IGF-1 LR3

[Smont]

If you thoroughly read my posts, I said there’s been a debate about which method is better.

Read your post? Debate? I didn't quote you or say anything about anything you said. Not sure what your talking about. I'm walking away from this thread. Good luck, I gave my opinion, but I foresee a train wreck at the end

 

[DinnerTable]

Even though I'm a "new member", I've lurked these forums for about 3 or 4 years now and Ive learned a lot. Through the various back and forths on posts like this one, I see perspectives and experiences being presented, so thank y'all as it helps me greatly.

 

[Smont]

Deca does not take 6-8 weeks to kick in, that's total nonsense, orals for at least 8 weeks, that's not very good advise and orals have very little place in a bulking phase anyway. Running deca higher then test, might work but it's usually a bad idea. Not to mention we just talked about not needing a ton of gear and now we're right back to 500 test, 600 deca and a oral, gonna be sitting on 1.3-1.5gm of gear.

 

[DinnerTable]

Giving your body fat Maybe by week 6 or 8:00 you're up to 600 total milligrams of beer and that's where you would finish out the remainder of your cycle for however long you wish it to be.

Gonna need more than that

 

[Smont]

I'm all for blasting gear, I'm not one of these guys that's gonna lie and say you will get fucking huge on a 500 test only cycle. But I'm also not about flushing gear down the toilet.

If you wanna run test and deca then run test and deca. Start low 300/200 or 300/300 and work your way up as necessary. Or **** it, just take everything but at the end of the day, your overcomplicating everything.

Building muscle requires a small to moderate amount of gear, a moderate to large amount of food and progressive overload in the gym. That's it. If you take 300 test/300 deca or 600 test 600 primo or 1000 test only it doesn't matter, results will all be similar because you can only build so much muscle so fast.

This is why we pick compounds that don't give us side effects and run with them.

If anyone thinks pro or top amature bodybuilders and coaches are sitting around trying to figure out elaborate cycles, there not.

If you acquired a good coaches help he's most likely going to tell you to pick whatever compounds give you the least side effects, start at the lowest effective doses and he will probably have you raise the dose every 6-8weeks, he will have no set amount of cycle length unless you have a limited time frame to compete or something, he will use your bloodwork to determine if you should go longer or cut the cycle short.

Pick your poison, run your cycle and adjust as needed

 

[Smont]

It's too early for me, maybe I'm just being a old grouchy asshole. **** it, everyone take 3000mg of test and call me in the morning

 

[Smont]

@saderboy80

Go on YouTube and look up anabolic bodybuilding.

Look up the videos on building cycles and escalating steroid doses.

Also look at all his critique my cycle videos and his personal experience videos.

Lots of fantastic info that's super easy to understand.

This guy went from competing at 180lbs, into a bulk where he got up to a fairly lean 270 and then competed around 230 his next show.

90 total and 50 solid pounds gained. He even has a full detailed video on everything he did

 

[FloridaMan]

I was thinking:

Test 500mg
Deca 600mg
Oral of choice (I currently have: dbol, superdrol, M1t, anavar, Anadrol, winstrol and some Sarms)

No need to up the doses, keep em low, and while sdrol is my favorite oral in the world. you should get back into the swing of things slowly lol save it for next time and maybe use dbol as a finishing oral.

 

[FloridaMan]

It's too early for me, maybe I'm just being a old grouchy asshole. **** it, everyone take 3000mg of test and call me in the morning

I learned the fun way that constantly upping doses is a waste of steroids. Learned that on 1.5g of test and 800 of tren. No need for your typical guy to go above 500mg of any one compound honestly. My body is absolute **** at absorbing steroids other than test, 60mg sdrol and it treats me like other people taking 10mg and my bloods look like I've just have a cheeseburger and a beer.

 

[Smont]

I learned the fun way that constantly upping doses is a waste of steroids. Learned that on 1.5g of test and 800 of tren. No need for your typical guy to go above 500mg of any one compound honestly. My body is absolute **** at absorbing steroids other than test, 60mg sdrol and it treats me like other people taking 10mg and my bloods look like I've just have a cheeseburger and a beer.

I'm not following you at all.

Upping doses as necessary is how you DONT waste steroids, starting at full blast is a waste because your not making use of the gear.

If it takes someone 1.5gm of gear out the gate then there diet and training is fucked up

 

[FloridaMan]

I'm not following you at all.

Upping doses as necessary is how you DONT waste steroids, starting at full blast is a waste because your not making use of the gear.

If it takes someone 1.5gm of gear out the gate then there diet and training is fucked up

I'm saying upping doses past a certain point is just wasting gear. There's only so much the body can take without it being wasted and turned into side effects instead of gains lol... Same thing with anything, idiots out there eating 400g of protein in a day thinking they are somehow using all 400g to build muscle/strength. Not unless your Brian shaw your not, literally none of us on here(maybe a couple guys? POSSIBLY) need grams of gear to grow, and it would be foolish to think otherwise.

 

[Smont]

I'm saying upping doses past a certain point is just wasting gear. There's only so much the body can take without it being wasted and turned into side effects instead of gains lol... Same thing with anything, idiots out there eating 400g of protein in a day thinking they are somehow using all 400g to build muscle/strength. Not unless your Brian shaw your not, literally none of us on here(maybe a couple guys? POSSIBLY) need grams of gear to grow, and it would be foolish to think otherwise.

Ok, it sounded like you were saying you don't raise the doses, you come out the gate on maximum doses.

But yes, very good point and something I'm always trying to make a point of.

99% of us on this forum don't have enough muscle to run 1.5+ gm of gear or eat 400 gm of protein per day. It's just a waste

 

[FloridaMan]

Ok, it sounded like you were saying you don't raise the doses, you come out the gate on maximum doses.

But yes, very good point and something I'm always trying to make a point of.

99% of us on this forum don't have enough muscle to run 1.5+ gm of gear or eat 400 gm of protein per day. It's just a waste

Haha it's too early in the morning man, I need coffee.

 

[Smont]

Haha it's too early in the morning man, I need coffee.

Haha it's too early in the morning man, I need coffee.

I been up since 230/3am and on like coffee number 4 lol.

I was trying to respond to a couple threads, respond to emails from a couple ppl I made programs for and plan out my day/week and my girl started making a list of things she needs me to do, kids woke up asking me to go get fukin cream cheese and milk. Before I knew it, 6 hours went by, I'm tired and aggravated and didn't get everything done .

Fantastic start to what's supposed to be my day off.... Somebody put me out of my misery

 

[FloridaMan]

Fantastic start to what's supposed to be my day off.... Somebody put me out of my misery

Hahaha what's that? You can never escape the honey do list my friend, luckily I ain't got the kid thing yet, did foster care for a few years though, nothing like a constant stream of babies to make you rethink life... I kinda miss it, if I didn't have to deal with the parents then it'd have been a sweet gig as I like babies. Glad I'm not the only one who wakes up far too early even on the off days. I hate my body for it

 

[Smont]

Hahaha what's that? You can never escape the honey do list my friend, luckily I ain't got the kid thing yet, did foster care for a few years though, nothing like a constant stream of babies to make you rethink life... I kinda miss it, if I didn't have to deal with the parents then it'd have been a sweet gig as I like babies. Glad I'm not the only one who wakes up far too early even on the off days. I hate my body for it

I don't have any issues with babies, my kids are 14 and 16 tho, there basically full grown useless assholes at this point in there life lol

 

[FloridaMan]

I don't have any issues with babies, my kids are 14 and 16 tho, there basically full grown useless assholes at this point in there life lol

LMAO poor fellas

 

[saderboy80]

Okay so 1gram of TREST a week right?

 

[mTOR25]

I literally stayed out of this thread because I really thought everyone w

I ran a cycle with: test, deca, eq, Tren, and anavar. That’s the one you missed.

If you are so high and mighty, what would you suggest I run then?

Granted a wanted to blast this cycle because like you said I have very fresh receptors and a lot of muscle memory. So why not use them to their full potential?

Dude you need to seriously stop acting like a child when people give you honest advice! No one is ragging on you personally we are just giving constructive feedback that you should probably consider!

I literally stayed out of this thread because I didn't want to continue with someone acting like that but I decided to hop back over and see what happened?

Smont gave you really good advice so hopefully you understand a bit better that the kitchen sink approach is unnecessary!!!

 

[saderboy80]

I literally stayed out of this thread because I really thought everyone w


Dude you need to seriously stop acting like a child when people give you honest advice! No one is ragging on you personally we are just giving constructive feedback that you should probably consider!

I literally stayed out of this thread because I didn't want to continue with someone acting like that but I decided to hop back over and see what happened?

Smont gave you really good advice so hopefully you understand a bit better that the kitchen sink approach is unnecessary!!!

I did. I completely understood what smont said and took it into consideration.

I still haven’t even started a cycle. I’ve only got 1 week of weight training under my belt in several months. (I did like 2-3 weeks prior to my injury, otherwise nothing since last January before my hernia repair).

So to be completely honest I think I’m going to stay natty for quite a while. Maybe some arachadonic acid and some natty test boosters. And just go for a few months.

I think that’s the best route for now.

 

[Jeremyk1]

I did. I completely understood what smont said and took it into consideration.

I still haven’t even started a cycle. I’ve only got 1 week of weight training under my belt in several months. (I did like 2-3 weeks prior to my injury, otherwise nothing since last January before my hernia repair).

So to be completely honest I think I’m going to stay natty for quite a while. Maybe some arachadonic acid and some natty test boosters. And just go for a few months.

I think that’s the best route for now.

Ah man I had a hernia repair in June. **** sucks. Staying off drugs for a while isn’t a bad idea. Look at Apex Ursa Major, that was phenomenal for me. Increased strength and fullness and a bit of leaning out. But it just made me feel fantastic. Like I wasn’t fatiguing during workouts and I generally felt more awake and alert throughout the day. I need to jump back on, but I’m experimenting with other stuff. I’m doing SNS Anabolic XT stacked with CEL Anabolic Effect, started in PCT after a PH stack, and my strength has continued going up. It leveled off after about 3 weeks, but still going up. No drop off after coming off the anabolics, which I think is a first for me.

 

[Smont]

Okay so 1gram of TREST a week right?

Daily, no estrogen or prolactin control, that stuff is for pussies

 

[Jeremyk1]

Daily, no estrogen or prolactin control, that stuff is for pussies

You mean topically? Stick it straight on the pussy?

 

[saderboy80]

Well my swole M-F*CKING friends. The ulnar nerve has impingement has taken a turn for the worse. Since I last posted on here I’ve had hand X-rays, neck X-rays, a neck mri, bilateral elbow to fingertip EMG test (tests nerve conduction velocity), seen 2 primary care Drs, 2 neurologists and 2 hand specialists (thank god for good health insurance). They are all pointing to bilateral ulnar nerve decompression and displacement at the elbow and wrist. Surgeries will be done separately, with 6wk recovery and 5lb limit with occupational and physical therapy. Probably give it a week or 2 after full recovery before the 2nd surgery.


So we are looking at another 14 g*d d*amn mother f*cking weeks of no working out.

I am asking for guidance, I have been natty for about a year now. So will continue that throughout the recovery process. But where do I put my caloric intake? Maintenance, slightly below maintenance?

I feel worthless and haven’t had a good regimented workout streak or cycle since the end of December of 2021.

Im thinking maybe like 100-200Cal below maintenance and I have access to a treadmill at home. So daily slow steady state cardio and lean up?

It would be possible to do unilateral upper body work and then legs (leg press, hip sled, leg extensions, hamstring curls, calves).


Im just at a loss, feeling worthless, seeking guidance and not sure what to do.

 

[saderboy80]

I also have some hgh, bpc-157, TB-500. But don’t know how much that would help with recovery.

 

[FloridaMan]

EXACTLY what I was going to add. He wants me to do it post workout before my post workout meal in the lagging body part or I guess as you said the body part you trained.

Lr3 is systematic though, localized growth was DES I thought

 

[FloridaMan]

Well my swole M-F*CKING friends. The ulnar nerve has impingement has taken a turn for the worse. Since I last posted on here I’ve had hand X-rays, neck X-rays, a neck mri, bilateral elbow to fingertip EMG test (tests nerve conduction velocity), seen 2 primary care Drs, 2 neurologists and 2 hand specialists (thank god for good health insurance). They are all pointing to bilateral ulnar nerve decompression and displacement at the elbow and wrist. Surgeries will be done separately, with 6wk recovery and 5lb limit with occupational and physical therapy. Probably give it a week or 2 after full recovery before the 2nd surgery.


So we are looking at another 14 g*d d*amn mother f*cking weeks of no working out.

I am asking for guidance, I have been natty for about a year now. So will continue that throughout the recovery process. But where do I put my caloric intake? Maintenance, slightly below maintenance?

I feel worthless and haven’t had a good regimented workout streak or cycle since the end of December of 2021.

Im thinking maybe like 100-200Cal below maintenance and I have access to a treadmill at home. So daily slow steady state cardio and lean up?

It would be possible to do unilateral upper body work and then legs (leg press, hip sled, leg extensions, hamstring curls, calves).


Im just at a loss, feeling worthless, seeking guidance and not sure what to do.

Just work out what you are able to, that is all, and adjust your calories as needed. We can't tell you some perfect formula because your activity level is going to vary week to week.

I'd suggest lots of fixed machines for squatting though, that way you don't need to load plates high up on a barbell. Hack squats, leg pressing, etc.

Bcp has shown in some cases to help heal nerve damage, so after surgery if there is any significant damage to the nerve from this whole ordeal it could help... Tb500 and hgh probably not as I'm pretty sure this surgery isn't going to affect your musculature much depending on which surgery technique they use

 

[Nac]

14 weeks? Id probably aim to lose bodyfat (so eat in a deficit) and then rebound like a mofo when I can train properly again. I carb/calorie cycle but Id still be inclined to take a diet break (ie eat at maintanence) around week 7/8 for two weeks.

 

[Mikereyn513]

14 weeks? Id probably aim to lose bodyfat (so eat in a deficit) and then rebound like a mofo when I can train properly again. I carb/calorie cycle but Id still be inclined to take a diet break (ie eat at maintanence) around week 7/8 for two weeks.

Yea that's what I would do, eat in a deficit, and then when yiu can train hard again ride that rebound like a drunk sorority chick

 

[saderboy80]

14 weeks? Id probably aim to lose bodyfat (so eat in a deficit) and then rebound like a mofo when I can train properly again. I carb/calorie cycle but Id still be inclined to take a diet break (ie eat at maintanence) around week 7/8 for two weeks.

So Right arm surgery Day 0, 6wk recovery w/ 5lb limit. 2 week break to increase that 5lb limit. Left arm surgery, 6wk recovery, then free to go. If I did my math right that’s 14 weeks.


I plan on eating in a deficit and have actually been researching carb cycling haha.

How much of a deficit would you recommend?

I’ll be doing slow steady state cardio on the treadmill for as long as I can without getting significant muscle atrophy.

 

[saderboy80]

14 weeks? Id probably aim to lose bodyfat (so eat in a deficit) and then rebound like a mofo when I can train properly again. I carb/calorie cycle but Id still be inclined to take a diet break (ie eat at maintanence) around week 7/8 for two weeks.

So Right arm surgery Day 0, 6wk recovery w/ 5lb limit. 2 week break to increase that 5lb limit. Left arm surgery, 6wk recovery, then free to go. If I did my math right that’s 14 weeks.


I plan on eating in a deficit and have actually been researching carb cycling haha.

How much of a deficit would you recommend?

I’ll be doing slow steady state cardio on the treadmill for as long as I can without getting significant muscle atrophy.

 

[Nac]

A 500kcal deficit is usually a good place to start.

 

[JKVol]

A 500kcal deficit is usually a good place to start.

500 thousand will definitely cut you up.


JK

 

[saderboy80]

A 500kcal deficit is usually a good place to start.

I would I agree if I was taking PED’s or lifting weights. But don’t you think -500kcal is a steep deficit and might cause more atrophy then what will already take place?


Or should I say screw the atrophy, do the -500kcal and get diced?

 

[saderboy80]

500 thousand will definitely cut you up.


JK

Kcal output > kcal input
Kcal input < 0kcal


Yes, Master Shredder!

 

[Nac]

I would I agree if I was taking PED’s or lifting weights. But don’t you think -500kcal is a steep deficit and might cause more atrophy then what will already take place?


Or should I say screw the atrophy, do the -500kcal and get diced?

I mean yeah do what makes you feel comfortable.

But any atrophy will quickly rebound once you start training and eating in a surplus. Especially if you also add PEDs into the mix.

To me a 200kcal deficit ends up getting lost in the noise of daily fluctuations of TDEE.

If youre genuinely concerned, why not start at 500 when you are at your most fattest, then decrease it towards the end when you are at your leanest (and when muscle loss will potentially be at its greatest)?

If you are also eating sufficient protein you will stack the cards more in your favour too.

 

[saderboy80]

I mean yeah do what makes you feel comfortable.

But any atrophy will quickly rebound once you start training and eating in a surplus. Especially if you also add PEDs into the mix.

To me a 200kcal deficit ends up getting lost in the noise of daily fluctuations of TDEE.

If youre genuinely concerned, why not start at 500 when you are at your most fattest, then decrease it towards the end when you are at your leanest (and when muscle loss will potentially be at its greatest)?

If you are also eating sufficient protein you will stack the cards more in your favour too.

I like where your heads at with this one man! I appreciate the explanation.

 

[saderboy80]

So my surgeon required a lot of bed rest for my elbow/wrist/hand surgeries. He “Didn’t want me to sweat, for risk of infection.” So I only got in a couple of weeks of cardio before my first surgery and between my second surgery.

My diet went to absolute ****. I went from 187lbs(day of 1st surgery) to 220lbs (5days post op 2nd surgery on June 18th). I then went in a very steep deficit and started counting calories (not macros though) but only eating Whole Foods (protein sources, vegetables, fruit, some rice and some oatmeal). June 27th I was 205lbs (with no cardio, just diet changes).

Here I am on July 14th at 190lbs. Diet still in check (not as steep of cal drop, but can do slow steady state cardio on treadmill) like 2-3mph at 15% incline is what I shoot for. Then exercise with 5lb DB’s (still limited here).

If everything goes as planned I will be back to no restrictions on July 25th. I have not put together more then 2-3weeks of consecutive training since January 21 (read the thread of you want to know why). So I am going to put the weights, cardio and diet on blast and lean up some more!

As recommended by many members and me being an ***hole…I will not be touching and gear for a long time! Some natty supplements here and there, yes.

What’s your guys opinion on diet for cutting? Obviously in a deficit, going to be at -500Calories I think.

But intermittent fasting, carb cycling, keto, just count macros and eat Whole Foods?

Damn sorry for the novel…

 

[FloridaMan]

But intermittent fasting, carb cycling, keto, just count macros and eat Whole Foods?

Damn sorry for the novel…

Eat less food in the most enjoyable/sustainable way. If you enjoy keto do keto, like carb cycling do it. The important part is to remember that once you hit your goal weight that those are your calories now until you want to gain weight again

Also if you do keto only specifically to lose weight, your going to bloat on about 5lbs back on of water weight once you start eating carbs again

 

[saderboy80]

Eat less food in the most enjoyable/sustainable way. If you enjoy keto do keto, like carb cycling do it. The important part is to remember that once you hit your goal weight that those are your calories now until you want to gain weight again

Also if you do keto only specifically to lose weight, your going to bloat on about 5lbs back on of water weight once you start eating carbs again

I’ve never tried keto, intermittent fasting or carb cycling.

Yes, I knew I knew that about keto. But thank you for re-iterating it!
I read somewhere that for every 1 gram of glycogen you hold - you hold 4grams of water (not sure if that statement is true or not).

 

[FloridaMan]

I’ve never tried keto, intermittent fasting or carb cycling.

Yes, I knew I knew that about keto. But thank you for re-iterating it!
I read somewhere that for every 1 gram of glycogen you hold - you hold 4grams of water (not sure if that statement is true or not).

It floats between 3-5g of water. If you have heart burn/acid reflux then I wouldn't suggest intermittent fasting, nearly killed me haha it made my symptoms really bad. Keto I hated because pizza LOL. Never bothered with carb cycling because it makes zero sense to me

Just gotta try something new to see what's up, or stick to the old tried and true "eat less food".

 

[saderboy80]

It floats between 3-5g of water. If you have heart burn/acid reflux then I wouldn't suggest intermittent fasting, nearly killed me haha it made my symptoms really bad. Keto I hated because pizza LOL. Never bothered with carb cycling because it makes zero sense to me

Just gotta try something new to see what's up, or stick to the old tried and true "eat less food".

I’m thinking I’m going to stick with the tried and true eat Whole Foods, measure and weigh my food, keep track of my macros and center my carbs around my workouts. I got down to just under 8% BF with this method.

 

[saderboy80]

Everything went to sh*t. My R arm took forever to heal, delaying the L arm surgery. The L arm surgery went well until the day I was supposed to be cleared for any and all exercise and the incision site got infected. Put me on a ton of antibiotics and bed rest again.

Once I got off bed rest I went back to what you guys recommended slow steady state cardio (2.5-3.0mph w/ 15% incline for 2hrs/day). With a calorie deficit and eating Whole Foods and not processed garbage.

I have made it down to 180lbs (225lbs was my highest, right after the 2nd surgery). Definitely still have some fat left but my clothes are like falling off (that’s a good sign). I think it’s time to maybe go up to maintenance calories and start pushing the weights harder? I’ve been cautious with weights since the injury. But some bpc157/tb500/hgh and the “nerve repair supplements” have made tremendous progress.

So what do you guys think..
Maintenance calories?
Lower the amount of cardio?
Go back to regular weight lifting?

FYI - I am cleared by all my doctors.