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IDF in Gaza: Killing civilians, vandalism, and lax rules of engagement

  • Thread starter Thread starter lutherblsstt
  • Start date Start date
You realize that Israel has been at war the entire time? There has not yet been a moment where the all the surrounding Arab nations, including Palestinians have agreed that Israel has the right to exist? The continuous attacks are against the ENTIRE Israeli population as according to around half the arab world "all of Israel must die". Not "we want to break their power" but all must die. And this isn't from some staments made by a single person in their memoirs, this is from their heads of state during press conferences....

When the Romans would prepare to put a city to seige and tie two foxes tails together and set them on fire to run thru the grain fields and burn the crops so there was less food, did the civilian population feel it first and worse, or did the military? Can you point to me 1 war in all of history where the civilians didn't get the **** end of the stick?
 
i guess that is the problem ..Israel has been at war the ENTIRE time because the Palestinians are not cowards who will just give up and walk away..
lets just talk reality ...
did Israel basically take/steal Palestinian land/rights & freedoms?
whats happening now doesnt mean anything unless we recognize WHY ...

Let me come to your neighborhood in Tampa ...take over your and your neighbors house then treat you like you are the criminal for wanting it back...

would you recognize ME as the new owner of YOUR house?
even after a 100 years?
 
salras77 said:
i guess that is the problem ..Israel has been at war the ENTIRE time because the Palestinians are not cowards who will just give up and walk away..
lets just talk reality ...
did Israel basically take/steal Palestinian land/rights & freedoms?
whats happening now doesnt mean anything unless we recognize WHY ...

Let me come to your neighborhood in Tampa ...take over your and your neighbors house then treat you like you are the criminal for wanting it back...

would you recognize ME as the new owner of YOUR house?
even after a 100 years?
Click to expand...

I suppose the Palestinians should gain a grip on reality and attack the UN then, as its the UN who gave the land to Israel initially. Or they should blame Egypt and the other Arab nations who attacked Israel at which point Israel not only defended its own territory but annexed additional territory for punitive damages. Or they should accept that Israel is going to exist in some form or another and at least be able to bargain for what they can get. Its the Palestinians own leadership who is keeping them in this condition.
 
im sure the UN/England didn't just spontaneously decide to steal Palestinian land and give it to the Jews....

There is more than 1 way to steal / persuade ....ask any lobbyist...

I dont blame the sheep at the UN because they had nothing to gain... Israeli founders/lobbyists are to blame to killing/displacing millions if innocent people ..

lets not get into the 7 day war or anything else..because your argument is based on a premise that Israel is a democratically formed jewish nation...it isnt..it was an illegal land grab period ! ..



What bothers me is the spin that people/media create blaming defenseless Palestinians for fighting back the oppressive & racist zionist regime...

do we recognize native Americans as terrorists for fighting back colonists?
do we blame native south Africans for rebuking aparthied?
can we blame Palestinians for standing up for their rights and freedoms?
 
salras77 said:
What bothers me is the spin that people/media create blaming defenseless Palestinians for fighting back the oppressive & racist zionist regime...
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This is my point. Israel is always covering their asses in the media and hiding their crimes. They have to try extraordinarily hard to hide it because they can't afford any compromise to their lie.

Anyone who doubts zionism have a hand in US government needs to do some research.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUc-tGGKAtw"]YouTube - supporting Zionism is treason under US law[/ame]


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lX18zUp6WPY"]YouTube - ZIONISTS WON'T LET YOU SEE THIS ON YOUR TV[/ame]
 
nopeace said:
This is my point. Israel is always covering their asses in the media and hiding their crimes. They have to try extraordinarily hard to hide it because they can't afford any compromise to their lie.

Anyone who doubts zionism have a hand in US government needs to do some research.

Invalid Link Removed
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Any anyone who thinks this video is meaningful is retarded. For one thing, he even spells interests wrong in his titling. Beyond that though, read that actual law.

"Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States. "

Its the general treason statute, nothing to do with Zionism. So anyone who levies war against the US, or gives aide and comfort to people waging war against the US is guilty of treason. DUH.

The second video is barely better, its all just full of emotion drawing vignettes. You could show quite similar ones about how the Israelis live due to constant fear of Arab terrorism, and it would be about as valuable.

A 13-year-old Israeli boy was killed and a seven-year-old wounded on Thursday when a Palestinian attacked them with an axe in a settlement in the occupied West Bank, medics said.
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this week. Doesn't change the fact that nothing will move forwards for the Palestinians until they acknowledge Israel's right to exist in any way shape or form. If people want to fix the Palestinian's situation, they can start on fixing Palestinian's attitudes about Israel + Israelis having a right to exist. Otherwise there is 0 value to Israel to act any differently, as to act differently merely allows their enemy to bring in more materials + weapons to try and kill them with.
 
They must renounce terrorism.

Israel must give up all the territory they occupy.

Israel should acknowledge and charge everyone who has committed a war crime and like wise for the Palestinians.


The international community should help and put a stop to BOTH sides acting on each other.
 
EasyEJL said:
You realize that Israel has been at war the entire time? There has not yet been a moment where the all the surrounding Arab nations, including Palestinians have agreed that Israel has the right to exist? The continuous attacks are against the ENTIRE Israeli population as according to around half the arab world "all of Israel must die". Not "we want to break their power" but all must die. And this isn't from some staments made by a single person in their memoirs, this is from their heads of state during press conferences....
Click to expand...

Source? (Fox News doesn't count)
 
EasyEJL said:
this week. Doesn't change the fact that nothing will move forwards for the Palestinians until they acknowledge Israel's right to exist in any way shape or form. If people want to fix the Palestinian's situation, they can start on fixing Palestinian's attitudes about Israel + Israelis having a right to exist. Otherwise there is 0 value to Israel to act any differently, as to act differently merely allows their enemy to bring in more materials + weapons to try and kill them with.
Click to expand...

The Palestinians have a real grievance: their homeland for over a thousand years was taken, without their consent and mostly by force, during the creation of the state of Israel. And all subsequent crimes — on both sides — inevitably follow from this original injustice.

The Zionist movement, from the beginning, looked forward to a practically complete dispossession of the indigenous Arab population so that Israel could be a wholly Jewish state, or as much as was possible.

Land bought by the Jewish National Fund was held in the name of the Jewish people and could never be sold or even leased back to Arabs (a situation which continues to the present).

The Arab community, as it became increasingly aware of the Zionists’ intentions, strenuously opposed further Jewish immigration and land buying because it posed a real and imminent danger to the very existence of Arab society in Palestine. Because of this opposition, the entire Zionist project never could have been realized without the military backing of the British.

The vast majority of the population of Palestine, by the way, had been Arabic since the seventh century A.D. (Over 1200 years)

In short, Zionism was based on a faulty, colonialist world view that the rights of the indigenous inhabitants didn’t matter. The Arabs’ opposition to Zionism wasn’t based on anti-Semitism but rather on a totally reasonable fear of the dispossession of their people.

I do not believe that the Jews acted worse than any other group might have acted in their situation. The Zionists (who were a distinct minority of the Jewish people until after WWII) had an understandable desire to establish a place where Jews could be masters of their own fate, given the bleak history of Jewish oppression.

Especially as the danger to European Jewry crystalized in the late 1930’s and after, the actions of the Zionists were propelled by real desperation.

But so were the actions of the Arabs. The mythic “land without people for a people without land” was already home to 700,000 Palestinians in 1919. This is the root of the problem


Invalid Link Removed
 
“Israelis like to believe, and tell the world, that they are running an ‘enlightened’ or ‘benign’ occupation, qualitatively different from other military occupations the world has seen. The truth was radically different. Like all occupations, Israel’s was founded on brute force, repression and fear, collaboration and treachery, beatings and torture chambers, and daily intimidation, humiliation and manipulation.” Israeli historian, Benny Morris, “Righteous Victims.”

“In American coverage of the recent Camp David meetings, the American press obediently followed the Israeli and US government spin that while Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak made courageous concessions for peace, Palestinian unwillingness to compromise caused the meeting to fail.

“Never mind that Barak’s ‘courageous concessions’ consisted of allowing the Palestinians to have joint administrative responsibility over a couple of remote Arab neighborhoods of Arab East Jerusalem — pathetic crumbs tossed on the floor which Arafat was expected to gratefully pick up.” American Jewish reporter, Eduardo Cohen, from “What Americans Need to Know — But Probably Won’t Be Told — To understand Palestinian Rage” from Palestine Media Watch, Invalid Link Removed
 
EasyEJL said:
this week. Doesn't change the fact that nothing will move forwards for the Palestinians until they acknowledge Israel's right to exist in any way shape or form. If people want to fix the Palestinian's situation, they can start on fixing Palestinian's attitudes about Israel + Israelis having a right to exist. Otherwise there is 0 value to Israel to act any differently, as to act differently merely allows their enemy to bring in more materials + weapons to try and kill them with.
Click to expand...

“It was our nationalism...which drew the country into an occupation and settlement of the West Bank...None of the leaders of the Labor movement believed that the Palestinians deserved the same right [as Jews] because none of them believed in universal rights. Pretending, like [Arthur] Hertzberg and others do, that the Occupation and the colonial situation created in the last thirty years was merely the product of the Arab refusal to recognize Israel, is no more than looking for an alibi and falsifying history...

Israeli professor of political science, Ze’ev Sternhell, in “Tikkun”, May/June 1998

Invalid Link Removed
 
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFnM8NKiFso"]YouTube - Palestine[/ame]


Ruthless, yet the west will never see this.
 
nopeace said:
Invalid Link Removed


Ruthless, yet the west will never see this.
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Of course it is only one sided :rolleyes:

I know the women and children suicide bombers are a figment of the American/Israeli controlled media, and just a hollywood type production to convince the rest of the world that the Palestinians are root of all evil. Also, the desire of many in the arab world to completely destroy Israel and "wipe them off the map", is just another fraud of the US/Israeli power group :rofl:

Honestly guys, your posts at this point are pointless. I think that anyone with half a brain cell left realizes that both sides have used attorcities to get what they want, and trying to find blame in one direction or the other is fruitless, as one can always take the argument one step further back. The more you continue with your mindless rants at this point the more your bias becomes increasinly painfully obvious.

Very sad to see.
 
Reaper329 said:
Of course it is only one sided :rolleyes:

I know the women and children suicide bombers are a figment of the American/Israeli controlled media, and just a hollywood type production to convince the rest of the world that the Palestinians are root of all evil. Also, the desire of many in the arab world to completely destroy Israel and "wipe them off the map", is just another fraud of the US/Israeli power group :rofl:

Honestly guys, your posts at this point are pointless. I think that anyone with half a brain cell left realizes that both sides have used attorcities to get what they want, and trying to find blame in one direction or the other is fruitless, as one can always take the argument one step further back. The more you continue with your mindless rants at this point the more your bias becomes increasinly painfully obvious.

Very sad to see.
Click to expand...

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUFLpP9Prxo"]YouTube - George Galloway - Palestinian Rights / Israel[/ame]
 
Ok so after listening for almost 7 minutes, what was I supposed to gather out of this? That the speaker loves to speak in gross generalities, and offers no evidence to support his claims.

While I dont disagree Britain did not have the right to do this and yes it does go back to just after WWI and the fall of the Ottomans, that does not have anything to do with attrocities being used by BOTH SIDES at this point.

Word of advice, if you would like to continue to post clips of people talking, at least please make it relevant
 
salras77 said:
i think if the Israel people/govet would admit they STOLE Palestinian land the Palestinians would be satisfied enough to move on..... but neither one is going to happen
people always look at the problem not the cause...
Click to expand...

They didn't steal it, they WON it fair and square after the Palestinians started the war and got their asses handed to them.
 
To the victor go the spoils. :)

I do wonder if the reason that rule seems to bother people in this instance is b/c of the religion of the victor. As someone born jewish, I am always amazed at how many people to this day are still so antisemitic. (Not saying that of anyone here)

mobileicon.gif
 
Reaper329 said:
Of course it is only one sided :rolleyes:

I know the women and children suicide bombers are a figment of the American/Israeli controlled media, and just a hollywood type production to convince the rest of the world that the Palestinians are root of all evil. Also, the desire of many in the arab world to completely destroy Israel and "wipe them off the map", is just another fraud of the US/Israeli power group :rofl:

Honestly guys, your posts at this point are pointless. I think that anyone with half a brain cell left realizes that both sides have used attorcities to get what they want, and trying to find blame in one direction or the other is fruitless, as one can always take the argument one step further back. The more you continue with your mindless rants at this point the more your bias becomes increasinly painfully obvious.

Very sad to see.
Click to expand...

Aren't you a supporter of Israel?

"wipe Israel of the map", what Iran's president meant to say was "wipe Israel's borders off the map". The US new media just uses that to justify a war with Iran, if they decide to export oil in Euro's the US is royally screwed.

Do you really think they will nuke Israel? Along with the Palestinians?

Why do you think Palestinians use Guerilla tactics? They don't have any weaponry to fight the IDF. They are limited to suicide bombers and militant actions.



Between the two sides, who is more correct?

I sympathize more with the Palestinian civilians and particularly because they have not had any exposure in the Media.

I don't feel the the US should be allies with Israel and be handing them billions in aid for nothing. Especially since they spy against us and have sold our tech to China and also collaborate with them on technological projects like anti-satellite laser etc. I really despise how they control their image over here and how our presidents don't even criticize them at all in their tactics. i also hate how many evangelical churches have started to support israel. WTF?

I think the Palestinians have ruined their self-image to the west by walking around holding a qu'ran and AK's and having the "gibberish" looking writing all over their bandanas etc. Not to mention yelling about in the street Allah ackbar etc.

What they should have done is printed more banners in ENGLISH, protested peacefully (if IDF would tolerate it) and called out to more Western Leaders for help. RENOUNCE terrorism and the world would stand with them. More international aid to improve their standard of living. Schools, hospitals and jobs, these people have no hope to get out of palestine.

Israel should admit it's war crimes to world and to Palestine. And if possible adjudicate the one's responsible for such crimes.

The UN should have been handling this entire ordeal and should have arrested people on both sides for war crimes.
 
Reaper329 said:
To the victor go the spoils. :)

I do wonder if the reason that rule seems to bother people in this instance is b/c of the religion of the victor. As someone born jewish, I am always amazed at how many people to this day are still so antisemitic. (Not saying that of anyone here)

mobileicon.gif
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Anti-Semitism is described as anything said against Jews, basically. even if it is true or not.

Are you Zionist in your beliefs? It's not the religion of the people (in my beliefs) that has anything to do with conflict. I just see people killing people.
 
example of the bias media get their asses handed to them;

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-brkmfrxrQY"]YouTube - Galloway on Israel and lebanon 06/08/2006[/ame]
 
Reaper329 said:
Ok so after listening for almost 7 minutes, what was I supposed to gather out of this? That the speaker loves to speak in gross generalities, and offers no evidence to support his claims.

While I dont disagree Britain did not have the right to do this and yes it does go back to just after WWI and the fall of the Ottomans, that does not have anything to do with attrocities being used by BOTH SIDES at this point.

Word of advice, if you would like to continue to post clips of people talking, at least please make it relevant
Click to expand...

“It was our nationalism...which drew the country into an occupation and settlement of the West Bank...None of the leaders of the Labor movement believed that the Palestinians deserved the same right [as Jews] because none of them believed in universal rights. Pretending, like [Arthur] Hertzberg and others do, that the Occupation and the colonial situation created in the last thirty years was merely the product of the Arab refusal to recognize Israel, is no more than looking for an alibi and falsifying history...
Israeli professor of political science, Ze’ev Sternhell, in “Tikkun”, May/June 1998

Invalid Link Removed
 
at the end of the day gentlemen, you seem to acknowledge that attrocities are being committed on both sides, but justify those that the Palestinians take part in. That is a bit foolish, no? There is no justification for women and children acting in the likes of suicide bombers.

Am I a supporter of Israel? I take the same stance as Kissinger, I support Israeli existence, not Israeli aggression.
 
EasyEJL said:
Funny, if the palestinians and arabs would just agree to accepting israel's right to existence, there would have been a peace treaty long ago. But they still refuse to.
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So in your eyes it's ok to kill innocent civilians? What a moron you are.
 
lutherblsstt said:
“It was our nationalism...which drew the country into an occupation and settlement of the West Bank...None of the leaders of the Labor movement believed that the Palestinians deserved the same right [as Jews] because none of them believed in universal rights. Pretending, like [Arthur] Hertzberg and others do, that the Occupation and the colonial situation created in the last thirty years was merely the product of the Arab refusal to recognize Israel, is no more than looking for an alibi and falsifying history...
Israeli professor of political science, Ze’ev Sternhell, in “Tikkun”, May/June 1998

Invalid Link Removed
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Gee, thats a nice opinion, just like any of the opinions stated in this thread. Its great that he believes that, but it doesn't mystically make it true.
 
How come the Displaced Jews get land from Britain, that they occupied from the Palestinians?

If the Palestinians were already living there why did Israel kick them out?
 
nopeace said:
How come the Displaced Jews get land from Britain, that they occupied from the Palestinians?

If the Palestinians were already living there why did Israel kick them out?
Click to expand...

Because the palestinians started trying to "take back" the land by force.
 
EasyEJL said:
Its great that he believes that, but it doesn't mystically make it true.
Click to expand...

The same could be said of your opinion.

I would however give more credence
to his opinion being that he is an Israeli prof of political science who actually makes a living from studying these issues and lives in Israel.
 
“Israelis like to believe, and tell the world, that they are running an ‘enlightened’ or ‘benign’ occupation, qualitatively different from other military occupations the world has seen. The truth was radically different. Like all occupations, Israel’s was founded on brute force, repression and fear, collaboration and treachery, beatings and torture chambers, and daily intimidation, humiliation and manipulation.” Israeli historian, Benny Morris, “Righteous Victims.”
 
My last comment, as it seems folks here like Luther are having trouble understanding or at least acknowleding Palestinian fault as well.

Both sides have committed attrocities, however at teh end of the day, Britain gave land to "Israel" that it really had no righ tto do. However, Arab countries revolted against that AND LOST, and lost badly, so over time and more Arab losing, Israel extended its dominion. Is that right? No, but it is a normal result when you get attacked and win.

I hate to say this, but many Arab nations have no one to blame but themselves for their behavior and lack of global support
 
lutherblsstt said:
The same could be said of your opinion.

I would however give more credence
to his opinion being that he is an Israeli prof of political science who actually makes a living from studying these issues and lives in Israel.
Click to expand...

And also has an axe to grind, just like yourself.... So like yourself, he will hunt for whatever bits and driblets support his belief, and ignore any evidence to the contrary.
 
Reaper329 said:
My last comment, as it seems folks here like Luther are having trouble understanding or at least acknowleding Palestinian fault as well.

Both sides have committed attrocities, however at teh end of the day, Britain gave land to "Israel" that it really had no righ tto do. However, Arab countries revolted against that AND LOST, and lost badly, so over time and more Arab losing, Israel extended its dominion. Is that right? No, but it is a normal result when you get attacked and win.

I hate to say this, but many Arab nations have no one to blame but themselves for their behavior and lack of global support
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The conventional wisdom is that, even if both sides are at fault, the Palestinians are irrational "terrorists" who have no point of view worth listening to.

My position is that the Palestinians have a real grievance: their homeland for over a thousand years was taken, without their consent and mostly by force, during the creation of the state of Israel. And all subsequent crimes - on both sides - inevitably follow from this original injustice.

I do believe that the killing of innocent people is wrong, in all cases. Thus, I cannot condone the use of terrorism by some extreme Palestinian groups, especially prevalent during the 1970s.

That being said I must point out that we hear lots about Palestinian terrorism. How about the Israeli record?


"It is simply extraordinary and without precedent that Israel's history, its record - from the fact that it..is a state built on conquest, that it has invaded surrounding countries, bombed and destroyed at will, to the fact that it currently occupies Lebanese, Syrian, and Palestinian territory against international law - is simply never cited, never subjected to scrutiny in the U.S. media or in official discourse...never addressed as playing any role at all in provoking 'Islamic terror.'" Edward Said in "The Progressive." May 30, 1996.



"The record of Israeli terrorism goes back to the origins of the state - indeed, long before - including the massacre of 250 civilians and brutal expulsion of seventy thousand others from Lydda and Ramle in July 1948; the massacre of hundreds of others at the undefended village of Doueimah near Hebron in October 1948;...the slaughters in Quibya, Kafr Kassem, and a string of other assassinated villages; the expulsion of thousands of Bedouins from the demilitarized zones shortly after the 1948 war and thousands more from northeastern Sinai in the early 1970's, their villages destroyed, to open the region for Jewish settlement; and on, and on." Noam Chomsky, "Blaming The Victims," ed. Said and Hitchens.
 
Jewish Criticism
of Zionism

"Albert Einstein - "'I should much rather see reasonable agreement with the Arabs on the basis of living together in peace than the creation of a Jewish State. Apart from practical considerations, my awareness of the essential nature of Judaism resists the idea of a Jewish State,with borders, an army, and a measure of temporal power, no matter how modest. I am afraid of the inner damage Judaism will sustain'...

"Nathan Chofshi - 'Only an internal revolution can have the power to heal our people of their murderous sickness of causeless hatred...It is bound to bring complete ruin upon us. Only then will the old and young in our land realize how great was our responsibility to those miserable Arab refugees in whose towns we have settled Jews who were brought here from afar; whose homes we have inherited, whose fields we now sow and harvest; the fruits of whose gardens, orchards and vineyards we gather; and in whose cities that we robbed we put up houses of education, charity, and prayer, while we babble and rave about being the "People of the Book" and the "light of the nations"'...

"A Jewish Home in Palestine built up on bayonets and oppression [is] not worth having, even though it succeed, whereas the very attempt to build it up peacefully, cooperatively, with understanding, education, and good will, [is] worth a great deal even though the attempt should fail." Rabbi Judah L. Magnes, first president of the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, quoted in "Like All The Nations?", ed. Brinner & Rischin.
 
Martin Buber on what Zionism should have been

"The first fact is that at the time when we entered into an alliance (an alliance, I admit, that was not well defined) with a European state and we provided that state with a claim to rule over Palestine, we made no attempt to reach an agreement with the Arabs of this land regarding the basis and conditions for the continuation of Jewish settlement.

This negative approach caused those Arabs who thought about and were concerned about the future of their people to see us increasingly not as a group which desired to live in cooperation with their people but as something in the nature of uninvited guests and agents of foreign interests (at the time I explicitly pointed out this fact).

"The second fact is that we took hold of the key economic positions in the country without compensating the Arab population, that is to say without allowing their capital and their labor a share in our economic activity. Paying the large landowners for purchases made or paying compensation to tenants on the land is not the same as compensating a people. As a result, many of the more thoughtful Arabs viewed the advance of Jewish settlement as a kind of plot designed to dispossess future generations of their people of the land necessary for their existence and development.

Only by means of a comprehensive and vigorous economic policy aimed at organizing and developing common interests would it have been possible to contend with this view and its inevitable consequences. This we did not do.

"The third fact is that when a possibility arose that the Mandate would soon be terminated, not only did we not propose to the Arab population of the country that a joint Jewish Arab administration be set up in its place, we went ahead and demanded rule over the whole country (the Biltmore program) as a fitting political sequel to the gains we had already made. By this step, we with our own hands provided our enemies in the Arab camp with aid and comfort of the most valuable sort - the support of public opinion - without which the military attack launched against us would not have been possible. For it now appears to the Arab populace that in carrying on the activities we have been engaged in for years, in acquiring land and in working and developing the land, we were systematically laying the ground work for gaining control of the whole country." Martin Buber, quoted in "A Land of Two Peoples" ed. Mendes-Flohr
 
By lax rules of engagement, do you mean things like blowing up a school bus or a pie shop with a suicide bomber? Perhaps shooting RPGs and rockets from school houses? Just trying to clarify here...
 
Rugger said:
By lax rules of engagement, do you mean things like blowing up a school bus or a pie shop with a suicide bomber? Perhaps shooting RPGs and rockets from school houses? Just trying to clarify here...
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My position is that the Palestinians have a real grievance: their homeland for over a thousand years was taken, without their consent and mostly by force, during the creation of the state of Israel. And all subsequent crimes - on both sides - inevitably follow from this original injustice.


I do believe that the killing of innocent people is wrong, in all cases. Thus, I cannot condone the use of terrorism by some extreme Palestinian groups, especially prevalent during the 1970s.

That being said I must point out that we hear lots about Palestinian terrorism. How about the Israeli record?


"The record of Israeli terrorism goes back to the origins of the state - indeed, long before - including the massacre of 250 civilians and brutal expulsion of seventy thousand others from Lydda and Ramle in July 1948; the massacre of hundreds of others at the undefended village of Doueimah near Hebron in October 1948;...the slaughters in Quibya, Kafr Kassem, and a string of other assassinated villages; the expulsion of thousands of Bedouins from the demilitarized zones shortly after the 1948 war and thousands more from northeastern Sinai in the early 1970's, their villages destroyed, to open the region for Jewish settlement; and on, and on." Noam Chomsky, "Blaming The Victims," ed. Said and Hitchens.
 
The Israeli record sucks too, but making a comment about their adherence to rules of engagement when their opponents do the things that they do is asinine. The Palestinian groups have ZERO regard for human life or any lick of ROE. The Israeli incidents are isolated and do not represent the IDF as a whole.

Israelis= A few people do stupid ****
Palestinians= They all do stupid ****
 
Rugger said:
The Israeli record sucks too, but making a comment about their adherence to rules of engagement when their opponents do the things that they do is asinine. The Palestinian groups have ZERO regard for human life or any lick of ROE. The Israeli incidents are isolated and do not represent the IDF as a whole.

Israelis= A few people do stupid ****
Palestinians= They all do stupid ****
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I don't think that is an accurate statement. Israel does not have any regard for human life either. That is why the censor much of the footage that is released to the west and control our media's view on them.


How else would you explain that the entire US population thinks Israel always owned that land? If Palestine had Jets, Tanks, Helicopter then it would be an even playing field, all they have are small arms, and bombs.
 
Rugger said:
The Israeli record sucks too, but making a comment about their adherence to rules of engagement when their opponents do the things that they do is asinine. The Palestinian groups have ZERO regard for human life or any lick of ROE. The Israeli incidents are isolated and do not represent the IDF as a whole.

Israelis= A few people do stupid ****
Palestinians= They all do stupid ****
Click to expand...

"It is simply extraordinary and without precedent that Israel's history, its record - from the fact that it..is a state built on conquest, that it has invaded surrounding countries, bombed and destroyed at will, to the fact that it currently occupies Lebanese, Syrian, and Palestinian territory against international law - is simply never cited, never subjected to scrutiny in the U.S. media or in official discourse...never addressed as playing any role at all in provoking 'Islamic terror.'" Edward Said in "The Progressive." May 30, 1996.
 
It seems like the more you read statistics, the IDF seems to be targeting civilians in order to "reeducate" hamas by massing civilians. That quote was taken from an Israeli official.
 
And that makes its true?
 
lutherblsstt said:
"It is simply extraordinary and without precedent that Israel's history, its record - from the fact that it..is a state built on conquest, that it has invaded surrounding countries, bombed and destroyed at will, to the fact that it currently occupies Lebanese, Syrian, and Palestinian territory against international law - is simply never cited, never subjected to scrutiny in the U.S. media or in official discourse...never addressed as playing any role at all in provoking 'Islamic terror.'" Edward Said in "The Progressive." May 30, 1996.
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The Progressive. :lol:
 
While you prefer the Retrogressive...
 
Cosmo Kramer said:
While you prefer the Retrogressive...
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"Dear lutherblsstt,

You have received a new private message at AnabolicMinds.com Forum from Cosmo Kramer, entitled "New reputation!".

To read the original version, respond to, or delete this message, you must log in here:

This is the message that was sent:
***************
Hi, you have received -50000 reputation points from Cosmo Kramer.
Reputation was given for *this*

Comment:
you can do better

Regards,
Cosmo Kramer"

Thanks Cosmo.I also appreciate you blocking my IP address,great administrative work there friend!
 
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