If i take isolate with dextroze/maltodextrin/waxy maize, i do it wrong?

lazaross

lazaross

Member
What do you think?

I have isolate nectrar from syntrax which has 0carbs and 0fat and i take it with some carbs. Is it wrong?
 
after resistance training I would say both deff. The Protein to rebuild and the Carbs to replenish glycogen stores.

I've reviewed dozens and dozens of studies on this subject and it always seems to come back to a ratio of approximately 2 to 1 carbs to protein (up to possibly 4:1 ratio of carbs to protein). This seems to be the optimal combination to maximize muscle repair to boost that metabolism for long term fat loss.
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Which carbs are better? Also i drink carbs and protein at the same time? Or first the carbs and after 20-30 minutes the isolate?
 
do them both together at same time. Personally Ive been going old school eating white rice and beef in the parking lot after.lol Which ever carb you can find that has the fastest absorbtion rate. I would say dextrose Invalid Link Removed <super cheap
 
Are you sure that it's ok? We pay the isolate much, because it has less fat and carbs. So if a add 60gr of maltodextrin and 30gr of isolate, i'll have a 33% protein powder!

What do you think?
 
Are you sure that it's ok? We pay the isolate much, because it has less fat and carbs. So if a add 60gr of maltodextrin and 30gr of isolate, i'll have a 33% protein powder!
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someone correct me if im wrong here: A. 60 - 100grams of carbs is ideal for PW shake, depending on the muscles worked sometimes mayb more (like legs, chest or back) The max protein amount that can be digested in a one hour period is 20-25grams. Now depending on the sources of the protein depend on the digestion rate. (egg like 45min, whey 1 hr, caesin up to 4-5 hrs). Getting a powder with ALL of these is a great buy (ON ProComplex) If ur jus using strictly whey then 25 grams in the shake is ideal.

I find that having my carb/protein shake for post then a meal 45min-hr later works great for me.

Or currently, 2cups white rice with a tablespoon of honey and 1 cup of lean beef for Post, then another meal 1 hr later with brown rice and another protein source(chicken, tuna, salmon)
 
OP, are you an endurance athlete?

If not, nutrient timing is pretty much irrelevant. The ideal thing post workout is to simply get some nutrients down within 24 hours.
 
Stop stressing over tiny details like this. At the end of the day you are looking at prolly around a 5% difference..very miniscule. Hit your macro numbers and calorie numbers for the day and you will be good. Stressing over fast and slow carbs and wha ratio and how much in what time and what window.. etc etc.. will just lead to unnecessary stress in your life over something so minor.
 
Well, being fasted doesn't necessarily mean catabolic. You might be more prone to catabolic effects, but i doubt your body is in a "catabolic state." Considering your condition i still think you're overthinking it. Down a protein shake post workout, eat a meal, do whatever as long as you're getting some nutrients in. Taking BCAAs fasted will help protect your muscle, but the second you drop those weights you're not catabolizing your muscles in which you would need CHO + P.
 
Protein alone has been proven to spike post workout.
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Yo, ive seen this posted b4 and do NOT agree. anyone got an article on this theory? I thought that b/c protein itself never enters the Krebs cycle it does not have an Insulin SPIKING responce. After protein is broken down to Amino acids it will respond with an Increase in insulin. Spikes happen thru carbs. Anything you intake your pancreas will secrete insulin to account for the rasie in blood sugar level, but spikes only happen thru carbs.
 
I've learned that you can take your post workout shake but if your not getting in enough total cals and enough protein your just not gonna grow or recover properly. It's effects really are minuscule compared to proper overall nutrition for the day.
 
First of all, it has been proven time and time again that if carbohydrates are insufficient, performance suffers. Thus it would be sub optimal to recommend such a high protein intake that inadequate carbohydrates were consumed leading to poor workouts and a lessened training stimulus for growth. This would defeat the whole point of eating more protein in the first place! In fact, if carbohydrates are too low, it does not matter how much protein you eat, you can lose muscle tissue!


Carbohydrates are equally important (if not more so) for muscle growth, muscle maintenance and performance when compared to protein. So although yes, many athletes should consume more protein than they do, they should not consume it at the expense of dietary carbohydrate.
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This article just came up today on simplyshredded.com
 
Stri8ted25 said:
Yo, ive seen this posted b4 and do NOT agree. anyone got an article on this theory? I thought that b/c protein itself never enters the Krebs cycle it does not have an Insulin SPIKING responce. After protein is broken down to Amino acids it will respond with an Increase in insulin. Spikes happen thru carbs. Anything you intake your pancreas will secrete insulin to account for the rasie in blood sugar level, but spikes only happen thru carbs.
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most nutrients create an insulin response.
 
That is overall CHO intake, not CHO timing. We all know that carbs are necessary for muscle growth, this isn't new.
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Sorry, guess that one wasn't specific enough.

Carbohydrates

High intensity exercise places great demand on glycogen stores. Glycogen is the sugar stored in the liver and muscles. Because high intensity exercise burns energy at such a high rate, the body is unable to supply sufficient oxygen to be able to use fat for fuel. Instead, it must use sugar both stored in the muscle and brought in from the blood.


Consuming simple sugars right before training can reduce the amount of glycogen used during exercise. This can prolong performance. More importantly, higher blood sugar and insulin levels appear to create a hormonal milieu favorable to anabolism (growth).

During exercise, cortisol accelerates lipolysis, ketogenesis, and proteolysis (protein breakdown). This happens in order to provide additional fuel substrates for continued exercise. The effects of cortisol may also be necessary to provide an amino acid pool from which the muscle can rebuild new contractile proteins if there are insufficient amino acids delivered from the blood. This ensures that some degree of adaptation can occur regardless of the availability of dietary protein. Over time however, if this process is not balanced with additional dietary protein, the net effect will be only maintenance or even a decrease in functional muscle tissue, as is evident during periods of starvation or prolonged dieting. Fortunately, there is only a non-significant rise in cortisol levels when carbohydrates were consumed during exercise. (Tarpenning, 1998) The net effect is a more rapid increase in the cross sectional area of the muscle fibers with the greatest effect seen in type-II fibers.


This may be a less expensive option for those who were thinking of using phosphatidylserine. In this case, carbohydrate administration appears to down regulate the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis, probably through insulin or perhaps through the presence of carbohydrate itself. This would, in effect, greatly reduce the body’s catabolic response to exercise stress. All good news for bodybuilders.
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hope this one is better.^

most nutrients create an insulin response.
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Yessss^



2 Eat Plenty Of Carbs For Energy

Your body can use protein, carbs or fats for energy, but when you’re training hard, it preferentially uses carbs. Taking in ample carbs makes it easy for your body to fuel itself, sparing protein and fats for their more specific nutritional uses.

3 Emphasize Slow-Digesting Carbs

Complex carbs are constructed of long chains of sugars. Most, but not all complex carbs are slow digesting. Stress whole-grain products (whole-wheat bread and pastas, oatmeal, brown rice, etc.) and sweet potatoes, which are all slow digesting, as opposed to white breads and white potatoes, as well as sugars, which are all fast digesting. Slow-digesting carbs provide longer-lasting energy and there’s less chance they’ll be stored as bodyfat. During a mass-building phase, strive to take in a minimum of 2 g and up to about 3 g of carbohydrates per pound of bodyweight per day. During cutting phases, reduce total carbohydrate consumption to 1 g per pound of bodyweight.

4 De-Emphasize Simple Carbs

Except after workouts, a bodybuilder should minimize calorie consumption from simple carbohydrates (sugar). Simple carbs can be rapidly absorbed, especially in liquids with little or no fats or solid foods to slow down their passage through the gastrointestinal tract. Significant quantities of simple carbs provide the release of insulin, desirable after a workout, but not at other times, because it can encourage the body to store these sugars as bodyfat. Foods that are high in sugar are among the worst for bodybuilders seeking to keep bodyfat low.
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Protein causes the insulin response needed to store the essential amino acids and also causes a glucagon response to keep the blood sugar stable, all while in the absence of carbs. Carb intake is truly overrated in the BB community IMO.

As for this insulin "spike" from protein..

The hypoglycemic effect of fat and protein is not attenuated by insulin resistance.


Abstract
BACKGROUND: The glucose-lowering effect of fat and protein is attenuated or absent in diabetic patients, which suggests that the same may occur in insulin-resistant subjects without diabetes.

OBJECTIVE: The objective was to determine whether the postprandial metabolic responses elicited by fat and protein were influenced by the insulin sensitivity of the subjects and whether fat and protein modulate glucose responses through different mechanisms.

DESIGN: Healthy nondiabetic subjects aged 18-45 y took 50 g oral glucose with 0-30-g doses of canola oil and whey protein on 11 separate mornings after fasting overnight. The subjects were classified into 3 fasting serum insulin (FSI) groups: FSI < 40 pmol/L (n = 9), 40 < or = FSI < 70 pmol/L (n = 8), and FSI > or = 70 pmol/L (n = 8). The relative glycemic response was expressed as the incremental area under the curve (AUC) after each test meal divided by the mean AUC of the glucose control in each subject.

RESULTS: Protein significantly decreased glucose (P < 0.0001) and hepatic insulin extraction (P <0.0001) and increased insulin (P < 0.0001) and glucagon-like peptide 1 (P = 0.004); however, protein had no significant effect on C-peptide (P = 0.69) or on the insulin secretion rate (P = 0.13). No significant FSI x fat (P = 0.19) or FSI x protein (P = 0.08) interaction effects on glucose AUC were observed. In addition, the changes in relative glycemic response per gram of fat (r = -0.05, P = 0.82) or protein (r = -0.08, P = 0.70) were not related to FSI.

CONCLUSIONS: The hypoglycemic effect of fat and protein was not blunted by insulin resistance. Protein increased insulin but had no effect on C-peptide or the insulin secretion rate, which suggests decreased hepatic insulin extraction or increased C-peptide clearance.

PMID:19923374
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As you can see from the bolded portion I highlighted, it appears that the protein itself may not be the cause of increased insulin levels by stimulating its release by the pancreas, but by decreasing the rate at which the liver removes insulin from the blood (at least how it looks to me)
 
Carb intake is truly overrated in the BB community IMO.
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How would you reccomend a nutrition plan for someone wanting to bulk? If you dnt replenish the glycogen stores after a w.o you risk going catabolic, no matter how much protein you intake.

Cutting is a diff story IMO. But I've never heard of any IFBB not going crazy on carbs during a bulk, not to mention for a post.

I dont disagree w ur article at all. As i noted earlier, anything you intake your body (pancreas) will illicit an insulin responce. Some foods may produce a higher degree of insulin release than others.
 
Stri8ted25 said:
If you dnt replenish the glycogen stores after a w.o you risk going catabolic, no matter how much protein you intake.
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Your glycogen stores should be full if your on a bulk so going catabolic isn't a issue. Remember that the body breaks down fat and protein to restore glycogen levels IF needed as well. It's called gluconeogenesis.
 
Remember that the body breaks down fat and protein to restore glycogen levels IF needed as well. It's called gluconeogenesis.
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A. gluconegenesis is a process that occurs when the body goes into starvation
B.
gluconeogenesis:
the synthesis of glucose from noncarbohydrate sources, such as amino acids, propionate and glycerol. It occurs primarily in the liver and kidneys whenever the supply of carbohydrates is insufficient to meet the body's metabolic demands or in the rumen by the action of bacteria in well-fed ruminants. Gluconeogenesis is stimulated by cortisol and other glucocorticoids and by glucagon. Formerly called glyconeogenesis.
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Cortisol is not something i want regulating how my body works on a regular basis. I agree with the idea that glycogen CAN be replenished by protein, but for someone wanting to gain as much muscle mass possible i think its a bad route. It all depends on your goals if you want to loose as much fat (and weight) as possible. Or if your are looking to gain muscle size and increase mass.

IMO keto and all that no-carb "science" never worked for me. I cut down from 25% to 10% in less than 3 months taking in 200-400grams carbs/day, depending on my needs for that day. (cardio, lifting, or rest).

Everyones body reacts diff to certain foods and workouts. Thats why customizing EVERY part of your routine is where you get the best results. Not by following Jay Cutlers arm routine in MuscleMag thinking its the best thing for YOU.

Sorry to ramble but this Zero carb $hit is not the way to go and remain healthy. (hence BBs dont go keto for the whole year)lol
 
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