kwyckemynd00
Registered User
Okay, that's what I was thinking.
I know they'd have to present tests--that's a given. But, it seemed highly unlikely they'd ever have to tell the judge that this is a steroid that isn't already on the DSHEA.
IBE is in TROUBLE!!!!!!!
- Thread starter fibercarbon
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I know they'd have to present tests--that's a given. But, it seemed highly unlikely they'd ever have to tell the judge that this is a steroid that isn't already on the DSHEA.
poopypants
Banned
my guess is the judge wouldnt so much be the prob but if the FDA caught wind of the case that could have detrimental effects on the entire industry.... any publicity in this market is BAD... thats why we keep to boards and backs of magazines.
as nice as it is to see a 3rd party run their own tests its now come to the point of pointing at the other as a liar i dont belive anyone NOR DO I CARE! shii im making great strides with my choice of the 2 and ive heard others do the same with the opposite.... SO WHO GIVES!
yeahright
Well-known member
There is that. Whatever the chemical makeup of Epistane and Havoc, they are receiving rave user reviews....eliminating gyno....putting on muscle....with a low (apparent) side-effect profile.
poopypants
Banned
danm my typing sucks... i need to proof everything i write. lol
^^^edit LOL SEE
^^^edit LOL SEE
bbuild
New member
Carcinogen is PA's chemist.
yeahright
Well-known member
Which is exactly part of the problem. We get three tests (two using the same equipment) and they spit out three answers. I don't know anything about interpreting these results but I have to assume that there is a certain amount that is an art.....knowing from experience what glitches are likely..knowing what background noises should be expected....knowing that running a sample through quicker or slower will skew the results a tad. I can see how honest people could run tests like this and draw different conclusions.
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poopypants
Banned
is there not a more reliable form of testing??? this is obviouisly the quickest as its what everyones doin and spittin off results but if the results are so easily skewed then why is this the test of choice unless they are looking for misleading results.... or with experience create the desired results.... i wish i knew more on the subject of testing myself cause then id like to ask that one a these wiz's do the best possible most reliable testing and only except that as fact... just doesnt seem like whats gonna happen as EVERYONE has there own agenda and wants it to say what they want it to say...
neoborn
Well-known member
Fixed. Seriously, the more you post the more I would like to see your ass canned, banned and thrown in a dark place with Bubba for a while. Please stfu and creep back to the hot fiery place you came from MM!:smite: :yawn:
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yeahright
Well-known member
Let's try and keep this discussion from devolving into namecalling. There are other boards for that.
1Fast400
Well-known member
Neo, why are you taking your frustrations out on me. Instead of throwing wild comments, why don't you back up your opinion with some facts?
I think you're just mad that girl on bb.com is whipping up on you
. Anyone reading the bb.com thread on epistane knows what I'm talking about.
I think you're just mad that girl on bb.com is whipping up on you
. Anyone reading the bb.com thread on epistane knows what I'm talking about.1Fast400
Well-known member
As far as why the different results, realize, PA's results AREN'T different. They are actually the same. From some private emails with PA here is how he explains it:
So IBE got a test result with two peaks, they just never checked the MS to see that it was the same compound. They wanted it to be wrong, so they just stuck with the initial 2 peak theory. PA ran the stuff again and got the double peak, but compared against the MS, it came out with the EXACT same result he had the first time. He explains above why the double peak happened.
All IBE has done is prove that Havoc is what it is supposed to be. Think of it this way. IBE has been looking for something, I mean anything, that can put them back into a positive light. They just KNEW this testing was going to do that. Yet, you haven't seen them post the results, eventhough we KNOW they have them in hand and they said they were going to post them last night. They haven't, what does that tell you?
So IBE got a test result with two peaks, they just never checked the MS to see that it was the same compound. They wanted it to be wrong, so they just stuck with the initial 2 peak theory. PA ran the stuff again and got the double peak, but compared against the MS, it came out with the EXACT same result he had the first time. He explains above why the double peak happened.
All IBE has done is prove that Havoc is what it is supposed to be. Think of it this way. IBE has been looking for something, I mean anything, that can put them back into a positive light. They just KNEW this testing was going to do that. Yet, you haven't seen them post the results, eventhough we KNOW they have them in hand and they said they were going to post them last night. They haven't, what does that tell you?
poopypants
Banned
dude chill on the vendetta.... even he doesnt deserve to be railed like that. try to stay civil mayn.
neoborn
Well-known member
Remember the only thing that made this public this time was MM / 1noob:bruce2:
1Fast400
Well-known member
It's ok Pants. When it comes down to it, people that act this way, usually have no idea WHY they are really upset. He's been on bb.com changing around quotes and using my name. For someone to have that amount of anger, I'm curious what causes it. I have a feeling, asking him to outline it may prove difficult. I'll remain totally civil and not attack him personally, just whatever he thinks I've done that is SO evil.
poopypants
Banned
dood come on, NO ONE is in the positive light in this situation, spec. the consumer and you havent done more then your own share of stirring the pot???
the only thing i see here is a buncha grown ups playing nanny-nanny- boo-boo and leaving all us that are taking tha shii scratchin our heads:think:
like i said all i know is that i can no longer trust any one but my own results and the logs of other reliable members and the blood they run. at this point its the only thing that matters and trying to deface eachothers comps is just hurting the entire industry thats allready on a shaky foundation as is.... it just makes me sad.
yeahright
Well-known member
As a mod here, it's my job to try and facilitate discussion. Namecalling generally doesn't do that.
1Fast400
Well-known member
Yes, I did make the email public. For a number of reasons:
#1 IBE admits to having not done 3rd party testing to this point. They had made claims otherwise prior
#2 IBE was in direct violation of numerous ethics laws involving business. This is something I think a consumer should know when deciding which company to show support to
#3 I had a strong belief that the test on Havoc was incorrect. I knew of the potential double peak issue via PA. That has since been confirmed.
In the end IBE not only broke laws, they passed incorrect information to distributors. Now, RPN has done NOTHING to IBE during this entire debate. Yet, IBE saw a chance to wrongly and illegal bash RPN and took full advantage of. I actually feel sorry for RPN. They did nothing wrong and now have a horrible reputation with distributors all because IBE couldn't compete in a fair market place. Maybe this would resonate with people more if they started their own company, only to be kicked square in the nuts for no reason.
neoborn
Well-known member
Man you are soooooooo full of sh!t. You talk to much and think too little, that's your problem.
P.s. I'll send you my bottle of EPI for $150 USD and you paypal me
.:smite:1Fast400
Well-known member
Please don't take this personally. The biggest problem with an argument like this is that that consumers don't have a strong enough knowledge base to understand what some of us are talking about. They just get confused and frustrated. It would be like someone trying to explain high level physics to the average person. It doesn't make them stupid, but it does make them ignorant.
There is plenty of factual information out there. If people will take the time, read through the results, they will see what the truth is. The reason some of us get real defensive in our posts is that it is easy for us to understand. We have trouble understanding why others don't get it. It's so simple, but once again, that is because we've dealt with things like this all the time.
poopypants
Banned
or maybe if thing were handled more privately in the first place, ie PA's test results and he did the same favor that he did DS 2 years ago then we wouldnt be havin any of these probs.... and let me say again.... if you werent breathing down there throats and screamin bloody murder across tha boards then maybe none of this woulda happened...
i didnt elect you to keep me safe from the supplemental boogie man and im sorry but i wish you would have kept to your retirement and just let us enjoy the gains.
do you not see how this extends beyond 2 companies and a handfull of Key instagators? your gonna trash the industry now that youve made your million?
sorry but i like having a legal alternative... even if it falls in the "grey area"
poopypants
Banned
fast no matter how concerned we sound man you never know whos sitting behind the keyboard, who the know or what they know.
so dont act as the masses are ignorant and if our ignorance was about anything then it would be in the faith we placed with the leaders of the industry, chemists they may be or business men.... but ethical they are far from.
with that im just done man im just happy my tits are shrinkin and im getting larger along the way.... besides if i didnt know a proper diet and routine these poisons would serve me nothing.
good luck and i truely hope you realize what a DIS service your doing for everyone.
so dont act as the masses are ignorant and if our ignorance was about anything then it would be in the faith we placed with the leaders of the industry, chemists they may be or business men.... but ethical they are far from.
with that im just done man im just happy my tits are shrinkin and im getting larger along the way.... besides if i didnt know a proper diet and routine these poisons would serve me nothing.
good luck and i truely hope you realize what a DIS service your doing for everyone.
1Fast400
Well-known member
I can't be held responsible for what PA did. This was going on before I jumped in. I saw PA's results at the arnold. I saw the Epistane had a MW that WAS NOT the compound claimed on the bottle. I saw that Havoc was. In this particular case, Epistane seems to be an anabolic of some sort that is giving people gains. I've never once claimed that the product doesn't work. Just that it doesn't contain what the label says. What if the random compound would have been something else? I bet you wouldn't be feeling the same way. When I got involved, I realized I probably shouldn't have said anything and just stayed out. However, I saw IBE making claims they tested the material, which I knew wasn't true with the results I saw. That is when I decided to do my own testing. The bottle was ordered from Island Supplements, as it showed in stock, but it wasn't. I have forwarded the emails from the lab to jayhawk to verify that all of this was done.
Don't read the threads. There is nothing forcing you to be here. It's a free country. Both of these companies will continue to make products. The only difference that will happen is that both companies will be testing the raw material to make sure it is legit. To me, that is a GOOD thing for the consumer. It always will be. You can continue enjoying your gains. There is way to much profit in these underground products for them NOT to be made. You as the consumer won't be affected I assure you.
No, I'm getting ready to close a deal to purchase a supplement company. I can assure you that if IBE ever sent a letter like they did, against a company I owned, they'd be served in a court of law within 7 days. What they did was very illegal. Our industry needs to realize, especially these small underground little guys, that you can't violate direct laws and get away with it. If you let IBE get away with it, who says that Optimum can't do it to SAN?
These types of products will be around for years. The DEA is doing everything they can to catch stuff coming in the US and they're getting A LOT better. They'll never get everyone. There willl ALWAYS be someone selling a new designer steriod of the week. ****, someone paid me for the rights to Super One+ the other day. They're going to re-release a topical 1-test/4AD product. Now that is illegal as hell. However, there is a demand for it. Anywhere there is demand, there will be supply. That simple
1Fast400
Well-known member
Based on some of the insane questions/comments that have been posted, it is overly obvious that a lot of people don't understand anything about the testing. You've said yourself you don't understand everything that goes on. It doesn't mean you're stupid by any means, you're just not knowledgeable about all of this testing stuff.
If asking companies to be ethical in their business practices and to actually put what they claim on the side of the label in the bottle is a "disservice", I'm guilty as charged.
neoborn
Well-known member
Neo, why are you taking your frustrations out on me. Instead of throwing wild comments, why don't you back up your opinion with some facts?
I think you're just mad that girl on bb.com is whipping up on you
Why
why?? here are my facts on you:1. You consistently cause sh!t on any forum I see you on via flaming / instigating / talking b$
2. You consistently belittle and put down people - honestly you are not as smart as you think you are or as witty.
3. You consistently talk smack with no tests, no proof and nothing other than hot air for your subject matter
4. You consistently go on about how amazingingly wealthy, successful or just all round fabulous you are - here's a clue let other people say it not only yourself.
As for facts I can guarantee more than anything all your posts fall into one of these catagories / numbers. I am not angry with you but your continual drivel does mildly piss me off. Yes I would be happy if you would do as Poopy suggests ( and believe me his opinion is the general status quo ). I personally haven't seen anyone say the like / love you or your posts or that you even help on this board or bb.com. If you are respected and loved here you are worthy...if bb.com you must just give away free products or something :d
1Fast400
Well-known member
Do a search under this user name on bb.com. The reason why I was successful is because I always took care of my customers. I was more of a customer advocate than any other business owner was on the boards.
I came in harsh no doubt. I shouldn't have gotten so disgusted with people that couldn't understand the situation. That was my fault. If you noticed, I've toned that down. I've spent years helping people with supplements and their useage. Your comments are unwarranted. Do a search and you'll see that.
I still think you're mad that girl was whopping up on you on bb.com
I came in harsh no doubt. I shouldn't have gotten so disgusted with people that couldn't understand the situation. That was my fault. If you noticed, I've toned that down. I've spent years helping people with supplements and their useage. Your comments are unwarranted. Do a search and you'll see that.
I still think you're mad that girl was whopping up on you on bb.com
neoborn
Well-known member
Do a search under this user name on bb.com. The reason why I was successful is because I always took care of my customers. I was more of a customer advocate than any other business owner was on the boards.
I came in harsh no doubt. I shouldn't have gotten so disgusted with people that couldn't understand the situation. That was my fault. If you noticed, I've toned that down. I've spent years helping people with supplements and their useage. Your comments are unwarranted. Do a search and you'll see that.
I still think you're mad that girl was whopping up on you on bb.com
Well how about you get back to being mr.f'inghelpful instead of what I have known of you the past month? How about be nice? How about I just rate all your posts with my little 1-4 category system? If you were nice and didn't boast your posts would be better I'm sure
A whooping on bb.com...sure why not.. from a girl for free...fine B====>:hammer:
neoborn
Well-known member
This thread is about how mike likes to post and talk on forums. Also about how two companies are vying for the top spot in relation to a current PH that they are both selling and making some nice money from. It most certainly is not about lawsuits, results or anything else that will bring a result more than drama.
Ty
/thread
Jayhawkk
Legend
I have seen emails with a from: of Mike and a To: of the lab in question. These emails contained conversation stating that the labs were to be done and the hold up was due to it being out of stock from the source they were using.
I will say that I do not know if these emails are legit or if the conversations were altered prior to me getting them but what i personally saw seemed to show that the intent to get the labwork done was initially there.
I will say that I do not know if these emails are legit or if the conversations were altered prior to me getting them but what i personally saw seemed to show that the intent to get the labwork done was initially there.
kwyckemynd00
Registered User
Ahhhh, I just realized why neo doesn't like me. I jumped him pretty hard on bb.com when he made a comment. I made fun of him being from canada
Making fun of Canadians? I suddenly like you much better. :cheers:
poopypants
Banned
fast im sorry man you made some good points on your post previous to this one... and you mind tellin me whos comin out with the trans??? id like it if ITS legit.
but as for this quote its fairly hypocritical of you to say such a thing then go off like you did @ BB.com with BK on Dr.D for doing the same with oxy.... AND thats not even about whats on the inside of the bottle as that comp couldnt even make up their own mind as to what was in it (diff compound on 2 sides of the paper).... please i understand that there will ALWAYS be a new one but maybe i enjoy the side free gyno deminishing one im usin right now and would like it to have its own fair run before getting canned without the help from outsiders....
n NEO dude i understand you donna likey but play nice with the other children..... :hammer:
thnks jay for verifying what might have been an attempt, id have to say i belive he tried. but i wish that ALL would just chill and the only reason i continue to reply is to try to petition fast to chill himself and let other comps handle their own biz.... no matter how "good" your intentions may be sir.
DR.D
Well-known member
(Just wanted to copy this statement.)
So, how do you know this, Mike? How do you justify this statement of fact?
DR.D
Well-known member
Where is this data coming from? Did Carcinogen post his chromo showing 1 mw? Please give me the link...
colindep
Member
I suddenly like you much less :hammer:
grantr
Banned
friction515
Member
Those arent the results those are the supposed results.
DR.D
Well-known member
Thanks G, but I must be missing it, I don't see the results? Are they posted in a different thread or something?
DR.D
Well-known member
Oh!! Haha, why didn't you say so, so there are no results really! Nevermind then.
jmh80
Well-known member
My 9th grade English teacher said that WVa is the "armpit of the Earth - never go there, Jmh80."
I've ascribed to that train of thought from there on.
1Fast400
Well-known member
I'm done till monday as I'm gone to vegas and not taking a computer with me. I'm sure by the time I come back there will be other fun going on.
In closing, IBE still doesn't get that posting the results, regardless of chain of custody with RPN's products violates laws. I know, I was sued for the very same thing 3 years ago.
In closing, IBE still doesn't get that posting the results, regardless of chain of custody with RPN's products violates laws. I know, I was sued for the very same thing 3 years ago.
friction515
Member
Really, so why is it illegal to post results that are correct?
So if I test drinking water and it's impure it's illegal for me to inform people of that?
I don't know the laws so a little clarification would be great. How can that be illegal? Seems unfortunate if it is.
So if I test drinking water and it's impure it's illegal for me to inform people of that?
I don't know the laws so a little clarification would be great. How can that be illegal? Seems unfortunate if it is.
friction515
Member
And why didn't they post their own results?
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