Minimum amount of carbs when using nutrient partitioners?

[Lee85]

I'm in a cut at the moment, it's an 8 week challenge with just over a week left. My carbs are very low, only 120g of rice with my post workout meal. After the challenge I'm probably going to reverse diet out of it and slowly up my calories. So I'm just wondering what the minimum amount of carbs is for using nutrient partitioners without any problems or side effects?

 

[double s]

Definitely do some fact checking but I believe meals containing at least 50 gms..

 

[ma70]

It honestly depends on your ability to handle carbs and whatnot, but a safe recommendation would be at least 25-50g carb.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Alex Kikel just discussed this, his minimum was 30g IIRC (He also got about 100 of his clients to use Glucometers and test stuff - Cinnamon did really well). But anyway - After training? Your muscles are so insulin sensitive after resistance training, and I *want* that awesome anabolic hormone then too - GDA after training seems counter-productive.

 

[LeanEngineer]

I'm in a cut at the moment, it's an 8 week challenge with just over a week left. My carbs are very low, only 120g of rice with my post workout meal. After the challenge I'm probably going to reverse diet out of it and slowly up my calories. So I'm just wondering what the minimum amount of carbs is for using nutrient partitioners without any problems or side effects?

I think it will definitely depend on the person and vary from person to person so its hard to give an exact answer but what they have said above sounds about right.

 

[enraged_chris]

Alex Kikel just discussed this, his minimum was 30g IIRC (He also got about 100 of his clients to use Glucometers and test stuff - Cinnamon did really well). But anyway - After training? Your muscles are so insulin sensitive after resistance training, and I *want* that awesome anabolic hormone then too - GDA after training seems counter-productive.

Certain gda ingredients can actually enhance that post workout anabolic effect but moving more glut4 receptors to the muscle belly.

 

[AntM1564]

The label of different products will tell you how to dose. Depending on the ingredients, 1 or 2 caps will be the case. I can't speak for other products but SlinMax we suggest two caps with 50+ carbs and one cap with anything under 30 grams.

 

[Tylerclee]

Certain gda ingredients can actually enhance that post workout anabolic effect but moving more glut4 receptors to the muscle belly.

Certain GDA ingredients also have a negative impact on muscle protein synthesis. Post workout is probably the most important time for mps, so I don't wanna play with them there.

 

[cheftepesh1]

Depends some state 30 some are higher. It's all depends on which one you use.

 

[NoAddedHmones]

Certain gda ingredients can actually enhance that post workout anabolic effect but moving more glut4 receptors to the muscle belly.

Which ingredients?

 

[mmorso]

Alex Kikel just discussed this, his minimum was 30g IIRC (He also got about 100 of his clients to use Glucometers and test stuff - Cinnamon did really well). But anyway - After training? Your muscles are so insulin sensitive after resistance training, and I *want* that awesome anabolic hormone then too - GDA after training seems counter-productive.

Huh... My understanding of nutrient partitioners and GDAs has been all wrong. I thought they made nutrient delivery to muscle mass more efficient and favorable to fat storage, basically exploiting the anabolic benefit of having an insulin spike.. so do they simply lower insulin levels?

 

[Jiigzz]

Certain gda ingredients can actually enhance that post workout anabolic effect but moving more glut4 receptors to the muscle belly.

Exercise does this perfectly well on its own

 

[Jiigzz]

Huh... My understanding of nutrient partitioners and GDAs has been all wrong. I thought they made nutrient delivery to muscle mass more efficient and favorable to fat storage, basically exploiting the anabolic benefit of having an insulin spike.. so do they simply lower insulin levels?

Exercise is a potent glut4 translocator and so the need for a GDA during this time is reduced. I prefer GDAs in a cut and during refeeds

 

[john.patterson]

Huh... My understanding of nutrient partitioners and GDAs has been all wrong. I thought they made nutrient delivery to muscle mass more efficient and favorable to fat storage, basically exploiting the anabolic benefit of having an insulin spike.. so do they simply lower insulin levels?

I wouldn't say you were all wrong. GDA's can help glucose uptake nutrients and insulin sensitivity. After a workout, your muscles are very insulin sensitive and they are primed to uptake nutrients, so a GDA isn't necessary at this time. An insulin spike post workout is a good thing, as insulin (at the right time) is very anabolic.

I would recommending using a GDA at other times during the day to help control insulin levels and improve nutrient uptake. Ingredients like berberine, Na-R-Ala, and agmatine can help your body utilize nutrients better which can help you to stay leaner while eating more carbs. My protocol with dosing has always been (2) caps of Slinmax for 50g+ of carbs, which is typically breakfast and preworkout. I will also use (1) cap at dinner which is 30-40g carbs

 

[Daycrawler]

Personally 50. You'll know for yourself though if you have too little and take a GDA. You feel like ****

 

[cubsfan815]

Personally 50. You'll know for yourself though if you have too little and take a GDA. You feel like ****

This is for sure!

SlinMax is strong, I once made the mistake of taking 2 caps too early before lunch. Then had a meeting delay my lunch by another 30 mins. I went pretty hypo feeling. The only cool part was after lunch it felt like I could feel instant relief and full body pump lol.

 

[criticalbench]

You really shouldn't be going hypo with a gda. Hell, even metformin doesn't cause hypo issues. It is not even given to patients around meal time in the hospital and I am not talking about the extended release version. Most people use Metformin in contest preps on zero carbs for periods of time.

I wouldn't think twice about the carb amount. Just use whatever amount your diet calls for.

 

[cubsfan815]

You really shouldn't be going hypo with a gda. Hell, even metformin doesn't cause hypo issues. It is not even given to patients around meal time in the hospital and I am not talking about the extended release version. Most people use Metformin in contest preps on zero carbs for periods of time.

I wouldn't think twice about the carb amount. Just use whatever amount your diet calls for.

Maybe hypo was a bit exaggerated, since I'm not in medical field lol. I just became very shaky, and out of it feeling. I had nothad any food all morning at that time then took 2 caps. It was probably a combination of everything combined. I have gone through 4 bottles of SlinMax and that was 1 time thing. I just wantef to show that wereally recommend over 50g of carbs at 2 caps since the formula is potent.

 

[AntM1564]

You really shouldn't be going hypo with a gda. Hell, even metformin doesn't cause hypo issues. It is not even given to patients around meal time in the hospital and I am not talking about the extended release version. Most people use Metformin in contest preps on zero carbs for periods of time.

I wouldn't think twice about the carb amount. Just use whatever amount your diet calls for.

I agree. I have used many GDA and bulk ingredients. I have taken them up to an hour before eating and never felt any signs of going hypo.

 

[ma70]

I agree. I have used many GDA and bulk ingredients. I have taken them up to an hour before eating and never felt any signs of going hypo.

Glad someone else feels this way. I've never gotten anything like a "hypo" feeling taking some of the "strong" GDAs and I always figured I was a special snowflake.

 

[cubsfan815]

Just noticed my cell phone butchered my response above lmao. I was not drunk at 6am

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Huh... My understanding of nutrient partitioners and GDAs has been all wrong. I thought they made nutrient delivery to muscle mass more efficient and favorable to fat storage, basically exploiting the anabolic benefit of having an insulin spike.. so do they simply lower insulin levels?

Back in the day (still?), they used to be called "Insulin Mimickers". *They* do the "pushing", and supposedly favor lean tissue - Insulin is indiscriminate. But I'm not big on GDAs, so not a ton of in depth knowledge here. I like the way Cinnamon tastes, and believe Apple Cider Vinegar does other healthy things - so that's the extent of my "GDA" use, and I don't use them after training.

 

[enraged_chris]

There are lots of different types of GDAs out there and certain ones will do better in a workout window, and others further away from workouts. Some mimic the effects of insulin, others increase sensitivity of various receptors to insulin. Not all GDAs work on the same pathway. It'd really depend on which specific GDA ingredient you were using when it comes to timing. Berberine I like further away from workouts while others I prefer preworkout with carbs.

 

[NoAddedHmones]

There are lots of different types of GDAs out there and certain ones will do better in a workout window, and others further away from workouts. Some mimic the effects of insulin, others increase sensitivity of various receptors to insulin. Not all GDAs work on the same pathway. It'd really depend on which specific GDA ingredient you were using when it comes to timing. Berberine I like further away from workouts while others I prefer preworkout with carbs.

That didn't answer my question, actually you said the exact same thing which i questioned you on, just in more words this time.

 

[enraged_chris]

That didn't answer my question, actually you said the exact same thing which i questioned you on, just in more words this time.

I didn't see your post before. Nigela Sativa is one herb that has an effect on glut4 receptors.

 

[NoAddedHmones]

I didn't see your post before. Nigela Sativa is one herb that has an effect on glut4 receptors.

mmm can you show me the text you are referring to? I see a study done on diabetic mice where they only looked at liver and muslcle GLUT4 and neglected adipose tissue. And results did even reach statistically significance.

 

[enraged_chris]

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/ecam/2011/538671/ significant effects on glut4, they didn't measure fat tissue.
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/13880200701734810 has some things on adipocytes
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1463-1326.2009.01131.x/full not all the best studies (done on humans double blinded etc) but it's enough to say that there is most likely an effect. And this is just one compound. Do you have some issue with gda's effecting glut4 receptors?

 

[NoAddedHmones]

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/ecam/2011/538671/ significant effects on glut4, they didn't measure fat tissue.
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/13880200701734810 has some things on adipocytes
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1463-1326.2009.01131.x/full not all the best studies (done on humans double blinded etc) but it's enough to say that there is most likely an effect. And this is just one compound. Do you have some issue with gda's effecting glut4 receptors?

No not at all, just your original comment regarding certain ingredients enhancing post workout anabolic effect, I disagree with this compound doing it, as GLUT4 isn't discriminate toward muscle only it will also sensitise on fat cells.

 

[enraged_chris]

No not at all, just your original comment regarding certain ingredients enhancing post workout anabolic effect, I disagree with this compound doing it, as GLUT4 isn't discriminate toward muscle only it will also sensitise on fat cells.

Understandable, I've just personally noticed and seen good effect in combining various GDAs with effects on glut4 receptor and peri-workout nutrition, especially post and intra, while noticing fat loss. Maybe the combination of exercise+gda will keep it shifted more towards striated muscle tissue. Unfortunately I haven't encountered any studies on that.