Laxogenin or epicatechin

comandotech

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Friends if we naturally comply with the basics, protein, bcca, creatine, calories. Can taking laxogenine or epicatechin help me gain mass? They know some brand type bulk in usa. What opinions do you have of these products? thank you
 
ValiantThor08

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Friends if we naturally comply with the basics, protein, bcca, creatine, calories. Can taking laxogenine or epicatechin help me gain mass? They know some brand type bulk in usa. What opinions do you have of these products? thank you
Could take an oral epi, and a topical laxo product.

Hit up BLR for Follidrone 2.0. It has epicatechin, ecklonia cava and flos carthami. It will also enhance the absorption of other supplements you take. For topical laxo, check out Iconogenin.
 
LvlUpStrength

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I'm currently on my second bottle of Olympus Labs Massacr3 but I've read great reviews on Progenadrex.
 
GQdaLEGEND

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epicathechin wins all the time .. ive done numerous CEL Epi-Plex ..best amount for its bucks great stuff.
 

nãomiguel

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Two things...

Epi doesn't work. Anyone telling you otherwise it's just trying to sell you their worthless trash supplements, like Follidrone 2.0

OL Massacr3 5-a-laxogenin is pretty good for strength and size. However, laxogenin supplements are kind of a crap shoot. Lots of off-label ingredients, armistane, random steroid artifacts. Often there isn't any laxogenin at all. 5-a-laxogenin (what's in most supplements) isn't known to occur anywhere in nature.

Read and grow smart...
 
Ptlhains

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Two things...

Epi doesn't work. Anyone telling you otherwise it's just trying to sell you their worthless trash supplements, like Follidrone 2.0

OL Massacr3 5-a-laxogenin is pretty good for strength and size. However, laxogenin supplements are kind of a crap shoot. Lots of off-label ingredients, armistane, random steroid artifacts. Often there isn't any laxogenin at all. 5-a-laxogenin (what's in most supplements) isn't known to occur anywhere in nature.

Read and grow smart...
Hundreds and hundreds of positive comments on folidrone bro. Guess everyone but you is an idiot but you (moron)?
Oral laxo is a waste of money lmao... where do you guys come from?
 
Ptlhains

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Two things...

Epi doesn't work. Anyone telling you otherwise it's just trying to sell you their worthless trash supplements, like Follidrone 2.0

OL Massacr3 5-a-laxogenin is pretty good for strength and size. However, laxogenin supplements are kind of a crap shoot. Lots of off-label ingredients, armistane, random steroid artifacts. Often there isn't any laxogenin at all. 5-a-laxogenin (what's in most supplements) isn't known to occur anywhere in nature.

Read and grow smart...
Hundreds and hundreds of positive comments on folidrone bro. Guess everyone but you is an idiot but you (moron)?
Oral laxo is a waste of money lmao... where do you guys come from?
 

nãomiguel

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Basically no one has ever gotten gains from follidrone 1.0 or 2.0. I thought you were smart, but i guess I was wrong. Nice appeal to numbers (moron)
 
Ptlhains

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Basically no one has ever gotten gains from follidrone 1.0 or 2.0. I thought you were smart, but i guess I was wrong. Nice appeal to numbers (moron)
Basically your a troll. I never thought you were smart. Myself and everyone knew you were a total moron immediately. Go suck on some oral laxo lmao....better yet go back to bodybuilding.com
 

nãomiguel

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Epi, at best, is a pump enhancer (whatever that means). For every positive epi review there's another that says it doesn't work. Definitely didn't do anything for me and I ran Ep1logue and Follidrone. Obviously if you were just a little more smarter you would understand. Keep eating epi looser. Laxogenin is the one true supplement (mostly because of the many off-label sterols they contain).

-the smartest to ever Lyft it
 
Resolve10

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Epi, at best, is a pump enhancer (whatever that means). For every positive epi review there's another that says it doesn't work. Definitely didn't do anything for me and I ran Ep1logue and Follidrone. Obviously if you were just a little more smarter you would understand. Keep eating epi looser. Laxogenin is the one true supplement (mostly because of the many off-label sterols they contain).

-the smartest to ever Lyft it
Brah. :LOL:

But ya Laxo is the best because of the non-laxo stuff that ends up in those products. o_O
 
Iwilleattuna

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Epi, at best, is a pump enhancer (whatever that means). For every positive epi review there's another that says it doesn't work. Definitely didn't do anything for me and I ran Ep1logue and Follidrone. Obviously if you were just a little more smarter you would understand. Keep eating epi looser. Laxogenin is the one true supplement (mostly because of the many off-label sterols they contain).

-the smartest to ever Lyft it
You really think they’re spiking laxo products ? With what ? It’s pretty cheap in pure form. I love both Epicatechin and laxogenin
 

nãomiguel

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You really think their spiking laxo products ? With what ? It’s pretty cheap in pure form. I love both Epicatechin and laxogenin
Read and grow smart...

When you say 'pure' I don't even know what you mean. 5-a-OH-laxogenin doesn't occur in nature. It's totally synthetic to begin with. And most 5-a-OH-laxogenin supplements, when tested, were found to contain several off-label spirostane-type artifacts (off-label sterols).
 
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Iwilleattuna

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Read and grow smart...

When you say 'pure' I don't even know what you mean. 5-a-laxogenin doesn't occur in nature. It's totally synthetic to begin with. And most 5-a-laxogenin supplements, when tested, were found to contain several off-label spirostane-type artifacts (off-label sterols).
I always thought laxo was synthesized from smilax
 

nãomiguel

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I always thought laxo was synthesized from smilax
Laxogenin is found in smilax sieboldii, but 5-α-laxogenin is not. Its a synthetic form. I'm trying to locate a chart of all the different off-label ingredients they found in laxogenin supplements, but AM is giving me a hard time. Suffice to say, 5/12 (41%) of the tested supplements didn't even have 5-α-laxogenin in them at all. Meanwhile, *every tested laxogenin supplement* contained off-label sterols, armistane, diosgenin, diosgenone, the anabolic steroid methylclostebol, ....

To quote the chemistry bros, "Three products contain anabolic steroids, such as DHEA, testosterone propionate, the antioestrogenic androsta-3,5-diene-7,17-dione and a steroid that the researchers could not identify. The researchers found methoxivone in 3 products."
 
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nãomiguel

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Found it! Don't get me wrong, laxogenin supplements will give size and strength, but I somehow doubt that its laxogenin what's doing it.


190068
 
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Iwilleattuna

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Found it! Don't get me wrong, laxogenin supplements will give size and strength, but I somehow doubt that its laxogenin what's doing it.


View attachment 190068
Yeah , I saw that article and was pretty sketched. I really don’t know what to think and wish they actually posted the brands

Now that I think about it, around summer into September - Oct , I periodically used super laxo by primeval which was discontinued by them because they wanted to up the dosage in their new formula. I got some pretty crazy dryness from it, like very dry. After I came off, felt a lil lethargic and couldn’t maintain that vascular / DHT look. But usually this happens when transitioning from Summer to winter for me. I tend to be paranoid though lol
 

nãomiguel

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Likewise. I ran Massacr3 and got much more strength and size than seemed reasonable, especially in hindsight. Epi did basically nothing at all except drain my gucci purse.

It is entirely plausible that some labs can produce a bunch of synthetics and analogs (basically the supplement industry's MO) far easier than what sounds like a difficult extraction of laxogenin, which might then still not be very bioavailable orally (the way @Ptlhains likes to take it).

It sounds like they had to develop a procedure just to test for 5-a-laxogenin.
 
Iwilleattuna

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Likewise. I ran Massacr3 and got much more strength and size than seemed reasonable, especially in hindsight. Epi did basically nothing at all except drain my gucci purse.

It is entirely plausible that some labs can produce a bunch of synthetics and analogs (basically the supplement industry's MO) far easier than what sounds like a difficult extraction of laxogenin, which might then still not be very bioavailable orally (the way @Ptlhains likes to take it).

It sounds like they had to develop a procedure just to test for 5-a-laxogenin.
Interesting.

So your argument is that they’re literally synthesizing actual hormones from smilax ? Similar to how DHEA can be synthesized from Yam extract?
 

nãomiguel

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Interesting.

So your argument is that they’re literally synthesizing actual hormones from smilax ? Similar to how DHEA can be synthesized from Yam extract?
I wouldn't pretend to know how they do it. To be honest with you, I doubt most '5-a-laxogenin' supplements have ever seen a smilax. It could well just be a code word that connotes 'contains PEDs'.

"On the [USADA's] Supplement 411 High Risk List, for example, eight products list laxogenin on the label. Of those eight products, four of them also listed a prohibited substance on the label, while the other four tested positive for an undeclared (unlisted) stimulant, anabolic steroid, or Selective Androgen Receptor Modulator (SARM)."

(Source: https://www.usada.org/spirit-of-sport/education/illegal-ingredient-5-alpha-hydroxy-laxogenin-supplements/ )

It's also telling that no rep has ever sought to refute the claim with independent testing of any kind. The supplement does what it claims to! But, however the off-label ingredients are getting in there, I suspect that is the source of the gainz (not 5-a-laxogenin, which -never- existed in a smilax)
 
horizons

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None of us have any proof or know for sure what’s actually in our supplements without third party certification or lab tests etc
 

nãomiguel

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@Iwilleattuna I chopped it up with some Bros who are wise in the ways of science. Apparently here's the biz...

Laxogenin is in smilax, but its difficult to extract and not bioavailable orally. 5-a-OH-laxogenin is a metabolite of laxogenin (what they found in about half of supplements that claimed to contain laxogenin). They can make 5-a-OH-laxogenin semisynthetically by starting with diosgenin (which they get from some other plant), and that explains the presence of at least some of the spirostane artifacts (like crime scene evid3nce). They probably added the off-lable steroids and aromatase inhibitors.
 
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00A

00A

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@Iwilleattuna I chopped it up with some Bros who are wise in the ways of science. Apparently here's the biz...

Laxogenin is in smilax, but its difficult to extract and not bioavailable orally. 5-a-OH-laxogenin is a metabolite of laxogenin (what they found in about half of supplements that claimed to contain laxogenin). They can make 5-a-OH-laxogenin semisynthetically by starting with diosgenin (which they get from some other plant), and that explains the presence of at least some of the spirostane artifacts (like crime scene evid3nce). They probably added the off-lable steroids and aromatase inhibitors.
Finally someone on the boards who understand things.. epi and laxo did **** all for me but my laxo was buno hence they not sell it anymore its a exit strategy companies use- will try laxo again some time
 
thecave

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Friends if we naturally comply with the basics, protein, bcca, creatine, calories. Can taking laxogenine or epicatechin help me gain mass? They know some brand type bulk in usa. What opinions do you have of these products? thank you
For a natural bulk I would go for Black Lion Research Vector over Laxogenin or Epic if you had to pick only one. It contains different ingredients and the heavy hitter is Korean Mistletoe. Its the only Natty sup that I have ever seen add 3-4 kilos of muscle from a tub and there are no sides to speak off apart from hunger and a bit of lethargy if you calories are too low.
Check it out! If you have to pick Laxogenin or Epicatechin for a bulk then id probably say the Laxogenin by a short margin, ultimately those two stacked together would be better but both seem to shine better on a cut then a bulk in my experience.
 

bigthug

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Or maybe just some dirty Diana ms dianabol the breakfast of champions and become a true natty like Simoen panda
 

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