Kratom-hooked, Let’s discuss...

[YoungThor]

I think most on this forum are in a sense.

I work with this guy who is in his mid 40’s now but when he was in his teens and early 20’s he worked out at a boxing gym. One day, another kid at the gym came up to him and asked if he could get steroids. So my coworker went out and bought a bunch of vitamins. He brought them back to the gym and sold them to the kid. He gave this kid an exact cycle plan, telling him when to take what pills and how many he should take. This kid ended up getting jacked very quickly. He was hitting the weights everyday on top of his boxing training. He’d shovel high protein foods into his mouth and got super strong.

It just goes to show how powerful the mind is. All he took was vitamins but he was 100% convinced he was on steroids. He wanted to run another cycle immediately so my coworker sold him one more round and then decided he couldn’t keep f*cking with this naive kid.

 

[RickyBlobby]

Wow. lol

 

[kisaj]

kisaj Kratom is an opioid (natural) but not an opiate (synthetic or derived). Either way it acts just like an opiate in the brain.

I feel that is partially correct. As there is discussion on dependency and tolerance here, it should be mentioned that there is more to it.

An opioid is a broad term to describe a substance that hits the opioid receptors, but the important part here is that there are multiple pathways. A full agonist will active all of the pathways, including the activation of molecule called beta-arrestin which is associated with the dangerous aspects of opiods like depressed breathing, tolerance, dependence, etc.. Mitragynine, the active ingredient in kratom, is considered a partial agonist because it does not activate the second pathway associated with recruiting beta-arrestin. But, it does activate the pathway associated with pain relief.

Additionally, there is belief that people who have been addicted to opiates or true opioids in the past, have a higher chance of feeling physical dependence even though the pathway isn't activated. I don't quite understand this, but anecdotally, it seems there is something there.

This is the biggest argument with the FDA classification as an opioid from the kratom community. It is also somewhat contradictory because they are classifying it as such, yet studying it to help with pain management due to it's ability to help with this and not activate the dangerous pathways associated with opiods.

A couple of links with good info.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/27556704/
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/opioid-epidemic-spurs-search-new-safer-painkillers

 

[YoungThor]

I feel that is partially correct. As there is discussion on dependency and tolerance here, it should be mentioned that there is more to it.

An opioid is a broad term to describe a substance that hits the opioid receptors, but the important part here is that there are multiple pathways. A full agonist will active all of the pathways, including the activation of molecule called beta-arrestin which is associated with the dangerous aspects of opiods like depressed breathing, tolerance, dependence, etc.. Mitragynine, the active ingredient in kratom, is considered a partial agonist because it does not activate the second pathway associated with recruiting beta-arrestin. But, it does activate the pathway associated with pain relief.

Additionally, there is belief that people who have been addicted to opiates or true opioids in the past, have a higher chance of feeling physical dependence even though the pathway isn't activated. I don't quite understand this, but anecdotally, it seems there is something there.

This is the biggest argument with the FDA classification as an opioid from the kratom community. It is also somewhat contradictory because they are classifying it as such, yet studying it to help with pain management due to it's ability to help with this and not activate the dangerous pathways associated with opiods.

A couple of links with good info.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/27556704/
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/opioid-epidemic-spurs-search-new-safer-painkillers

I can see why the kratom community would want to shed the term “opioid” because we’ve been taught to think opioid means bad drug. So if it’s a partial agonist it’s essentially a weaker opioid, which we already know for certain. It is a strange drug, especially considering it’s an opioid that has a ceiling effect, while all other opioids just get you higher and eventually kill you if you continue to increase the dose. Unfortunately, for political reasons, we get caught up playing a game of semantics. This is obviously because the general public associates the term opioid or opiate with addiction and death but all these drugs do have medical value and don’t automatically lead to destruction just because they fit a specific drug classification.

 

[YoungThor]

I’ve finally quit cold turkey. I was eating up to 5 lbs of cold turkey a day. It was destroying my palate and destroying me financially. I wasn’t able to stop cold turkey on my own though. I visit my butcher every morning for deli meat replacement therapy.

 

[kisaj]

I can see why the kratom community would want to shed the term “opioid” because we’ve been taught to think opioid means bad drug. So if it’s a partial agonist it’s essentially a weaker opioid, which we already know for certain. It is a strange drug, especially considering it’s an opioid that has a ceiling effect, while all other opioids just get you higher and eventually kill you if you continue to increase the dose. Unfortunately, for political reasons, we get caught up playing a game of semantics. This is obviously because the general public associates the term opioid or opiate with addiction and death but all these drugs do have medical value and don’t automatically lead to destruction just because they fit a specific drug classification.

Well said. Reps

 

[RickyBlobby]

I’ve finally quit cold turkey. I was eating up to 5 lbs of cold turkey a day. It was destroying my palate and destroying me financially. I wasn’t able to stop cold turkey on my own though. I visit my butcher every morning for deli meat replacement therapy.

So brave if you. Hope you didn’t sub for hot beef though I heard that’s a bitch to quit. Especially hot beef injections

 

[rtmilburn]

I can see why the kratom community would want to shed the term “opioid” because we’ve been taught to think opioid means bad drug. So if it’s a partial agonist it’s essentially a weaker opioid, which we already know for certain. It is a strange drug, especially considering it’s an opioid that has a ceiling effect, while all other opioids just get you higher and eventually kill you if you continue to increase the dose. Unfortunately, for political reasons, we get caught up playing a game of semantics. This is obviously because the general public associates the term opioid or opiate with addiction and death but all these drugs do have medical value and don’t automatically lead to destruction just because they fit a specific drug classification.

Well actually if you do an extraction for Mitragynine, than expose it to mild heat and UV light it will turn it into 7-hydroxymitragynine. Which is you a very potent opioid, not quite as strong as traditionals opiod but still. It also doesn't have a limit to it like kratom. It even is a super easy extraction, if you know what your doing. Pluse there are even some guides on how to do this online

 

[YoungThor]

Well actually if you do an extraction for Mitragynine, than expose it to mild heat and UV light it will turn it into 7-hydroxymitragynine. Which is you a very potent opioid, not quite as strong as traditionals opiod but still. It also doesn't have a limit to it like kratom. It even is a super easy extraction, if you know what your doing. Pluse there are even some guides on how to do this online

That’s probably why extracts feel so strong sometimes. Some of them are almost comparable to a Percocet. Kratom leaf is never as strong for me in terms of painkilling effect. But leaf can be more euphoric than extracts because some of the happy chemicals get lost in the extraction process. At least that’s my guess.

 

[rtmilburn]

That’s probably why extracts feel so strong sometimes. Some of them are almost comparable to a Percocet. Kratom leaf is never as strong for me in terms of painkilling effect. But leaf can be more euphoric than extracts because some of the happy chemicals get lost in the extraction process. At least that’s my guess.

Almost all extracts are not done like this, they are usually whole plant extracts. Which is nothing like isolated 7-hydroxymitragynine

 

[Matthersby]

Dip, kratom, kpins, trt, ultra or ipa’s, coffee (I assume)

Dude, eliminate your chemical dependencies one at a time haha. Your a walking laboratory right now.

Just food for thought. Most of us have excessive tendencies(although the smart ones have realized with AAS, more is less sometimes) but nonetheless, in other areas in our lives we do things recklessly, or at least I know I do. I take Kratom by the handful every 3 hours. I chew nicotine gum throughout the day. Last week, I started getting some Dymethazine lethargy, so I upped my test dose, and dropped my Prami altogether. Now, after my usual pot of coffee every day, I’m drinking a sf energy drink every 2 hours, if It ends up too much, I eat a half a Valium. I do this until I swallow 4 Benadryl at night or more Valium. And the next day I was up like a truck hit me and continue the cycle trying to feel “good”.

This shyt has got to stop for me. My gf is pretty fu(king sick of it too. I’m at Urgent Care, where I gave them all my “usual” symptoms to have what I want checked. But more importantly make sure nothing else is wrong.

I’m going to taper aggressively off the Kratom, off the caffeine, off the nicotine gum, off the oral steroids, cleanse my system, and try to live a normal life. This is fu(ked...

 

[rtmilburn]

Just food for thought. Most of us have excessive tendencies(although the smart ones have realized with AAS, more is less sometimes) but nonetheless, in other areas in our lives we do things recklessly, or at least I know I do. I take Kratom by the handful every 3 hours. I chew nicotine gum throughout the day. Last week, I started getting some Dymethazine lethargy, so I upped my test dose, and dropped my Prami altogether. Now, after my usual pot of coffee every day, I’m drinking a sf energy drink every 2 hours, if It ends up too much, I eat a half a Valium. I do this until I swallow 4 Benadryl at night or more Valium. And the next day I was up like a truck hit me and continue the cycle trying to feel “good”.

This shyt has got to stop for me. My gf is pretty fu(king sick of it too. I’m at Urgent Care, where I gave them all my “usual” symptoms to have what I want checked. But more importantly make sure nothing else is wrong.

I’m going to taper aggressively off the Kratom, off the caffeine, off the nicotine gum, off the oral steroids, cleanse my system, and try to live a normal life. This is fu(ked...

I feel the same. Honestly I would start with kicking Benadryl. I used to take it for insomnia everyday. I still stopped and I feel night and day better. No doubt it was making me depression anxious and feeling absolutely run down day I and day out. It was the best choice I ever made.

 

[RickyBlobby]

Just food for thought. Most of us have excessive tendencies(although the smart ones have realized with AAS, more is less sometimes) but nonetheless, in other areas in our lives we do things recklessly, or at least I know I do. I take Kratom by the handful every 3 hours. I chew nicotine gum throughout the day. Last week, I started getting some Dymethazine lethargy, so I upped my test dose, and dropped my Prami altogether. Now, after my usual pot of coffee every day, I’m drinking a sf energy drink every 2 hours, if It ends up too much, I eat a half a Valium. I do this until I swallow 4 Benadryl at night or more Valium. And the next day I was up like a truck hit me and continue the cycle trying to feel “good”.

This shyt has got to stop for me. My gf is pretty fu(king sick of it too. I’m at Urgent Care, where I gave them all my “usual” symptoms to have what I want checked. But more importantly make sure nothing else is wrong.

I’m going to taper aggressively off the Kratom, off the caffeine, off the nicotine gum, off the oral steroids, cleanse my system, and try to live a normal life. This is fu(ked...

At least we aren’t sucking d to support a smack habit . It could be worse bro!

 

[YoungThor]

My cousin was sucking d to support his hot beef injection habit but he dead now

 

[rtmilburn]

At least we aren’t sucking d to support a smack habit . It could be worse bro!

Well you don't

 

[YoungThor]

For those who are really serious about getting clean, you always have the option to try ibogaine treatment.

 

[rtmilburn]

For those who are really serious about getting clean, you always have the option to try ibogaine treatment.

Well any psychedelic honestly. LSD and shrooms (and I'm sure dmt too) also seems to also have a profound effect on quitting addictions

 

[YoungThor]

Well any psychedelic honestly. LSD and shrooms (and I'm sure dmt too) also seems to also have a profound effect on quitting addictions

That’s true. But all those drugs share with ibogaine is the psychedelic properties that help you get clean. They give such deep, profound introspection. You’ll come away wondering why you ever used. The last time I used heroin I took mushrooms two days later and I never relapsed again. The trip was horrendous of course but it taught me a lesson and saved my life.

But ibogaine cures addiction in an even more profound way. There’s something in it that makes you skip over withdrawals all together. Shrooms helped me quit drugs because of what it did to my mind but it didn’t help my body skip withdrawals.

 

[christ83189]

That’s true. But all those drugs share with ibogaine is the psychedelic properties that help you get clean. They give such deep, profound introspection. You’ll come away wondering why you ever used. The last time I used heroin I took mushrooms two days later and I never relapsed again. The trip was horrendous of course but it taught me a lesson and saved my life.

But ibogaine cures addiction in an even more profound way. There’s something in it that makes you skip over withdrawals all together. Shrooms helped me quit drugs because of what it did to my mind but it didn’t help my body skip withdrawals.

Ibogaine will help you skip over the withdrawals? Why have i never heard about this before this thread? Ive been through WD so many times and i hate it. When im going through it I'll do just about anything for it to stop

 

[rtmilburn]

Ibogaine will help you skip over the withdrawals? Why have i never heard about this before this thread? Ive been through WD so many times and i hate it. When im going through it I'll do just about anything for it to stop

Because it's illegal and schedule 1. Whereas is 100% legal in canada, and can be bought in a store(has to be the right store though ahaha).

 

[christ83189]

Because it's illegal and schedule 1. Whereas is 100% legal in canada, and can be bought in a store(has to be the right store though ahaha).

Well fck it im moving to canada lol

 

[Matthersby]

I have looked at Ibo and pure DMT powder on the grey web so many times. I’m sick of needing some substance daily to make me complete.

 

[rtmilburn]

I have looked at Ibo and pure DMT powder on the grey web so many times. I’m sick of needing some substance daily to make me complete.

Don't look at that way look at it as a one time thing that can help you to stop needing to rely on a substance to feel complete. It's not the cure, you are the cure, they are just the catalyst.

 

[YoungThor]

christ83189 Ibogaine is a miracle cure for addiction. It skips withdrawals for several drug categories, not just opiates. It also skips withdrawals for nicotine and I believe alcohol. It does not skip withdrawals for benzos. It is also a multiple day, insane trip that can be a hellish experience but many people come out an overall better person. On the molecular level, it may be the most complex and sophisticated chemical ever examined by man. It can even cure Parkinson’s.
rtmilburn You seem to be very interested and well-versed in psychoactive drugs. You should check out Hamilton Morris’ interview on Joe Rogan’s podcast. Watch the second one, it happened recently. Have you seen his show, “Hamilton’s Pharmacopoeia?”

 

[YoungThor]

Don't look at that way look at it as a one time thing that can help you to stop needing to rely on a substance to feel complete. It's not the cure, you are the cure, they are just the catalyst.

Well said. These forms of treatment are only needed once.

 

[rtmilburn]

christ83189 Ibogaine is a miracle cure for addiction. It skips withdrawals for several drug categories, not just opiates. It also skips withdrawals for nicotine and I believe alcohol. It does not skip withdrawals for benzos. It is also a multiple day, insane trip that can be a hellish experience but many people come out an overall better person. On the molecular level, it may be the most complex and sophisticated chemical ever examined by man. It can even cure Parkinson’s.
rtmilburn You seem to be very interested and well-versed in psychoactive drugs. You should check out Hamilton Morris’ interview on Joe Rogan’s podcast. Watch the second one, it happened recently. Have you seen his show, “Hamilton’s Pharmacopoeia?”

This. Also have seen that podcast. It's one of the only substances that cannot be synthesized it has to be extracted.

 

[Matthersby]

Don't look at that way look at it as a one time thing that can help you to stop needing to rely on a substance to feel complete. It's not the cure, you are the cure, they are just the catalyst.

Sorry big guy, I meant for that to sound, that, yes I have looked into the one time use of this substance BECAUSE of my frustration of my daily addictions and my struggles with it. I’ve ended any life-threatening addiction like booze and oxy, with a lot of help from recovery; but where the magic happens in recovery is loss of ones ego and selflessness which is why dmt/Ibo appeal so much to me. Just scared to death of psychedelic drugs. I have panic attacks about time space and eternity when I’m on a strong strain of WEED! Who the hell wants to call 911 on weed?!?! So that’s my hesitation with doing a 2 day trip on DMT or whatever...

 

[rtmilburn]

Sorry big guy, I meant for that to sound, that, yes I have looked into the one time use of this substance BECAUSE of my frustration of my daily addictions and my struggles with it. I’ve ended any life-threatening addiction like booze and oxy, with a lot of help from recovery; but where the magic happens in recovery is loss of ones ego and selflessness which is why dmt/Ibo appeal so much to me. Just scared to death of psychedelic drugs. I have panic attacks about time space and eternity when I’m on a strong strain of WEED! Who the hell wants to call 911 on weed?!?! So that’s my hesitation with doing a 2 day trip on DMT or whatever...

Dmt is the best bet then it's 15 minutes max, if inhaled. Also panic attacks are VERY rare on dmt. Ibogaine is not recommend, it's at least 36 hours and is a not a fun experience.

 

[SFreed]

For those who are really serious about getting clean, you always have the option to try ibogaine treatment.

But what if you're addicted to being addicted? Serious question. I'm almost 55 and looking back on my life I realize that I seem to go all out on whatever I'm doing. Mushrooms, then cigarettes, then running, then amphetamines, then weightlifting, then alcohol, it never seems to stop. Which is what has stopped me from trying kratom. What makes a person do that?

 

[rascal14]

Dmt is the best bet then it's 15 minutes max, if inhaled. Also panic attacks are VERY rare on dmt. Ibogaine is not recommend, it's at least 36 hours and is a not a fun experience.

That sounds awful. My biggest fear is hallucinating because I just know I will have a bad trip.

Speaking of.. my parents were supposed to get me shrooms to microdose after my drug test. I need to ask them about that. Lol

 

[Newth]

That sounds awful. My biggest fear is hallucinating because I just know I will have a bad trip.

Speaking of.. my parents were supposed to get me shrooms to microdose after my drug test. I need to ask them about that. Lol

I quite enjoyed the bit, "my parents", I'm not really sure how to take that, interesting.

After work I'm so catching up on this thread.

 

[rascal14]

I quite enjoyed the bit, "my parents", I'm not really sure how to take that, interesting.

After work I'm so catching up on this thread.

They are big hippies lol and they waited until all the kids moved out to really show it.

 

[Cgkone]

I've shroomed with both my sons.

 

[Cgkone]

They are big hippies lol and they waited until all the kids moved out to really show it.

You guys would be hella closer. Its really a good experience if the dose is small.
1.5 grams is perfect..

 

[Newth]

You guys would be hella closer. Its really a good experience if the dose is small.
1.5 grams is perfect..

I've been doing this with my son but with alcohol, it's better than letting him learn **** the hard way at parties.
About a month ago I wasn't really watching the bottle and he got a lil carried away.
It was good to see him do what he needed to after getting too ****ed up, and not just passing out. Poor little ****er was in the middle of his first adult level life meltdown also.
Kinda made me proud hay.

 

[Matthersby]

But what if you're addicted to being addicted? Serious question. I'm almost 55 and looking back on my life I realize that I seem to go all out on whatever I'm doing. Mushrooms, then cigarettes, then running, then amphetamines, then weightlifting, then alcohol, it never seems to stop. Which is what has stopped me from trying kratom. What makes a person do that?

Get a clinical licensed nutritionist to analyze your DNA’s raw data...

It’s literally in our DNA.

 

[Dr.C]

I’ve brought up micro dosing shrooms with my colleagues for psych patients , the data is interesting . Also my first full day with no Kratom in about two weeks, very minor “flu like” symptoms but that’s about it , nothing bad at all. I heard it’s the extracts that make you detox hard , what’s the difference between the Kratom powder and extracts ? I’ve been getting my Kratom from a company called Etha , super clean stuff . Libido and good wood should start coming back here within a week or less .

 

[Newth]

It’s literally in our DNA.

Welcome to the rabbit hole brother... This is your new tool kit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacopa_monnieri
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centella_asiatica

Level the playing field first.

Edit: Also, micros before macros.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TcTIKDPu1I

 

[Solexsight]

OPMS gold caps are like a gift from heaven. It will DESTROY your tolerance, but 2 caps last 6 hours and give energy and bliss, as well as strength for exercising. They are addictive though.

 

[christ83189]

OPMS gold caps are like a gift from heaven. It will DESTROY your tolerance, but 2 caps last 6 hours and give energy and bliss, as well as strength for exercising. They are addictive though.

2 caps never did anything for me even the first time i used kratom after being sober from everything for 6 months with no tolerance build up. It took me 8 XL caps to feel anything the first time

 

[Solexsight]

Kratom is weird and gives radically different effects due to tolerance, empty stomach (optimal), potentiators (agamatine, magnesium, phenibut) and state of mind. Sometimes first timers don't feel anything.

8 caps of OPMS gold or the silver? The gold ones are a ridiculously potent strain of Meang Da which gives energy, analgesic effects, and euphoria.

 

[YoungThor]

Kratom is weird and gives radically different effects due to tolerance, empty stomach (optimal), potentiators (agamatine, magnesium, phenibut) and state of mind. Sometimes first timers don't feel anything.

8 caps of OPMS gold or the silver? The gold ones are a ridiculously potent strain of Meang Da which gives energy, analgesic effects, and euphoria.

The gold extract ones are crazy. Are you talking about those ones? Some people online speculate they’re lacing it with some RC synthetic opiates.

 

[christ83189]

Kratom is weird and gives radically different effects due to tolerance, empty stomach (optimal), potentiators (agamatine, magnesium, phenibut) and state of mind. Sometimes first timers don't feel anything.

8 caps of OPMS gold or the silver? The gold ones are a ridiculously potent strain of Meang Da which gives energy, analgesic effects, and euphoria.

My first time was gold. Every strain treats me the same. Never noticed any difference in effects or strength. Even extracts didnt effect me any differently so i never wasted my money on those after the first few tries. Tried all kinds of strains from all kinds of brands and one type was just as good as another for me. It was all just a waste of time and money for me. Glad i quit that crap. Got sick of having to dose every 3-4 hours just to feel normal enough to work and to be a dad. Seriously made me hate my life.

 

[YoungThor]

My first time was gold. Every strain treats me the same. Never noticed any difference in effects or strength. Even extracts didnt effect me any differently so i never wasted my money on those after the first few tries. Tried all kinds of strains from all kinds of brands and one type was just as good as another for me. It was all just a waste of time and money for me. Glad i quit that crap. Got sick of having to dose every 3-4 hours just to feel normal enough to work and to be a dad. Seriously made me hate my life.

Yeah the half life is unforgiving. You end up feeling like a crack head, constantly dosing.

 

[Solexsight]

Another imitator initially laced with tramadol, but that was many years ago. Someone got a batch and tested them.

The gold ones are the bomb. Take 2 on empty stomach, wait 30 minutes, and hit the gym. Tons of strenght and energy from those ****ers. Also make me horny as fck so I love 'em.

Might be getting banned due to FDAs crackdown initiated by the DEA, which failed to schedule earlier this year in Feb.

Seems like something that is natural and provides pain relief as well as a way to kick Opiates, was too damaging to big Pharma's bottom line as well as their strangle hold on their patients/ potential addicts.

SITSA would also give the attorney general unprecedented power to ban any analogue of an opiate or opiate like substance. Sucks big time. Call your senators.

I stopped drinking because of that green leaf.

 

[christ83189]

Another imitator initially laced with tramadol, but that was many years ago. Someone got a batch and tested them.

The gold ones are the bomb. Take 2 on empty stomach, wait 30 minutes, and hit the gym. Tons of strenght and energy from those ****ers. Also make me horny as fck so I love 'em.

Might be getting banned due to FDAs crackdown initiated by the DEA, which failed to schedule earlier this year in Feb.

Seems like something that is natural and provides pain relief as well as a way to kick Opiates, was too damaging to big Pharma's bottom line as well as their strangle hold on their patients/ potential addicts.

SITSA would also give the attorney general unprecedented power to ban any analogue of an opiate or opiate like substance. Sucks big time. Call your senators.

I stopped drinking because of that green leaf.

Idk if you're telling me to take 2 on an empty stomach. Kinda sounded like it. I know for a fact no 2 caps of any kratom product is gonna do sh1t for me. Trust me i took kratom for years and years. Ive tried it all. I was one of the unlucky ones to get hardcore withdrawal symptoms and had to dose every 3-4 hours just to stay functional. That sh1t ruined my life for the entire time i was on it. Never touching it again

 

[YoungThor]

Another imitator initially laced with tramadol, but that was many years ago. Someone got a batch and tested them.

The gold ones are the bomb. Take 2 on empty stomach, wait 30 minutes, and hit the gym. Tons of strenght and energy from those ****ers. Also make me horny as fck so I love 'em.

Might be getting banned due to FDAs crackdown initiated by the DEA, which failed to schedule earlier this year in Feb.

Seems like something that is natural and provides pain relief as well as a way to kick Opiates, was too damaging to big Pharma's bottom line as well as their strangle hold on their patients/ potential addicts.

SITSA would also give the attorney general unprecedented power to ban any analogue of an opiate or opiate like substance. Sucks big time. Call your senators.

I stopped drinking because of that green leaf.

I’m not really into it anymore because I’m a former opiate addict and get bad withdrawals from it. I quit kratom a few months back, and successfully didn’t touch it again. Then I dislocated my shoulder and got a small prescription for percocet and tramadol. When that ran out I started taking the gold kratom extract once every two or three weeks. Two of them equals around 20-30mg of oxycodone if you compare them.

And when I was taking kratom, I enjoyed working out on it but then one day I got super lightheaded, my heart was beating rapidly, I went pale, and felt like I was about to faint. That was the last time I worked out on it.

 

[YoungThor]

And those extracts are expensive. At the headshop I go to it’s 25 bucks for two pills.

 

[Solexsight]

Yhea the withdrawal isnt fun
I do on the weekends so its still potent. Helps me when Im partying so i dint drink.

I was drinking 1pint of vodka on the weekends each night, getting into fights, wreaking havok with my relationships and work.

I think Kratom is better but I have to keep that in check as well..

 

[YoungThor]

Yhea the withdrawal isnt fun
I do on the weekends so its still potent. Helps me when Im partying so i dint drink.

I was drinking 1pint of vodka on the weekends each night, getting into fights, wreaking havok with my relationships and work.

I think Kratom is better but I have to keep that in check as well..

Shyt, you were getting reckless. Recreational use of kratom is a far greater alternate to drinking a pint of vodka. I work with a guy who drinks vodka throughout the workday and it turns him into an overconfident c0cksucker and a fake tough guy. Every once in a while I need to check him. When I took kratom at work it just made me more productive and happier. You’re unlikely to do something dumb while under its influence.