Kratom users - Let’s kick it!

[Rebuild]

I'm not sure about the benefits of 'kicking' kratom.

Kratom has many benefits for athletes, as detailed here:

Kratom Use in Athletes

Kratom is one of those herbs that always seems to be on the periphery of the circles I travel in. Proponents claim that it’s a safe and…

web.archive.org

If you're super addicted to kratom and you're drinking it all and having constant constipation, yeah maybe I can see you wanting to quit. But if you're just using it sparingly, you should be just fine. If you're having constipation issues, just take some ZMA every night before bed, and the magnesium in the formula will act as a natural and safe laxative.

No offense dude, but this is straight terrible advice. Kratom is an opiate and should definitely be kicked.

 

[StarScream66]

No offense dude, but this is straight terrible advice. Kratom is an opiate and should definitely be kicked.

If you would read the links I posted, you could see the benefits of using kratom sparing. For example, in placed in NSAIDs which inhibit protein synthesis.

Jut because something is an 'opiate' which kratom is not, as it is not derived from the Poppy Papaver somniferum, does not make it inherently dangerous.

People have free will to make up their own minds and ingest what they want. Guilt tripping people for using a substance that can be constituted as a recreational substance is an old way of thinking. This whole idea of drug prohibition needs to be made away and done with and terms into harm reduction. Something we do every day on this forum to help other people with their AAS needs.

Maybe people judge us for our AAS use and call us addicts. We shouldn't be the same to the brothers of our own ilk who are just experiencing pain and want to relieve it using a substance other than an rx opioid or an NSAID.

 

[mawalega]

If you would read the links I posted, you could see the benefits of using kratom sparing. For example, in placed in NSAIDs which inhibit protein synthesis.

Jut because something is an 'opiate' which kratom is not, as it is not derived from the Poppy Papaver somniferum, does not make it inherently dangerous.

People have free will to make up their own minds and ingest what they want. Guilt tripping people for using a substance that can be constituted as a recreational substance is an old way of thinking. This whole idea of drug prohibition needs to be made away and done with and terms into harm reduction. Something we do every day on this forum to help other people with their AAS needs.

Maybe people judge us for our AAS use and call us addicts. We shouldn't be the same to the brothers of our own ilk who are just experiencing pain and want to relieve it using a substance other than an rx opioid or an NSAID.

r
Kratom may not be derived from the poppy plant but it does fiddle with opioid receptors in the brain. If anything causes physical or psychological withdrawal and a need to increase dose to overcome tolerance is experienced, I feel that would be grounds for possibly entering "dangerous" territory regardless of legality.

Aside from that knowledge is power and nothing wrong for a single, select thread for those who see it as a problem to look for help?

...Not bashing you, not looking to argue.... just didn't see the point in knocking a thread that started with the intent to help those who found their habit to be a problem.

 

[StarScream66]

r
Kratom may not be derived from the poppy plant but it does fiddle with opioid receptors in the brain. If anything causes physical or psychological withdrawal and a need to increase dose to overcome tolerance is experienced, I feel that would be grounds for possibly entering "dangerous" territory regardless of legality.

That's true. If watch the video I linked above, it explains it in full.

Aside from that knowledge is power and nothing wrong for a single, select thread for those who see it as a problem to look for help?

...Not bashing you, not looking to argue.... just didn't see the point in knocking a thread that started with the intent to help those who found their habit to be a problem.

I suppose that's a fair point, and I apologize to anyone if they are trying to quit kratom and I came here to argue about it. I guess I'm just sick of all the anti-drug hysteria. I'm am member of both the The Drug Policy Alliance and the American Kratom Association (AKA). The Drug Policy Alliance advocates for a decriminalization of all drugs, sort of like what Oregon just did. At the AKA we believe that kratom saves lives, not ruins them.

I have a little recipe I've used in the past to come down off opioid addictions and I can share that here. It involves taking a blood pressure drug and passionflower extract and it really does work if you're seriously hooked and having withdrawals.

Passionflower in the Treatment of Opiates Withdrawal: A Double-Blind Randomized Controlled TrialS Akhondzadeh 1, L Kashani, M Mobaseri, S H Hosseini, S Nikzad, M Khani
Affiliations expand
PMID: 11679027 DOI: 10.1046/j.1365-2710.2001.00366.x
Full-text links Cite
Abstract
Objective: Clonidine-based therapies have been utilized as the main protocol for opiate detoxification for several years. However, detoxification with clonidine has its limitations, including lack of efficacy for mental symptoms. Accumulating evidence shows the efficacy of Passiflora incarnata extract in the management of anxiety. In our continuing study of traditional medicines, which have neurotropic effects, this plant had an anxiolytic effect, which may be used as an adjuvant agent in the detoxification of opiates by clonidine. We present the results of a double-blind randomized controlled trial of clonidine plus passiflora extract vs. clonidine plus placebo in the outpatient detoxification of 65 opiates addicts.

Methods: A total of 65 opiates addicts were assigned randomly to treatment with passiflora extract plus clonidine tablet or clonidine tablet plus placebo drop during a 14-day double-blind clinical trial. All patients met the DSM IV criteria for opioid dependence. The fixed daily dose was 60 drops of passiflora extract and a maximum daily dose of 0.8 mg of clonidine administered in three divided doses. The severity of the opiate withdrawal syndrome was measured on days 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 7 and 14 using the Short Opiate Withdrawal Scale (SOWS).

Conclusion: Both protocols were equally effective in treating the physical symptoms of withdrawal syndromes. However, the passiflora plus clonidine group showed a significant superiority over clonidine alone in the management of mental symptoms. These results suggested that passiflora extract may be an effective adjuvant agent in the management of opiate withdrawal. However, a larger study to confirm our results is warranted.

Passionflower in the treatment of opiates withdrawal: a double-blind randomized controlled trial - PubMed

Both protocols were equally effective in treating the physical symptoms of withdrawal syndromes. However, the passiflora plus clonidine group showed a significant superiority over clonidine alone in the management of mental symptoms. These results suggested that passiflora extract may be an...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

But, I do understand their is a recreational side to kratom and if you feel you are addicted to that and it is causing you problems in your life, then by all means, ignore me and go down the road to quitting and best of luck to you.

-SS

 

[Renew1]

If you would read the links I posted, you could see the benefits of using kratom sparing. For example, in placed in NSAIDs which inhibit protein synthesis.

Jut because something is an 'opiate' which kratom is not, as it is not derived from the Poppy Papaver somniferum, does not make it inherently dangerous.

People have free will to make up their own minds and ingest what they want. Guilt tripping people for using a substance that can be constituted as a recreational substance is an old way of thinking. This whole idea of drug prohibition needs to be made away and done with and terms into harm reduction. Something we do every day on this forum to help other people with their AAS needs.

Maybe people judge us for our AAS use and call us addicts. We shouldn't be the same to the brothers of our own ilk who are just experiencing pain and want to relieve it using a substance other than an rx opioid or an NSAID.

Brother, you don't seem to understand that some of these guys are in the midst of a terrible addiction to this drug, and are trying their best to kick it.

There are more than a few long-time members of this forum who have found themselves unable to kick this drug for YEARS.

I applaud these guys for trying to get their lives back, and honestly ... So should you.

 

[StarScream66]

Brother, you don't seem to understand that some of these guys are in the midst of a terrible addiction to this drug, and are trying there beat to kick it.

There are more than a few long-time members of this forum who have found themselves unable to kick this drug for YEARS.

I applaud these guys for trying to get there lives back, and honestly ... So should you.

Well, I had no idea some people had addictions to kratom that were that sever. I don't consider kratom a substance that can be seriously abused to the point of something like morphine/heroin or fentanyl. But I have been an opioid addict in the past myself, so I feel what these guys are going through.

So, if they do have a very serious addiction that is impacting their life and relationships, I wish them the best, and I highly recommend looking for the recipe I posted above. If you need some clonodine, I can hunt around for it, just shoot me a PM. I would recommend buying the Passionflower in a tincture. That's what I used when I kicked my opioid addiction and some along with some CBD oil for the pain that's going to come during the withdrawal.

A typical opiod withdrawal normally takes around 2 weeks and you basically have to prepare yourself. Buy a bunch of smoothies that are easy to drink or RTD protein shakes, and start coming off the kratom by tapering down. Once you start feeling sick, you're basically bed ridden for those 2 weeks and can only get up to use the bathroom and drink a protein drink. There's almost nothing that can help you sleep, except maybe benzos or Ambien. That's the hardest part I think.

After that, you'll basically sweat all night and eventually the cravings will be over.


If you find you can't quit on your own, I suggest you seek professional help for your problem.

 

[mawalega]

While this is bumped I would suggest anyone taking kratom supplement agmatine as well.

"Agmatine, a product of L-arginine metabolism, has been shown to influence opioid tolerance, dependence and withdrawal in animal studies."

Haven't gone through the thread so don't know if it's been addressed.

 

[StarScream66]

While this is bumped I would suggest anyone taking kratom supplement agmatine as well.

"Agmatine, a product of L-arginine metabolism, has been shown to influence opioid tolerance, dependence and withdrawal in animal studies."

Haven't gone through the thread so don't know if it's been addressed.

Agmatime is another good supplement for opioid withdrawal, as is DLPA.

Research Breakdown on Agmatine - Examine

examine.com

I've attached a copy of a study about DLPA that says the following:

DL-phenylalanine markedly
potentiates opiate analgesia – an
example of nutrient/pharmaceutical
up-regulation of the endogenous
analgesia system
A. L. Russell1, M. F. McCarty2
1Brampton Pain Clinic, Bramalea, Ontario, Canada 2Pantox Laboratories, San Diego, CA, USA
Summary In the author’s clinical experience, concurrent treatment with DL-phenylalanine (DLPA) often appears to
potentiate pain relief and also ease depression in patients receiving opiates for chronic non-malignant pain. An
analysis of this phenomenon suggests that it may be mediated, at least in part, by up-regulation of the ‘endogenous
analgesia system’ (EAS), a neural pathway that projects caudally from medullary nuclei to the dorsal horn of the spinal
column; when stimulated by chronic pain or therapeutic measures such as opiates or acupuncture, the EAS
suppresses activation of second-order pain-receptive neurons in the dorsal horn, and thereby alleviates pain. Since
serotonin and enkephalins are key neurotransmitters in the EAS, it is reasonable to predict that measures which
promote serotonin activity (such as 5-hydroxytryptophan and serotonin-reuptake inhibitors) as well as enkephalin
activity (such as D-phenylalanine, an enkephalinase inhibitor) should potentiate EAS-mediated analgesia – a view
consistent with much previous medical research. Comprehensive support of the EAS with well-tolerated nutrients and
pharmaceuticals may amplify the analgesic efficacy of chronic opiate therapy, while enabling dosage reductions that
minimize opiate side-effects. Analogously, this approach may complement the efficacy of acupuncture and other
analgesic measures that activate the EAS. © 2000 Harcourt Publishers Ltd

Here's more about DLPA:

D,L-Phenylalanine By Andrew Novick - BitBin

D,L-Phenylalanine By Andrew Novick Antidepressant drugs that modulate the neurotransmitters serotonin and norepinephrine can often take up to 6 weeks to produce substantial response. This delayed response phenomenon is one of the most commonly cited fl

bitbin.it

 

[Rebuild]

If you would read the links I posted, you could see the benefits of using kratom sparing. For example, in placed in NSAIDs which inhibit protein synthesis.

Jut because something is an 'opiate' which kratom is not, as it is not derived from the Poppy Papaver somniferum, does not make it inherently dangerous.

People have free will to make up their own minds and ingest what they want. Guilt tripping people for using a substance that can be constituted as a recreational substance is an old way of thinking. This whole idea of drug prohibition needs to be made away and done with and terms into harm reduction. Something we do every day on this forum to help other people with their AAS needs.

Maybe people judge us for our AAS use and call us addicts. We shouldn't be the same to the brothers of our own ilk who are just experiencing pain and want to relieve it using a substance other than an rx opioid or an NSAID.

So fentanyl is not an opiate because it doesn't come from the Poppy Papaver somniferum? I stand by what I said.

 

[UNX]

Agmatine is great for tapering down Kratom. Memantine is better for kicking it, it can relieve all withdrawal symptoms but it's a extremely potent dissociative drug, difficult to dose and will make you feel weird.

 

[trumac]

Sorry to raise this thread from the dead but I've been over it a few times now and again found myself going through it. I know there is alot of talk about tapering, which is what I've been trying to do unsuccessfully from around 30 or a little higher gpd. Does anyone have any specific regimens they use for a taper, especially with BSO and agmatine. BSO does cut my dose down pretty well but I forget to use it often and just bumping it back up.

I'd love to see any specific plans anyone has used for a taper, I'd love to get down to 10gpd or less. I really like K but hate going up so much in dose. It would be great to get off completely, but I do find it beneficial in many ways. I always read less is more and see alot of these posts on here how guys have tapered from 30 or more a day down to almost nothing like 3 gpd. Thanks for anything provided and have a great day all!

I’ve used kratom but never had to kick it. But what I have had to kick is alcohol. I know tapering works for some people but for me it almost made me rationalize drinking. “Well today is 20 beer day so I HAVE to drink them all”. I haven’t found it useful for abstinence but I have for reduction. I’ve never been able to taper to zero drinking. I have been able to reduce my daily intake with it. Cold turkey is the only thing that I’ve been able to do to stop drinking but I always go back.

I’ve only read page 3 and 4 of this thread so I’m not sure if it’s been mentioned. I use naltrexone now to reduce my drinking. As kratom works on the opioid receptors I assume it should work as well.

 

[trumac]

Well, I had no idea some people had addictions to kratom that were that sever. I don't consider kratom a substance that can be seriously abused to the point of something like morphine/heroin or fentanyl. But I have been an opioid addict in the past myself, so I feel what these guys are going through.

So, if they do have a very serious addiction that is impacting their life and relationships, I wish them the best, and I highly recommend looking for the recipe I posted above. If you need some clonodine, I can hunt around for it, just shoot me a PM. I would recommend buying the Passionflower in a tincture. That's what I used when I kicked my opioid addiction and some along with some CBD oil for the pain that's going to come during the withdrawal.

A typical opiod withdrawal normally takes around 2 weeks and you basically have to prepare yourself. Buy a bunch of smoothies that are easy to drink or RTD protein shakes, and start coming off the kratom by tapering down. Once you start feeling sick, you're basically bed ridden for those 2 weeks and can only get up to use the bathroom and drink a protein drink. There's almost nothing that can help you sleep, except maybe benzos or Ambien. That's the hardest part I think.

After that, you'll basically sweat all night and eventually the cravings will be over.


If you find you can't quit on your own, I suggest you seek professional help for your problem.

Dude, you’re a member of AKA and didn’t know people had severe addictions to kratom? You could have just actually read this thread and seen that they do. I’m not trying to be a dick, you generally seem to be seeking more information and doing TONS of research and I respect that, but I think you missed the mark on this one by a lot.

It was cool that you admitted not knowing and offering some advice to try to help tho. I’ll give you that.

 

[UNX]

As kratom works on the opioid receptors I assume it should work as well.

Yes, but the withdrawal will be intense. Another thing would be the ultra low dose naltrexone protocol to lower tolerance.

 

[trumac]

Yes, but the withdrawal will be intense. Another thing would be the ultra low dose naltrexone protocol to lower tolerance.

Yes, but the withdrawal will be intense. Another thing would be the ultra low dose naltrexone protocol to lower tolerance.

Oh **** you’re right. I didn’t have to worry about that with alcohol but you’re right it will do that. Disregard. Maybe once someone is no longer using it can help with cravings but you are 100% right. Do not take it if you are using

 

[DieselJD]

Has anybody looked into hirsuta? Ive heard it mentioned in a bunch of places for ppl taking tolerance breaks, but not sure if itd help in kicking k.

 

[tyga tyga]

Star, have you ventured over to Reddit? If you’ve *never* known Kratom could become an abused drug then you’re choosing to ignore a wide populous.

 

[StarScream66]

Dude, you’re a member of AKA and didn’t know people had severe addictions to kratom? You could have just actually read this thread and seen that they do. I’m not trying to be a dick, you generally seem to be seeking more information and doing TONS of research and I respect that, but I think you missed the mark on this one by a lot.

It was cool that you admitted not knowing and offering some advice to try to help tho. I’ll give you that.

Yes, absolutely. The line I've always been told by the AKA is kratom is best used for withdrawing off of other opioids, and for a few other conditions. I had no idea people had such several impact life decisions. I've honestly never heard that with kratom.

If that's true, it's more than likely going to end up getting banned if people are getting addicted to it that badly.

 

[mawalega]

Yes, absolutely. The line I've always been told by the AKA is kratom is best used for withdrawing off of other opioids, and for a few other conditions. I had no idea people had such several impact life decisions. I've honestly never heard that with kratom.

If that's true, it's more than likely going to end up getting banned if people are getting addicted to it that badly.

From everything I've seen on it, it is very important to use in moderation. Like codeine and others many use it for chronic pain and, unfortunately, the long term, habitual use make it become a problem... Very similar to phenibut and how it's sold/used just for different purposes

 

[Renew1]

Yes, absolutely. The line I've always been told by the AKA is kratom is best used for withdrawing off of other opioids, and for a few other conditions. I had no idea people had such several impact life decisions. I've honestly never heard that with kratom.

If that's true, it's more than likely going to end up getting banned if people are getting addicted to it that badly.

It is ABSOLUTELY true.

And I believe that it will get banned, yes.

 

[StarScream66]

That's very much a shame users are abusing a drug meant to heal people of drug addiction instead of getting them addicted. Recreational usage in excess amounts to get high will just obviously lead to addiction and inevitably lead to a ban.

THIS IS NOT A RECREATIONAL DRUG!

This is a compound meant for use for times of pain and for those getting off hardcore street opioids.

It's just shocking to me what kratom has become.

 

[StarScream66]

Btw, here is a very informative video about a guy who was addicted to lean (codeine/promethazine cough syrup) and his tragic story. It also highlights why you shouldn't use Immodium (lopermide) as some type of withdrawal cure.

 

[Renew1]

That's very much a shame users are abusing a drug meant to heal people of drug addiction instead of getting them addicted. Recreational usage in excess amounts to get high will just obviously lead to addiction and inevitably lead to a ban.

THIS IS NOT A RECREATIONAL DRUG!

This is a compound meant for use for times of pain and for those getting off hardcore street opioids.

It's just shocking to me what kratom has become.

Most drugs ever to become addicted to, have been abused.
... And MANY who have become addicted HAVE abused.
But definitely not all.

Let us not forget that people also become addicted to things that they attempt to use "appropriately".

 

[StarScream66]

Let us not forget that people also become addicted to things that they attempt to use "appropriately".

I suppose. But that's something you can typically work with a doctor or a rehab center to resolve.

 

[Renew1]

I suppose. But that's something you can typically work with a doctor or a rehab center to resolve.

Yep.

... Rather than say ....
Taking a drug like Kratom, trying to self medicate.

 

[StarScream66]

Yep.

... Rather than say ....
Taking a drug like Kratom, trying to self medicate.

The question is: can you self medicate and control it. You have to have discipline to use potentially recreational drugs in moderation. You can read the AKA's Statement of Principles and see their opinion on the subject. You can also read their fact sheet advocating that kratom is actually saving lives and not destroying them.

We are currently in a very serious opioid crisis in this country. I can tell you that from personal experience. Kratom helped me quit and get off RX opiods. Kratom itself, is for all intents and purposes, unable to overdose someone. It's a much better experience than rx opioids where you can die from taking them.

 

[trumac]

I think this discussion should be taking place in its own thread. Knowledge is good. This thread was set up as a support group of sorts.

 

[Renew1]

The question is: can you self medicate and control it. You have to have discipline to use potentially recreational drugs in moderation. You can read the AKA's Statement of Principles and see their opinion on the subject. You can also read their fact sheet advocating that kratom is actually saving lives and not destroying them.

We are currently in a very serious opioid crisis in this country. I can tell you that from personal experience. Kratom helped me quit and get off RX opiods. Kratom itself, is for all intents and purposes, unable to overdose someone. It's a much better experience than rx opioids where you can die from taking them.

Brother, you are So full of crap!
I bet you think your poop don't stink!
.. if only everyone else were like you.
You have put others down throughout your posts in this thread.
What f'in junkies they all are!
A-holes who misuse this God-given, Heaven-sent, Glorious medication!
They aren't worthy of it!
They ruin it for everyone else!

Da*n Man!

I think you actually believe what you posted here, too.

SMH!!!

 

[chaz]

Has anybody looked into hirsuta? Ive heard it mentioned in a bunch of places for ppl taking tolerance breaks, but not sure if itd help in kicking k.

I was wondering about this myself, hirsuta or javanica, to be used as a taper to either lower dose or come off altogether. I'd love to hear more if anyone has anything. In truth, I take days off regularly. Although I feel like **** overall I never experience the horrible withdrawals others describe experiencing, such as diarrhea, vomiting body aches. Etc... I get a runny nose, bad anxiety (which I have already/ptsd), amd some times a headache. I also am rxd gabapentin for my back issues which I find when I take off or quit before nullifies any WD symptoms, especially if alternating phenibut.

 

[Rebuild]

Brother, you are So full of crap!
I bet you think your poop don't stink!
.. if only everyone else were like you.
You have put others down throughout your posts in this thread.
What f'in junkies they all are!
A-holes who misuse this God-given, Heaven-sent, Glorious medication!
They aren't worthy of it!
They ruin it for everyone else!

Da*n Man!

I think you actually believe what you posted here, too.

SMH!!!

Seriously, I can't believe that post by SS, especially after stating he used to be hooked on opioids earlier. What a lunatic.

 

[StarScream66]

Seriously, I can't believe that post by SS, especially after stating he used to be hooked on opioids earlier. What a lunatic.

You come here and judge me based on my admission that I used to be an opiod addict? That's a sad state of affairs for this forum.

Renew's reply I can't even make sense of, but there is an opioid crisis in this country. It can affect ANYONE. Someone you know is more than likely addicted to opioids right now and you don't even know because they're hiding it so well.

What I'm trying to say is kratom can be safely used to treat people who are addicted to rx and street opioids. It can save lives. But people are abusing it for their own pleasure and it's going to ruin this miraculous treatment for so many people.

 

[Renew1]

^^^^ ^^^^^

 

[chaz]

Ok more advice time. I am really ready to be done with this. Although I dont think this is horrible stuff like rx opiates or horse; it's like matthersby said I believe in a post, it's more of a nuisance than anything.. It's not destroying my life nor when I stop do I feel like I'm going to die. for sure its uncomfortable when away from it and it's annoying gulping down this vomitous sludge 4 times a day. I do believe that in the beginning it shines and has its benefits but after a while it wears its welcome out so to speak.

The problem is, before I made my OP, I ordered 200g of quality green hulk. Like I said, during what would be considered WD period, i dont feel like dying...uncomfortable for sure but usually gaba does the heavy lifting amd i actually feel great. I know from prior experience 3 to 4 days of gaba with some very conservative phenibut dosing I get through ok then it's just a matter of handling my preexisting anxiety which could also be considered PAWS. So I have other supps ready to roll such as SAM-e, 5htp, ashwagandha, l tyrosine, and my regular PWO stims and such. I also have some cbd amd D8, which I am very cautious with.

So the question is what to do with the green hulk when it arrives? It will be tempting. Should I try a quick taper or just toss it and charlie mike CT and be done with it. It will definitely be tempting. I knew it was coming, which is why I posted for advice on how to possibly quick taper it and ne done with it for good hopefully. Thanks again guys, this board is great. I don't post alot just search and read. Sometimes conversations on here go sideways but for the most part there are always great info, takeaways, and experiences to learn from.

 

[Sean1332]

Though not a book specifically on addiction, Atomic Habits is a great read for anyone interested in developing good or getting rid of bad habits. It helps me keep the right frame of mind to abstain from using/abusing kratom (& Copenhagen) again.

 

[Renew1]

Ok more advice time. I am really ready to be done with this. Although I dont think this is horrible stuff like rx opiates or horse; it's like matthersby said I believe in a post, it's more of a nuisance than anything.. It's not destroying my life nor when I stop do I feel like I'm going to die. for sure its uncomfortable when away from it and it's annoying gulping down this vomitous sludge 4 times a day. I do believe that in the beginning it shines and has its benefits but after a while it wears its welcome out so to speak.

The problem is, before I made my OP, I ordered 200g of quality green hulk. Like I said, during what would be considered WD period, i dont feel like dying...uncomfortable for sure but usually gaba does the heavy lifting amd i actually feel great. I know from prior experience 3 to 4 days of gaba with some very conservative phenibut dosing I get through ok then it's just a matter of handling my preexisting anxiety which could also be considered PAWS. So I have other supps ready to roll such as SAM-e, 5htp, ashwagandha, l tyrosine, and my regular PWO stims and such. I also have some cbd amd D8, which I am very cautious with.

So the question is what to do with the green hulk when it arrives? It will be tempting. Should I try a quick taper or just toss it and charlie mike CT and be done with it. It will definitely be tempting. I knew it was coming, which is why I posted for advice on how to possibly quick taper it and ne done with it for good hopefully. Thanks again guys, this board is great. I don't post alot just search and read. Sometimes conversations on here go sideways but for the most part there are always great info, takeaways, and experiences to learn from.

If you want to quit something you're addicted to, you can't keep it around.
That doesn't work, man.

 

[trumac]

If you want to quit something you're addicted to, you can't keep it around.
That doesn't work, man.

This.

 

[Hyde]

It’s the fallacy that we tell ourselves, that we paid for it so we have to use it. The crap we learned when we were forced to clean our plate before we could leave the table. All that **** did was help me get fat.

This is the same mentality we use to overeat, hoard stuff we don’t need, and generally waste too much of our lives on things that won’t give us back what we were hoping for.

If you know withdrawals from your dose won’t actually ruin your life and are just gonna be a tough spell for you, then I would toss it.

Can’t use what you don’t have.

 

[chaz]

It’s the fallacy that we tell ourselves, that we paid for it so we have to use it. The crap we learned when we were forced to clean our plate before we could leave the table. All that **** did was help me get fat.

This is the same mentality we use to overeat, hoard stuff we don’t need, and generally waste too much of our lives on things that won’t give us back what we were hoping for.

If you know withdrawals from your dose won’t actually ruin your life and are just gonna be a tough spell for you, then I would toss it.

Can’t use what you don’t have.

These are very wise words bro, that just dont cover kratom or any other addiction; but many other facets of our life. This is what sucks is that I'll take a few days off regularly, which include my gaba or a little phenibut. I'll get some great sleep, wake up refreshed with 2 days no kratom....hit my PWO stims with some dmha or dmaa..hit the gym hard get PRs feel great.(I train early am 5-6ish) I feel good no WD symptoms, low anxiety...and then am like man 6 grams of some Maeng da would really keep this rolling , and thus the cycle continues. I quickly get past feeling like **** and then jump right. Back in instead of just going with it. Like I said, i dont feel the hard symptoms some have described. Maybe I havent abused it long enough to feel that but always am of the mind that if I keep going It could be that bad amd need to stop, which I why I try to take regular days off. I know I'm rambling bit this thread has been really good. I'll update with what I do and how I feel. I know most dont care, amd I dont mean that to be offensive; however there maybe someone else in a similar spot that reads this and finds more motivation like myself.

 

[chaz]

Also sorry for some of the typos and paragraphs I swear my command of the English language is prime. I'm typing from my phone, which I really suck at.

 

[trumac]

These are very wise words bro, that just dont cover kratom or any other addiction; but many other facets of our life. This is what sucks is that I'll take a few days off regularly, which include my gaba or a little phenibut. I'll get some great sleep, wake up refreshed with 2 days no kratom....hit my PWO stims with some dmha or dmaa..hit the gym hard get PRs feel great.(I train early am 5-6ish) I feel good no WD symptoms, low anxiety...and then am like man 6 grams of some Maeng da would really keep this rolling , and thus the cycle continues. I quickly get past feeling like **** and then jump right. Back in instead of just going with it. Like I said, i dont feel the hard symptoms some have described. Maybe I havent abused it long enough to feel that but always am of the mind that if I keep going It could be that bad amd need to stop, which I why I try to take regular days off. I know I'm rambling bit this thread has been really good. I'll update with what I do and how I feel. I know most dont care, amd I dont mean that to be offensive; however there maybe someone else in a similar spot that reads this and finds more motivation like myself.

Just extend those days off man. You already know you can do it. Believe me I have the same cycle constantly with alcohol. Having it in the house...you’ll use it

 

[trumac]

I also would like to hire @Hyde to be the voice in my head. What’s your hourly rate?

 

[chaz]

Does anyone have any ideas for anxiety supps? I listed a few. I have SAM-E but I've never tried it. I felt pretty decent on 5htp throughout the day as well as with some other nootropics such as aniracetam. I've used phenibut on and off for years. No issue. Just once or twice a week. Has anyone tried picamilion, selank, or one I've been looking for at for a while NSI 189? My primary doc wanted to put me on lexapro years ago but I was like f@#$ that I didnt want to be on SSRI, but not I realize that may have been a good option.

 

[trumac]

Does anyone have any ideas for anxiety supps? I listed a few. I have SAM-E but I've never tried it. I felt pretty decent on 5htp throughout the day as well as with some other nootropics such as aniracetam. I've used phenibut on and off for years. No issue. Just once or twice a week. Has anyone tried picamilion, selank, or one I've been looking for at for a while NSI 189? My primary doc wanted to put me on lexapro years ago but I was like f@#$ that I didnt want to be on SSRI, but not I realize that may have been a good option.

I take Paxil bc lexapro gave me massive headaches for a straight week. If you can avoid getting onto an SSRI I would avoid it. If you NEED it there is no shame. Full spectrum CBD is great stuff if you don’t get drug tested for work. Micro dosing mushrooms is also a good option if it’s something you’d consider.

 

[chaz]

I really love full spectrum CBD. Especially lazarus health and some others I've tried. Delta 8 s also in this category which is even better but I avoid these because of tests it's a shame. I would not consider kratom if I could use these on a regular basis. They help pain even better I believe as well.

 

[trumac]

Time to try some microdosing

 

[cheftepesh1]

I really love full spectrum CBD. Especially lazarus health and some others I've tried. Delta 8 s also in this category which is even better but I avoid these because of tests it's a shame. I would not consider kratom if I could use these on a regular basis. They help pain even better I believe as well.

Have you looked into Kanna. May be an option if can’t use cbd.

 

[chaz]

Yes I've tried kanna. From liftmode and also from psychopharma, but only the stim one not straight kanna. I liked the liftmode. It's been a while, but I do believe it helped for sure. Kind of a wierd feeling though that's hard to explain. I may re experiment this. I've also never tried kava. Apparently happy hippo has very good kava that I may pull the trigger on. It's funny I'm usually on here to see what cycles guys are running or how to properly add in various peds, but recently I've been more interested in nootropics and mood enhancers.

 

[Hyde]

I also would like to hire @Hyde to be the voice in my head. What’s your hourly rate?

Just record yourself saying, “If I have to ask for advice if I should do it, I probably shouldn’t do it”. Problem solved lol

Does anyone have any ideas for anxiety supps?

L-Theanine. Cheap enough, safe, and you can take quite a bit of it if you’re inclined to I believe.

 

[DieselJD]

I found relief with theanine at half a gram. At that point economically pharma gaba, st johns wort or 5htp worked better for me.

 

[StarScream66]

I'm going to try my best to stay out of this thread since so many of you disagree with me. I feel kratom can be a very beneficial substance when used as intended, but I realize it has addictive potential. To those who are addicted and trying to quit, I apologize if I offended you all in any way.

My posts were more to try and defend the reputation of kratom as a potential life saver (which it can be) than to try and disrespect anyone who is trying to quit kratom.

For those trying to quit, I again, give you the best of luck, and check my formula I posted here for treating withdrawal symptoms.

Kratom users - Let’s kick it! - AnabolicMinds.com

I'm not sure about the benefits of 'kicking' kratom. Kratom has many benefits for athletes, as detailed here: https://web.archive.org/web/20170116224650/https://medium.com/@anthonyroberts/kratom-use-in-athletes-76cf080635f4 If you're super addicted to kratom and you're drinking it all and...

anabolicminds.com

I'm going to try my best to stay out of this thread since so many of you disagree with me. I feel kratom can be a very beneficial substance when used as intended, but I realize it has addictive potential. To those who are addicted and trying to quit, I apologize if I offended you all in any way.

My posts were more to try and defend the reputation of kratom as a potential life saver (which it can be) than to try and disrespect anyone who is trying to quit kratom.

For those trying to quit, I again, give you the best of luck, and check my formula.

Does anyone have any ideas for anxiety supps? I listed a few. I have SAM-E but I've never tried it. I felt pretty decent on 5htp throughout the day as well as with some other nootropics such as aniracetam. I've used phenibut on and off for years. No issue. Just once or twice a week. Has anyone tried picamilion, selank, or one I've been looking for at for a while NSI 189? My primary doc wanted to put me on lexapro years ago but I was like f@#$ that I didnt want to be on SSRI, but not I realize that may have been a good option.

It sounds like you are trying to self medicate. Take my word for it, I did that for years with any substance I could get my hands on that I thought might help my brain. Finally, after a major life changing trauma, I decided to see a psychiatrist and psychologist and I've never felt better. I found an SSRI that works good and I'm also on a benzo and some other drugs for the anxiety. I HIGHLY recommend you go down that path rather than self medication, but you can lead on a horse to water sometimes, but not make him drink.

But
Here are my recommendations for anxiety reducing OTC supplements. It sounds like you've tried some of them, but could benefit with others.:

• NOW Kava Kava is like herbal Valium. One cap works to get you feeling good, but 2 is also good. It has 30% kavalactones extract which is one of the highest extracts on the market and NOW is one of the safest and most trusted supplement companies out there. I also combo Kava with the next 2 supplements for added benefit. Kava is like herbal Valium. It works great for anxiety, as well as sleep.
• Lecithin Granules This one isn't so much a mood supplement, but it has fatty acids and tons of choline and inositol - both of which can sort of help depression and anxiety if taken in large enough doses, especially insoitol (see the article I linked at the very bottom for more information), but the main reason I take it with kava is because the kavalactones bind to the fat and make them more orally bioavailable.
• NOW L-Theanine 100mg Theanine is great for relaxation, anxiety and sleep. There's tons of good studies on it and they add some decaf green tea extract for added antioxidant benefit. The combo of Kava, Theanine and Lecithin will definitely give you a very strong anti-anxiety benefit.
• Phenibut Phenibut is a gabapentinoid and works well for an anxiolytic (anti-anxiety med). I really only use this one in emergency situations when I have bad anxiety. I think the 250mg Nootropics Depot sells is the perfect dosage and they have a completely pure Phenibut. Other companies phenibut I've tried, I wake up with a headache the next day and super groggy, but not everybody experiences that. Here's a great old article on Phenibut if you want to know all about the science behind it.
• Hi-Tech Somatomax is another great phenibut product. They advertise it as a GH aid, but it's really not for that. It has l-dopa in it and other ingredients that are going to chill you out really well. Just be careful with it, as phenibut can be addictive if you use it everyday.
• NOW Mood Support - This supplement can be very helpful for depression and anxiety. It contains St. John's Wort, which is prescribed in Germany as an anti-depressant, Holy Basil Extract, Valerian, which attaches to the GABA receptors like a benzodiazepine, 5-HTP which converts to serotonin, GABA itself, which obviously relaxes you, Taurine & L-Theanine which both have some benefits for relaxation and mood.
• NOW 5HTP - 5HTP converts to serotonin in the brain, so it's essentially doing what SSRIs are doing, just in a different method and in a different way. It's a version of the amino acid tryptophan, which you can also buy NOW Tryptophan 500mg. You can take these before bed as they will help you sleep, but you can also take them during the day to relax you and boost your serotonin levels. I'd recommend reading about all the different ingredients on examine.com and seeing which one might be right for you.
• Pregnenolone - Pregnenolone is a neurosteroid that was recently approved by the FDA for post partum depression in women, but it can also work for people who are depressed and lonely. They have been studying it as a treatment for loneliness and it works great in some people, and some people don't have any benefit.
• CBD Oil - CBD has been shown to have benefits for anxiety at around 300mg. I buy the 83mg from the CBDistillery, which batch tests all their products for purity, quality, and the proper dosages. I recommend the full spectrum CBD that has 0.03% T H C. It works amazing for anxiety if you take about 2ml.
• Lithium Orotate - Lithium is a well known anti-depressant and natural mineral. This mineral has so many uses, I couldn'teven begin to list them all here. Just read this wikipedia article on it. You can start off with 5mg and work up to 20mg as long as your kidneys are working (get your blood tests regularly!)

Finally, I also highly recommend meditation. Using an app like Headspace daily to work on your breathing will help control your anxiety and negative thoughts. Fortune 500 companies are now teaching meditation classes in their businesses, because it's shown to increase cognitive function and has tons of other benefits. It's not a religious thing, it's more like breathing exercises where you just turn off your mind and focus on your breathing and after time it can really help.

 

[StarScream66]

I also wanted to include this video that shows both sides of the kratom article. That is all.