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L-Arginine and GH release

The max you'd get with a transdermal would be ~40%.

Although its a good idea, do you think the hassle of applying a transdermal would be worth the trouble for the effects received? 4-6 weeks of hormonal application one thing, where results are relatively profound. But Arginine and Lysine for GH release takes a couple months for the effects to 'kick in', and when they do, I would think its not going to be an explosive gain in mass and strength like an anabolic would give.

I think it would be better to incorporate the doseage into your diet - mix it in a drink or cap it up and take it 3 or 4 times a day.

Just my opinion, but I think 4-6 months of transdermal application 2x per day would get kind of tedious, not to mention harsh on the skin.

BV
 
terminator said:
I was looking at using phlojel which is lecethin based with minimal amounts of alcohol. Is this formula too harsh and acidic???
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I would say yes.

Amino's denature in water after a couple days. There is a reason liquid creatine is worthless.

Here is an experiment. Mix some amino's in some water, let it sit for 5-7 days, then open it. The smell will tell you.
 
Bobo - have you changed your recommened arg/lys dose to 2 g each morn and night?

(I mean changed from 2 g around workout.)
 
BAC's got a product called GH Special that is a 1:1 mix of arginine pyroglutamate and lysine HCl here: Invalid Link Removed
This looks interesting. What kind of time frame are we looking at here for fat loss?
 
Seems like it should be an empty stomach since it's the ingestion of those specific aminos in said quantities that cause the GH elevation. I wonder...are the sides from exogenous GH applicable in such a case as this where natural levels are elevated nearly to the extent of supplemental GH? Bobo?
 
I wonder how the powder mix tastes? I have straight L-arginine powder, and it's one of the more unpalatable tasting powders I've had. In hindsight, I should have purchased the tablets.
 
Also, I've read from a few different places (mostly some posts here) that GH will cause your skin to thicken. This is listed as a benefit. Why would I want my skin to thicken if I'm trying to lose fat?
 
TheCrownedOne said:
Also, I've read from a few different places (mostly some posts here) that GH will cause your skin to thicken. This is listed as a benefit. Why would I want my skin to thicken if I'm trying to lose fat?
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The thickness of the dermis and subcutaneous fat are two diff things. Our skin becomes thinner and less elastic as we age. This is one reason why GH is touted as a youth imparting hormone.
 
Thank God somebody said something. But does anybody think there's any hope to this amino combo helping with fat loss assuming EVERYTHING else is in place? Bobo did you notice anything/are you still taking said combo?
 
It helped me retain fullness while cutting and improved overall bodycomposition over a 2 month peroid.


There, answered. I'm sorry if I don't get to it in the timeframe you want.
 
One thing to be aware of regarding Arginine...a couple years ago and I tried V12 - my shoulders broke out something awful. Big, painful acne that wouldnt go away for months. I kind of blew it off, thinking it may have been HPTA returning to normal after a recent 1t/4ad cycle.

Well, I started cutting a while ago and incorporated arginine/lysine a 6g/day as part of my supplement regimen. Within 2 weeks, I had bad acne across my upper abdomen and on my right shoulder and upper arm. I discontinued the Arginine and the acne faded over the next couple of weeks and hasnt returned.

Ive never heard of this being a side effect of high-dose arginine, but my body dosent seem to like it at all.

BUT, I must say my muscles felt rock hard all day long while I was on it.

BV
 
Sorry if I irritated you Bobo (I like that 'No' you posted first). Curiosity and impatience is an annoying combination. That does suck BigV. Still...thinking I might give it a shot.
 
Big V - I thought the same thing, but I've been off the arg/lys (5 g/day of both) for 3 weeks now. I had a bad breakout the other day. So, I attribute it to Bobo kicking my ass in the gym!
 
TheCrownedOne said:
Sorry if I irritated you Bobo (I like that 'No' you posted first). Curiosity and impatience is an annoying combination. That does suck BigV. Still...thinking I might give it a shot.
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I was going to leave it, then I felt guilty. Having a conscience sucks.
 
DID U GUYS KNOW TYROSINE WHEN TAKEN ITS CONVERTED INTO L-DOPA WHICH IS THEN CONVERTED INTO DOPAMINE WHICH THEN CAUSES AN INCREASE IN GH LEVELS

BY THE WAY IVE HAD CRAZY DREAMS W/TYROSINE
 
rochabp said:
DID U GUYS KNOW TYROSINE WHEN TAKEN ITS CONVERTED INTO L-DOPA WHICH IS THEN CONVERTED INTO DOPAMINE WHICH THEN CAUSES AN INCREASE IN GH LEVELS

BY THE WAY IVE HAD CRAZY DREAMS W/TYROSINE
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phenylalanine converts to tyrosine, so it converts eventually to l-dopa as well

mucuna pruriens contains L-Dopa naturally and increases gh levels

Alpha GPC increases gh levels

a lot of B-vitamins and co-factors, if taken in the right combination, can also cause an eventual boost in GH, through indirect means
 
The combination of arginine pyroglutamate and lysine makes a very effective GH releaser.
A study published in 1981 used a special form of arginine (arginine pyroglutamate), in combination with lysine (another amino acid), to induce a significant GH release when taken orally in relatively small amounts. Fifteen healthy male subjects, aged 15 to 20 years old, were given 1,200 mg of arginine pyroglutamate combined with 1,200 mg of L-lysine hydrochloride. The results of this specific combination were spectacular, causing a large GH release that was sustained for several hours. (Abstract)

This breakthrough paper has often been misquoted and discounted, as several other researchers failed to replicate the results.

Unfortunately, these subsequent researchers used arginine hydrochloride and NOT arginine pyroglutamate, which was used with great results in the original study in 1981. This is disappointing, as it had been known since 1977 that the specific chelate of arginine and pyroglutamic acid (arginine pyroglutamate) had effects on the body that are not shared by arginine or pyroglutamic acid when taken individually or together.

No nutritional supplement has shown equivalent results to the combination of arginine pyroglutamate and lysine for releasing significant amounts of biologically active GH when taken orally in small doses. Interestingly, when both arginine pyroglutamate and lysine are taken individually, even in large doses, they are not effective.16 It is the specific combination of arginine pyroglutamate and lysine, taken in the proper ratio, which makes a very effective GH releaser.
 
the only issue i see, with what MAxximal said, is finding arginine in the proper form (pyroglutamate). i have never seen, nor do i believe you can even find it open to the masses, (unless you buy it from some specialty place). hmmm.... so i guess my arginine free form powder with some lysine wouldn't do the job?
 
nynone said:
the only issue i see, with what MAxximal said, is finding arginine in the proper form (pyroglutamate). i have never seen, nor do i believe you can even find it open to the masses, (unless you buy it from some specialty place). hmmm.... so i guess my arginine free form powder with some lysine wouldn't do the job?
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Ohh yeah i put my wishes!!!

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haha, well i guess we all could try the free form, or la-akg and see if we all start having symptoms of excessive hgh lol. i doubt it will work though.
 
i have never heard of this combination, although I do recall reading that arginine pyroglutamate can can cross the blood brain barrier. for this reason some claim it enhances cognitive ability and this could likely be the reason no other forms of arginine have achieved these results
also, there is a company offering "pharmaceutical grade" arg pyr for an excellent price (100g/17$). just google it. its the first sponsored link
 
arowji said:
i have never heard of this combination, although I do recall reading that arginine pyroglutamate can can cross the blood brain barrier. for this reason some claim it enhances cognitive ability and this could likely be the reason no other forms of arginine have achieved these results
also, there is a company offering "pharmaceutical grade" arg pyr for an excellent price (100g/17$). just google it. its the first sponsored link
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Ohhh yeah i see that!

This is the same ingredient has in LG I-GH1 @ 7 caps before bed not is co$t effective:dunno:
 
MAxximal said:
Ohh yeah i put my wishes!!!

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ive been taking the arginine alphaketoglutaratefor a while now as i had heaps of bottles that i got cheap and noticed nothing, now i know why, i would like to try this other type at some stage as im hoping an increase in GH might help my joints and injuries
 
This stuff looks solid (Pro-GH Manufactured by: NOW Foods ) but DAMN IT has carbs and sugars (that negate the GH response) so too bad!
as soon as blood glucose and insulin levels rise, GH levels will drop back down, as insulin acts to suppress GH secretion!!!!!
The only window for GH secretion is on INTENSE EXERCISE and IN THE BED so Keeping carbohydrate intake to a minimum after exercise
will keep blood glucose and insulin levels down and GH up for a longer period of time.

look:

Calories 40
Total Carbohydrate 11 g 4%
Sugars 10 g
L-Arginine 1.5 g
L-Ornithine (from L-Ornithine HCl) 1.5 g
L-Lysine (from L-Lysine HCl) 500 mg
L-Glutamine 2.0 g
L-Glycine 2.0 g
GABA (Gamma Aminobutyric Acid) 500 mg
Stevia Extract (Stevia rebaudiana) (Leaf) (min. 80% Glucosylsteviosides) 75 mg

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well looks like i'm gonna have to quit intaking those carbs after the gym, and start driving home like a zombie lol
 
right, yes or no, works or not...
Comparing those aminos to gaba, l-dopa and others hgh releasers.... how would it be?
Will a pro hgh product be better desing if it contains aminos (arginine in its best way piroglutarato..., lysine, ornitine, glutamine...) plus gaba, l-dopa, green tea... or not? Or the superiority of l-dopa and gaba, and green tea makes aminos not necessary??
Sorry by my english!!
PS. I've made my home-brew hgh-releaser desing idea:

L-arginine-alphapiroglutarate: 5g
L-ornitina: 1g
L-lysine: 3g
L-glutamine: 5g
L-tirosine: 2g
Gaba: 3g
Mucuna Pruriens: 400mg
Green tea: 200mg
ZMA complex
selenium: 50mcg
passiflora sp or melatonim or valeriam root for sleep induce

what about that? :D
 
anbes said:
right, yes or no, works or not...
Comparing those aminos to gaba, l-dopa and others hgh releasers.... how would it be?
Will a pro hgh product be better desing if it contains aminos (arginine in its best way piroglutarato..., lysine, ornitine, glutamine...) plus gaba, l-dopa, green tea... or not? Or the superiority of l-dopa and gaba, and green tea makes aminos not necessary??
Sorry by my english!!
PS. I've made my home-brew hgh-releaser desing idea:

L-arginine-alphapiroglutarate: 5g
L-ornitina: 1g
L-lysine: 3g
L-glutamine: 5g
L-tirosine: 2g
Gaba: 3g
Mucuna Pruriens: 400mg
Green tea: 200mg
ZMA complex
selenium: 50mcg
passiflora sp or melatonim or valeriam root for sleep induce

what about that? :D
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L-arginine-alphapiroglutarate: 5g
L-ornitina: 1g
L-lysine: 3g
L-glutamine: 5g
L-tirosine: 2g
Gaba: 3g
Mucuna Pruriens: 400mg
Zinc (from Zinc Picolinate) 50 mg
 
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