Morning Wood -- What da Deal-yo?

[hardasnails1973]

Ok my erectile function is beyond incredible FINALLY.
Here is my question
Is there any documentation out there on estrogen deficiency affecting serotonin levels in men. All I can find is about menopause and women.
i found research showing that estrogen increases 5hiaa (serotonin metabolite) , but does this also occur in males as well. Since testosterone inhibits Mao activity this may be one of the mechanism for helping to relieve depression in males.

 

[SoMdHunter]

Hell man it's not that bad I am 63 have sex 2 to 3 times a week what else is there. Don't evern start talking like this or you never know they shoot you in the movie So-loid Green (spelling) anyway there was a shortage of food in this movie so when you hit that age they killed you and made food out of you called So-Loid Green. Things to think about when you get my age.
Phil

You are where I am trying to get to! I'm glad to hear there is still hope for me!

 

[hardasnails1973]

Now Wonder i was feeling like crap the DIM I was taking had the Dim pro in it but I kind of overloaded the 340 mgs of calcium carbonate per tablet. Ad i was taking 1 hours after my thryoid pill (t3). No wonder i was getting constipated, could not think straight, but incredible erections lasting up to 4 or more hours

 

[wildfox]

Ok my erectile function is beyond incredible FINALLY.
Here is my question
Is there any documentation out there on estrogen deficiency affecting serotonin levels in men. All I can find is about menopause and women.
i found research showing that estrogen increases 5hiaa (serotonin metabolite) , but does this also occur in males as well. Since testosterone inhibits Mao activity this may be one of the mechanism for helping to relieve depression in males.

Congratulations! Would you mind summarizing what you attribute this success to?
Thanks.

 

[hardasnails1973]

Congratulations! Would you mind summarizing what you attribute this success to?
Thanks.

Probably detoxifying the bad estrogen, Through urine test I find that I was very undermethylated and also spilling xenoestrogen into urine (xylene). My B/12/ where underactive and my CBS/TMG where all over loaded. This was identifying to me that my body was detoxifiying something. Also elevated bilrubin was telling that my body was really detoxifying something. I also have an idea that why my copper levels are low is because fact that estrogen is needed to increase copper and that the xenoestrogen were binding to estrogen recepotors possiby causing symptoms of estrogen over load while causing low bioavailablity of estrodial. My estrodial has never been out of balance, but I have symptoms of estrogen domiance.

What was the kicker that started this crap off was 3 years ago i was taking tren and winny with 1 mg a day armidex no test so over 8 week period i drove my estrogen into the ground casuing severe insulin imbalances. Estrogen increases insulin, but I always had indicators of low insulin (low LDL,low cholesterol, low trigycerides,) but I had high elevated blood sugar 109 but drs ignored it. Lableing is as depression.
Actually a theory could be that low estrogen can cause low testosterone due to the fact that it can cause fatty liver and further lead into insulin resistance (pre diabetes). People with fatt liver have altered zinc metabolism which could be reason why for low testosterone in these people and diabetes.

 

[cajunbam]

Phil,

Take both the Phyto dim and the TMG?? Or can I just start with the dim and see what happens????

THX,
Brian

PhytoPharmica Indolplex with DIM
Also take some as per Dr. John TMG it helps wash out the good E's that get converted and bad ones from the liver.
49% OffTMG Trimethylglycine 750mg 120 caps,Source Naturals - 49% Off Source Naturals T
Phil

 

[hardasnails1973]

I would love to know how estrogen domainace affects serotonin if it causes to increase or to decrease. I can only find stuff on women not men

Pgrmmer i know some people on 10grams androgel split them one morning and one mid afternoon would this splitting of dosages lower the estrogen possible?

Could increasing testosterone actually put more stress on the adrenals (if not supported or run out fo HC LOL) due to fact that testosterone increasing t4 to t3 conversion. Be so glad to get my insurance feb that way we can run a whole mess of test. I have an idea my estrodial levels are fine, but I not metabolising the bad estrogen and its been building up. Nice urine test will show this up. Or it could just be simple unresolvef adrenal fatigue. But since adding testosterone I been sleeping like a baby

 

[pmgamer18]

Phil,

Take both the Phyto dim and the TMG?? Or can I just start with the dim and see what happens????

THX,
Brian

Yes do both start with the Indolplex/DIM at dinner time and the TMG at bed time.
Phil

 

[cajunbam]

Can someone share some information on the "fatty liver" syndrome? Perhaps, a website or something to explain how to tell if you have it and what can be done about it.

THX,
Brian

Probably detoxifying the bad estrogen, Through urine test I find that I was very undermethylated and also spilling xenoestrogen into urine (xylene). My B/12/ where underactive and my CBS/TMG where all over loaded. This was identifying to me that my body was detoxifiying something. Also elevated bilrubin was telling that my body was really detoxifying something. I also have an idea that why my copper levels are low is because fact that estrogen is needed to increase copper and that the xenoestrogen were binding to estrogen recepotors possiby causing symptoms of estrogen over load while causing low bioavailablity of estrodial. My estrodial has never been out of balance, but I have symptoms of estrogen domiance.

What was the kicker that started this crap off was 3 years ago i was taking tren and winny with 1 mg a day armidex no test so over 8 week period i drove my estrogen into the ground casuing severe insulin imbalances. Estrogen increases insulin, but I always had indicators of low insulin (low LDL,low cholesterol, low trigycerides,) but I had high elevated blood sugar 109 but drs ignored it. Lableing is as depression.
Actually a theory could be that low estrogen can cause low testosterone due to the fact that it can cause fatty liver and further lead into insulin resistance (pre diabetes). People with fatt liver have altered zinc metabolism which could be reason why for low testosterone in these people and diabetes.

 

[pmgamer18]

I never did it 5 grams in the morning and 5 grams at night tyied it but I could not sleep. What does Cortisl levels have to do with Testosterone. I feel we need them all in good shape to have one off causes a problem with the rest.
Phil

I would love to know how estrogen domainace affects serotonin if it causes to increase or to decrease. I can only find stuff on women not men

Pgrmmer i know some people on 10grams androgel split them one morning and one mid afternoon would this splitting of dosages lower the estrogen possible?

Could increasing testosterone actually put more stress on the adrenals (if not supported or run out fo HC LOL) due to fact that testosterone increasing t4 to t3 conversion. Be so glad to get my insurance feb that way we can run a whole mess of test. I have an idea my estrodial levels are fine, but I not metabolising the bad estrogen and its been building up. Nice urine test will show this up. Or it could just be simple unresolvef adrenal fatigue. But since adding testosterone I been sleeping like a baby

 

[wildman536]

interesting topic....

yes it is.

 

[BigAk]

Does morning wood work as an indicator that one's hormones are in good range and good ratios??

The reason I ask is that almost everyone mention morning wood as a good sign when trying to restart one's HPTA. That's in addition to other signs; such as testes size, libido, gym strength, etc...

 

[pmgamer18]

Does morning wood work as an indicator that one's hormones are in good range and good ratios??

The reason I ask is that almost everyone mention morning wood as a good sign when trying to restart one's HPTA. That's in addition to other signs; such as testes size, libido, gym strength, etc...

I feel morning wood has to do with high or low Estridiol. I feel when it is not at the right levels you have problems. We do know Estradiol plays hell on other hormones. You Thyriod is one and this is what powers are body. I did not have morning wood for over 35 yrs. When I first tested my Estardiol it was way up over 90. Getting it down My ED went away, I could have sex with out a pill and reach an orgasm. I had lost this for over 10 yrs. do to high Estradiol. I also had bad panic attacks felt hot all day and wood sweat a lot. If I took a hot shower I broke out in a rash. I could not go into my spa. And the brain fog was dam bad. So you see for me high Estradiol had me in a mess.
Phil

 

[cajunbam]

Yes do both start with the Indolplex/DIM at dinner time and the TMG at bed time.
Phil

Phil,

My E2 is at 24. Should I half that dosage since it is still in the "normal" range?

Also, can you share some of your knowledge regarding the "fatty liver" syndrome? I've been sober for over 2 years now after about 20 intoxicating years........

THX,
Brian

 

[pmgamer18]

Phil,

My E2 is at 24. Should I half that dosage since it is still in the "normal" range?

Also, can you share some of your knowledge regarding the "fatty liver" syndrome? I've been sober for over 2 years now after about 20 intoxicating years........

THX,
Brian

No maybe this dose is what's keeping you at 24 what was your E2 when you started and how long have you been on the Idnolpolex/DIM. I you have morning wood all is good.
I can't say about fatty liver I do know if you have this it can lower your testosterone levels. Does your Dr. treat this.
Phil

 

[cajunbam]

No maybe this dose is what's keeping you at 24 what was your E2 when you started and how long have you been on the Idnolpolex/DIM. I you have morning wood all is good.
I can't say about fatty liver I do know if you have this it can lower your testosterone levels. Does your Dr. treat this.
Phil

Phil,

No my doctor does not treat me for this. All of my liver function tests results are very good.

I haven't yet received the DIM. The 24 is where I am before starting anything, i.e., baseline E2 (Estradiol).

Thanks for your reply and all of the great info you so unselfishy share!

Peace,
Brian

 

[cajunbam]

Phil,

No my doctor does not treat me for this. All of my liver function tests results are very good.

I haven't yet received the DIM. The 24 is where I am before starting anything, i.e., baseline E2 (Estradiol).

Thanks for your reply and all of the great info you so unselfishy share!

Peace,
Brian

Received the pkg on Friday. Took the first one on Friday, 2nd on Saturday and Sunday and Monday morning, voila! It was on. But, this morning, back down again. I'll stop for a couple of days and then restart at 1/2 pill.

Thanks for the advice Phil.

L8R,
soup

 

[pmgamer18]

Your the second guy in a week that told me this yes you went down fast you were most likey not that low to start. Some men do good at 1/3 a tablet but man that is a hard cut.
Phil

Received the pkg on Friday. Took the first one on Friday, 2nd on Saturday and Sunday and Monday morning, voila! It was on. But, this morning, back down again. I'll stop for a couple of days and then restart at 1/2 pill.

Thanks for the advice Phil.

L8R,
soup

 

[cajunbam]

Your the second guy in a week that told me this yes you went down fast you were most likey not that low to start. Some men do good at 1/3 a tablet but man that is a hard cut.
Phil

gotcha...........not gonna try to tird's it!

 

[SoMdHunter]

How about 1/2 a pill EOD?

 

[pmgamer18]

How about 1/2 a pill EOD?

No to short a half life you need to have it everyday the body likes this. You can not stress the body by giving it something that works to help it and then take it away for a day.
Phil

 

[SoMdHunter]

No to short a half life you need to have it everyday the body likes this. You can not stress the body by giving it something that works to help it and then take it away for a day.
Phil

LOL! Shows how little I know! You got a pm from me over on bb.

SMH

 

[JanSz]

Your the second guy in a week that told me this yes you went down fast you were most likey not that low to start. Some men do good at 1/3 a tablet but man that is a hard cut.
Phil

EDITED BY DR. CRISLER:

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PLEASE KEEP THIS IN MIND.

 

[JanSz]

EDITED BY DR. CRISLER:

WE ARE NOT GOING TO PROMOTE ILLEGAL DRUG SALES ON THIS FORUM. LEGITIMATE PRESCRIPTION MEDICATIONS ONLY!

PLEASE KEEP THIS IN MIND.

I am sorry if some of the links I may have posted,
promoted illegal drugs.
Wonder if you could e-mail me the offending link or name or whatever caused the offence,
because by now I do not remember what it was,
and am afraid I may do it again.

This blog is valuable to me and my health and I would hate having problems using it.

Sorry again.
JanSz

 

[hardasnails1973]

No maybe this dose is what's keeping you at 24 what was your E2 when you started and how long have you been on the Idnolpolex/DIM. I you have morning wood all is good.
I can't say about fatty liver I do know if you have this it can lower your testosterone levels. Does your Dr. treat this.
Phil

'

If you been a drinker for 20 years your gluthione levels are in the dumper and sam-e levels are drained. your folate/b-12 metabolsm been altered and also homocysteine levels are through the roof most likely. Your estrogen metabolism is altered and your natural flora is wiped out of your intestinal tract. So replenish the good flora will helps enhance the estrogen metabolism which the DIM is actually supporting when probably the real cause would be decreased conjugation that is occuring in the liver due to dybosis of the bowel. So people with estrogen metabolism by reestablish the good balance in the gut could possible allevaite alot of poor estrogen metabolism. As for fatty liver sam-e is needed to make phosphodyl chloine which is need to support proper fat metabolism, as well as 100's of methylation reaction in the body Your neurochemistry is also probably altered meaning your zinc, b-6, magnesium deficeint, gaba and serotnin levels are in the toilet. Your ability to make P5P is reduce which is also meeded for metabolism of estrogen. As for fatty liver you need biotin, r ALA, carnitine, milk thistle . As for serum test for liver function useless unless you are off the charts. One can have normal liver enzyme and still have a non functoining liver. Have dr do a functioinal liver detoxifcation and see how well you liver fends from caffine, aspir, and advil then you will see how well your liver is really working. I dealt with this BS saying your liver is fine and when I demanded to have the test liver functionality test ran the dr was singing a differnt tune. We know our bodies better then most drs and if something is wrong we know it. Aftr 20 years of intoxifcation I highly suggest to have it done to see how well your liver is functioning.
If a person is 24 estrodial on TRT and the blood work was drawn with out taking the cream first before the blood test. then if the creme was applied and then 2-3 hours blood was drawn would there be a good chance of the estrodial being increased susbstanially?

Phil here is something that puzzles me if DIM does not lower estrodial then why are people experiencing low estrogen symptoms even though there estrodial levels may not have changed. Or is it just a psychosomatic response?

 

[cajunbam]

'

If you been a drinker for 20 years your gluthione levels are in the dumper and sam-e levels are drained. your folate/b-12 metabolsm been altered and also homocysteine levels are through the roof most likely. Your estrogen metabolism is altered and your natural flora is wiped out of your intestinal tract. So replenish the good flora will helps enhance the estrogen metabolism which the DIM is actually supporting when probably the real cause would be decreased conjugation that is occuring in the liver due to dybosis of the bowel. So people with estrogen metabolism by reestablish the good balance in the gut could possible allevaite alot of poor estrogen metabolism. As for fatty liver sam-e is needed to make phosphodyl chloine which is need to support proper fat metabolism, as well as 100's of methylation reaction in the body Your neurochemistry is also probably altered meaning your zinc, b-6, magnesium deficeint, gaba and serotnin levels are in the toilet. Your ability to make P5P is reduce which is also meeded for metabolism of estrogen. As for fatty liver you need biotin, r ALA, carnitine, milk thistle . As for serum test for liver function useless unless you are off the charts. One can have normal liver enzyme and still have a non functoining liver. Have dr do a functioinal liver detoxifcation and see how well you liver fends from caffine, aspir, and advil then you will see how well your liver is really working. I dealt with this BS saying your liver is fine and when I demanded to have the test liver functionality test ran the dr was singing a differnt tune. We know our bodies better then most drs and if something is wrong we know it. Aftr 20 years of intoxifcation I highly suggest to have it done to see how well your liver is functioning.
If a person is 24 estrodial on TRT and the blood work was drawn with out taking the cream first before the blood test. then if the creme was applied and then 2-3 hours blood was drawn would there be a good chance of the estrodial being increased susbstanially?

Phil here is something that puzzles me if DIM does not lower estrodial then why are people experiencing low estrogen symptoms even though there estrodial levels may not have changed. Or is it just a psychosomatic response?

hardasnails,
Thanks for the detailed response. As you suspected, I was an avid alcohol drinker up until about 2 years ago. The estradiol (ultra-sensitive assay) of 24 is prior to any TRT. I have just begun taking 100mg T-cyp per week with 250iu each day prior to the t-cyp. I am also now taking phil's recommended DIM and TMG. Also, I am taking an HGH releaser before bedtime which contains gaba and dopamine among other things. As you suggested, my serotonin levels are in the toilet and am currently on effexor for anxiety and wellbutrin for depression, so I've got to be careful about all the supps I take until I get a chance to fly up to Lansing to visit Dr. John. In the past I did take a ZMA supp at bedtime and throughout the day I took 800mg of R-ALA and 2g of ALCAR (only drawback was that it got to be pretty expensive). I can truly say, this was a time when I felt my best in a long time. Unfortunately, my family income and expenses don't currently allow for me to take every supp that I need. Tell you what, I'll list out below what I do take currently, and from there, please feel free to tweak.......Thanks for your response! That's the first time I had anyone explain the effects of a fatty liver in such detail......

upon arising:
5g BCAA
1 aspirin

with breakfast:
3.6g fish oil gelcaps
1 multivitamin/mineral
1g vit. c
glucosamine/chondroitin (may stop after a month of TRT)

before lunch:
my Rx

after lunch:
3.6g fish oil
2 caps source natural liver guard
1g vit c
1 vit e - 400iu

with dinner:
2.4g fish oil (total 9.6g each day)
1/2 DIM Indolplex
1 TMG

bedtime: (used to eat a little cottage cheese until starting the hgh releaser)
HGH releaser
considering ZMA also at this time

Thanks in advance for your time!

Brian

 

[hardasnails1973]

EAse up on the fish oils your liver has alreqady endured enough lipid perioxadtion as is and excesive fish oils are going to add insult to it. You should be thinking about focusing a 1-2 TBSP of EVO (extra virgin olive oil) reason being EVO will help your antioxident reserve and will cut back in the oxidative stress endured by the liver. Reason they got you on anti depressants is if they would check your Amino acid sequence your b-12/ folate are probably not being metabolized properly in the brain. Alcohol distrupts blood brain barrier as well as altered glucose metabolism occurs. Your dr could prescribe cerefolin which is a prescribed supplement that will help torebuild your sam-e levels much better then TMG. TMG is only one pathway, methione synthase is the other (methyl b-12, folininc acid). I going to help my girl with her disertation for drs and it going to focus on why antidepressants would be a thing of the past. For some they are a must but 60-70% of the time people do not need them and simple balacing of the liver, proper EFA ratio, rebuild the cell membrane stability, finding out what you are lacking (minerals, amino, vitamins, ect) is all that would be needed in order to over depression. For now actually you need GLA equal to that of amount of fish oils and then you should see a rapid response in alot of symtpoms MAINLY DEPRESSION. Not getting into alot of detail by specific enzyme in fat conversions are altered in alocoholic liver and GLA will over ride this pathway and make a huge differnce in production of PGE-1 AKA your Morning wood problems and test levels, also help in metabolism of glucose. in order to really understand your self biological think of your system of an autistic child and that of a prediabetic to give you an indication of what needs to be addressed. That is why I do evasive testing with clients to look for the imbalances or road blocks that go hidden by traditional medicine. The reason I like this board is because there is alot of medical information backed by sound medical advise or scientific date vs other lame boards.

points to take home
Ease up on fish oils cut back 1/2 to 3/4 (too much a good thing is a bad things especially your antioxident reserve are down)
Add in GLA (evening primose oil) GLA: DHA/EPA 1:1 ratio
excessive R- ALA at 800 mgs with no biotin with bring kreb cycle to grinding halt. If you are using that mush 10 mgs biotin would off set this from happening.

Vitamin E is good but 800 ius mixed tocepherols would be better in your case

Ask dr about cerefolin - This is one of the most underacted drugs that will when med community pulls wakes up and smells the coffee, could be the biggest preventor of diabetes, stroke, depression, and other age related problems


Phil or DR john. So let me get this right when I goto the lab to get blood drawn and they mark off estrodial only and do not specify male sensitive essay that i am getting the wrong test results so all this time I have been getting the wrong information and diagnosis from trained medical experts.

 

[cajunbam]

EAse up on the fish oils your liver has alreqady endured enough lipid perioxadtion as is and excesive fish oils are going to add insult to it. You should be thinking about focusing a 1-2 TBSP of EVO (extra virgin olive oil) reason being EVO will help your antioxident reserve and will cut back in the oxidative stress endured by the liver. Reason they got you on anti depressants is if they would check your Amino acid sequence your b-12/ folate are probably not being metabolized properly in the brain. Alcohol distrupts blood brain barrier as well as altered glucose metabolism occurs. Your dr could prescribe cerefolin which is a prescribed supplement that will help torebuild your sam-e levels much better then TMG. TMG is only one pathway, methione synthase is the other (methyl b-12, folininc acid). I going to help my girl with her disertation for drs and it going to focus on why antidepressants would be a thing of the past. For some they are a must but 60-70% of the time people do not need them and simple balacing of the liver, proper EFA ratio, rebuild the cell membrane stability, finding out what you are lacking (minerals, amino, vitamins, ect) is all that would be needed in order to over depression. For now actually you need GLA equal to that of amount of fish oils and then you should see a rapid response in alot of symtpoms MAINLY DEPRESSION. Not getting into alot of detail by specific enzyme in fat conversions are altered in alocoholic liver and GLA will over ride this pathway and make a huge differnce in production of PGE-1 AKA your Morning wood problems and test levels, also help in metabolism of glucose. in order to really understand your self biological think of your system of an autistic child and that of a prediabetic to give you an indication of what needs to be addressed. That is why I do evasive testing with clients to look for the imbalances or road blocks that go hidden by traditional medicine. The reason I like this board is because there is alot of medical information backed by sound medical advise or scientific date vs other lame boards.

points to take home
Ease up on fish oils cut back 1/2 to 3/4 (too much a good thing is a bad things especially your antioxident reserve are down)
Add in GLA (evening primose oil) GLA: DHA/EPA 1:1 ratio
excessive R- ALA at 800 mgs with no biotin with bring kreb cycle to grinding halt. If you are using that mush 10 mgs biotin would off set this from happening.

Vitamin E is good but 800 ius mixed tocepherols would be better in your case

Ask dr about cerefolin - This is one of the most underacted drugs that will when med community pulls wakes up and smells the coffee, could be the biggest preventor of diabetes, stroke, depression, and other age related problems


Phil or DR john. So let me get this right when I goto the lab to get blood drawn and they mark off estrodial only and do not specify male sensitive essay that i am getting the wrong test results so all this time I have been getting the wrong information and diagnosis from trained medical experts.

Thanks. I'll check into the cerefolin. I don't currently take any r-ala and alcar due to limited funds. Just to confirm, I'll reduce the fish oil and take EVO and GLA as well as taking an additional vit e (i'll get the mixed tocos next time). Anything else on the list that I might be able to get away with not taking after adding your suggestions, i.e. Liver guard, TMG, hgh releasers, ZMA, etc.

L8R,
Brian

 

[ItsHectic]

Get Isomer-E as a vitamin E.

If your going to take ZMA, your multivitamin should contain 2mg of copper and 2mg of manganese.
Your liver guard dose should be 1 cap twice a day, not 2 once a day.
ZMA shouldnt be taken around the same time as calcium containing suppliments or food, maybe consider taking it in the morning as soon as you wake up, although this isnt too important.

You might save money by buying an Omega3-6-9 supp just make sure it contains fish oil and not flax seed oil as an omega 3 source.

 

[TheCSWFighter]

The sensation will come back I had this problem. When I got my E2 down and could get it up for sex I could not orgasm would have to finish it off by hand. In 4 months keeping my E2 down it came back. Yet I have days it takes longer.
Phil

I'm very curious about this. I myself have trouble ejaculating during sex and have not beenable to. My girlfriend and I can have sex for and hour and she can try to finish me off but for some reason I can only bust when I do it. Might this have any relation to what you're talking about?

 

[hardasnails1973]

Thanks. I'll check into the cerefolin. I don't currently take any r-ala and alcar due to limited funds. Just to confirm, I'll reduce the fish oil and take EVO and GLA as well as taking an additional vit e (i'll get the mixed tocos next time). Anything else on the list that I might be able to get away with not taking after adding your suggestions, i.e. Liver guard, TMG, hgh releasers, ZMA, etc.

L8R,
Brian

By adding this that and everything else including the kitchen sink i was just thinking by time you add everything up supplements and everything else you are way above 100 bucks. For $80 check into a product called intramax by druckerlabs you need a md or chiro to order it but it will alleveiate majority of supplements, plus it was designed for people with compromised immube systems and 100% organic, plus detoxes you from cellular level up and focuses on entire body not just indivedual systems

 

[ItsHectic]

65 electrolytes, o.0.

Why does it have noni, that stuff is a scam isnt it?

 

[hardasnails1973]

65 electrolytes, o.0.

Why does it have noni, that stuff is a scam isnt it?

I used it before and put other people on it and they felt a differnce in little less then a week. It is not a scam and I am not a distrubuter for it. Just thought it might save him some money with all supplements combined in one. in order to gain access you need chiro or MD I do not think its a scam

 

[SoMdHunter]

I'm very curious about this. I myself have trouble ejaculating during sex and have not beenable to. My girlfriend and I can have sex for and hour and she can try to finish me off but for some reason I can only bust when I do it. Might this have any relation to what you're talking about?

It very well could be. Certainly worth checking into. I'm still having problems. I put this off to a certain amount of loss of sensation. However, by hand, you can apply the needed pressure/sensation needed to finish. It isn't the best way, but it still relieves the stress and tension. At least your gf is understanding about the whole situation. Show her how to do it, and it can add some spice to your sex life. Obviously it should be corrected though.

 

[cajunbam]

Get Isomer-E as a vitamin E.

If your going to take ZMA, your multivitamin should contain 2mg of copper and 2mg of manganese.
Your liver guard dose should be 1 cap twice a day, not 2 once a day.
ZMA shouldnt be taken around the same time as calcium containing suppliments or food, maybe consider taking it in the morning as soon as you wake up, although this isnt too important.

You might save money by buying an Omega3-6-9 supp just make sure it contains fish oil and not flax seed oil as an omega 3 source.

That sounds like an unbelievable product. So, I could basically clean out the cabinet in the kitchen and replace it with one bottle of this. Unreal! But, I'd probably still need to get the fish oil-what do you think of cod liver oil?

Oh, by the way, if you have time, could you check out my thread and tell me what you think about some of my blood work and some responses I've received from another member?

Here's the link:
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/58574-baseline-test-results.html

 

[pmgamer18]

I don't know what to say it does not block Estradion but converts it into good E's that the liver have get rid of. I don't think ones Estrogen goes down on it. Hell checking total E's is a waste time in a man.
Phil

'

If you been a drinker for 20 years your gluthione levels are in the dumper and sam-e levels are drained. your folate/b-12 metabolsm been altered and also homocysteine levels are through the roof most likely. Your estrogen metabolism is altered and your natural flora is wiped out of your intestinal tract. So replenish the good flora will helps enhance the estrogen metabolism which the DIM is actually supporting when probably the real cause would be decreased conjugation that is occuring in the liver due to dybosis of the bowel. So people with estrogen metabolism by reestablish the good balance in the gut could possible allevaite alot of poor estrogen metabolism. As for fatty liver sam-e is needed to make phosphodyl chloine which is need to support proper fat metabolism, as well as 100's of methylation reaction in the body Your neurochemistry is also probably altered meaning your zinc, b-6, magnesium deficeint, gaba and serotnin levels are in the toilet. Your ability to make P5P is reduce which is also meeded for metabolism of estrogen. As for fatty liver you need biotin, r ALA, carnitine, milk thistle . As for serum test for liver function useless unless you are off the charts. One can have normal liver enzyme and still have a non functoining liver. Have dr do a functioinal liver detoxifcation and see how well you liver fends from caffine, aspir, and advil then you will see how well your liver is really working. I dealt with this BS saying your liver is fine and when I demanded to have the test liver functionality test ran the dr was singing a differnt tune. We know our bodies better then most drs and if something is wrong we know it. Aftr 20 years of intoxifcation I highly suggest to have it done to see how well your liver is functioning.
If a person is 24 estrodial on TRT and the blood work was drawn with out taking the cream first before the blood test. then if the creme was applied and then 2-3 hours blood was drawn would there be a good chance of the estrodial being increased susbstanially?

Phil here is something that puzzles me if DIM does not lower estrodial then why are people experiencing low estrogen symptoms even though there estrodial levels may not have changed. Or is it just a psychosomatic response?

 

[pmgamer18]

It depends if your E2 test came back with a range of <20 to 50 and your levels were 24 I feel this was a good reading but if it said your level was <20 you have no idea how far below 20 you are.
Phil

EAse up on the fish oils your liver has alreqady endured enough lipid perioxadtion as is and excesive fish oils are going to add insult to it. You should be thinking about focusing a 1-2 TBSP of EVO (extra virgin olive oil) reason being EVO will help your antioxident reserve and will cut back in the oxidative stress endured by the liver. Reason they got you on anti depressants is if they would check your Amino acid sequence your b-12/ folate are probably not being metabolized properly in the brain. Alcohol distrupts blood brain barrier as well as altered glucose metabolism occurs. Your dr could prescribe cerefolin which is a prescribed supplement that will help torebuild your sam-e levels much better then TMG. TMG is only one pathway, methione synthase is the other (methyl b-12, folininc acid). I going to help my girl with her disertation for drs and it going to focus on why antidepressants would be a thing of the past. For some they are a must but 60-70% of the time people do not need them and simple balacing of the liver, proper EFA ratio, rebuild the cell membrane stability, finding out what you are lacking (minerals, amino, vitamins, ect) is all that would be needed in order to over depression. For now actually you need GLA equal to that of amount of fish oils and then you should see a rapid response in alot of symtpoms MAINLY DEPRESSION. Not getting into alot of detail by specific enzyme in fat conversions are altered in alocoholic liver and GLA will over ride this pathway and make a huge differnce in production of PGE-1 AKA your Morning wood problems and test levels, also help in metabolism of glucose. in order to really understand your self biological think of your system of an autistic child and that of a prediabetic to give you an indication of what needs to be addressed. That is why I do evasive testing with clients to look for the imbalances or road blocks that go hidden by traditional medicine. The reason I like this board is because there is alot of medical information backed by sound medical advise or scientific date vs other lame boards.

points to take home
Ease up on fish oils cut back 1/2 to 3/4 (too much a good thing is a bad things especially your antioxident reserve are down)
Add in GLA (evening primose oil) GLA: DHA/EPA 1:1 ratio
excessive R- ALA at 800 mgs with no biotin with bring kreb cycle to grinding halt. If you are using that mush 10 mgs biotin would off set this from happening.

Vitamin E is good but 800 ius mixed tocepherols would be better in your case

Ask dr about cerefolin - This is one of the most underacted drugs that will when med community pulls wakes up and smells the coffee, could be the biggest preventor of diabetes, stroke, depression, and other age related problems


Phil or DR john. So let me get this right when I goto the lab to get blood drawn and they mark off estrodial only and do not specify male sensitive essay that i am getting the wrong test results so all this time I have been getting the wrong information and diagnosis from trained medical experts.

 

[pmgamer18]

I'm very curious about this. I myself have trouble ejaculating during sex and have not beenable to. My girlfriend and I can have sex for and hour and she can try to finish me off but for some reason I can only bust when I do it. Might this have any relation to what you're talking about?

I had this problem for yrs. but for me it was high E2 if you have been like this all your life then you have a different problem. When I got me E2 down my ED went away and I was able you have an orgasm for the first time in 10 yrs. I don't care what anyone tells me I know it was high E2.
Phil

 

[hardasnails1973]

It depends if your E2 test came back with a range of <20 to 50 and your levels were 24 I feel this was a good reading but if it said your level was <20 you have no idea how far below 20 you are.
Phil

24 estrodial (Not male sensitive essay either)was even with out putting the gel on before the blood drawn so putting the cream on would most likely increase it i would imagine.does that make sense?

 

[TheCSWFighter]

I had this problem for yrs. but for me it was high E2 if you have been like this all your life then you have a different problem. When I got me E2 down my ED went away and I was able you have an orgasm for the first time in 10 yrs. I don't care what anyone tells me I know it was high E2.
Phil

No I have not been like this all my life. It's been occuring in the past 2 years. It's kind of almost like I lost somewhat of the sensation to. My orgasms arn't nearly as good as they were 2 years. I used to have a problem walking around and getting an erection from just seeing someone dressed scantily and my imagination would run wild.

Or just about anything would give me an erection and morning wood was an almost everyday thing. About 2 years ago the sensation began to decline gradually as well as the ability to ejaculate during any kind of sex.

I thought maybe it was just a wierd moment the first few times and here I am and nothing has changed. I have only done one prohormone cycle and it was 4 years ago. Post-cycle was clomid and nolva and I was running 1-t, 4-ad TD.

I'm hoping this is a phase if anything

 

[TheCSWFighter]

Actually come to think of it. Everything started to go downhill when my doctor put me on zoloft at 100 mg a day. I've been off of it for 6 months now. I remember ED was listed as a possible side effect from zoloft. I had a gradual decrease in sexual desire and erection hardness. I hope this isn't beyond repair...:wtf:

 

[pmgamer18]

When I first got sick 23 yrs. ago I was told after much testing but none on Testosterone. That I am suffering from Major Depression and because I was on sick leave from work had to go along with this crap. I was on every kind of AD drug out there that would make me hard as a rock but could not reach an orgasm of both ED and loss of libido. After 5 yrs. of this crap I was found to have low T went into a Drug Re-Hab Hosp. to get off all the AD drugs they had me on. Then started on TRT. My first test was for TT at 120 yet I could get it up and have sex with orgasms.

You need to have a full panel of tests done go to Dr. Johh's site at AllThingsMale.com and Read TRT: A Recipe for Success in this are tests you need and why. Then post them here. Like I said I lost my sex life for 10 yrs. on TRT due to very high E2 levels so get tested. I am 62 and now have sex drive like I was in my 20's to bad the wife has a sex drive of a 60 yr. old women and could care less.
Phil

Actually come to think of it. Everything started to go downhill when my doctor put me on zoloft at 100 mg a day. I've been off of it for 6 months now. I remember ED was listed as a possible side effect from zoloft. I had a gradual decrease in sexual desire and erection hardness. I hope this isn't beyond repair...:wtf:

 

[hardasnails1973]

Yep i was in same boat testosterone 40 ng/dl and estrogen or cortisol was never even checked, but I got offered paxil instead of proper further testing. Hand it out like ti was Peds or something. Still to this day drs only base your depression symptoms based upon symptoms and no actual test. One of my freinds joints where hurting him and feeling down from mother passing away. Dr was like "oh acky joints, you seem down here is some paxil." Thats the last thing you say to My freind 260 lb bodybuilder freak that because your joint aches your depresed. He was ready to strangle the guy. i'm seeking legal action against mine. I can in told him i at sushi was not feeling well bloated, un explained anxiety, idiot handed me paxil instead with totally ignored the fact i had food poisining.

Prgmmer is standrd estrodiol test same as the estrodial male sensitive essay test or they 2 different monsters

 

[pmgamer18]

Best to get a test like this.
Estradiol, Sensitive
Quest has this test to. You need to stay with the same lab my labs E2 goes down to 20 so we send my E2 to Quest.
If you had a test that said 24 and the range was <20 to 50 of something like that then your E2 was 24 the test was for a man just not a sensitive essay that goes down lower.
Phil

Yep i was in same boat testosterone 40 ng/dl and estrogen or cortisol was never even checked, but I got offered paxil instead of proper further testing. Hand it out like ti was Peds or something. Still to this day drs only base your depression symptoms based upon symptoms and no actual test. One of my freinds joints where hurting him and feeling down from mother passing away. Dr was like "oh acky joints, you seem down here is some paxil." Thats the last thing you say to My freind 260 lb bodybuilder freak that because your joint aches your depresed. He was ready to strangle the guy. i'm seeking legal action against mine. I can in told him i at sushi was not feeling well bloated, un explained anxiety, idiot handed me paxil instead with totally ignored the fact i had food poisining.

Prgmmer is standrd estrodiol test same as the estrodial male sensitive essay test or they 2 different monsters

 

[JanSz]

Best to get a test like this.
Estradiol, Sensitive
Quest has this test to. You need to stay with the same lab my labs E2 goes down to 20 so we send my E2 to Quest.
If you had a test that said 24 and the range was <20 to 50 of something like that then your E2 was 24 the test was for a man just not a sensitive essay that goes down lower.
Phil

On my next blood test I am switching from LabCorp to Quest Diagnostic.
I do that because of the way the Quest diagnostic does the T tests (one of them).
It is going to be a new study to find out what I want from Quest Diagnostics.
If there is somebody who could help with mechanics of ordering for Quest Diagnostics,
I would really appreciate help.
Please make list for a whole, complete blood test, basic, TRT, GH, adrenals, thyroid, sugar
When I go to my doctor I have a list ready, (in proper order, abbreviations, ICD-9 codes and so on).
That way I am, hopefully, a minimal pain in the neck to him, and usually he obliges,
ask the nurse to fill up proper forms, scripts etc, he signs it, it is 1 or 2 minutes of his personal time.
He is happy to get rid of me, I am happy I got what I want.
What I want is an script plus filled order form, at least that how it worked for LabCorp.
Long time ago I stopped with a practice of letting the doctor's nurse take my blood.
Too little control, end results of poor quality, repeated blood draws, hard to get my copy of results,
when I finally get it, it is 5th generation unreadable xerox, etc, confusion, bad blood.

Not sure what I want to order at Quest Diagnostics when I want E2.
Here is a list of tests that Quest D. does
---http://www.questdiagnostics.com/hcp/intguide/jsp/showintguidepage.jsp?fn=hcp_ig_testnames_Endocrinology.htm

They have 3 tests for estradiol.

• Estradiol, Bioavailable
• Estradiol, Free
• Estradiol, Serum
Looks like it is going to be the last one, the
Estradiol, Serum (E2; Estradiol-17 Beta)

The range they have (10-50) look also similar.
It is all on page 64 of
---http://www.questdiagnostics.com/hcp/intguide/EndoMetab/EndoManual_3rdEd_2004.pdf
===================================
But look at pages 62 & 63 upper right.
SHBG, more than 95% of circulating estrogens, including estradiol, are bounded by SHBG.
===================================
We should talk more about SHBG.
Also Estradiol-17 Beta, IIRC there are two of them, right and left.
Would we be better of if we knew how much of each one we have?
ll

 

[cajunbam]

EAse up on the fish oils your liver has alreqady endured enough lipid perioxadtion as is and excesive fish oils are going to add insult to it. You should be thinking about focusing a 1-2 TBSP of EVO (extra virgin olive oil) reason being EVO will help your antioxident reserve and will cut back in the oxidative stress endured by the liver. Reason they got you on anti depressants is if they would check your Amino acid sequence your b-12/ folate are probably not being metabolized properly in the brain. Alcohol distrupts blood brain barrier as well as altered glucose metabolism occurs. Your dr could prescribe cerefolin which is a prescribed supplement that will help torebuild your sam-e levels much better then TMG. TMG is only one pathway, methione synthase is the other (methyl b-12, folininc acid). I going to help my girl with her disertation for drs and it going to focus on why antidepressants would be a thing of the past. For some they are a must but 60-70% of the time people do not need them and simple balacing of the liver, proper EFA ratio, rebuild the cell membrane stability, finding out what you are lacking (minerals, amino, vitamins, ect) is all that would be needed in order to over depression. For now actually you need GLA equal to that of amount of fish oils and then you should see a rapid response in alot of symtpoms MAINLY DEPRESSION. Not getting into alot of detail by specific enzyme in fat conversions are altered in alocoholic liver and GLA will over ride this pathway and make a huge differnce in production of PGE-1 AKA your Morning wood problems and test levels, also help in metabolism of glucose. in order to really understand your self biological think of your system of an autistic child and that of a prediabetic to give you an indication of what needs to be addressed. That is why I do evasive testing with clients to look for the imbalances or road blocks that go hidden by traditional medicine. The reason I like this board is because there is alot of medical information backed by sound medical advise or scientific date vs other lame boards.

points to take home
Ease up on fish oils cut back 1/2 to 3/4 (too much a good thing is a bad things especially your antioxident reserve are down)
Add in GLA (evening primose oil) GLA: DHA/EPA 1:1 ratio
excessive R- ALA at 800 mgs with no biotin with bring kreb cycle to grinding halt. If you are using that mush 10 mgs biotin would off set this from happening.

Vitamin E is good but 800 ius mixed tocepherols would be better in your case

Ask dr about cerefolin - This is one of the most underacted drugs that will when med community pulls wakes up and smells the coffee, could be the biggest preventor of diabetes, stroke, depression, and other age related problems


Phil or DR john. So let me get this right when I goto the lab to get blood drawn and they mark off estrodial only and do not specify male sensitive essay that i am getting the wrong test results so all this time I have been getting the wrong information and diagnosis from trained medical experts.

Instead of cerefolin, what about the metafolin here:
METAFOLIN The naturally occurring predominant form of folate


Thx,
brian

 

[dynomite]

thank you to everyone in this thread.

I did a few M1T cycles a couple of years ago with out any test along with it. my libido NEVER fully recovered and I always thought i hurt my myself and now had low test. I got tested many times and every time the Dr said I was normal. I knew I wasnt. Now I figure it must be my E2. I tried some
I3C one time and this seemed to help me out. So it must be my E2! Geeze I am glad I read this thread.

what do you thnik about this product. It seemed to help me but i thought it was because it was somehow raising my T levels. Dual-Action Cruciferous Vegetable Extract With Cat's Claw, 60 Vegetarian Capsules

 

[dynomite]

also dr john, do you have a liver product that you can recommend.

 

[ItsHectic]

also dr john, do you have a liver product that you can recommend.

Milk Thistle Powder (80%) (125 gm) By NutraPlanet
N-Acetyl-Cysteine (NAC) (100 grams) By NutraPlanet
Pro Liver (90 caps) By PrimaForce

Milk thistle and NAC are common suppliments for liver health.