dysfunction. Avoid eating shellfish if you have cirrhosis of the liver, as shellfish can contain bacterium that can cause serious infection.

Hopefully the test was just done so closely to you hitting the gym that everything was still elevated from the workout. In either case, good luck man. Keep us posted.
 
loafy777 said:
First off, sorry to hear about this man. I know that you were enjoying it.

Secondly, Dr. Plunk? That's a pretty sweet name.

...and finally, here is an excerpt from Livestrong containing a few things that may help mitigate the elevated levels (they are pretty straight forward, but whatever):

[*]Take diuretics as prescribed by your physician. Diuretics remove excess fluid from the body. Your physician might prescribe antibiotics if you have cirrhosis or a liver problem caused by an infection.
[*]Stop drinking alcohol immediately. Alcohol use can cause liver diseases, like cirrhosis and alcoholic hepatitis. Do not drink alcohol after you have recovered.
[*]Eat a special diet. A low-protein diet will reduce the risk of toxins building up in the body due to the liver's inability to process protein correctly. You should eat a high-carbohydrate diet. Avoid salt, as sodium causes swelling and fluid build-up in the liver. Your doctor might suggest vitamins and supplements to make up for those lost by liver dysfunction. Avoid eating shellfish if you have cirrhosis of the liver, as shellfish can contain bacterium that can cause serious infection.


Hopefully the test was just done so closely to you hitting the gym that everything was still elevated from the workout. In either case, good luck man. Keep us posted.
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Good info right there
 
loafy777 said:
First off, sorry to hear about this man. I know that you were enjoying it.

Secondly, Dr. Plunk? That's a pretty sweet name.

...and finally, here is an excerpt from Livestrong containing a few things that may help mitigate the elevated levels (they are pretty straight forward, but whatever):
  • Take diuretics as prescribed by your physician. Diuretics remove excess fluid from the body. Your physician might prescribe antibiotics if you have cirrhosis or a liver problem caused by an infection.
  • Stop drinking alcohol immediately. Alcohol use can cause liver diseases, like cirrhosis and alcoholic hepatitis. Do not drink alcohol after you have recovered.
  • Eat a special diet. A low-protein diet will reduce the risk of toxins building up in the body due to the liver's inability to process protein correctly. You should eat a high-carbohydrate diet. Avoid salt, as sodium causes swelling and fluid build-up in the liver. Your doctor might suggest vitamins and supplements to make up for those lost by liver dysfunction. Avoid eating shellfish if you have cirrhosis of the liver, as shellfish can contain bacterium that can cause serious infection.

Hopefully the test was just done so closely to you hitting the gym that everything was still elevated from the workout. In either case, good luck man. Keep us posted.
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Ya....there's too many contributing factors that come into play regarding the elevated liver enzymes. Though the ALT should not be elevated so much from training, protein intake and other factors. Only my next blood test will tell the true damage so to speak. Either the case...I love the gains I've gotten. If anything....I'm shocked I got such great gains in such little time.


As far as your post from livestrong....I don't drink on cycle or after...but thanks for the excerpt. I'll just see whatsup. I feel a lil sad that my body probably can't even hack methylated compounds. Many may say 'there's always next cycle to make more gains,' but if my body can't take the stress, there will be no more cycles in my future. At least methylated cycles.....
 
Damn dude, well hopefully it's nothing serious bro stay positive. Keep us posted. Hope you keep this log going through pct, although I'm sure you will.
 
Man I'm sorry to hear that. Thats a real tough decision. Maybe lower the dosage a little, tweak your diet to a very liver friendly one and go get another test next week? This has defintely prompted myself to go get my levels checked out.
 
Dang sorry to hear about your levels being high. Im thinking of following your same guide but i will be adding tudca hopefully it does what they say it clames it does. I can see a pretty big difference in the pictures. Hope all turns out good

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2
 
STLJones said:
Man I'm sorry to hear that. Thats a real tough decision. Maybe lower the dosage a little, tweak your diet to a very liver friendly one and go get another test next week? This has defintely prompted myself to go get my levels checked out.
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It's safe to just STOP the cycle and save my liver for the beating its going to take from Nolvadex. These research chems are HARSH on the liver. Last time I did bloods and found the research chem did more damage then the PH I was running.


Either the case...it's time to call it over, be happy for the gains I did have, and keep in mind I can always continue to make more progress on a future cycle.
 
DAY 20:



FU*K I'M PISSED!!!!


My front delts kept me from having a workout today. I was going to do shoulders and add chest in since It's lagging. Sort of take advantage of the Epistane while it's still in my system. Guess I went TOO hard on arm day with the close grip bench press. My delts feel like a major league pitcher threw a base ball at it. So I basically walked in the gym, trained like a bit*h, then walked out like a waste of flesh taking up good gym equipment.

My training partner today took FOREVER...which caused me to miss out on my tanning and hair cut today. Really wouldn't be a big deal but my gal want's to go meet an old girl friend tonight and well...I like looking my best. Especially since its some chick she hasn't seen in a while and probably won't see again for a good while. And of course, I can't continue my cycle and get more beast.


Any fu*king way.....I have to take off from the gym till my pus*y a*s delts fully recover. I swear I wanted to rip some SH*I up but my body wouldn't let me.


Well....I'll have some new pics up of my progress. Really only been 6 days since my last progress pics but since the cycle is coming to a close, I'll post pics up of how I look with my 3 weeks on Epistane. I'll also continue to log during pct providing all my blood work for others to follow. My pct updates will be weekly rather then daily. Won't be much of anything going on like on cycle, so I won't be posting as much.

You'll find me talking loads of sh*t in other threads, and probably being put in my place by keyboard warriors. So you'll can always look forward to that.
 
Very interesting stuff man, thanks for the great log. I was actually running about the same thing (LGI epi instead up to 40mg). I ended up 'bailing' on Epi at week three as well due to GI issues. I believe it was something to due with the bonded sulfur in epi (possibly minor intolerance/allergy). Finishing up week 4 myself (Bridged to Dimethazine at week 3) and will have bloods done for the change.

In comparsion my AST=22 ALT=22 pre-cycle. Still making all kindz of gainz, here.
Good luck in PCT!
 
lumipz said:
Very interesting stuff man, thanks for the great log. I was actually running about the same thing (LGI epi instead up to 40mg). I ended up 'bailing' on Epi at week three as well due to GI issues. I believe it was something to due with the bonded sulfur in epi (possibly minor intolerance/allergy). Finishing up week 4 myself (Bridged to Dimethazine at week 3) and will have bloods done for the change.

In comparsion my AST=22 ALT=22 pre-cycle. Still making all kindz of gainz, here.
Good luck in PCT!
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Stupid sulfur.
 
epstaneman said:
Stupid sulfur.
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This whole thing has thrown up a red flag for me. I remember having a severe allergic reaction to "sulfa-antibiotics" and was out of work for a couple days. After thinking about this, I thought well $hit I hope since Epi is a sulfur compound that I'm not allergic to this. It appears that there IS a difference though in NON antibiotic sulfa compared to prescribed antibiotics. I think I will be fine. Question though: did you experience any sort of skin rash at any time? And yes you might want to check for the self-induced Hepatitis because it shows that sulfa may cause liver failure and Hep. Here's two of the links I've been reading:

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Red9 said:
This whole thing has thrown up a red flag for me. I remember having a severe allergic reaction to "sulfa-antibiotics" and was out of work for a couple days. After thinking about this, I thought well $hit I hope since Epi is a sulfur compound that I'm not allergic to this. It appears that there IS a difference though in NON antibiotic sulfa compared to prescribed antibiotics. I think I will be fine. Question though: did you experience any sort of skin rash at any time? And yes you might want to check for the self-induced Hepatitis because it shows that sulfa may cause liver failure and Hep. Here's two of the links I've been reading:

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You could still run the Epistane anyway. Just make the most of your cycle by training hard, smart, and eating loads of food. This way in case you have to stop the cycle, you'll make some pretty decent gains while on.


If you don't have signs like pale stools, dark urine, yellow skin/eyes, then your liver isn't damaged to a state of jaundice. However my HEP-C test I'm getting will help me know for sure how damaged it is. This will help sway my judgement on my Nolvadex dosing, as Nolvadex plays a toll on the liver too.


Try a different liver supplement then just milk thistle. Which most supports include. Try a superior alternative. I should of used Live.52 which I know is awesome. Just didn't get it this cycle. Figured the AI life support and milk thistle would be enough. Definitly recommend live.52, drinking plenty of water, and make the most of your cycle every day in case you do experience any sides due to the sulfur.



I didn't get any rash's or anything of that nature. What I got was a swollen node/gland. On my left side under my ear. Painful only to the touch. This means my body is reacting to some type of infection. Could be something even as little as flue or a allergy infection. The one thing it can be at worst is liver damage to a bad degree. So in this respect it's the one I did bloods concerning. The fact it's methyl or the sulfar....either way my liver was getting stressed too much.
 
I had ordered Liv.52 as part of my stack, so hopefully that does the trick as you indicate. I'll definitely have a log going and after reading yours, it sounds like I'll be including blood work more often then planned.
 
epstaneman said:
You could still run the Epistane anyway. Just make the most of your cycle by training hard, smart, and eating loads of food. This way in case you have to stop the cycle, you'll make some pretty decent gains while on.


If you don't have signs like pale stools, dark urine, yellow skin/eyes, then your liver isn't damaged to a state of jaundice. However my HEP-C test I'm getting will help me know for sure how damaged it is. This will help sway my judgement on my Nolvadex dosing, as Nolvadex plays a toll on the liver too.


Try a different liver supplement then just milk thistle. Which most supports include. Try a superior alternative. I should of used Live.52 which I know is awesome. Just didn't get it this cycle. Figured the AI life support and milk thistle would be enough. Definitly recommend live.52, drinking plenty of water, and make the most of your cycle every day in case you do experience any sides due to the sulfur.



I didn't get any rash's or anything of that nature. What I got was a swollen node/gland. On my left side under my ear. Painful only to the touch. This means my body is reacting to some type of infection. Could be something even as little as flue or a allergy infection. The one thing it can be at worst is liver damage to a bad degree. So in this respect it's the one I did bloods concerning. The fact it's methyl or the sulfar....either way my liver was getting stressed too much.
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Well phuck, now you have me worrying. I had a minor sore throat and a couple swollen nodes in my neck a week ago but everything went away within 12 hours. I woke up this morning feeling achy all over as well.
 
Well that was a fun ride at least bro and I use liv52 on cycle so we will see how good that works when I get bloods done...good job on these 3 weeks very detailed broski
 
Yeah I'm not too concerned for myself at this stage, only day 5 for me. I'm also running AI support, and I'm gunna put in an order for TUDCA or Liv.52 to start asap. And this also being my first ph and methylated compound, time will only tell for me too.

Good job on the run you were able to have though, congrats man
 
STLJones said:
Well phuck, now you have me worrying. I had a minor sore throat and a couple swollen nodes in my neck a week ago but everything went away within 12 hours. I woke up this morning feeling achy all over as well.
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I wouldn't worry too much. A swollen node just means your body is under attack. It obviously was from the sore throat. Ph's weaken the immune system so you can even catch a fever easily. It's just your body reacting. I just get bloods done because it's safe to know I can cross 'liver toxicity' off the list. During the process figured out it was stressing my liver pretty good.



I'm happy with the results I got though. Definitely bigger then when I started.

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epstaneman said:
I wouldn't worry too much. A swollen node just means your body is under attack. It obviously was from the sore throat. Ph's weaken the immune system so you can even catch a fever easily. It's just your body reacting. I just get bloods done because it's safe to know I can cross 'liver toxicity' off the list. During the process figured it was stressing my liver pretty good.



I'm happy with the results I got though. Definitely bigger then when I started.

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hell yea and in only 3 weeks, thats awesome. thinking about hopping on the juice? stuff is even cheaper ha. Just complete horsesh*t that they are a scheduled drug.
 
BLOOD WORK RESULTS FOR HEP C


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Good news. No jaundice setting in. So even though my liver took a beating...it seems to be a go for my Nolvadex. Will presume PCT as planned and monitor my liver. These research chems are pretty harsh as well. Will be posting bloods up through out pct.




Read my log close guys. Notice I didn't have any visual sides of liver stress, but my liver was still getting tossed around like a stepford wife on a Saturday night. I didn't use my traditional "Live.52" with my support product. Next go around I definitely will. Will also make my cycle short. I know when dossed right, Epistane can produce great results with a calorie surplus. As far as new comers go. So, hopefully my liver go's well during pct and all will be done in about a month from now. Will continue updates.
 
Will have pics up tomorrow guys. Stupid woman can't even work a camera this morning. It's just point and click for fu*ks sake!


why...WHY do women make things that are so simple.....much more complicated then they have to be.





.........................If they didn't have vagina's I'd kill them all.
 
You're hilarious man. Good luck with pct.
For all your bloods, did you keep going to your regular doc and request what to screen for? Or did you tell him what you're up to?
 
threeFs said:
You're hilarious man. Good luck with pct.
For all your bloods, did you keep going to your regular doc and request what to screen for? Or did you tell him what you're up to?
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I used the sticky here on AM for 'cheap bloodwork'


I use a website I order the tests online from, I bring a requisition paper with me to my local lab corp, and they discretely take my blood no questions ask.
 
EPSTANE MAN'S TRAINING SPLIT FOR BEASTLY GAINS



Monday: Chest/Triceps

3 sets Incline Dumbbell fly
3 sets Incline Bench
3 sets Flat Bench
3 sets Pec Fly or Cable Machine


3 sets Tricep Pull Downs
3 sets Overhead Tricep Extention *w/rope
1 set Dips till failure



Tuesday: Back/Biceps

3 sets Wide Grip Pull-ups Behind Kneck
3 sets Wide Grip Lat Pull Downs
3 sets Seated rows
3 sets T-Bar Rows
2 sets Hyper Extentions

3 sets EZ Bar Curls
3 sets Alternating Dumb Bell Curls


Wednesday: Abs



Thursday: Arm day triceps/biceps/forarms

3 sets Close Grip Bench
3 sets Skull Crushers
3 sets Tricep Press Downs
2 sets Dips till failure

3 sets Seated Ez-bar Curls
3 sets Standing Revearse BarBell Curls
3 sets Alternating dumb bell hammer curls

3 sets behind back wrist curls
3 sets seated reverse wrist curls




Friday: Traps/Shoulders

3 sets DB Shoulder Press
3 sets Shoulder Press 'Smith Machine'
3 sets Rear Delt Flys
3 sets Barbell Shrugs
3 sets Cable or Barbell upright rows
3 sets Barbell Front Raises
3 sets Seated Lateral Raises 'Drop Set'


Saturday: Legs/abs

5 sets Squats
5 sets Leg Press
3 sets Standing Calf Raises
3 sets Seated Calf Raises


Sunday: Rest Day



Abs

4 sets cable crunches
4 sets leg raises on captains chair
 
I found this interesting read that would have calmed my nerves more and saved me from shelling out cash for a HEP C blood test. I may have been able to stay on for another week to finish up the bottle....but being this is my first official cycle, I will use it as a learning experience. We'll see how much damage the research chem does and use that info to decide next cycles dosage and length.




READING AST/ALT ON LIVER BLOOD WORK

How is it used?
The alanine aminotransferase (ALT) blood test is typically used to detect liver injury. It is often ordered in conjunction with aspartate aminotransferase (AST) or as part of a liver panel to screen for and/or help diagnose liver disease. AST and ALT are considered to be two of the most important tests to detect liver injury, although ALT is more specific than AST. Sometimes AST is compared directly to ALT and an AST/ALT ratio is calculated. This ratio may be used to distinguish between different causes of liver damage.

ALT values are often compared to the results of other tests such as alkaline phosphatase (ALP), total protein, and bilirubin to help determine which form of liver disease is present.

ALT is often used to monitor the treatment of persons who have liver disease, to see if the treatment is working, and may be ordered either by itself or along with other tests for this purpose.



When is it ordered?
A doctor usually orders an ALT test (and several others) to evaluate a person who has symptoms of a liver disorder. Some of these symptoms include:

Weakness, fatigue
Loss of appetite
Nausea, vomiting
Abdominal swelling and/or pain
Jaundice
Dark urine, light colored stool
Itching (pruritus)
ALT may also be ordered, either by itself or with other tests, for people who are at an increased risk for liver disease. Some examples include:

Persons who have a history of known or possible exposure to hepatitis viruses
Those who are heavy drinkers
Individuals whose families have a history of liver disease
Persons who take drugs that might occasionally damage the liver
Persons who are overweight and/or have diabetes
In persons with mild symptoms, such as fatigue or loss of energy, ALT may be tested to make sure they do not have chronic liver disease.

When ALT is used to monitor the treatment of persons who have liver disease, it may be ordered on a regular basis during the course of treatment to determine whether the therapy is effective.



What does the test result mean?


Normally, levels of ALT in the blood are low.

Very high levels of ALT (more than 10 times the highest normal level) are usually due to acute hepatitis, often due to a virus infection. In acute hepatitis, ALT levels usually stay high for about 1–2 months but can take as long as 3–6 months to return to normal. Levels of ALT may also be markedly elevated as a result of exposure to drugs or other substances that are toxic to the liver as well as in conditions that cause decreased blood flow (ischemia) to the liver.

ALT levels are usually not as high in chronic hepatitis, often less than 4 times the highest normal level. In this case, ALT levels often vary between normal and slightly increased, so doctors typically will order the test frequently to see if there is a pattern. Other causes of moderate increases in ALT include obstruction of bile ducts, cirrhosis (usually the result of chronic hepatitis or bile duct obstruction), and with tumors in the liver.

In most types of liver diseases, the ALT level is higher than AST, and the AST/ALT ratio will be low. There are a few exceptions. The AST/ALT ratio is usually increased in alcoholic hepatitis, cirrhosis, and with muscle injury.

ALT is often performed together with a test for AST or as part of a liver panel. For more about ALT results in relation to other liver tests, see the Liver Panel article.



Is there anything else I should know?
A shot or injection of medicine into the muscle tissue, or strenuous exercise, may increase ALT levels.

Many drugs may raise ALT levels by causing liver damage in a very small percentage of patients taking the drug. This is true of both prescription drugs and some "natural" health products. Be sure to tell your doctor about all the drugs and health supplements you are taking. Eating too much fast food can also cause mild increases in ALT by causing liver damage; this typically will return to normal when a normal diet is resumed.
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Any idea why taking a ph makes us sore all over again? On my day 2 I did a normal workout considering it was only day 2 yet that body part is feeling sore on day 3-4. Not complaining, instead I like it, but does anyone know why? Sorry epstaneman I didn't mean to hijack ur thread but there's a lot of knowledgeable members in here including your self
 
cokeholio said:
Any idea why taking a ph makes us sore all over again? On my day 2 I did a normal workout considering it was only day 2 yet that body part is feeling sore on day 3-4. Not complaining, instead I like it, but does anyone know why? Sorry epstaneman I didn't mean to hijack ur thread but there's a lot of knowledgeable members in here including your self
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Sounds to me like you just started training after some period away from the gym. Or maybe now your actually pushing yourself since you know your taking a PH. Remember to take some Tudca or Live.52 instead of just your supports. Epistane is a pretty harsh methyl. The more you eat, the more gains you'll see. ;)
 
Well what do you know. My women decides to get fancy with taking pics....messes with some editing sh*t on her Iphone...makes the pics come out like crap, then when she got em right she didn't get em at the right angles...then there was a flash when the before pic didn't have a flash.

JUST POINT AND CLICK WOMAN! Don't do nothing else! Literally....NOTHING ELSE! But nooooooooooooo.

Either the case...This is as best as it's going to get guys.


Here are my 3 week progress pics.



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cokeholio said:
Picking up a 180 ct bottle tomm thanks. Follow the bottle dosing?
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Well I used liv.52. for the short period I took Superdrol, I took 3caps of liv.52 a day. Bloods didn't show any liver damage so I know 3 a day will do. Course everyone's liver is different but you can go off that to help figure your dosing. If you bought a HUGE bottle I'd take at least 4 caps a day along with the supports. Way I see it bro, the better you protect your liver, the longer you can remain on cycle and have fun.
 
j05441 said:
Would you run liv 52 if you ram epi again? Bro you gots me all kinds of worried about my upcoming run
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All kinds of worried? What do you think methylated compounds are? They're designed to BEAT UP the liver and resist break down. Damage is to be expected and if I ran Epi again, which I plan too, I will be using liv52 and probably one other product like tudca on top of it. I'd shoot for a full 4 week run at 45mg ED and eat my ass off.
 
epstaneman said:
All kinds of worried? What do you think methylated compounds are? They're designed to BEAT UP the liver and resist break down. Damage is to be expected and if I ran Epi again, which I plan too, I will be using liv52 and probably one other product like tudca on top of it. I'd shoot for a full 4 week run at 45mg ED and eat my ass off.
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That sounds like my next epi cycle next year. If I don't talk my self into pinning test e.
 
me too, you got some amazing results bro , especially in just 3 weeks! please keep us updated (also with pics would be awesome) throughout and after your pct
 
sunaddicted said:
me too, you got some amazing results bro , especially in just 3 weeks! please keep us updated (also with pics would be awesome) throughout and after your pct
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j05441 said:
Epstane man, I can't wait to see your post pct results and bloods
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I'll be updating weekly throughout PCT and include my blood work so you'll can see how my hormones come back with what dosing etc. When I'm completely done with PCT I'll include post pct pictures.
 
PCT WEEK 1:


So far so good. Shoulders are still fu*ked up but I'm working em out regardless. Just going very light. Sleeping wrong doesn't help either. Keeping my gains. Taking 4 caps of my liv.52 every day, my AI cycle support at rec dose, my fish oils, lean xtreme, daa, and Nolvadex. After this second week I'll be getting my hormones and liver checked. Next update will include bloods.

Wouldn't even know I was on pct really. I have never responded negatively toward Nolvadex so I'm hooked on the stuff. Guess I'll be banging Nolvadex on the side till I can get up in some Epistane again. :spankme:
 
Good to hear that things are [mostly] going well.

When you hit the epistane again, you mentioned using the same 45mg dosing. You also planning to stick with the same brand then?
 
Yeah good to hear so far man,
My AST=33 ALT=28, up from 22/22 btw. This is at week 5 of 6 after switching from EPI to DMZ.
Taking TUDCA however-wont ever run without it probably.
Curious why yours skyrocketed, seems strange.
 
loafy777 said:
Good to hear that things are [mostly] going well.

When you hit the epistane again, you mentioned using the same 45mg dosing. You also planning to stick with the same brand then?
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Ya. I still have a whole other sealed bottle. Also will help me de-bug the myth on epistanes 6month expiration date. I didn't get any sides at 45mg so I see no reason to up it. I was making great gains.

If anything I could of made more if I just had ate more. One of my regrets being the cycle had to end. I should of took advantage of every single day on cycle. Next time I'm definitely going to have to add mass gainer shakes.
 
lumipz said:
Yeah good to hear so far man,
My AST=33 ALT=28, up from 22/22 btw. This is at week 5 of 6 after switching from EPI to DMZ.
Taking TUDCA however-wont ever run without it probably.
Curious why yours skyrocketed, seems strange.
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Some peoples livers are strong....others not so. Is what it is. Could even be a response to the sulfar. Either the case my liver was pretty stressed. Nothing to go have a heart attack over, but considering I was just 3 weeks in.......it was pretty gay.


What I'm more curious to find out is how quickly it recovers. This will help me better set up my next cycle. Next go around I'll use my Liv.52 along with supports which I usually do. Didn't this time. Go figure. Likely will add Tudca along with it.
 
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