Iconic Black Series Q&A

thebigt

thebigt

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starting alpha seven or ultra hard tommorow (trying to decide what first) but wondering if I should apply pre Workout or post.

basicaly I get up, 1 hour later workout then 1 hour after go to work.
if you shower after workout then after shower.
 
Nycnano

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Would a serm be needed for alpha one or an otc would suffice?
 
thebigt

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Would a serm be needed for alpha one or an otc would suffice?
run 2 bottles then do a serm + sustain alpha...as easy as it is to get serms+how cheap they are it would be unwise not to use one, imo.

we have a couple of reputable sites the sell rc's here.
 
cheftepesh1

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cheftepesh1

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Malbranque

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Bit of conflicting info on Alpha Seven. Does this need a SERM or would OTC Pct like Sustain Alpha and MTest or K1ngs Blood do the trick?
 

Dragoninho

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Most of curiousity, when do you recommend Ultra-Hard vs Ultra Epi?
 
thegodfather

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What is the difference between 1-DHEA in Icon One vs androsterone in Alpha Seven? Aren't they the same thing?
 
thebigt

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Bit of conflicting info on Alpha Seven. Does this need a SERM or would OTC Pct like Sustain Alpha and MTest or K1ngs Blood do the trick?
serms are really easy to acquire and reasonably cheap, i would recommend at least having one on hand.
 
thebigt

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Most of curiousity, when do you recommend Ultra-Hard vs Ultra Epi?
imo, ultra hard is more upscale than ultra epi due to androsterone, which is a high end ingredient.
 
thebigt

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What is the difference between 1-DHEA in Icon One vs androsterone in Alpha Seven? Aren't they the same thing?
1-dhea[andro] is very different than androsterone. i would recommend icon one if you are looking to bulk, and alpha seven if looking to cut or recomp.
 
thegodfather

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1-dhea[andro] is very different than androsterone. i would recommend icon one if you are looking to bulk, and alpha seven if looking to cut or recomp.
Thanks brother
 
Ape McGrapes

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Bit of conflicting info on Alpha Seven. Does this need a SERM or would OTC Pct like Sustain Alpha and MTest or K1ngs Blood do the trick?
7-Keto is not suppressive. Androsterone is about as minimally suppressive as you can get. I couldn't imagine a scenario where androsterone would actually shut someone completely down. An OTC PCT should suffice. Hell no PCT might he fine but I would never do or recommend that. Sustain Alpha or especially our TRS stack would work just fine. That all said; A serm is a fool proof plan, and should be taken into account when running any cycle.
 
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Ape McGrapes

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What is the difference between 1-DHEA in Icon One vs androsterone in Alpha Seven? Aren't they the same thing?
Androsterone is one of a few two step precursors to DHT. It is the cousin to Epiandrosterone, with very similar effect but anecdotally is slightly more anabolic and better for strength, as were Epiandrosterone has more neuro effects. DHT is known best for its masculinizing effects such as facial hair growth and libido/erection quality, as well as muscle hardening and increased energy. Androsterone is also minimally supressive if really at all.

1-Andro is a two step precursor to 1-Testosterone. It is your most anabolic andro and increases lean muscle mass really well. It is much more supressive than Androsterone, and has more side effects, but that comes with the use of stronger compounds. That said; suppression is still very light.
 
thegodfather

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Androsterone is one of a few two step precursors to DHT. It is the cousin to Epiandrosterone, with very similar effect but anecdotally is slightly more anabolic and better for strength, as were Epiandrosterone has more neuro effects. DHT is known best for its masculinizing effects such as facial hair growth and libido/erection quality, as well as muscle hardening and increased energy. Androsterone is also minimally supressive if really at all.

1-Andro is a two step precursor to 1-Testosterone. It is your most anabolic andro and increases lean muscle mass really well. It is much more supressive than Androsterone, and has more side effects, but that comes with the use of stronger compounds. That said; suppression is still very light.
Thanks for the clarification.
 

Dragoninho

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imo, ultra hard is more upscale than ultra epi due to androsterone, which is a high end ingredient.
I totally agree. I became a Epiandro and Androsterone-fan during the PP era back in the days.

No pissing on Epiandro, I like that one as well and I find the combination of them works best for me, even if I need to be careful with the dosing since I tend to get anxious on higher doses these days.

The question was more like, why one would go with Ultra Epi when you have access to Ultra-Hard?
I was just thinking about the reason behind having both products in line, since the are so similiar.

As I said, nothing bad with either of them, I’m a fan, I was just curious :)
 
Pl4typu5

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Ok I woke up today and I’m burnt to a crisp, really bad sunburn on my upper body. I always applied transdermals on my delts, chest, stomach....
whats places do you guys recommend other than the above, tops of feet? Plums?
 
delsolrob

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Ok I woke up today and I’m burnt to a crisp, really bad sunburn on my upper body. I always applied transdermals on my delts, chest, stomach....
whats places do you guys recommend other than the above, tops of feet? Plums?
thighs and the back of the knees/upper calves and lower hammies. Inner bicep and forearm are also great...if they’re available :)
 
Pl4typu5

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thighs and the back of the knees/upper calves and lower hammies. Inner bicep and forearm are also great...if they’re available :)
Great, legs are fine. Arms are a no go, My Irish milky white skin is a beautiful fire red at the moment 🌶🌶🌶
 
thebigt

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I totally agree. I became a Epiandro and Androsterone-fan during the PP era back in the days.

No pissing on Epiandro, I like that one as well and I find the combination of them works best for me, even if I need to be careful with the dosing since I tend to get anxious on higher doses these days.

The question was more like, why one would go with Ultra Epi when you have access to Ultra-Hard?
I was just thinking about the reason behind having both products in line, since the are so similiar.

As I said, nothing bad with either of them, I’m a fan, I was just curious :)
it's always good to have options....
 
thebigt

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Great, legs are fine. Arms are a no go, My Irish milky white skin is a beautiful fire red at the moment 🌶🌶🌶
you might try shins also, i've been seeing nice results using shins as a alternate application site-very thin skin there.
 
Pl4typu5

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I didn’t notice on my first 2 bottles but now the next 2 bottles have arrived I noticed one starts at 120 pumps, the other about 125 pumps?
 
cheftepesh1

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I didn’t notice on my first 2 bottles but now the next 2 bottles have arrived I noticed one starts at 120 pumps, the other about 125 pumps?
Most likely two different pump lots.
 
delsolrob

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Once the bottles are filled, there's a valve that needs to be pressed/snapped closed on the pistons (the piece that moves up the middle of the bottle pushing the gel out). Sometimes the valve requires more pressure to snap closed - when this happens and we have to manually do it - this often drives the gel into pump mechanism of the bottle and not just in the body of the bottle. This will create some variance in the apparent fill level of the initial bottle.
 
thebigt

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Once the bottles are filled, there's a valve that needs to be pressed/snapped closed on the pistons (the piece that moves up the middle of the bottle pushing the gel out). Sometimes the valve requires more pressure to snap closed - when this happens and we have to manually do it - this often drives the gel into pump mechanism of the bottle and not just in the body of the bottle. This will create some variance in the apparent fill level of the initial bottle.
good info.
 

joe123!

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imo, ultra hard is more upscale than ultra epi due to androsterone, which is a high end ingredient.
I am sitting on 2-bottles of ICON One. My two friend began it a month ago and are seeing some nice gains. I plan to start my run in 2-weeks and run it solo, but I am also thinking about stacking it with Alpha Seven the last month. Seems like a little extra test base would kick things up a notch. Any thoughts? I am going for a re-comp, with the hopes of losing some fat.
 
ECUKingbuddy

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I am sitting on 2-bottles of ICON One. My two friend began it a month ago and are seeing some nice gains. I plan to start my run in 2-weeks and run it solo, but I am also thinking about stacking it with Alpha Seven the last month. Seems like a little extra test base would kick things up a notch. Any thoughts? I am going for a re-comp, with the hopes of losing some fat.
Do it. Im on my last week of Alpha 7 and I think it will be a staple in all my future runs now. Especially if you are going for a recomp as well.
 

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Would it be cool to PCT with Dermacrine along side the TRS Stack after 6 weeks of Icon One?
 
Malbranque

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I could be wrong, but I think you'll need something a fair whack stronger than the TRS stack for PCT following Icon One, and I personally wouldn't use Derma In PCT as it's mildly suppressive in itself.
 

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I just began slapping on 4-pumps of ICON ONE and wanted to stack it with a single bottle of Ultra Hard, but was wondering what the best time to introduce it was. Also have a bottle of Sustain Alpha and was curious about timing... Here is my layout, on-cycle support throughout. Advice is welcomed:

2 bottles Icon one - Week 1-8
1 bottle Ultra Hard - Week 5-8
Super PCT - Week 9-12
Sustain Alpha - Week 11-14
 
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joe123!

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I could be wrong, but I think you'll need something a fair whack stronger than the TRS stack for PCT following Icon One, and I personally wouldn't use Derma In PCT as it's mildly suppressive in itself.
I have not tried Sustain Alpha, Im about to though. However, I have used OL Super PCT for mild/mid PH runs and had great results in the past.
 

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Wish I could try Icon One, but last time I used a 1-Androsterone product I had really bad allergic reactions.
Considering running Ultra Hard for 8 weeks for a recomp (with the Sustain Alpha promo deal). Is this a viable choice?
 

joe123!

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Wish I could try Icon One, but last time I used a 1-Androsterone product I had really bad allergic reactions.
Considering running Ultra Hard for 8 weeks for a recomp (with the Sustain Alpha promo deal). Is this a viable choice?
That would be a nice solo run, but use Sustain Alpha for your PCT not at the same time as Ultra Hard.
 

joe123!

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Trying to figure out the serving level on ICON ONE.
  • Webpage says, "At 5 pumps per day, a full bottle of ICON ONE should last roughly 28 Days."
  • Bottle label shows 130 servings, which is 26 days.
So is the side label wrong or is the webpage wrong?
 
Fly_boy

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I’ve been trying to find the amount of 1-DHEA in an Icon One dose. Are y’all keeping that close to the chest?
 

jazztastic

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I’ve been trying to find the amount of 1-DHEA in an Icon One dose. Are y’all keeping that close to the chest?
From the Strongsupplement site:

5 Pump Serving:
112.5mg 1-DHEA
94.5mg DHEA
18mg Pregnenolone
 

joe123!

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From the Strongsupplement site:

5 Pump Serving:
112.5mg 1-DHEA
94.5mg DHEA
18mg Pregnenolone
Hummm, OL use to have 110mg per pill of andro 1, with a recommended dose of 220mg. My buddy just ran Alpha One and said it was good, but no where near what his old OL runs were like.

Guess IF needs to update their site bc the exact mg dose for Ultra Hard, Alpha Seven, Ultra EPI and Alpha Seven are listed.
 
Fly_boy

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Hummm, OL use to have 110mg per pill of andro 1, with a recommended dose of 220mg. My buddy just ran Alpha One and said it was good, but no where near what his old OL runs were like.

Guess IF needs to update their site bc the exact mg dose for Ultra Hard, Alpha Seven, Ultra EPI and Alpha Seven are listed.
Most logs I’ve seen have good results with ORAL 1-DHEA are at 330 mg (West Texas A&M study). I’m not sure how TD application compares. I would think greater absorption with TD assuming it has a good carrier.
 
delsolrob

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Yes, Icon One has 112.5mg 1-dhea per application.

TD doesn't just increase bioavailability, the skin also contains the enzymes to convert to target steroids...leading to greater conversion
 
delsolrob

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Trying to figure out the serving level on ICON ONE.
  • Webpage says, "At 5 pumps per day, a full bottle of ICON ONE should last roughly 28 Days."
  • Bottle label shows 130 servings, which is 26 days.
So is the side label wrong or is the webpage wrong?
The gauge on the side of the bottle is just a guide to estimate how much is left. It's the same gauge on all the iconic bottles.

The bottles contain 210ml of liquid and each pump is 1.5ml - at 5 pumps (7.5ml) you're going to get 28 applications. we use the term roughly because the pumps are not going to offer exact applications.
 
delsolrob

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Hummm, OL use to have 110mg per pill of andro 1, with a recommended dose of 220mg. My buddy just ran Alpha One and said it was good, but no where near what his old OL runs were like.

Guess IF needs to update their site bc the exact mg dose for Ultra Hard, Alpha Seven, Ultra EPI and Alpha Seven are listed.
Frankly, 1-dhea is known to make people feel like garbage! We wanted to release a solid profile offering great recomp, while minimizing the negative impacts of 1-dhea. The feedback on Icon One has been overwhelmingly positive. We could have released a higher dosed 1-dhea topical but I don't think it would have offered the user experience we were looking to offer our customers.
 

joe123!

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Frankly, 1-dhea is known to make people feel like garbage! We wanted to release a solid profile offering great recomp, while minimizing the negative impacts of 1-dhea. The feedback on Icon One has been overwhelmingly positive. We could have released a higher dosed 1-dhea topical but I don't think it would have offered the user experience we were looking to offer our customers.
Right on, I know a lot of guys that have had issues with andro 1 for sure. Also, I know with gels you need less, absorption is better and are they are better on the body.

For real, I am going to use gels from here on out.
 
thebigt

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Frankly, 1-dhea is known to make people feel like garbage! We wanted to release a solid profile offering great recomp, while minimizing the negative impacts of 1-dhea. The feedback on Icon One has been overwhelmingly positive. We could have released a higher dosed 1-dhea topical but I don't think it would have offered the user experience we were looking to offer our customers.
plus the added preg/dhea is a real bonus for minimizing sides!!!
 

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I caved and have 2 bottles each of Ultra Hard & Sustain Alpha on the way. Hoping to get this 54 yr old body back under control (like my beer too much).

Had a great run about 4 yrs ago of 1-Andro, 4-Andro & Epi stacked (with Virtus)...but haven't been able to tolerate 1-DHEA since.
 

joe123!

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I caved and have 2 bottles each of Ultra Hard & Sustain Alpha on the way. Hoping to get this 54 yr old body back under control (like my beer too much).

Had a great run about 4 yrs ago of 1-Andro, 4-Andro & Epi stacked (with Virtus)...but haven't been able to tolerate 1-DHEA since.
Awesome, I have not heard of anyone having sides from Icon One outside of a friend with some lethargy around week 5. However, Ultra Hard is a perfect extra test base to run with Icon One. Although Icon one already has a test base built in, which imo is great if you want a one product run. Save a lot of $$ vs stacking 3 bottles.

I am using 4-pumps of Icon One now and have a single bottle of Ultra Hard coming. Plan on using Ultra Hard at 3 pumps per day for the last 5-weeks of my run.
 
thebigt

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Awesome, I have not heard of anyone having sides from Icon One outside of a friend with some lethargy around week 5. However, Ultra Hard is a perfect extra test base to run with Icon One. Although Icon one already has a test base built in, which imo is great if you want a one product run. Save a lot of $$ vs stacking 3 bottles.

I am using 4-pumps of Icon One now and have a single bottle of Ultra Hard coming. Plan on using Ultra Hard at 3 pumps per day for the last 5-weeks of my run.
very good plan...i ran icon one solo for 1 bottle then added alpha seven with 2nd bottle-the ultra hard will be great for your last 5 weeks...i gained 7lbs of very lean muscle and increased weight and volume on all lifts, which i have maintained.
 
Malbranque

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Okay, I'm confused now.
So basically Ultra Hard and Icon One only need Sustain Alpha or an OTC PCT?
I thought something stronger was needed?
 

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