MassMax XT Ecdysterone

DodgeCharger

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Hello All,

The label of MassMax XT shows that Ecdysterones are one of the main ingredients in the supplement. However, the only HPLC test online for MassMax XT shows that there appears to be little to no real ecdysterone. Could he have a bad sample, bad test, or is there another explanation for this.

I ask because I have used this before and plan to run it again. When I last ran it, I noticed a slight effect, but that could be attributed to a number of things.

Thank you
 
The Express 42

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Not sure about all that but I know there was an explanation and Performax is a solid company. If you’re worried try out some SNS X gels / CEL EpiPlex for some strength and size gains
 
Rad83

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Hey man, I started a thread like this a couple months ago, and it got pretty heated! (Wasn’t my intention & I’m sure you can find it!) ...I’m currently running Test1fy & MassMax and it’s been a solid month of lifting!
 
LeanEngineer

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May have to wait for a performax labs rep to chime in on this. In general i've ran massmax xt multiple times and had good success and positive results from it.
 
muscleupcrohn

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It’s this thread:
https://anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=305289

TL;DR:
New York based company sends California based competitor’s product to be tested at lab in Uzbekistan that happens to sell their own ecdysterone that the first company happens to buy from them for their product. Yeah, clearly nothing wrong with that picture.


If they’d sent it to LITERALLY any other lab in the world it would be infinitely less suspect and have infinitely less conflicts of interest. It’s insulting really.
 

DodgeCharger

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Thanks guys this is what I was looking for.

But it seems that MassMax is still an effective blend of ingredients even if the ecdy was removed completely.

Thank you!
 

Mixelflick

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Hello All,

The label of MassMax XT shows that Ecdysterones are one of the main ingredients in the supplement. However, the only HPLC test online for MassMax XT shows that there appears to be little to no real ecdysterone. Could he have a bad sample, bad test, or is there another explanation for this.

I ask because I have used this before and plan to run it again. When I last ran it, I noticed a slight effect, but that could be attributed to a number of things.

Thank you
I'd rather not get into this lab test result, as it never ends well. What I will say is that Exubol has a very good (inside rep) among people in the business insofar as what's on the label is in the bottle. And while I haven't used it personally, Danes has and next to me the guy has run more Ecdysterone than anyone else I know. And that's saying something, because there's a small circle of us that consider ourselves Ecdy snobs of sorts.

With respect to the compound itself... It's fair to say that it began to show promise in multiple Russian studies. These study findings were then replicated by scientists in Japan and Brazil (Suma is the source genus there). These findings have in turn been substantiated by scientists at Rutgers in the US as well as the University of Szeged in Hungary (which is doing the most exhaustive research currently in the world). They are currently working with "modified" ecdysteroids with greater anabolic potential. Link to their paper here..

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0045206818307697?via=ihub

So although there is a lack of human studies, it's fair to say multiple groups of scientists around the world have found evidence of its potential. In the West, consumers have largely panned it for a number of reasons, including but not limited to..

1.) They fail to realize its an adaptogen, not an anabolic
2.) Inferior products from the source genus Cyanotic Vaga proliferate
3.) There some (actually many) products with ZERO ecdysterone in them and..
4.) Consumers are looking for steroid like effects

So the next step should be human studies, using the gold standard (double blind, placebo etc) done at reputable institutions. Why this hasn't happened sooner is simply due to $. I'd love to do a study on Mass Pro Synthagen or Progenadrex. But I don't have anywhere near enough, and even if I did and it found positive results well, people would scream.. "Yeah, because he paid for it"!

So you see, the likelihood someone with no vested interest will fund such a study is nil. Until then, I'd encourage you to read and learn as much about the chemical as possible. That's a tall order, because we are now up to 510 known Ecdysteroids - http://ecdybase.org/. IMO, they are exceptional tools for health, strength and body composition..
 

aaronuconn

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I'd rather not get into this lab test result, as it never ends well. What I will say is that Exubol has a very good (inside rep) among people in the business insofar as what's on the label is in the bottle. And while I haven't used it personally, Danes has and next to me the guy has run more Ecdysterone than anyone else I know. And that's saying something, because there's a small circle of us that consider ourselves Ecdy snobs of sorts.

With respect to the compound itself... It's fair to say that it began to show promise in multiple Russian studies. These study findings were then replicated by scientists in Japan and Brazil (Suma is the source genus there). These findings have in turn been substantiated by scientists at Rutgers in the US as well as the University of Szeged in Hungary (which is doing the most exhaustive research currently in the world). They are currently working with "modified" ecdysteroids with greater anabolic potential. Link to their paper here..

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0045206818307697?via=ihub

So although there is a lack of human studies, it's fair to say multiple groups of scientists around the world have found evidence of its potential. In the West, consumers have largely panned it for a number of reasons, including but not limited to..

1.) They fail to realize its an adaptogen, not an anabolic
2.) Inferior products from the source genus Cyanotic Vaga proliferate
3.) There some (actually many) products with ZERO ecdysterone in them and..
4.) Consumers are looking for steroid like effects

So the next step should be human studies, using the gold standard (double blind, placebo etc) done at reputable institutions. Why this hasn't happened sooner is simply due to $. I'd love to do a study on Mass Pro Synthagen or Progenadrex. But I don't have anywhere near enough, and even if I did and it found positive results well, people would scream.. "Yeah, because he paid for it"!

So you see, the likelihood someone with no vested interest will fund such a study is nil. Until then, I'd encourage you to read and learn as much about the chemical as possible. That's a tall order, because we are now up to 510 known Ecdysteroids - http://ecdybase.org/. IMO, they are exceptional tools for health, strength and body composition..
What are the premier Ecdy products in your opinion?
 

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Turkesterone appears to be one of the most popular. It’s supposedly the most anabolic, but as Mixelflick said, they aren’t really supposed to be truly anabolic
 
megadeth

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What are the premier Ecdy products in your opinion?
Mass Pro Synthagen

You can replace most of ur supps with this one product. It works better than anything I"ve ever used for recovery.
 
Ricky10

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Mass Pro Synthagen

You can replace most of ur supps with this one product. It works better than anything I"ve ever used for recovery.
Just recovery benefits? Anything else?
 
megadeth

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Just recovery benefits? Anything else?
Better muscle gain, fat loss, more strength & pump. Excellent for dieting and will also help with muscle stiffness for older lifters.

When I first read the ingredients, i thought "meh, I don't see anything special". After searching reviews, I tried it & have become a believer. Stuffs legit.
 
Ricky10

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Better muscle gain, fat loss, more strength & pump. Excellent for dieting and will also help with muscle stiffness for older lifters.

When I first read the ingredients, i thought "meh, I don't see anything special". After searching reviews, I tried it & have become a believer. Stuffs legit.
Cool...thanks!
You certainly are not the first person I have seen with high praise for the product..
 

DodgeCharger

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I’d have to say MassMax is the way to go for a natural supplement. Especially if the ecdy is real
 

aaronuconn

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Did PerformMax ever provide some sort of proof that MassMax does in fact contains what is on the label?
 

Jeremyk1

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Did PerformMax ever provide some sort of proof that MassMax does in fact contains what is on the label?
If you look through the thread linked in post #5 here, they apparently did release lab results. However, they didn’t make it publicly available, but shared it with certain individuals after said individuals signed an NDA. Does seem a little weird, but it sounds like the test was fine.
 
00A

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If you look through the thread linked in post #5 here, they apparently did release lab results. However, they didn’t make it publicly available, but shared it with certain individuals after said individuals signed an NDA. Does seem a little weird, but it sounds like the test was fine.
Lol why they need a NDA i smell bull**** ! Hypocrites - if you saying one person results are bias then so are there results. Wouldnt you want to share results with public and reassure them- better sales.. i will avoid there products - if they not source ecdy from uzbekstan then aint real either
 
Adizzle1

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Lol why they need a NDA i smell bull**** ! Hypocrites - if you saying one person results are bias then so are there results. Wouldnt you want to share results with public and reassure them- better sales.. i will avoid there products - if they not source ecdy from uzbekstan then aint real either
A COMPETITOR who sells Ecdysterone, sent our product half way across the world to a SUPPLIER of Ecdysterone and when it "didn't test out" tried to sell us their material. How does that not sound bias/a way to drum up new business? Almost any lab in the US could test for it and it would have been a 3rd party unbiased source. Wouldn't it been easier to send it somewhere in the US(cheaper in postage) versus sending it to a supplier of the material(quite possibly the ONLY bias source) to test it? None of that smells fishy to you?

Lab results were almost immediately sent to the Admin of AnabolicMinds and also sent to several users on the forum. There are several reasons why posting our lab results to the public would not be in the best interest of our business.
Just an update: I have now personally seen a lab test which clearly shows that MassMax contains Ecdysterone. This will be my last response to this nonsense and anyone that stirs this crap up again in the future will be swiftly banned.
I will no longer comment on this but if you believe a competitor and ecdysterone supplier are completely unbiased in these tests and the Admin of this forum and other users were duped then I do agree you should avoid our products.
 
jameschoi

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A COMPETITOR who sells Ecdysterone, sent our product half way across the world to a SUPPLIER of Ecdysterone and when it "didn't test out" tried to sell us their material. How does that not sound bias/a way to drum up new business? Almost any lab in the US could test for it and it would have been a 3rd party unbiased source. Wouldn't it been easier to send it somewhere in the US(cheaper in postage) versus sending it to a supplier of the material(quite possibly the ONLY bias source) to test it? None of that smells fishy to you?

Lab results were almost immediately sent to the Admin of AnabolicMinds and also sent to several users on the forum. There are several reasons why posting our lab results to the public would not be in the best interest of our business.


I will no longer comment on this but if you believe a competitor and ecdysterone supplier are completely unbiased in these tests and the Admin of this forum and other users were duped then I do agree you should avoid our products.

Performax had a 45% or 50% sale on MassMax a few months ago and they sold out fast. I demand they bring that sale back so I can get the same deal. I demand satisfaction today.....

JK. I missed out on a great sale. Dammmmmmmmmmm
 
Adizzle1

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Performax had a 45% or 50% sale on MassMax a few months ago and they sold out fast. I demand they bring that sale back so I can get the same deal. I demand satisfaction today.....

JK. I missed out on a great sale. Dammmmmmmmmmm
haha its actually one we cant keep in stock, currently sold out! But Im sure we will be doing another aggressive deal soon!
 

DodgeCharger

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I have almost a full bottle left, but I will pick up several more when this happens!
 
00A

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A COMPETITOR who sells Ecdysterone, sent our product half way across the world to a SUPPLIER of Ecdysterone and when it "didn't test out" tried to sell us their material. How does that not sound bias/a way to drum up new business? Almost any lab in the US could test for it and it would have been a 3rd party unbiased source. Wouldn't it been easier to send it somewhere in the US(cheaper in postage) versus sending it to a supplier of the material(quite possibly the ONLY bias source) to test it? None of that smells fishy to you?

Lab results were almost immediately sent to the Admin of AnabolicMinds and also sent to several users on the forum. There are several reasons why posting our lab results to the public would not be in the best interest of our business.


I will no longer comment on this but if you believe a competitor and ecdysterone supplier are completely unbiased in these tests and the Admin of this forum and other users were duped then I do agree you should avoid our products.
Where do you source your Ecdy from? Maybe your right but competitor did not send just mass max to lab he sent many products- you can see results on there site forums.. it would be bizzare to fake all this and bad for business for all parties..
 
Adizzle1

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Where do you source your Ecdy from? Maybe your right but competitor did not send just mass max to lab he sent many products- you can see results on there site forums.. it would be bizzare to fake all this and bad for business for all parties..
Not bad business when every ingredient there testing for is also an ingredient they supply and sell, ever wondered why there testing for those specific materials?
 

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Not bad business when every ingredient there testing for is also an ingredient they supply and sell, ever wondered why there testing for those specific materials?
The lab tested Performax MassMax because of the product write up, that claimed :
"MassMaxXTcontains an HPLC extract of Rhaponticum Carthamoides, which consists of a wide range of ecdysteroids and is standardized to 40% ecdysterone".
That claim was on your website, but the label doesn't mention the standardization, so we decided to ask ICPS to test it.
Could we purchase whatever $20/kg Rhaponticum powder on Alibaba and claim 98% standardization? Sure thing. But instead of investing in write ups and marketing, we invested in quality ingredients and testing. It was done to educate the audience and I see people ask questions- it's good for the supp industry.
 
muscleupcrohn

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The lab tested Performax MassMax because of the product write up, that claimed :
"MassMaxXTcontains an HPLC extract of Rhaponticum Carthamoides, which consists of a wide range of ecdysteroids and is standardized to 40% ecdysterone".
That claim was on your website, but the label doesn't mention the standardization, so we decided to ask ICPS to test it.
Could we purchase whatever $20/kg Rhaponticum powder on Alibaba and claim 98% standardization? Sure thing. But instead of investing in write ups and marketing, we invested in quality ingredients and testing. It was done to educate the audience and I see people ask questions- it's good for the supp industry.
I’ll quote Ari’s response since you’re saying the same exact thing as last time when he originally posted said comments:
baxmax - unsure why you keep posting things and then deleting them, but for the record we don't protect sponsors. If we did, this thread would have been deleted already. We also don't put up with BS from competing companies (ESPECIALLY ones that still try to advertise here even though they are not sponsors any longer). Your account can remain active here, but if all you're going to do is come here and try to stir up trouble then you're getting banned.
Just an update: I have now personally seen a lab test which clearly shows that MassMax contains Ecdysterone. This will be my last response to this nonsense and anyone that stirs this crap up again in the future will be swiftly banned.
 

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I’ll quote Ari’s response since you’re saying the same exact thing as last time when he originally posted said comments:
I don't care if you tested your product, the only thing I care about is the reputation of the testing we did hence our reputation.
I wanna challenge you, how about we send a bottle of your MassMax to an American testing lab, I pay for the testing, if the test come back proving it contains less than FIVE % (not even 40% u claimed, just 5%) of ecdysterone, you reimburse my expenses.
It's either YES or you stop this conspiracy theory and drama.

Not afraid of getting banned BTW.
 
jameschoi

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The only way to end this is to have the solution test both products. Winner sends me a million bucks :dance:
 
muscleupcrohn

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And your products don’t list standardization on the label either, so if that was what aroused your suspicion, you may want to look in a mirror.
IMG_1932.JPG

IMG_1933.JPG
 
muscleupcrohn

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I’m stirring up drama by pointing out several glaring conflicts of interest while you contribute literally nothing to these forums except this sort of thread, claiming you’re not afraid of being banned, but yeah, I’m the one stirring drama. You must have an amazing view from that glass house of yours.
 

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And your products don’t list standardization on the label either, so if that was what aroused your suspicion, you may want to look in a mirror.
View attachment 178812
View attachment 178813
Thanks for posting the pics:)
1) That info is on the boxes.
2) Exubol 200 has it printed on the label.
I said, the testing was done because of the claims you made on the site, NOT BECAUSE OF THE INGREDIENT ITSELF. The claim was 40% of ecdy. You got tested. Are u accepting the challenge or not?:)
 
muscleupcrohn

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Thanks for posting the pics:)
1) That info is on the boxes.
2) Exubol 200 has it printed on the label.
I said, the testing was done because of the claims you made on the site, NOT BECAUSE OF THE INGREDIENT ITSELF. The claim was 40% of ecdy. You got tested. Are u accepting the challenge or not?:)
Why are you setting the bar at 5% ecdysterone? Didn’t your supposed industry-leading testing last time have literally no detectable levels of ecdysterone? Do you not trust those lab tests?
 

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Why I raised the bar that high? I expect you guys found a new supplier. It's been a while since we tested it, unless you keep selling that batch.


Why are you setting the bar at 5% ecdysterone? Didn’t your supposed industry-leading testing last time have literally no detectable levels of ecdysterone? Do you not trust those lab tests?
 
00A

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Lets not ban anyone * these discussion are intresting
 
muscleupcrohn

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Lets not ban anyone * these discussion are intresting
Going in circles saying the same thing is interesting? Having a user who, at this point, contributes literally nothing to the forum except bashing other companies is interesting?
 

ironkill

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Why are you setting the bar at 5% ecdysterone? Didn’t your supposed industry-leading testing last time have literally no detectable levels of ecdysterone? Do you not trust those lab tests?
Where is this testing found?
 

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I’ll quote Ari’s response since you’re saying the same exact thing as last time when he originally posted said comments:
Okay. Cool. If multiple people (I’m assuming y’all selected reputable members) can attest to seeing proof, then that works for me.
 
muscleupcrohn

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Okay. Cool. If multiple people (I’m assuming y’all selected reputable members) can attest to seeing proof, then that works for me.
He’s the admin, so pretty reputable haha.
 

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If the lab results won’t be released public and a few people on the INTERNET had to sign NDAs<——-lmao, then it’s safe to assume that you shouldn’t spend your hard earned money on this product if your looking for ecdysterones.
 
00A

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If the lab results won’t be released public and a few people on the INTERNET had to sign NDAs<——-lmao, then it’s safe to assume that you shouldn’t spend your hard earned money on this product if your looking for ecdysterones.
Exactly, no matter what the fanboys reps say my mind is set. Can see some ppl want to start arguements when if all was ok then why hide it with NDA
 
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Reposting some responses:
The product tested within the above referenced study was launched on April 14th 2014 and discontinued May 2nd 2015 for several reasons including a clumping issue. This presents some major issues and oversights from this study considering the material was manufactured well over 3 years ago and very likely expired. Moreover, then just being expired, the tested material would have resembled a wet, clumped up paste rather then actual powder. With such a major oversight of testing for ingredient potency in far expired product, it brings into question the results of this study. Obviously, we cannot guarantee product potency on expired product. Per FDA guidelines a reserve sample is held for 1 year past the expiration date, however in this case, it’s already been far past that and any reserve samples of this material is no longer available. We are taking these results seriously however we do believe the above points presents large oversights and major issues with the results of this study. We are a company that strives for quality and innovation and currently work with 2 NSF and cGMP facilities for manufacturing, always aiming to do right by the customer. In this case, there is very little investigation we can implement as the product is so old, however if there are any customers who have this version and would like a replacement or refund we would be happy to offer that.
As we originally stated we are taking these results very seriously and investigating this issue. However, to test a product manufactured in 2014-2015, that is now 1-2 years expired and use that to state label claims are not met, is not accurate and a major oversight from this ‘study’
.
Vitamins and Nutraceuticals alike undergo natural degradation over time, and this degradation is exacerbated by oxygen, heat and moisture. The product was discontinued in 2015, over 3 years ago, in part due to major clumping issues from the hygroscopic nature of the product. The material tested was not only expired but very likely a ‘paste’ at the time of testing. As we originally stated, there is no way we can guarantee product potency on expired products which is exactly why we have expiration dates in the first place!

Furthermore, there is no lot # listed and no testing procedures listed. Under ‘Analytical Data’ within this study where there should be a link to the 'Analytical Methods and Validation' of the testing, the link does not exist and just links back to the study itself. With this limited information; no lot number to reference, no testing methods or validation described and testing for ingredient potency on an expired product discontinued over 3 years ago, we are left with very little information to investigate. What we do know is this product could have been manufactured by 3 different manufactures, 2 of which are now out of business and we are still investigating. At this time our final and last statement on this issue is we are offering full refund to anyone who would like to return this product and we are continuing our internal investigation to get to the root cause of this issue.

As for the MassMax that was brought up, concerning a competitor who sells a Ecdysterone product, sending MassMax to a major supplier of Ecdysterone to be tested; We have sent the Lab results testing for Ecdysterone via HPLC to multiple users of the forum including the Admin himself, his response to those lab results below:
 
mbonheur

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Reposting some responses:
Funnily enough, you are one of the most challenging users here, always trying to seek the truth, but if your company is concerned you clearly do not have the same approach. I cannot believe that you are sincerely satisfied with those answers.

Anyways, I am not here to start a discussion as I already made up my mind, knowing the purchasing prices of high quality raw materials and tested several products by this company.
 
muscleupcrohn

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Funnily enough, you are one of the most challenging users here, always trying to seek the truth, but if your company is concerned you clearly do not have the same approach. I cannot believe that you are sincerely satisfied with those answers.

Anyways, I am not here to start a discussion as I already made up my mind, knowing the purchasing prices of high quality raw materials and tested several products by this company.
Said product was released AND discontinued before I had anything to do with the company at all, so I can’t possibly speak about it really. Why a study would test expired product is beyond me really. The product was expired AND voluntarily discontinued and replaced with a new formula for reasons discussed already.

And you’ve tested the products on your own?
 
GQdaLEGEND

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Unsure about the whole topic .. def interesting

Ive ran the product before and i loved my run and then stacked it with Xgels and loved it more lol
 

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