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M-Sten or DMZ?

Swolbraham said:
has anyone every "jump started" a halo cycle?

like msten 10/10/00/00/00/00
halo 50/75/75/75/75/75
stano 800/800/800/800/800/800

or even dmz at 30 instead of the msten
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I jump started my Epi cycle.
But I did msten for two weeks at 24mg.
 
Yodambomb said:
Did yiu take plenty of vitamins ? Cycle supps
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I was up to a 1.5g of both Hawthorne berry and celery seed extract, 9g of fish oil, 750mg of TUDCA, 1.2g of NAC and even some potassium nitrate, nothing helped it. I just won't be using DMZ ever again and will probably avoid SD and Msten as well.
 
Tagger said:
I jump started my Epi cycle.
But I did msten for two weeks at 24mg.
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Do you think it worked out well? I might msten at 10 for two weeks to kick start my reverse diet then do halo for 75 at 6 weeks. Haven't decided if j wanna wait.

What was your experience doing that, more gains, sides, etc?
 
infraredline said:
I was up to a 1.5g of both Hawthorne berry and celery seed extract, 9g of fish oil, 750mg of TUDCA, 1.2g of NAC and even some potassium nitrate, nothing helped it. I just won't be using DMZ ever again and will probably avoid SD and Msten as well.
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And were these BP tests from the open pharmacy or from the doctors cuff at his office ? .. That's where I went because the pharmacy ones were telling me that I was screwed as well and then I went to my doctor and my BP was at 134/74 which is fine .. But I should check mine because I finished pct like 2 weeks ago .
 
Swolbraham said:
Do you think it worked out well? I might msten at 10 for two weeks to kick start my reverse diet then do halo for 75 at 6 weeks. Haven't decided if j wanna wait.

What was your experience doing that, more gains, sides, etc?
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It was awesome for strength gainz at 24mg.
 
Yodambomb said:
And were these BP tests from the open pharmacy or from the doctors cuff at his office ? .. That's where I went because the pharmacy ones were telling me that I was screwed as well and then I went to my doctor and my BP was at 134/74 which is fine .. But I should check mine because I finished pct like 2 weeks ago .
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The docs office, those cuffs in the pharmacy suck a**. It came back 180/100 in the doctors office. Mine is normally 100/75
 
Brand is also key. They are not all equal.

LGI has been the best brand I've used consistently.

Transform was awesome as well.

StenZine from IronFlex did well also.
 
fueledpassion said:
Brand is also key. They are not all equal. LGI has been the best brand I've used consistently. Transform was awesome as well. StenZine from IronFlex did well also.
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Is DMZ actually bad for yiu or no ? I know that there all not that good for you but others are worse than others . I just have a home monitor cuff to check my BP a couple times a day .., I didn't wanna be that overly peranoid at the time .
 
Yodambomb said:
Is DMZ actually bad for yiu or no ? I know that there all not that good for you but others are worse than others . I just have a home monitor cuff to check my BP a couple times a day .., I didn't wanna be that overly peranoid at the time .
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DMZ might cause BP issues, but so will hdrol, dienolone, epi, msten and trendione.

DMZ in my opinion is SD fixed. A second Gen SD. While they probably act totally different in the body, DMZ kept the good things about SD and left the rest out.

SD = both wet and dry gains, stirs up gyno, strength is nuts, hard on the testicles, kills sex drive, increased aggression and stamina, very harsh on liver and lipids.

DMZ = dry gains only, no aromatizing effect, strength is also nuts, not as hard on testicles, not as harsh on liver, increase in stamina, aggression and mood.

Both deliver lethargy after a while though.
 
fueledpassion said:
DMZ might cause BP issues, but so will hdrol, dienolone, epi, msten and trendione.

DMZ in my opinion is SD fixed. A second Gen SD. While they probably act totally different in the body, DMZ kept the good things about SD and left the rest out.

SD = both wet and dry gains, stirs up gyno, strength is nuts, hard on the testicles, kills sex drive, increased aggression and stamina, very harsh on liver and lipids.

DMZ = dry gains only, no aromatizing effect, strength is also nuts, not as hard on testicles, not as harsh on liver, increase in stamina, aggression and mood.

Both deliver lethargy after a while though.
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Msten was good on my BP.

But I'm excited to run DMZ later on. :)
 
fueledpassion said:
DMZ might cause BP issues, but so will hdrol, dienolone, epi, msten and trendione. DMZ in my opinion is SD fixed. A second Gen SD. While they probably act totally different in the body, DMZ kept the good things about SD and left the rest out. SD = both wet and dry gains, stirs up gyno, strength is nuts, hard on the testicles, kills sex drive, increased aggression and stamina, very harsh on liver and lipids. DMZ = dry gains only, no aromatizing effect, strength is also nuts, not as hard on testicles, not as harsh on liver, increase in stamina, aggression and mood. Both deliver lethargy after a while though.
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Yeah I did good on DMZ .., just making sure tho :)
 
Not sure what option you decided to go with or if you have yet but in my opinion if you looking for size gains then DMZ, you want strength but less size then go with the MSten. As far as toxicity I believe mg for mg most would say that DMZ is less toxic than MSten but that is via anecdotal feedback not any sort of testing.
 
MrKleen73 said:
Not sure what option you decided to go with or if you have yet but in my opinion if you looking for size gains then DMZ, you want strength but less size then go with the MSten. As far as toxicity I believe mg for mg most would say that DMZ is less toxic than MSten but that is via anecdotal feedback not any sort of testing.
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Never heard of anyone that ran MSten at 45-60
 
Yodambomb said:
Never heard of anyone that ran MSten at 45-60
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Right, which is why anecdotally we'd imply that DMZ is less toxic. But seriously, I've heard of folks doing 30mg of each. So I can imagine 45mg of MSTEN is viable.

Heck, there are some folks who ran SD @ 30-40mg but I don't recommend that.

But I think less for longer would be better though unless 4 weeks is all u got to bulk with. It takes a while to develop good lean gains even on the gear.
 
Yodambomb said:
Never heard of anyone that ran MSten at 45-60
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Precisely! People don't typically run M-Sten that high because the gains don't really justify the sides at higher doses. As far as DMZ it is considered one of the most myotropic compounds out, that means it has a higher affinity to the Androgen Receptor in the muscles. People run DMZ up into the 100's, now that is really hard core but goes to show that even over 100mg people are having very successful runs only complaining of lethargy. That being said I do not recommend this. Just making a statement.

When I stated on a mg per mg basis that implied that 30mg of DMZ would be less toxic than 30mg of MSten from anecdotal feedback anyway which is why you stating no one runs MSten that high feeds into that same vane of thought.
 
fueledpassion said:
Right, which is why anecdotally we'd imply that DMZ is less toxic. But seriously, I've heard of folks doing 30mg of each. So I can imagine 45mg of MSTEN is viable.

Heck, there are some folks who ran SD @ 30-40mg but I don't recommend that.

But I think less for longer would be better though unless 4 weeks is all u got to bulk with. It takes a while to develop good lean gains even on the gear.
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Boston loyd ran sd at 60-70mg. He said in a vid he became depressed and started lactating and got major gyno lmao but gained 30-40 pounds haha
 
reps4jesus said:
Boston loyd ran sd at 60-70mg. He said in a vid he became depressed and started lactating and got major gyno lmao but gained 30-40 pounds haha
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He would...

He also recommends several grams at a time of various androgens, which shows his age and level of experience.

He is a big guy, but he didn't need all that to get to 260lbs, lol. If he keeps up his pace, he'll be one unhealthy dude in 10 years.
 
fueledpassion said:
He would...

He also recommends several grams at a time of various androgens, which shows his age and level of experience.

He is a big guy, but he didn't need all that to get to 260lbs, lol. If he keeps up his pace, he'll be one unhealthy dude in 10 years.
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He doesn't understand the stress his body is under. He says his levels come back fine but I highly doubt he understands all of the possible ramifications.
"3cc here, 3cc here, 3cc here, and oh 3cc here. Annnnd 3cc here For good measure" ;)
He has built a great physique no doubt mainly because of drugs but I really hope he gets a reality check, because he has a gf that may want to have children one day. It would be a shame to deny yourself and your spouse a family because you were to selfish to take care of your body.
 
M.I.D said:
Running it with Tr3st

Will be doing 40 all the way through was planning and Tr3st at 50/75/75/75/75/75
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I am going to get down on this soon! :)
 
Yodambomb said:
Are you talking about the trest cyphanate ?
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No, just saying that all of PO's products are selling fast.

I ordered Desoxy T acetate. And lots of it. Gonna run as high as 700mg/wk to see what it can do for my contest prep. I keep hearing that it's even better for bulking than cutting.

We'll see soon enough.
 
M.I.D said:
Running it with Tr3st

Will be doing 40 all the way through was planning and Tr3st at 50/75/75/75/75/75
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That should be a really productive and enjoyable cycle. Not pushing doses on anything but plenty to do the job.
 
fueledpassion said:
No, just saying that all of PO's products are selling fast. I ordered Desoxy T acetate. And lots of it. Gonna run as high as 700mg/wk to see what it can do for my contest prep. I keep hearing that it's even better for bulking than cutting. We'll see soon enough.
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I actually just ordered a 20ml vial of that .., just dunno if that's enough to do anything ...
 
Yodambomb said:
I actually just ordered a 20ml vial of that .., just dunno if that's enough to do anything ...
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I'm sure it is. Before even having an ester attached to it, the stuff was 160:50 anabolic/androgenic ratio.

But with a fatty acid ester to it (acetate), I'm sure it'll be even more potent as it won't be subject to degradation in the body.

People claim it's like Mast with the ability to pack on substantial size. Others say in higher doses about 400mg/wk it's a lot like Tren without the nasty sides.

Yet others say it's a mix between EQ and Mast. Either way, all three of those drugs are favs and are great for contest prep.
 
fueledpassion said:
I'm sure it is. Before even having an ester attached to it, the stuff was 160:50 anabolic/androgenic ratio. But with a fatty acid ester to it (acetate), I'm sure it'll be even more potent as it won't be subject to degradation in the body. People claim it's like Mast with the ability to pack on substantial size. Others say in higher doses about 400mg/wk it's a lot like Tren without the nasty sides. Yet others say it's a mix between EQ and Mast. Either way, all three of those drugs are favs and are great for contest prep.
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For sure , I was also confused because when I see or hear the word " ester " it made me think that it's not supposed to be taken orally but it is tho .. Which idk why they use an ester for oral tho. . I don't get that
 
Yodambomb said:
For sure , I was also confused because when I see or hear the word " ester " it made me think that it's not supposed to be taken orally but it is tho .. Which idk why they use an ester for oral tho. . I don't get that
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Most of the time orals are methylated for the same purpose.
 
Yodambomb said:
Which I still am not understanding what the purpose is
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As quoted by ergo log:

"Enzymes get rid of the vital 17beta-hydroxyl group, rendering the molecule inactive. That's why most oral steroids have a methyl group next to it, and injectable steroids contain a fatty acid."

So there u have it, most steroids get broken down by enzymes. Desoxy doesn't and without the Ester it's 160:50 a:a ratio. Add the ester? No one knows what the strength and binding power of this thing goes to...

Point is, from a mytropic standpoint, it performed as well as Test PP and NPP, which is dang good, and that was without the fatty acid.

It's one reason why ergo log made the final statement:

"Now imagine that you manage to attach a fatty acid to the Desoxy testosterone. What kind of steroid would you get then?"
 
fueledpassion said:
As quoted by ergo log: "Enzymes get rid of the vital 17beta-hydroxyl group, rendering the molecule inactive. That's why most oral steroids have a methyl group next to it, and injectable steroids contain a fatty acid." So there u have it, most steroids get broken down by enzymes. Desoxy doesn't and without the Ester it's 160:50 a:a ratio. Add the ester? No one knows what the strength and binding power of this thing goes to... Point is, from a mytropic standpoint, it performed as well as Test PP and NPP, which is dang good, and that was without the fatty acid. It's one reason why ergo log made the final statement: "Now imagine that you manage to attach a fatty acid to the Desoxy testosterone. What kind of steroid would you get then?"
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Yeah DMZ has that molecule group ., that's why it's so potent compared to most of the other DS out there lol and as of Desoxy Test would I get lethargic from running it solo or I should probably use the trest . I was thinking of running trest 1-10weeks , DMZ 6 weeks and then running DST the last 4-5 weeks . It's not methylated but still wondering if that's overkill on the liv
 
Yodambomb said:
Yeah DMZ has that molecule group ., that's why it's so potent compared to most of the other DS out there lol and as of Desoxy Test would I get lethargic from running it solo or I should probably use the trest . I was thinking of running trest 1-10weeks , DMZ 6 weeks and then running DST the last 4-5 weeks . It's not methylated but still wondering if that's overkill on the liv
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Nope. It's not
 
fueledpassion said:
I'm sure it is. Before even having an ester attached to it, the stuff was 160:50 anabolic/androgenic ratio.

But with a fatty acid ester to it (acetate), I'm sure it'll be even more potent as it won't be subject to degradation in the body.

People claim it's like Mast with the ability to pack on substantial size. Others say in higher doses about 400mg/wk it's a lot like Tren without the nasty sides.

Yet others say it's a mix between EQ and Mast. Either way, all three of those drugs are favs and are great for contest prep.
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Well ****! Where do I get me some of this stuff?!

Lol.
 
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