Lowering Cortisol

[chunkymunkey]

I've been lifting to failure with my trainer and have just read an article that states, "[...] one study found that exclusively using the technique drastically increased resting levels of the stress hormone cortisol". I do two sessions a week, one set per exercise to failure (usually between 20-30 slow and controlled reps). They're full body sessions, and we usually target the big muscles from different angles.

Are there any particular products/ingredients that you guys think can help counteract this?

Do you think it's necessary to worry about it?

Cheers

 

[chunkymunkey]

Apologies for the double post. It didn't do anything when I clicked 'post reply', so I clicked it again. Now there's two threads.

Can an admin please delete this duplicate?

 

[Darkhorse192]

Apex Alchemy AET-50

 

[LeanEngineer]

Reduce Xt by SNS always come to my mind when I think of cortisol control supps. I'd recommend checking it out if you haven't already.

 

[chunkymunkey]

Reduce Xt by SNS always come to my mind when I think of cortisol control supps. I'd recommend checking it out if you haven't already.

I will have to take a look. I like SNS products.

 

[KvanH]

B-aet and Reduce XT.

 

[Renew1]

AET-50 is the Bomb!

AET-50

AET-50 is beta-androstenetriol in a topical gel format, packaged in a sleek, easy to use pump bottle.

www.apex-alchemy.com

 

[cheftepesh1]

Never used apex’s version but have heard good things. Invictus by Iron Legion or a Neuro AET by Iconic Formulations had many rave reviews. https://iconicformulations.com/collections/products/products/neuro-aet and can get 20% with code chef. Reduce XT is another way to go if want pills instead of topical.

 

[Kronic]

I have both aet-50 and Invictus, but it looks like AET-50 is now in the new gel carrier, so I'd probably go with that over Invictus

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

AET-50 is the Bomb!

AET-50

AET-50 is beta-androstenetriol in a topical gel format, packaged in a sleek, easy to use pump bottle.

www.apex-alchemy.com

this ^^ and its a big time immune booster. (probably better against the china flu than the vaks )

 

[The Solution]

I've been lifting to failure with my trainer and have just read an article that states, "[...] one study found that exclusively using the technique drastically increased resting levels of the stress hormone cortisol". I do two sessions a week, one set per exercise to failure (usually between 20-30 slow and controlled reps). They're full body sessions, and we usually target the big muscles from different angles.

Are there any particular products/ingredients that you guys think can help counteract this?

Do you think it's necessary to worry about it?

Cheers

Before looking into supplements.
Are you very stressed?
Do you live a very hectic lifestyle?
Do you suffer from any anxiety?
How long has your cortisol been high?
How is your sleep? Is it deep? Consistent? Hit or miss?
Are you taking any medication that can cause cortisol to rise?

This may not be a supplement-related issue, this may be a life issue. If that is the case you will need to focus on stress management and prioritizing sleep #1 before looking into a supplement, which would not solve the root issue.

 

[sns8778]

Reduce XT is a great choice. It's been used for years by people for cortisol control purposes in PCT, for fat loss, and for lean muscle building/recomp cycles where cortisol may be an issue.

B-Androstenetriol is also a good option. A lot of the current members weren't on here then, but under CEL we were the first (or one of the firsts, I can't remember) to launch a topical B-Androstenetriol as Suppress-C. In 2012, we stopped doing topical products. But a couple years back we licensed Suppress-C to Xtreme Performance Gels and they use the same carrier and part of the licensing agreement is confirming quality of every batch via independent testing; so if going the B-triol route, I'd say Suppress-C.

For me personally, I like both but I use Reduce XT more bc I'm much more likely to be consistent with a capsule product.

 

[Resolve10]

I'm going to be honest, you have got some good suggestions, but do you really even need anything?

You don't mention anything other than reading a study. Just because it can increase cortisol doesn't mean it is pushing you past your own abilities to recover. Even pushing hard with only two days per week of sessions you may find you have plenty of time to recover.

Don't look for a problem when there isn't one.

Bookmark this thread though and come back in the future if you do find you need help with this.

 

[jtmass]

Before you look into supplements, look for signs that body throws at you.

1) Are you fatigued all throughout the day?
2) Are you not recovering for the next session? Inflammation markers are a good point to start
3) Diet, sleep all play an important role

Just don't throw in a supplement thinking it's going to help. And stop over thinking about cortisol because of some study.

 

[chunkymunkey]

I have both aet-50 and Invictus, but it looks like AET-50 is now in the new gel carrier, so I'd probably go with that over Invictus

Is topical considered better than pills for these ingredients or just your preference?

 

[chunkymunkey]

Before looking into supplements.
Are you very stressed?
Do you live a very hectic lifestyle?
Do you suffer from any anxiety?
How long has your cortisol been high?
How is your sleep? Is it deep? Consistent? Hit or miss?
Are you taking any medication that can cause cortisol to rise?

This may not be a supplement-related issue, this may be a life issue. If that is the case you will need to focus on stress management and prioritizing sleep #1 before looking into a supplement, which would not solve the root issue.

Sleep has been good. I’ve been in a new routine over the last 6-12 months prioritising this. I take melatonin, GABA & magnesium before bed, minimise screen time & do some stretching.

My work can be stressful. I’ve recently moved and trying to minimise lifestyle stressors. That is more hit and miss than my sleep, to be honest. I carry most my fat around my midsection. Diet has been better, but I’m speaking with a nutritionist to start something more structured and go to another level.

For a little background, I’m 37 and have lost 15-20kgs over the last year. Body fat % is still too high & I’m definitely a work in progress.

 

[Kronic]

Is topical considered better than pills for these ingredients or just your preference?

It really just depends. Applying transdermal can be really inconvenient and can lead to missing doses. The new apex gel carrier does dry REALLY fast (even in high humidity), but still its not for everyone. Usually when I'm faced with a difficult decision on oral vs topical, I just buy both and stack/alternate both. sounds like reduce-xt would be a good option, but i havent tried it

 

[chunkymunkey]

I'm going to be honest, you have got some good suggestions, but do you really even need anything?

You don't mention anything other than reading a study. Just because it can increase cortisol doesn't mean it is pushing you past your own abilities to recover. Even pushing hard with only two days per week of sessions you may find you have plenty of time to recover.

Don't look for a problem when there isn't one.

Bookmark this thread though and come back in the future if you do find you need help with this.

I don’t know if I necessarily need anything, but I thought I could trial something and see how I respond.

 

[The Solution]

Sleep has been good. I’ve been in a new routine over the last 6-12 months prioritising this. I take melatonin, GABA & magnesium before bed, minimise screen time & do some stretching.

My work can be stressful. I’ve recently moved and trying to minimise lifestyle stressors. That is more hit and miss than my sleep, to be honest. I carry most my fat around my midsection. Diet has been better, but I’m speaking with a nutritionist to start something more structured and go to another level.

For a little background, I’m 37 and have lost 15-20kgs over the last year. Body fat % is still too high & I’m definitely a work in progress.

how is your digestion?
A lot of inflammation in the gut can lead to elevated cortisol levels with inconsistent digestion

if stress is high that means cortisol will be high as well
If you need to take a Kitchen sink of supplements to go tk
Bed I would consider getting into a better daily sleep
Schedule and routine.

If you have to depend on supplements to get proper sleep there is more to the root issue then a study on training

this is more of a lifestyle issue not a supplement issue
just like you can’t supplement bad diet
You can’t expect to fix your health markers if you can’t check all the boxes for biofeedback to enhance your longevity.

 

[chunkymunkey]

Before you look into supplements, look for signs that body throws at you.

1) Are you fatigued all throughout the day?
2) Are you not recovering for the next session? Inflammation markers are a good point to start
3) Diet, sleep all play an important role

Just don't throw in a supplement thinking it's going to help. And stop over thinking about cortisol because of some study.

There’s days when I feel gassed and a little lethargic. I also do two BJJ sessions a week which pushes me to my limits. I’ve got a long way to go in my health and fitness journey. I don’t expect miracles or overnight results, that’s for sure. I’m about to turn 38 and so I’m just looking at my options and anything else I could possibly add into the mix to give myself a leg up. I understand supplements are exactly that; supplements to good routines, diet, and discipline.

I’m not we’ll educated in this space, though. The study and things I was reading yesterday just got me thinking about this approach and I thought I’d get some genuine answers on AM about whether it’s worth pursuing & if so, which products I should be looking at.

cheers

 

[chunkymunkey]

how is your digestion?
A lot of inflammation in the gut can lead to elevated cortisol levels with inconsistent digestion

if stress is high that means cortisol will be high as well
If you need to take a Kitchen sink of supplements to go tk
Bed I would consider getting into a better daily sleep
Schedule and routine.

If you have to depend on supplements to get proper sleep there is more to the root issue then a study on training

this is more of a lifestyle issue not a supplement issue
just like you can’t supplement bad diet
You can’t expect to fix your health markers if you can’t check all the boxes for biofeedback to enhance your longevity.

I get reflux with particular foods and timing, so I try to avoid those triggers as much as possible. If it flares up I take an otc 24hr reflux medication. I’ve been gluten and lactose free for a few months now as I believe they’re mildly inflammatory. That has helped.

I don’t believe I need the bedtime supps anymore, but I do like the dreams from melatonin and the deeper sleeps! Also, I was beginning to cramp at BJJ so I figured I should keep up the magnesium. The gaba I’ll just stick with until the bottle is empty.

I signed up for a coaching program a while ago which was very focused on improving sleep & digestion, so I’ve started working towards those long term improvements. I’m definitely more mindful of them now. He’s the one that recommended those supps and helped me start this new sleep routine, which has admittedly made a mountain of difference to how I feel mentally and physically day-to-day.

Like I said, I’m a work in progress! I like to think I’m making positive steps, though.

 

[aman88]

Reduce XT is a great choice. It's been used for years by people for cortisol control purposes in PCT, for fat loss, and for lean muscle building/recomp cycles where cortisol may be an issue.

B-Androstenetriol is also a good option. A lot of the current members weren't on here then, but under CEL we were the first (or one of the firsts, I can't remember) to launch a topical B-Androstenetriol as Suppress-C. In 2012, we stopped doing topical products. But a couple years back we licensed Suppress-C to Xtreme Performance Gels and they use the same carrier and part of the licensing agreement is confirming quality of every batch via independent testing; so if going the B-triol route, I'd say Suppress-C.

For me personally, I like both but I use Reduce XT more bc I'm much more likely to be consistent with a capsule product.

i was also curious about reduce xt but I could not find much on the two listed ingredients online. Could you give me some info on what each is? Thanks!

 

[sns8778]

i was also curious about reduce xt but I could not find much on the two listed ingredients online. Could you give me some info on what each is? Thanks!

Reduce XT contains 7-OH DHEA, which has been a very popular ingredient for a long time for cortisol control. It first got popular back in the original ph days as the go to for cortisol control and helping keep gains during PCT.

It is still very commonly used for that and has also become very popular for fat loss and lean muscle retention when dieting.

Back when 7-OH was first released, it was only offered in SNS Reduce XT and the original DS Lean Xtreme. I think a couple companies offered it over the years, some in prop blends. But I think most or all may have stopped now bc of the extremely high cost of raw materials.

 

[aman88]

Reduce XT contains 7-OH DHEA, which has been a very popular ingredient for a long time for cortisol control. It first got popular back in the original ph days as the go to for cortisol control and helping keep gains during PCT.

It is still very commonly used for that and has also become very popular for fat loss and lean muscle retention when dieting.

Back when 7-OH was first released, it was only offered in SNS Reduce XT and the original DS Lean Xtreme. I think a couple companies offered it over the years, some in prop blends. But I think most or all may have stopped now bc of the extremely high cost of raw materials.

What’s the difference between the alpha and beta?

 

[Smont]

I didn't read through the entire thread but has anyone brought up the point that lowering cortisol too much has its own nasty side effects? Going by his post and how much, or little I should say that he's working out. I highly doubt High cortisol is his problem....

Just guessing that your cortisol is high and slamming it down to nothing might not be a great idea

 

[thebigt]

an often overlooked supplement is endoamp max--it has cotisol modulating effect, plus it has brain cognitive boosting effects[nootropic], it increases testosterone, and it is good for all around health.

@chunkymunkey i tagged you in the endoamp max write-up thread, it's a old thread but the 1st post is very informative about endo amp max and cortisol.

 

[hyperCat]

I didn't read through the entire thread but has anyone brought up the point that lowering cortisol too much has its own nasty side effects? Going by his post and how much, or little I should say that he's working out. I highly doubt High cortisol is his problem....

Just guessing that your cortisol is high and slamming it down to nothing might not be a great idea

I can vouch for this. Ive tanked my cortisol once or twice along the way and had the worst insomnia ever. Took me awhile to figure out what the hell my problem was. An old member here on AM made some suggestions that finally got me sleeping again. I was a walking zombie for weeks on end, and thought I was going to go insane from lack of sleep. Fucked up cortisol levels are no fun, so tread lightly.

 

[Smont]

I can vouch for this. Ive tanked my cortisol once or twice along the way and had the worst insomnia ever. Took me awhile to figure out what the hell my problem was. An old member here on AM made some suggestions that finally got me sleeping again. I was a walking zombie for weeks on end, and thought I was going to go insane from lack of sleep. Fucked up cortisol levels are no fun, so tread lightly.

Ya, it's a little on the extreme side that stuff like this happens but it's definitely a possibility. In your case cortisol is produced by the HPA And has a strong influence on your sleep cycle, that's just like one of the many things that can happen from low cortisol.
I'm not demonizing these cortisol blocking supplements at all, a lot of the products mentioned above our fantastic, I've used a couple and I've seen other people give good feedback on pretty much all the other ones.

The point I was trying to make though is if this guy doesn't have any issues to begin with and then start slamming two or three of these supplements thinking he's going to fix the problem he may actually cause a problem.

 

[Jeremyk1]

Exercise reduces the catabolic effects of cortisol. If you’re worried about losing muscle, it shouldn’t be an issue.

 

[Smont]

There’s days when I feel gassed and a little lethargic. I also do two BJJ sessions a week which pushes me to my limits. I’ve got a long way to go in my health and fitness journey. I don’t expect miracles or overnight results, that’s for sure. I’m about to turn 38 and so I’m just looking at my options and anything else I could possibly add into the mix to give myself a leg up. I understand supplements are exactly that; supplements to good routines, diet, and discipline.

I’m not we’ll educated in this space, though. The study and things I was reading yesterday just got me thinking about this approach and I thought I’d get some genuine answers on AM about whether it’s worth pursuing & if so, which products I should be looking at.

cheers

Don't underestimate yourself, I'm turning 37 in March, I'm currently doing an hour and a half of weight training 4 to 5 days a week an hour of boxing 4 to 5 days a week. I work 8 to 10 hours a day 6 days a week and as much as I hate to admit it my sleep is terrible approximately 6 hours per night when I'm on point. I'm actually in the process of bringing the training intensity up as well.

You got to push yourself a little bit before you count yourself out or put limitations on what you can do

 

[Smont]

We've got senior citizens on this forum running 10ks as well, you guys know who you are so I don't need to put the grandpas on blast

 

[chunkymunkey]

I didn't read through the entire thread but has anyone brought up the point that lowering cortisol too much has its own nasty side effects? Going by his post and how much, or little I should say that he's working out. I highly doubt High cortisol is his problem....

Just guessing that your cortisol is high and slamming it down to nothing might not be a great idea

Thank you. I am aware that it still has important functions, so controlling is the end goal, not eliminating. What would you notice from lowering cortisol levels too much? How do you identify that?

I do have a high stress job and some home issues that contribute, and I believe these in addition to working out raise cortisol levels, right? I also do BJJ twice a week on top of the resistance training, so fwiw I'm working out more than just those two weight training sessions. I was unsure whether as an 'inexperienced' lifter jumping into two high intensity failure training sessions a week would be having that effect on me.

 

[chunkymunkey]

I can vouch for this. Ive tanked my cortisol once or twice along the way and had the worst insomnia ever. Took me awhile to figure out what the hell my problem was. An old member here on AM made some suggestions that finally got me sleeping again. I was a walking zombie for weeks on end, and thought I was going to go insane from lack of sleep. Fucked up cortisol levels are no fun, so tread lightly.

Is insomnia the main side effect of tanked cortisol levels? That's an easy thing for me to keep an eye on if I do grab something, I guess.

 

[chunkymunkey]

Don't underestimate yourself, I'm turning 37 in March, I'm currently doing an hour and a half of weight training 4 to 5 days a week an hour of boxing 4 to 5 days a week. I work 8 to 10 hours a day 6 days a week and as much as I hate to admit it my sleep is terrible approximately 6 hours per night when I'm on point. I'm actually in the process of bringing the training intensity up as well.

You got to push yourself a little bit before you count yourself out or put limitations on what you can do

Appreciate the positivity and encouragement. Certainly not counting myself out, by any means!

 

[sns8778]

Thank you. I am aware that it still has important functions, so controlling is the end goal, not eliminating. What would you notice from lowering cortisol levels too much? How do you identify that?

I do have a high stress job and some home issues that contribute, and I believe these in addition to working out raise cortisol levels, right? I also do BJJ twice a week on top of the resistance training, so fwiw I'm working out more than just those two weight training sessions. I was unsure whether as an 'inexperienced' lifter jumping into two high intensity failure training sessions a week would be having that effect on me.

If you train hard and heavy it can increase cortisol, but that by itself usually wouldn't be to an extreme. But cortisol is one of those things that can kind of have that 2x2=10 effect in that if you have a couple of factors that alone wouldn't increase it too badly on its own, put them together and it can have an exponential effect.

For example, training hard and heavy (physiological stress) plus high stress job (psychological stress) plus home life issues (more psychological stress), etc. And then there are other factors that can exacerbate them even more.

Some people will tell you that 2 high intensity training sessions probably wouldn't affect your cortisol levels too much. And they are correct in the sense that if that was all that was going on, it likely wouldn't. But that doesn't mean in your case it isn't - which is why I wanted to explain the above in that how the different things that may affect cortisol can feed off one another.

If you go with Reduce XT, the normal dose is 3 caps per day. You could always start off with 2 per day if particularly worried about it maybe coming down too much.

Btw... love BJJ. Great sport for both the body and the mind.

Is insomnia the main side effect of tanked cortisol levels? That's an easy thing for me to keep an eye on if I do grab something, I guess.

The odds of dropping it too low with your lifestyle factors is pretty slim.

In the unlikely event that you were to drop it too low, things you could be on the lookout for would be changes in sleep patterns, dryness and pain in the joints, etc.

 

[sns8778]

What’s the difference between the alpha and beta?

We've never placed an emphasis between them in our marketing. Its really just being technical from a label standpoint that both the alpha and beta forms are included.

 

[Kronic]

I think all the people criticizing you have never tried one of these cortisol lowering supps. sometimes it's nice to use just because your GF is driving you crazy. with the dermals I've tried the releif is very fast and noticable. just don't overuse it and you should be fine

 

[thebigt]

I think all the people criticizing you have never tried one of these cortisol lowering supps. sometimes it's nice to use just because your GF is driving you crazy. with the dermals I've tried the releif is very fast and noticable. just don't overuse it and you should be fine

i tagged you in the endoamp max write-up thread...some great info on cortisol there--start at 1st post.

 

[Kronic]

i tagged you in the endoamp max write-up thread...some great info on cortisol there--start at 1st post.

ty for the suggestion, might try it some time. a bit pricey

 

[thebigt]

ty for the suggestion, might try it some time. a bit pricey

high quality-pricey ingredients. code THEBIGT helps with price, good for 20% off...sometimes you really do get what you pay for.

 

[delsolrob]

the cost to make endoamp is insane - it really should sell for $100+, but it's not just a cortisol lowering supp...this is a true powerhouse product that packs a ton of benefits into one bottle

 

[sns8778]

the cost to make endoamp is insane - it really should sell for $100+, but it's not just a cortisol lowering supp...this is a true powerhouse product that packs a ton of benefits into one bottle

I'll back that up on my end as well. It's an expensive product to buy but its a very expensive product to make.

While EndoAmp may be more expensive than some people can put into a product, it isn't because of an unfair markup or anything on Rob's end. Even though its expensive, he's still actually below industry average margin on the product bc it costs so much to make.

Comparing it to a competing product (I won't name names), his retail price isn't quite double what theirs is but his delivers 8x the amount of Phosphatidylserine. Literally 8 times more. His is the only product on the market that I'm aware of that has 800 mg. actual Phosphatidylserine per serving. I'm not trying to knock the other companies products, just giving an example of how good of a value EndoAmp actually is for what it is.

And since I am pointing out how high of a dose his Phosphatidylserine content is, I want to make sure to explain something so people don't misunderstand anything since we're in a cortisol lowering thread. Just because his product contains such a high dose of Phosphatidylserine, it does not mean that you would have to worry about it tanking cortisol levels too low. I wanted to make sure to clarify that since some people have discussed in this thread the potential for cortisol levels to be detrimental when they're too low as well as when they're too high. Phosphatidylserine is pretty gentle on the way it works lowering cortisol and I personally view any cortisol lowering benefits of it in general as a nice side effect or extra benefit, but its not something I would buy just for reducing cortisol as its sole purpose. So basically, even if you're already taking something for cortisol control like Reduce XT or KSM-66, you should still be able to stack EndoAmp with it if you wanted to.

To me, I view EndoAmp as an overall premium health supplement and longevity type product moreso than it fitting into any one particular category because it has so many cool potential benefits.

 

[dukes3577]

Was thinking to jump back on this, However Alphagen that I am taking already has 600mg Alpha GPC. Would these two stacked be overkill?

 

[sns8778]

Was thinking to jump back on this, However Alphagen that I am taking already has 600mg Alpha GPC. Would these two stacked be overkill?

Alphagen has 600 mg total but that's at 50% active so its only 300 mg. active. But 600 mg. Alpha GPC active would be too much for some people. So that would vary by the person.

 

[dukes3577]

What kind of negative sides are we talking about?

 

[sns8778]

What kind of negative sides are we talking about?

Alpha GPC if dosed too high for some people can basically do the reverse of what its used for. Like for me, if I go too high on it, it gives me terrible brain fog and makes me tired.

 

[Alan1]

Comparing it to a competing product (I won't name names), his retail price isn't quite double what theirs is but his delivers 8x the amount of Phosphatidylserine. Literally 8 times more. His is the only product on the market that I'm aware of that has 800 mg. actual Phosphatidylserine per serving.

MPA Cortisolve is the only other one I know of that has the same amount of phosphatidylserine. That product is usually around $57 for I think 28 servings so yeah, not cheap. But, I have no problem paying that and to me, EndoAmp is not a bad price at all.

 

[thebigt]

MPA Cortisolve is the only other one I know of that has the same amount of phosphatidylserine. That product is usually around $57 for I think 28 servings so yeah, not cheap. But, I have no problem paying that and to me, EndoAmp is not a bad price at all.

endoamp Also contains 600mg of A-GPC 50%..and using my code THEBIGT endomap max is $56-so it is like getting the A-GPC for free-and A-GPC isn't cheap.


A-GPC promotes learning and memory, it also promotes endurance performance, growth hormone secretion and prevents exercise induced reductions in choline levels.

alpha-gpc also benefits mood and outlook significantly via release of dopamine.