Unanswered LJ100

GreenMachineX

GreenMachineX

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Which brands of LJ100 have y’all used and enjoyed? And has anyone really pushed the dose high? I’ve tried OL’s and after a few days had pretty irritating tinnitus that lasted a day or 2 until I stopped taking it. Easily could’ve been something else since I never tested it again, so I don’t really know. I’ve also tried bulksupplements and had great effects but kept pulling muscles in my back and neck. 2 days off it and injuries felt fine. Tested that 3 times lol.
Next I’m going to try Barlowe’s so we’ll see.
 
M

muree

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whats your dose on LJ?. I have and still use OL LJ 100 and keep it between 400 mg (no workout days) - 600 mg (workout days).
 
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mase1

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OL LJ100, tried higher doses but just feel too aggressive and irritated. 100-200mg does the job.
 
Ptlhains

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I have used OL, Black Lion Viron, HIM and various bulk powders over the years. Its harder and harder to find good tongkat.
Without a doubt, Viron and HIM were the best exracts and demonstrated about the same results.
I have used upto 1000mg a day.
Viron; however, is the absolute best value when it is on sale (like it is right now at suppremacy).
Suppremacy also has OL buy 2 get one free, but Viron is still the best value.
Have not used Barlow's, but they are way to expensive for me to be using on a regular basis and I highly doubt they have a better extract.
 
GreenMachineX

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Well, on second thought, I canceled my Barlowe order and ordered another OL LJ100 instead to try again. Too many good reviews lol. Next I’ll try Viron.
 
thebigt

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Well, on second thought, I canceled my Barlowe order and ordered another OL LJ100 instead to try again. Too many good reviews lol. Next I’ll try Viron.
next time try fadogia, I much prefer it to LJ.
 
GHopkins

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which brand?
Any Brand will work. But for a well reviewed source try CEL M-Test. Fadogia is the main ingredient. Be forewarned if you run it 60 days straight your joints might dry out a bit towards the end. I should have stocked some Cissus for this issue.
 
GreenMachineX

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next time try fadogia, I much prefer it to LJ.
I plan on it, but brand and quality is definitely important to me. I won’t use m-test because there’s a couple ingredients I don’t like. I also want to try anacyclus solo; I love the data there is on it.

Lastly, I decided to go with Viron and OL’s LJ100, 1 cap Viron in morning and 1 cap lj100 afternoon. The best of both worlds.
 
LeanEngineer

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Any Brand will work. But for a well reviewed source try CEL M-Test. Fadogia is the main ingredient. Be forewarned if you run it 60 days straight your joints might dry out a bit towards the end. I should have stocked some Cissus for this issue.
I'd second CEL M-Test. Well known product with a lot of positive reviews. Like said you may want to grab some joint support.
 
VaughnTrue

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the studies on LJ100 are surprisingly non-acceptable.

Go to the manufacturers website and see every study they use to justify their claims, and you'll quickly see what I mean. It's a shame.
 
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I used some LJ100 at 400mg for several weeks and didn’t notice anything. That said, I have used M-Test that has LJ100 and would suggest someone trying it on a cut.
 
thebigt

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I used some LJ100 at 400mg for several weeks and didn’t notice anything. That said, I have used M-Test that has LJ100 and would suggest someone trying it on a cut.
the reason for better results with m-test is the fadogia..
 
GreenMachineX

GreenMachineX

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I used some LJ100 at 400mg for several weeks and didn’t notice anything. That said, I have used M-Test that has LJ100 and would suggest someone trying it on a cut.
Which brand LJ100 was that?
 
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Jeremyk1

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I used some LJ100 at 400mg for several weeks and didn’t notice anything. That said, I have used M-Test that has LJ100 and would suggest someone trying it on a cut.
Not sure if an older version had it, but M-Test doesn’t use LJ100, it’s a different extract. I think someone from the company said it’s 2% eurycomanone, so it should be a more potent extract.
 
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alvin1

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@[U]VaughnTrue[/U] do you mean as they are in house study? That are paid for by the owner HP science a think?
 
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aaronuconn

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@[U]VaughnTrue[/U] do you mean as they are in house study? That are paid for by the owner HP science a think?
Not to speak on Vaughn’s behalf, but here are some of his thoughts on a LJ100 thread I made on another forum. Valid objective points
Now LJ100 claims to have 13 unique human clinical trials. Lets dive into some of those to see what those funding the studies are even claiming here.

Study #1 - LJ100 as a Potential Natural Energizer for Healthy Aging in Men.
M.I.M. Tambi, S. Othman AND J.M. Saad. Published: First Asian Andrology 2002


I can't find this full text anywhere (or a non-supplier abstract in pubmed/sciencefirst for that matter) but it is what it is.



n=30 which is nice, but it was an open trial study. Did they monitor their other supplement intake? No way to know.

The study shows they had an increase in libido, but only theorized that they'd actually increase their testosterone production via increased DHEA levels...but even that it's only a suggestion. Zero conclusive evidence.



Study #2 - The Ergogenic Effects of LJ100
Hamzah, S and Yusuf, A. Published: British Journal of Sports Medicine (2003).BASEM Abstract. 37:465-466.


I can't seem to find this study in the British Journal of Sports medicine, despite it being published there...not sure what the deal is with that one.

This study investigated the effect of the increase in testosterone levels, obtained byLJ100 on body composition and muscle strength and size in men. 14 healthy men (age 25.64 ± 3.73 years) performed an intense strength training program for 5 weeks. Subjects were randomly divided into two groups, where one group (n=7) consumed 100mg/day of LJ100 extract and the other group received placebo. Results suggest that LJ100 increased fat free mass, reduced body fat, increased muscle strength and size and thus may have an ergogenic effect.



So in this study they used only 100mg/day, and they claim the 100mg/day participants (n=7) experienced more weight loss & more muscle growth than placebo. No discussion on hormonal changes...interesting.


Study #3 - LJ100, a Potent Adaptogen, Maintains Healthy Aging in Men
Tambi, M.I. Kadir, A.B.


Can't find this full text anywhere either...

Claimed that users showed "high normal levels" of testosterone/DHEA in users...but has no control/placebo to compare to despite there being a placebo group present. They just claim they were "high normal" in comparison to baseline. Despite this, they mention that the "majority of LJ100 volunteers have high normal thyroxin compared to placebo". So they compared thyroxin to placebo, but not testosterone? Gotcha.


Study #4 - Effect of LJ100 on Anabolic Balance During Endurance Exercise
Talbott S, Talbott J, Negrete J, Jones M, Nichols M, and Roza J.
Published: Journal of International Society of Sport Medicine 3 (1): S32 2006


The study showed an increase of 16.4% for Testosterone. This is so insignificant it doesn't make sense for me to spend the 10 minutes looking further into it.


Study #5 - Effect of a 6-week Lifestyle Program on Mood State and Metabolic Parameters in Moderately Overweight Subjects
Shawn Talbott, Anne-Marie Christopulos, & Candice Ekberg.
Unpublished. (2007)


Unpublished. Next.


Study #6 - Effects of Strength Training and LJ100 Supplementation on Strength and Muscle Size in Middle-aged Women
Sarina, M.Y. Published: 4th Asia-Pacific Conference on Exercise and Sport Science & 8th International Sports Science Conference (2009).


This study is on middle aged women. Can anyone even find an abstract? I currently cannot. Were the women trained/experienced weight lifters/athletes? Had they ever touched weights before? No mention on hormone level changes that I can find.


Study #7 - Eurycoma longifolia Jack in Managing Idiopathic Male Infertility
Mohd Ismail Bin Mohd Tambi1, M. Kamarul Imran
Published: Asian Journal of Andrology (2010) 12: 376–380




More sperm, healthier sperm...rock on! No mention on testosterone/hormonal changes.


Study #8 - LJ100 as testosterone booster for managing men with late-onset hypogonadism
I. B. M. Tambi1,2, M. K. Imran2 & R. R. Henkel3
Published: First International Journal of Angrologia 2011




n=76...awesome!
Non-healthy men...they suffer from late onset hypogonadism...not so awesome.

If you have hypogonadism, this may really help out.


Study #9 - Randomized Clinical Trial on the Use of LJ100 for the Improvement of Quality of Life and Sexual Well-Being in Men
HP Ingredients supports sustainable wild-crafting, fair trade and socially responsible practices for indigenous collectors in Malaysia, where its raw botanical ingredients are harvested.


wait what? Thats literally all they quote on their own website.

Next.


Study #10 - Effect of LJ100 on Stress Hormones and Psychological Mood State in Moderately Stressed Subjects
Shawn M Talbott, Julie A Talbott, Annie George, Mike Pugh
Published: Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition 2013, 10:28




So they reduced their tension/anger/confusion, and increased their testosterone by 37%.

Were these participants "healthy" to begin with? Did they suffer from high anxiety/anger/confusion to begin with, thereby increasing natural cortisol and lowering testosterone? This study is underwhelming in total testosterone increase, and extra underwhelming due to lack of actual data.


Study #11 - Tongkat Ali as a Potential Herbal Supplement for Physically Active Male and Female Seniors
Ralf R. Henkel, Ruxiang Wang, Susan Bassett, Tao Chen, Na Liu, Ying Zhu, and Mohd Ismail Tambi
Published: PHYTOTHERAPY RESEARCH (2013)





57-72 years of age...big old dose of 400mg/day...and they saw a 15.1% increase in testosterone along with a 61.1% increase in free testosterone. Not too shabby on the FT increases. I wonder what happens when you give this to a 20-40 year old male.


Study #12 - Effects of LJ100 on Sexual Performance & Well-being in Men with Reduced Sexual Potency
Udani J, Gruenwald J, Miller M, George A, Mufiza M, Abas A,
Published: Evidence-Based Complementary and Alternative Medicine, Volume 2014, Article ID: 179529


Reduced sexual potency...again, non-healthy volunteers. Next.


Study #13 - Phytoandrogenic Properties of Eurycoma longifolia as Natural Alternative to Testosterone Replacement Therapy
George A, Henkel R
Published: Andrologia. Jan 2014



This isn't even a study. It's a theory. And they're claiming you can use LJ100 in place of TRT...bruhhhhhhhh



Study #14 - Immunomodulation in Middle-Aged Humans Via the Ingestion of LJ100/Physta Standardized Root Water Extract of Eurycoma longifolia Jack —A Randomized, Double-Blind, Placebo-Controlled, Parallel Study
Annie George, Naoko Suzuki, Azreena Binti Abas, Kiminori Mohri
Published: Phytotherapy Research 2016


Safety study...great, it won't kill us.












the best we see is a 15-30% increase in testosterone and a 60% increase in free testosterone...in older men. You can get better results in older men with cheap as hell DHEA.



Maybe I'm not as big of a fan of LJ100 as I originally thought I was.
 
A

aaronuconn

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And here is the thread (AM version) that initiated this convo:

 
GreenMachineX

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Wait, I want to make I understand. We have several studies that aren’t 100% conclusive but may show benefit. But because they aren’t 100% perfect, we discount it all and move on? Wouldn’t the better option be to try it and see if the claims are true?
 
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aaronuconn

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Wait, I want to make I understand. We have several studies that aren’t 100% conclusive but may show benefit. But because they aren’t 100% perfect, we discount it all and move on? Wouldn’t the better option be to try it and see if the claims are true?
Personally, I don’t discount the studies. Would it be more optimal for someone other than the manufacturer to fund the studies? Of course. But the studies + my personal experience are more than enough for me.

Given the thread I created, I’m certainly a fan. I’ve used it, and very much enjoy it.
 
VaughnTrue

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Wait, I want to make I understand. We have several studies that aren’t 100% conclusive but may show benefit. But because they aren’t 100% perfect, we discount it all and move on? Wouldn’t the better option be to try it and see if the claims are true?
the studies make me fearful that it's smoke and mirrors. It may not be, but almost any time there's a supplement that makes big claims and has dubious studies behind it, it ends up being bunk.

It MAY be a great ingredient, but without the appropriate science behind it it's a hard sell for me based on its current avg pricing
 
GreenMachineX

GreenMachineX

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the studies make me fearful that it's smoke and mirrors. It may not be, but almost any time there's a supplement that makes big claims and has dubious studies behind it, it ends up being bunk.

It MAY be a great ingredient, but without the appropriate science behind it it's a hard sell for me based on its current avg pricing
I see. Just 2 different perspectives then. I’m ok with spending some cash to test something myself, and I’m glad I did because of the amazing results I’m having with my high dose ecdy/laxo stack.
 

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