Is Sarah Palin a Creationist?

Rugger said:
Oh, I thought the LHC was only going to theoretically explain how matter gains mass out of nothing. Dark matter? I didn't know it had anything do with with creation of life.
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They're searching for the Higgin's Boson, aka the god particle, a particle that bestows matter with mass.
 
Rugger said:
Oh, I thought the LCH was only going to theoretically explain how matter gains mass out of nothing. Dark matter? I didn't know it had anything do with with creation of life.
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Matter gaining mass is part of the Higgs Standard Model of elementary massing within nature; that is the creation of life. If the LHC elucidates the Higgs Bosons, that theory may be in part validated.

You've heard of the Big Bang, right? This seeks to recreate that; I would consider the Big Bang relative to the creation of life. :)
 
bioman said:
Teach science in the science classes and teach religion in the religion classes or at home or at church.
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:clap2: i agree. and this is how it is today.

i think that is why some people are so threatened by palin, they believe that with political power she may try to change this.
 
Mulletsoldier said:
How dare you beat me to it!

:hammer:
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Yeah but how does the big bang create functioning life. I'm sure it's on a webpage somewhere I'm just lazy. Also, even if the big bang is correct, how did it initiate itself? Obviously there's no LHC in space. How was space created? These are some of the questions I struggle with.
 
That boils down to whether you believe there HAS to be a beginning and an end OR the universe and it's compenents have always just BEEN.

I struggle with that myself. It's entirely human to not want to believe that existence has always just been there and will always be there.

I just blew my own mind.
 
bioman said:
Teach science in the science classes and teach religion in the religion classes or at home or at church. No need to mix the two in a formal setting as kids/people can go on later to make up their own minds with the information they have recieved. People who argue that creationism needs to be taught in the science classroom simply want to extend the power of their particular church. To this I say fine, but then we will also teach the Islamic version of creationism and the Pagan version of creationism and they will all be treated the same so if your Evangelical kid comes out of it a devotee of Islam, just remember that YOU tore down that wall.:twisted:
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You touched on something here. For a country that prides itself on civil rights and civil liberties and diversity we are completely ignorant of who we share the country with. It would go a long way in promoting tolerance.

Far too many people hate what they don't know or understand. Far too often we have agnostics and atheists spouting about faith based doctrine or ideology and they know jack sh1t about it. Likewise we have faith based idoelogists spouting about "other" faiths or other ideologies that they know jack sh1t about.

As a Christian there is much I don't know about other faiths or other ideologies. I think a religeous/ideologies tolerance and/or awareness class would go a long way in bringing understanding between this huge divide that our ideologies place between us as a country.

This is American man. The land of the free..the home of the brave...dammit! If we are going to be free to hate one another let us at least know who and what it is we hate. :D
 
dsade said:
When public schools take money from the Federal Government, they then become taxpayer supported. To use Federal Funding to promote a religion is a violation of the bill of rights' establishment clause.
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I'm not arguing that is the Supreme Court's interpretation of the founders intent. I'm arguing that that was not the founder's intent.

I'll reiterate my previous post: Public Schools all which taught religion, predated the United States and the Bill of Rights. When you scream bill of rights violation, you're quoting legal decisions made by 9 unelected officials, made almost 200 yrs after the Bill of Rights was written. Looking at it logically, I'd say the Supreme Court may have gotten this one wrong.

dsade said:
In addition, when laws were passed forcing children into school - where we are now discussing indoctrination into a religion via teaching of creation - that also violates the same.
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Community standards and beliefs should play into the curriculum of US Schools. If some town in Podunk, Montana wants creationism taught, let them. It doesn't mean it has to be taught nationwide.
 
RobInKuwait said:
I'm not arguing that is the Supreme Court's interpretation of the founders intent. I'm arguing that that was not the founder's intent.

I'll reiterate my previous post: Public Schools all which taught religion, predated the United States and the Bill of Rights. When you scream bill of rights violation, you're quoting legal decisions made by 9 unelected officials, made almost 200 yrs after the Bill of Rights was written. Looking at it logically, I'd say the Supreme Court may have gotten this one wrong.



Community standards and beliefs should play into the curriculum of US Schools. If some town in Podunk, Montana wants creationism taught, let them. It doesn't mean it has to be taught nationwide.
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And if Dirtwater, Mississippi wants Slavery...by god let them as well...after all, Slavery was around when the country was created, right?
 
I think what we forget is that a gbood percentage of public high schools have some sort religious course in their history curriculum. It is not based on a preaching type course, it is more for informational purposes, which is used to inform audiences that are most certainly not aware. Where I teach is a predominantly wealthy, christian area. However, since it is one of the highest rated schools in the state, there has been an influx of first and second generations of varying religious backgrounds. The religion course was very appropriate for this audience, as many have no clue about other beliefs
 
OMG Palin might be a Creationist????

Wait, what? The left always drags out this beauty right before an election? Oh yeah, thats right.

Too bad she doesn't believe that it is ok to kill another human being, as long as that human is inside of your body. It would really be good if she also thought that the killing of a convicted murderer is wrong, because it makes total sense to murder an innocent human and save the life of a killer/rapist. Oh, wait, no it doesn't that is terrible logic.
 
Rugger said:
Yeah but how does the big bang create functioning life. I'm sure it's on a webpage somewhere I'm just lazy. Also, even if the big bang is correct, how did it initiate itself? Obviously there's no LHC in space. How was space created? These are some of the questions I struggle with.
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Particles do not necessarily innately possess mass; Standard Model hypothesizes that a cataclysmic event is necessary to potentiate the 'massing' via the Higgs Mechanism: The action of the Higgs Boson, the elementary particle hypothesized to induce massing in cataclysmic events.

Believe me, you are not alone in your struggle with the above mentioned questions; that is exactly why Science - to this point at least - cannot invalidate a Master Creator hypothesis. However, within its reach is invalidating a Creationist Hypothesis.

I think it is as plausible as implausible that supernatural forces precipitated the creation of mass and so on - and from that point progressive evolution ensued.
 
dsade said:
And if Dirtwater, Mississippi wants Slavery...by god let them as well...after all, Slavery was around when the country was created, right?
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That was the original plan. There was a war fought over it.

However, it is a stretch to try to say that communities determining the curriculum their sons and daughters learn is akin to slavery.
 
RobInKuwait said:
That was the original plan. There was a war fought over it.

However, it is a stretch to try to say that communities determining the curriculum their sons and daughters learn is akin to slavery.
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you are still talking federal funds (my money) to further a religion. and the comparison was showing you that your principle argument is incorrect.
 
She worked for Six Flags as a cartoonist and in her off time she beheaded the stuffed animal prizes in the water gun booth next door.
 
There's a vast right wing underground movement of headless stuffed animal fetishists that may push her into power.

Quite frankly, it makes my skin crawl.
 
if she gets elected, the first thing she'll do is make stuffed animal beheading a required course in the public schools.
 
Rugger said:
What about my money?
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Nobody is teaching children that there ISN'T a god, are they..only how to think critically.

You don't have a problem with teaching children to think critically, using observable evidence and consistency, do you?
 
dsade said:
you are still talking federal funds (my money) to further a religion. and the comparison was showing you that your principle argument is incorrect.
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The principle is in no way the same. I wrote a long explanation, but erased it as apparently you didn't read the content of my previous posts so it wouldn't make a difference.

Let me ask you this: If a community of mothers and fathers decides they don't want their sons and daughters learning evolution in public schools, is this permissible?
 
RobInKuwait said:
Let me ask you this: If a community of mothers and fathers decides they don't want their sons and daughters learning evolution in public schools, is this permissible?
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3 words:

School Board Vote!!!

When curriculum goes through, it must be approved by the board of ed. If there is an issue, that is the road to take
 
Reaper329 said:
3 words:

School Board Vote!!!

When curriculum goes through, it must be approved by the board of ed. If there is an issue, that is the road to take
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So its appropriate for them to vote to not teach evolution, but not appropriate for them to vote to teach creationism?
 
One thing that I disagree with on here is Mullet's statement that the LHC and science has within its reach the ability to invalidate a creationist hypothesis. If, as some hope, the theoretical "god particle" is discovered, it then begs the question.....where does this particle which supposedly gives mass originate? If it takes the collision of particles which have mass to create a particle that in turn gives mass, what in turn sparked this original cataclysmic event?

The reason there is no unifying theory in physics is that under certain situations nearly all of the laws of physics break down. String theory, Super string theory, even relativety. Take quantum physics for example, in which it is possible to have a reaction prior to the precipitating action. This violates the most basic of the laws of physics.

The number of physicists and theoretical physicists who admit to some type of intelligent design is quite large. From Hawking, to Einstein and many others.

I know that I won't change anyone's mind and I'm not trying to, but for every scientific discovery which supposedly answers the mysteries of the universe, exponentially more questions are raised.
 
dsade said:
Nobody is teaching children that there ISN'T a god, are they..only how to think critically.

You don't have a problem with teaching children to think critically, using observable evidence and consistency, do you?
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They would be teaching my would be kids that humans came from some micrcosopic bacteria or some crap in stead of Adam and Eve.
So again, what about my money?
 
Rugger said:
They would be teaching my would be kids that humans came from some micrcosopic bacteria or some crap in stead of Adam and Eve.
So again, what about my money?
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Do you have proof that the entire human race was descended from some sort of bizarre incest such as the Adam and Eve story? I mean observable, objective truth?

They have done a regression on population growth, and within the supposed 6000 years of "existence" it is impossible to have a population of over 6 billion people descended from one initial mating pair of the human species...utterly.

And oddly enough, there IS evidence to overwhelmingly support evolution - hence why it is taught in SCIENCE class.
 
RobInKuwait said:
So its appropriate for them to vote to not teach evolution, but not appropriate for them to vote to teach creationism?
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was that in my post at all? just curious......

the board is elected to "speak for the people" in the district. If there is an issue it would get rasied at a board meeting and they would vote. However, from my experience, having been at many board meetings, creationism would most likely not be broached as a topic, as there are many religious private schools that would cover the topic, and many more moderate parents in districts would be against it
 
You can always take your money, move into a compound somewhere isolated and teach whatever it is you propose to teach to like-minded folks. You have that freedom.
 
dsade said:
Do you have proof that the entire human race was descended from some sort of bizarre incest such as the Adam and Eve story? I mean observable, objective truth?

They have done a regression on population growth, and within the supposed 6000 years of "existence" it is impossible to have a population of over 6 billion people descended from one initial mating pair of the human species...utterly.

And oddly enough, there IS evidence to overwhelmingly support evolution - hence why it is taught in SCIENCE class.
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You're missing the point again, but I'm going to be done with this thread.
 
bioman said:
You can always take your money, move into a compound somewhere isolated and teach whatever it is you propose to teach to like-minded folks. You have that freedom.
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cool...there's a box to check on the 1040 where they refund any money that would have gone towards the public school systems?
 
dsade said:
cool...there's a box to check on the 1040 where they refund any money that would have gone towards the public school systems?
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Exactly.

I know several parents who have to pay 20k a year to send their children to private schools. These are not rich people by any means and it stretches their budget. They do it because they don't think public schools are safe and they don't like what is being taught there. Just like every other American who pays taxes (who may or may not have kids), they are being forced to pay for an education system that is often times ineffective and teaches things that are against their values system.

Vouchers. Give public schools some competition.
 
Reaper329 said:
was that in my post at all? just curious......

the board is elected to "speak for the people" in the district. If there is an issue it would get rasied at a board meeting and they would vote. However, from my experience, having been at many board meetings, creationism would most likely not be broached as a topic, as there are many religious private schools that would cover the topic, and many more moderate parents in districts would be against it
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You're right, I took that out of context. I agree tho, most places would not adopt creationism into their curriculum. I think it is stupid and would not want my kids getting taught it in school. However, if I moved to Podunk, TX and everyone there was a creationist, I'd adopt a when in Rome attitude.
 
RobInKuwait said:
You're right, I took that out of context. I agree tho, most places would not adopt creationism into their curriculum. I think it is stupid and would not want my kids getting taught it in school. However, if I moved to Podunk, TX and everyone there was a creationist, I'd adopt a when in Rome attitude.
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I agree as a parent, a teacher and soon to be administrator (hopefully :) ) However, before moving, I would always check the district curriculum to see what the course offerings are. Would hate for my daughter to be placed in a situation like that.

However, if a course was offered like I described earlier, I would recommend she take it, it is always helpful to learn about all cultures and beliefs.
 
dsade said:
Do you have proof that the entire human race was descended from some sort of bizarre incest such as the Adam and Eve story? I mean observable, objective truth?

They have done a regression on population growth, and within the supposed 6000 years of "existence" it is impossible to have a population of over 6 billion people descended from one initial mating pair of the human species...utterly.

And oddly enough, there IS evidence to overwhelmingly support evolution - hence why it is taught in SCIENCE class.
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You tell 'em D!
 
Science isnt the work of evil people commisioned by satan set out to corrupt the youth.
Evolution is an accepted scientific theory...like gravity.
While I am not knowledgeable enough to defend it, I'm gonna take a leap of faith on it haha.

Science has looked at the available evidence, and currently feels quite comfortable stating that evolution is the only reasonable conclusion.

I dont understand why people want creationism in the classroom. And if it were taught in school, it would take five minutes to read off the small handful of vurses the bible has on it. Maybe we should set aside five minutes on the first day of every science course to read the first few pages of genesis so people will quit their *****in ha
 
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