Iconic Black Series Q&A

Ape McGrapes

Ape McGrapes

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I'll be in here periodically to answer any questions you have on the new black series: Price, dosage, cycle set up, application points, etc.

If I dont get to it, the whole team is qualified. @thebigt @Marms @delsolrob
 
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mavup

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I'll be in here periodically to answer any questions you have on the new black series: Price, dosage, cycle set up, application points, etc.

If I dont get to it, the whole team is qualified. @thebigt @Marms @Delsorob
Usually I research these things myself, but I’m driving all day so perhaps you guys could help.

What would you recommend to stack together for maximum mass gain and strength? With this quarantine (even with my home gym) I haven’t been eating much and lost a lot of size. I have a fast metabolism so I’m prob about 8-10% Bf currently and looking to bulk up again once the gyms open up.
 
Ape McGrapes

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Usually I research these things myself, but I’m driving all day so perhaps you guys could help.

What would you recommend to stack together for maximum mass gain and strength? With this quarantine (even with my home gym) I haven’t been eating much and lost a lot of size. I have a fast metabolism so I’m prob about 8-10% Bf currently and looking to bulk up again once the gyms open up.
Icon One for sure. 1-DHEA is the strongest Andro and backed by atleast one study. You can expect lean gains. I believe @thebigt put on 7 or 8lbs on his six week run.

Now Icon One also contains DHEA and Pregnalone to act as a test base and eliminate sides such as lethargy and loss of libido. However you could stack it with Alpha Four to get an even stronger test conversion/base and some extra gains or Ultra Hard for some good hardening, increased erection quality and improved mood.

If using more than one transdermal I would switch to twice a day dosing. 5 pumps AM 5 pumps PM(away from bed) mix and matched between the two. Ex: 3 pumps A-4 and two pumps I-1 in the AM, and 2 pumps A-4 and 3 pumps I-1 in the PM.
 

mavup

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Icon One for sure. 1-DHEA is the strongest Andro and backed by atleast one study. You can expect lean gains. I believe @thebigt put on 7 or 8lbs on his six week run.

Now Icon One also contains DHEA and Pregnalone to act as a test base and eliminate sides such as lethargy and loss of libido. However you could stack it with Alpha Four to get an even stronger test conversion/base and some extra gains or Ultra Hard for some good hardening, increased erection quality and improved mood.

If using more than one transdermal I would switch to twice a day dosing. 5 pumps AM 5 pumps PM(away from bed) mix and matched between the two. Ex: 3 pumps A-4 and two pumps I-1 in the AM, and 2 pumps A-4 and 3 pumps I-1 in the PM.
Great. Was leaning towards icon-1 but wasn’t sure what might pair nicely with it. How long would you recommend to run icon-1 with ultra hard? And could I follow it up with something like alpha 7, or go into pct right after? I believe icon-1 required a pharmaceutical pct vs. otc, right?
 
Ape McGrapes

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I will always advocate for a proper serm based PCT, but our Sustain Alpha is the best OTC PCT product put there, and the Testosterone Recover Stack we sell is fuckin top notch. Remember that Andros are very mild in comparison to most designer and black marker AAS. HPTA suppression is still a reality though.

I personally run 8-12 week Andro cycles. I would say 6-8 was very popular when PP had the Icon-one formula. Andros are slow to kick in so anything under 6 is pointless, and we want to solidify gains over time. I'd say stick with 8 weeks your first time around.

You could use Alpha-7 as a bridge into PCT, but it might not be strong enough anabolicly to help hold on to/solidify gains. I would personally run Alpha-7 in PCT as I dont think 100mg Androsterone is enough to keep suppressing test. However that is my own opinion and not advice to follow.
 
thebigt

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I will always advocate for a proper serm based PCT, but our Sustain Alpha is the best OTC PCT product put there, and the Testosterone Recover Stack we sell is fuckin top notch. Remember that Andros are very mild in comparison to most designer and black marker AAS. HPTA suppression is still a reality though.

I personally run 8-12 week Andro cycles. I would say 6-8 was very popular when PP had the Icon-one formula. Andros are slow to kick in so anything under 6 is pointless, and we want to solidify gains over time. I'd say stick with 8 weeks your first time around.

You could use Alpha-7 as a bridge into PCT, but it might not be strong enough anabolicly to help hold on to/solidify gains. I would personally run Alpha-7 in PCT as I dont think 100mg Androsterone is enough to keep suppressing test. However that is my own opinion and not advice to follow.
i started alpha 7 last 2 weeks of my icon one 8 week run...about the 6 week mark when i started alpha 7 i was starting to experience some mild lethargy and some loss of libido...almost immediately upon starting alpha seven energy and libido went way up. i continued to run alpha seven for the 2 weeks after icon one.

i gained 7lbs of muscle and have kept all my gains.
 
thebigt

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I'll be in here periodically to answer any questions you have on the new black series: Price, dosage, cycle set up, application points, etc.

If I dont get to it, the whole team is qualified. @thebigt @Marms @delsolrob
great idea to start a [email protected] thread for the black series...nice job Ape!!!
 
thebigt

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Lots of new products out and some
New ones in the works
i am getting behind...i always had pride in being able to give out personal experience with all of the products, lol.

i am about 3 products behind already!!!!!
 

mavup

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I will always advocate for a proper serm based PCT, but our Sustain Alpha is the best OTC PCT product put there, and the Testosterone Recover Stack we sell is fuckin top notch. Remember that Andros are very mild in comparison to most designer and black marker AAS. HPTA suppression is still a reality though.

I personally run 8-12 week Andro cycles. I would say 6-8 was very popular when PP had the Icon-one formula. Andros are slow to kick in so anything under 6 is pointless, and we want to solidify gains over time. I'd say stick with 8 weeks your first time around.

You could use Alpha-7 as a bridge into PCT, but it might not be strong enough anabolicly to help hold on to/solidify gains. I would personally run Alpha-7 in PCT as I dont think 100mg Androsterone is enough to keep suppressing test. However that is my own opinion and not advice to follow.
You’ve been incredibly helpful! I will stick to 8 weeks then. Also, I’m glad to hear that alpha 7 can be run during pct! If one did go the route of the testosterone recovery stack, 4 weeks is sufficient for pct or does it need to be run longer?
 

mavup

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i started alpha 7 last 2 weeks of my icon one 8 week run...about the 6 week mark when i started alpha 7 i was starting to experience some mild lethargy and some loss of libido...almost immediately upon starting alpha seven energy and libido went way up. i continued to run alpha seven for the 2 weeks after icon one.

i gained 7lbs of muscle and have kept all my gains.
This is good to know. Exactly what I was looking for; thanks!
 

mavup

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You guys have already answered my questions, but would you be able to put a short description of what each one is best used for? I think it would be helpful for others. So far I’ve gotten that size is icon-1, cutting hardening is alpha-7, etc. maybe this is somewhere else and I just missed it, in which case I apologize and would be happy to summarize it here for others
 
cheftepesh1

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@mavup

Cutting

Ultra Hard : 28 applications @ 5 pumps
125mg Androsterone
375mg epiandro

Lean Bulk

Alpha Four : 28 Applications @ 5 pumps
225mg 4-DHEA
100mg Androsterone

Cutting

Ultra Epi : 28 Appliactions @ 5 pumps
450mg Epiandrosterone

Cutting

Alpha seven : 28 applications @ 5 pumps
200mg Androsterone
75mg 7-keto
 
cheftepesh1

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Cutting

Ultra Hard : 28 applications @ 5 pumps
125mg Androsterone
375mg epiandro

Lean Bulk

Alpha Four : 28 Applications @ 5 pumps
225mg 4-DHEA
100mg Androsterone

Cutting

Ultra Epi : 28 Appliactions @ 5 pumps
450mg Epiandrosterone

Cutting

Alpha seven : 28 applications @ 5 pumps
200mg Androsterone
75mg 7-keto
 

mavup

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Cutting

Ultra Hard : 28 applications @ 5 pumps
125mg Androsterone
375mg epiandro

Lean Bulk

Alpha Four : 28 Applications @ 5 pumps
225mg 4-DHEA
100mg Androsterone

Cutting

Ultra Epi : 28 Appliactions @ 5 pumps
450mg Epiandrosterone

Cutting

Alpha seven : 28 applications @ 5 pumps
200mg Androsterone
75mg 7-keto
Awesome. Thanks for this; it will definitely be helpful down the road as I try all of these!
 
thebigt

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Awesome. Thanks for this; it will definitely be helpful down the road as I try all of these!
definately all worth a run!!!
 
Iwilleattuna

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Does 1-andro basically convert to dihydroboldenone (dhb)?
 

Jloz123

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I'll be in here periodically to answer any questions you have on the new black series: Price, dosage, cycle set up, application points, etc.

If I dont get to it, the whole team is qualified. @thebigt @Marms @delsolrob
will alpha four assist in increased vascular our while on a caloric deficit. ? Also stacking it with ultra epi.
trying to get cut for summer. But want to keep size.

I’ve read icon one is more of a cutter .
 
Ape McGrapes

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will alpha four assist in increased vascular our while on a caloric deficit. ? Also stacking it with ultra epi.
trying to get cut for summer. But want to keep size.

I’ve read icon one is more of a cutter .
Alpha-4 is mostly ideal for use as a test base to avoid lethargy and libido loss that can come with using other hormones. Since it is a two step precursor to testosterone there is the potential for some conversion to estrogen and possible water retention. These properties make it ideal to add to any bulking cycle.

Icon-one on the other hand, while our strongest bulker, is much more ideal for lean hard gains. 1-Andro has zero estrogen conversion, and similar muscle building power as actual testosterone. It's my go to for all cuts. The addition of DHEA and Pregnalone help mitigate 1-Andro sides, acting similar to Alpha-4 as a light test base. This would ultimately be your most ideal stack with Ultra-Epi. Very synergistic, with the epi also helping to act as a test base for an extra 1-2 punch.
 
thebigt

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Alpha-4 is mostly ideal for use as a test base to avoid lethargy and libido loss that can come with using other hormones. Since it is a two step precursor to testosterone there is the potential for some conversion to estrogen and possible water retention. These properties make it ideal to add to any bulking cycle.

Icon-one on the other hand, while our strongest bulker, is much more ideal for lean hard gains. 1-Andro has zero estrogen conversion, and similar muscle building power as actual testosterone. It's my go to for all cuts. The addition of DHEA and Pregnalone help mitigate 1-Andro sides, acting similar to Alpha-4 as a light test base. This would ultimately be your most ideal stack with Ultra-Epi. Very synergistic, with the epi also helping to act as a test base for an extra 1-2 punch.
nice post!!!

i added alpha seven to last 2 weeks of icon one and loved it....but i have to admit, this winter when i do my 2nd run of icon one i'm running it with alpha four---i give very high marks to alpha four, it's treating me very well.
 
Ape McGrapes

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nice post!!!

i added alpha seven to last 2 weeks of icon one and loved it....but i have to admit, this winter when i do my 2nd run of icon one i'm running it with alpha four---i give very high marks to alpha four, it's treating me very well.
I'm waiting for gyms to open back up here in Philly or NJ. Which ever comes first. PA will not open any sooner than August 1st.

Going to run 12 weeks of Icon-1/Alpha-4 as my comeback stack.
 
Ape McGrapes

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@Jloz123 like @thebigt Said, Alpha-7 would also stack well with Ultra-epi. The Androsterone would compliment the Epiandrosterone perfectly and the 7-Keto would help keep the gains lean and even help trim some fat. All with minimal to negligible effects on the HPTA.
 
thebigt

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I'm waiting for gyms to open back up here in Philly or NJ. Which ever comes first. PA will not open any sooner than August 1st.

Going to run 12 weeks of Icon-1/Alpha-4 as my comeback stack.
i truly believe that will be a great stack!!!
 

Jloz123

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Alpha-4 is mostly ideal for use as a test base to avoid lethargy and libido loss that can come with using other hormones. Since it is a two step precursor to testosterone there is the potential for some conversion to estrogen and possible water retention. These properties make it ideal to add to any bulking cycle.

Icon-one on the other hand, while our strongest bulker, is much more ideal for lean hard gains. 1-Andro has zero estrogen conversion, and similar muscle building power as actual testosterone. It's my go to for all cuts. The addition of DHEA and Pregnalone help mitigate 1-Andro sides, acting similar to Alpha-4 as a light test base. This would ultimately be your most ideal stack with Ultra-Epi. Very synergistic, with the epi also helping to act as a test base for an extra 1-2 punch.
thanks. Ordered alpha four with ultra epi. But going to order some icon one to use instead of 4 and I’ll save that for another time .
 

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@Jloz123 like @thebigt Said, Alpha-7 would also stack well with Ultra-epi. The Androsterone would compliment the Epiandrosterone perfectly and the 7-Keto would help keep the gains lean and even help trim some fat. All with minimal to negligible effects on the HPTA.
yes, looking for nice body recomp will use icon1 and ultra epi
 
thebigt

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yes, looking for nice body recomp will use icon1 and ultra epi
the new black series is fantastic, lots of combos to choose from...you really can't go wrong with any of them, imo.
 
cheftepesh1

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That’s a great stack. Don’t forget PCT.
Any suggestions for this of a mild cycle? OTC pct and some mtest? Or what would be something good for this. Will be running cycle assist by competitive labs
 
thebigt

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Any suggestions for this of a mild cycle? OTC pct and some mtest? Or what would be something good for this. Will be running cycle assist by competitive labs
sustain alpha and invictus are always good for pct.
 

Jloz123

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sustain alpha and invictus are always good for pct.
gonna start Icon one and ultra epi tomorrow morning. Should I dose 5 pumps of each at the same time/ together in the AM ? Or should I Wait for one to dry then apply the other ? Or apply 3 pumps of icon plus 2 pumps of ultra in the AM let’s say 9am followed by 3 pumps of ultra and 2 pumps of icon at 8pm, split dosage ?

i appreciate the help in advance or suggestions for best results.
 
thebigt

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gonna start Icon one and ultra epi tomorrow morning. Should I dose 5 pumps of each at the same time/ together in the AM ? Or should I Wait for one to dry then apply the other ? Or apply 3 pumps of icon plus 2 pumps of ultra in the AM let’s say 9am followed by 3 pumps of ultra and 2 pumps of icon at 8pm, split dosage ?

i appreciate the help in advance or suggestions for best results.
are you running 2 bottles of each?
 
thebigt

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i would run icon one 5 pumps all the way thru, run the ultra epi at 3 pumps for 1st 4 weeks then increase to full 5 pumps...i would save whats left of ultra epi for another run...it will stay good for a long time with cap on.
 

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I might pick up a bottle of EPI to run towards the end of my icon one run. Anyone have a discount code?
 
thebigt

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I might pick up a bottle of EPI to run towards the end of my icon one run. Anyone have a discount code?
THEBIGT save 25% at iconicformulations.com
 
Segansational

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i would run icon one 5 pumps all the way thru, run the ultra epi at 3 pumps for 1st 4 weeks then increase to full 5 pumps...i would save whats left of ultra epi for another run...it will stay good for a long time with cap on.
For some reason I seem to recall seeing something about 4 vs 5 pumps in beta compared to final bottles. Am I making this up? I thought 4 pumps was the full ultra epi dose?
 
thebigt

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For some reason I seem to recall seeing something about 4 vs 5 pumps in beta compared to final bottles. Am I making this up? I thought 4 pumps was the full ultra epi dose?
ok, so i just went and looked at my bottle it says 4-5 pumps. post#18 shows 28 applications at 5 pumps...but i get what you are saying, the amount of epi in ultra epi is such a large amount for transdermal that i'm sure you would see great results at 4 pumps if looking to make bottle last longer. i don't think there is any other trandermal epi that even comes close to the amount in ultra epi.
 
thebigt

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For some reason I seem to recall seeing something about 4 vs 5 pumps in beta compared to final bottles. Am I making this up? I thought 4 pumps was the full ultra epi dose?
come to think of it, i don't think iconic released a beta of ultra epi...maybe you are thinking of alpha seven, i remember rob saying he made adjustment from beta to get more days of application in the final product?
@delsolrob
 
ECUKingbuddy

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I have to say I am loving Alpha 7 and Ultra Hard. I will have a full writeup at the end of my 8 week cycle, but I do think the sweet spot for me is 6 pumps a day. The difference was almost immediately noticeable, but I am also not the smallest guy either at around 5'8 - 240lbs.
 
delsolrob

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For some reason I seem to recall seeing something about 4 vs 5 pumps in beta compared to final bottles. Am I making this up? I thought 4 pumps was the full ultra epi dose?
when we did betas for Icon One and Alpha Seven, they were originally configured for 6 pumps per application. All of the current black series products are configured to offer max dosage at 5 pumps. That said, Ultra Epi should still offer ~360mg epiandro at 4 pumps..meaning the bottle should last closer to 5 weeks.

I would imagine many will find they don't need to run a full 5 pumps to see desired benefits...while I'm also sure some will try running 6-7 pumps a day
 
delsolrob

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Also, please remember to leave reviews for these on the site...this is paramount for our success (and being able to continue offering new products). I can't believe we haven't seen a review on Ultra Hard yet given the immediate popularity of Alpha Seven, we only have a handful of reviews so far.
 
thebigt

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I have to say I am loving Alpha 7 and Ultra Hard. I will have a full writeup at the end of my 8 week cycle, but I do think the sweet spot for me is 6 pumps a day. The difference was almost immediately noticeable, but I am also not the smallest guy either at around 5'8 - 240lbs.
looking forward to your write up.
 
Pl4typu5

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starting alpha seven or ultra hard tommorow (trying to decide what first) but wondering if I should apply pre Workout or post.

basicaly I get up, 1 hour later workout then 1 hour after go to work.
 

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