Iron Lungz
Banned
Tex, I think at Day 6, it may be a bit early to make that determination. Let's sit back and wait until the end of the log to see what CelC has to say in this regard. That's fair, isn't it?
IBE Formex - Oral Formestane MCPE
- Thread starter celc5
- Start date
Tex, I think at Day 6, it may be a bit early to make that determination. Let's sit back and wait until the end of the log to see what CelC has to say in this regard. That's fair, isn't it?
Gator Alum 03
Member
I'm on day 5 of Formex (2 caps a day, 1 at 8 am, 1 at 4:00 pm, which is 1 hr pre-workout). I blasted shoulders today, which lasted about 45 mins, then upon downing my shake....I decided to shoot hoops. I ended up playing 5 on 5 with some guys and the energy I had was nuts. I played b-ball for about 45 mins. and once I hit my second wind, which came rather quickly, I felt great. I also felt really warm from the inside out. Just thought I'd throw that in, as I suppose it's the Formex at work? Who knows. This is my first go around with any type of Formestane.
Anyways, i'm enjoying your log so far Celc. Thanks for all the insight.
buster0371
Well-known member
Thats Right
smshannon001
Well-known member
what was your dosing and product last summer for your SERMs and AIs... you said it reduced it for a while but then it came back?
have you done any cycles from the time you did reduction til now?
have you done any cycles from the time you did reduction til now?
buster0371
Well-known member
^
x2
x2
GotTest
Active member
I was thinking the same thing.:thumbsup:
I was also curious about 4/day, but I'm like you celc, AI's foul my sleep up.
celc5
Well-known member
Replies are in order of your posts fellas:
TexasLifter,
You'll be surprised but I've never tried BCS's Formedex. I HAVE tried bulk powder oral formestane, tastes pretty nasty btw LOL It takes about 100-200mg 3-4 times per day of the bulk powder to equal 80-100mg TD twice per day.
I agree with Iron Lungz in that it's too soon to compare Formex yet. We are the guniea pigs for the MCPE delivery so it's possible that it just takes longer to build up a baseline than with mega dosed bulk powder.
GotTest,
Stop looking at my nips :laugh:
Gator,
Sweet deal brotha. I agree in that end of workout endurance has been my most notable benefit from Formex in the first week.
TheBigT,
Whatup brotha!
Smshannon and Buster,
Gyno and prolactin symptoms were a rebound issue 2 months post pct after a havoc to SD bridge. That cycle was last August. Through December, I ran TD form/trione combo with Novedex for estrogen. I ran Powerfull, B6, tyrosine, and a few mucana products for dopamenergic effect to address prolactin.
This entire stack eliminated the sensations but never quite got rid of the lump. I added in Toremefine at that point, maybe 2-3 weeks in to try to finish it off. The gyno went down next to nothing after a few weeks so I tapered. Puffiness came and went throughout the entire process.
The gyno eventually came back to about the same size as it was initially. Sensitivity is super mild and no where near as bad as it was before that run. To this day, the only thing I notice is that the lumps and sensitivity go waaaay down post workout. Oh and I have NOT ran any cycles since having the mild gyno.
AZM,
thanks for the compliment. Welcome to the fun!
TexasLifter,
You'll be surprised but I've never tried BCS's Formedex. I HAVE tried bulk powder oral formestane, tastes pretty nasty btw LOL It takes about 100-200mg 3-4 times per day of the bulk powder to equal 80-100mg TD twice per day.
I agree with Iron Lungz in that it's too soon to compare Formex yet. We are the guniea pigs for the MCPE delivery so it's possible that it just takes longer to build up a baseline than with mega dosed bulk powder.
GotTest,
Stop looking at my nips :laugh:
Gator,
Sweet deal brotha. I agree in that end of workout endurance has been my most notable benefit from Formex in the first week.
TheBigT,
Whatup brotha!
Smshannon and Buster,
Gyno and prolactin symptoms were a rebound issue 2 months post pct after a havoc to SD bridge. That cycle was last August. Through December, I ran TD form/trione combo with Novedex for estrogen. I ran Powerfull, B6, tyrosine, and a few mucana products for dopamenergic effect to address prolactin.
This entire stack eliminated the sensations but never quite got rid of the lump. I added in Toremefine at that point, maybe 2-3 weeks in to try to finish it off. The gyno went down next to nothing after a few weeks so I tapered. Puffiness came and went throughout the entire process.
The gyno eventually came back to about the same size as it was initially. Sensitivity is super mild and no where near as bad as it was before that run. To this day, the only thing I notice is that the lumps and sensitivity go waaaay down post workout. Oh and I have NOT ran any cycles since having the mild gyno.
AZM,
thanks for the compliment. Welcome to the fun!
buster0371
Well-known member
interesting on the sensitivity going down post workout. any theories on why this is?
TexasLifter89
Well-known member
Celc, appreciate it. I will sit back and watch.
Yes, sorry about the Iron... I got antsy (and I didn't realize it was only day 6)
thebigt
Legend
bet on it-celc Always has a theory.:spam:
celc5
Well-known member
It's purely speculation but maybe there's more to the broski post workout hormonal surge we suspect. Honest to goodness, sometimes post workout I can't even find the lump, let's say 45 minutes post workout after a post wo meal. My guess is that estrogen fluctuates in response to training and the post workout meal. But my estrogenic response knowledge is next to none, so sorry BigT LOL
It's not terribly out of line. All of my AI experience has had FAST results comparatively. Those absorb typically through the gut though.
MCPE delivery with Formex skips all that and goes in through the large intestines (reps, please elaborate or correct me if my understanding is incorrect). So, yes we have to patient because this is very new delivery system as far as I know. It's possible that it may take another week or 2 to hit hard.
kknecht1
Member
I am looking forward to seeing how this stuff turns out.
I believe that Formex goes into the lymphatic system like dietary fats do.
buster0371
Well-known member
So other AI's you've tried have yielded faster results?
celc5
Well-known member
Day 9
Ya Ya! Learn's here!
Think I should be taking it with more well rounded meals then? ...that is, meals that have more fat than breakfast or preworkout? Elaborate my friend
Edit: I think we're both correct. It enters the lymphatic system via the bloodstrem through the hepatic portal vein. Along the way, it survives the stomach and bypasses the small intestines were most orals are broken down, absorbed, and sent to the liver. So, it's probably absorbed via large intestine via the hepatic portal vein. (again, reps correct us if we're full of bologne!)
Yes. Keep in mind, totally different delivery methods. Each AI has it's own unique pros and cons in my opinion.
Day 9
Friday, April 3, 2009
1 Cap Formex 9am
1 Cap Formex Noon
1 Cap Formex 3pm (sublingual experiment)
First off, I have no idea if Formestane has any sublingual absorption potential. Secondly, I have no idea if the MCPE attachment alters that potential in any way. Disclaimer complete
I learned 2 things:
1) This is legit formestane in Formex. I know the taste and it was form. However, I've never had such a small amount in under my tongue in the past so I was surprised at how easy it was to tolerate the taste of only 25mg LOL
2) Sublingual delivery of 1 cap of Formex is no more effective than typical oral administration :laugh:
Workout was brutal today. I had real good endurance and didn't fizzle until about 1 hour and 45 minutes in to the workout. My body is a wreck so I better keep the diet in check to recover :head:
Sitting here postworkout, the lump has temporarily shrunk and it's not sensitive at all. Just a little puffy closer to the nip, which isn't exactly where the lump is.
No other effects to note in terms of aggression, libido, vascularity today.
keep us posted man
i look fwd to my bottle on the way
Ya Ya! Learn's here!
Think I should be taking it with more well rounded meals then? ...that is, meals that have more fat than breakfast or preworkout? Elaborate my friend
Edit: I think we're both correct. It enters the lymphatic system via the bloodstrem through the hepatic portal vein. Along the way, it survives the stomach and bypasses the small intestines were most orals are broken down, absorbed, and sent to the liver. So, it's probably absorbed via large intestine via the hepatic portal vein. (again, reps correct us if we're full of bologne!)
Yes. Keep in mind, totally different delivery methods. Each AI has it's own unique pros and cons in my opinion.
Day 9
Friday, April 3, 2009
1 Cap Formex 9am
1 Cap Formex Noon
1 Cap Formex 3pm (sublingual experiment)
First off, I have no idea if Formestane has any sublingual absorption potential. Secondly, I have no idea if the MCPE attachment alters that potential in any way. Disclaimer complete
I learned 2 things:
1) This is legit formestane in Formex. I know the taste and it was form. However, I've never had such a small amount in under my tongue in the past so I was surprised at how easy it was to tolerate the taste of only 25mg LOL
2) Sublingual delivery of 1 cap of Formex is no more effective than typical oral administration :laugh:
Workout was brutal today. I had real good endurance and didn't fizzle until about 1 hour and 45 minutes in to the workout. My body is a wreck so I better keep the diet in check to recover :head:
Sitting here postworkout, the lump has temporarily shrunk and it's not sensitive at all. Just a little puffy closer to the nip, which isn't exactly where the lump is.
No other effects to note in terms of aggression, libido, vascularity today.
wearedbleedblue
Active member
Was it 90+ minutes of lifting or does that include warmup/cooldown? Thats intense man.
buster0371
Well-known member
^
X2
X2
celc5
Well-known member
Good Discussion Fellas!
Estimated workout timetable:
-20 minutes HIIT on the Treadmill
-20 minutes to do my 5x5 deadlift routine after 3 warm up sets
-20 minutes to finish off hams with romanian deadlifts and curls
-45 minutes to catch up on some upper body push movements that I missed yesterday due to helping a sick family member.
Edit: btw, I'm already on my third post workout meal. Macros are 20-40g pro and 20-30g carbs per meal. Most stuff has been fast digesting so far. In case I go out later, I'll put a few shakes in the car to make sure I keep eating every 2 hours to recover.
re: the dosage, yes recommended is 2 caps per day. What fun would that be? :head: I'm gonna cruise at 3 caps for a while and anticipate bumping it to 4 around day 15 or 20 just to see. I'm the guinea pig, so we should know what happens at different doses, different timing, and different strategies so you all know what you're getting with Formex. I have a ton of experience with Formestane and like to experiment with low doses, normal doses, high doses, and way too high doses :laugh:
Estimated workout timetable:
-20 minutes HIIT on the Treadmill
-20 minutes to do my 5x5 deadlift routine after 3 warm up sets
-20 minutes to finish off hams with romanian deadlifts and curls
-45 minutes to catch up on some upper body push movements that I missed yesterday due to helping a sick family member.
Edit: btw, I'm already on my third post workout meal. Macros are 20-40g pro and 20-30g carbs per meal. Most stuff has been fast digesting so far. In case I go out later, I'll put a few shakes in the car to make sure I keep eating every 2 hours to recover.
re: the dosage, yes recommended is 2 caps per day. What fun would that be? :head: I'm gonna cruise at 3 caps for a while and anticipate bumping it to 4 around day 15 or 20 just to see. I'm the guinea pig, so we should know what happens at different doses, different timing, and different strategies so you all know what you're getting with Formex. I have a ton of experience with Formestane and like to experiment with low doses, normal doses, high doses, and way too high doses :laugh:
buster0371
Well-known member
OK I GOT A SERIOUS QUESTION.
if formex is supposed to be a PCT powerhouse, yet you say that it is taking longer to see any effects from than other ai products, than wouldnt it be less effective for pct?
if formex is supposed to be a PCT powerhouse, yet you say that it is taking longer to see any effects from than other ai products, than wouldnt it be less effective for pct?
celc5
Well-known member
In my personal opinion, I don't think things happen fast during pct for both "good" hormonal changes and "bad" hormonal changes. But I have to say that in my experience, I'm not much of a fan of formestane during pct anyway (regardless of delivery method). It just doesn't have that badasss kick in that timeframe in my experience. I like it ON cycle and solo like I'm doing now.
So in good conscience, I can't really answer your question. I'm sure a rep could really help you out though.
buster0371
Well-known member
u helped me out with that question actually. i appreciate your taste/oppinion
GotTest
Active member
Now your talking!
Thinking back to Dr Houser's CU on Formestane it stated:
- Studies using 250mg to 500mg of 4-hydroxyandrostenedione injected every 2 weeks, or oral
doses as high as 1000mg daily have failed to show any notable suppressive effect towards
testosterone concentrations
So given that info...4/day should work out fine.
I'm still looking for any research on the MCPE form of ANY drug and it's efficacy. Not that I'm a doubter, I'd just like to see some medical research (It's the nerd in me:22
. Maybe neon can jump over hear and enlighten us.
thebigt
Legend
even at 4 caps it's still=to just 100mgs of formestane, and dana recommended a full gram ed for oral delivery. imo even at 4 a day it would still beat a gram of bulk. that is if results bare this out. btw good luck getting neon out of the 'house'. lol.Now your talking!
Thinking back to Dr Houser's CU on Formestane it stated:
- Studies using 250mg to 500mg of 4-hydroxyandrostenedione injected every 2 weeks, or oral
doses as high as 1000mg daily have failed to show any notable suppressive effect towards
testosterone concentrations
So given that info...4/day should work out fine.
I'm still looking for any research on the MCPE form of ANY drug and it's efficacy. Not that I'm a doubter, I'd just like to see some medical research (It's the nerd in me:22
GotTest
Active member
:toofunny:
I'll have to go over to his "house" and ask him.
buster0371
Well-known member
hmmmmmm
celc5
Well-known member
Day 10
BigT,
Neon probably is too busy for this thread. He has 6 hours of responses to my questions to catch up on at SA :laugh:
Steveoph,
Glad you're subbed brotha. I've always liked to make comparisons in my logs. There's so many products out there, it's hard to decide what actually does what without stereotyping them all together... especially with all the AI options that we have at our disposal.
GotTest,
My experience with oral bulk form powder is very similar to the dosages you are suggesting.
Day 10
Saturday, April 4, 2009
1 cap Formex 9am
1 cap Formex 6pm
Aggression may have been up just slightly today. I caught myself getting irritated with stupid people more easily. I'm not feeling that "rip someone's face off" aggression yet, But it would certainly be invited knowing that it would help with my brutal DL routine next week.
Libido is normal. Muscle hardness, fullness, and vascularity are normal. Nothing different to report today in regards to gyno than I typed in yesterday's daily update.
Side: poor sleep patterns last night
BigT,
Neon probably is too busy for this thread. He has 6 hours of responses to my questions to catch up on at SA :laugh:
Steveoph,
Glad you're subbed brotha. I've always liked to make comparisons in my logs. There's so many products out there, it's hard to decide what actually does what without stereotyping them all together... especially with all the AI options that we have at our disposal.
GotTest,
My experience with oral bulk form powder is very similar to the dosages you are suggesting.
Day 10
Saturday, April 4, 2009
1 cap Formex 9am
1 cap Formex 6pm
Aggression may have been up just slightly today. I caught myself getting irritated with stupid people more easily. I'm not feeling that "rip someone's face off" aggression yet, But it would certainly be invited knowing that it would help with my brutal DL routine next week.
Libido is normal. Muscle hardness, fullness, and vascularity are normal. Nothing different to report today in regards to gyno than I typed in yesterday's daily update.
Side: poor sleep patterns last night
learn
Well-known member
hope things start getting more noticeable for ya . I am looking fwd to getting minez in soon and want to hear it working for you.
celc5
Well-known member
Day 11
Learn,
Right on bro. Noticing some changes that I'll address in today's update.
BigT,
Yes, you're correct. My sleep patterns are always a wreck when I'm on AI's. So, in terms of Formex, I agree that it's probably a sign that something is happening.
Day 11
Sunday, April 5, 2009
1 cap Formex 8am
1 cap Formex 11am
1 cap Formex 2pm
Male performance was enhanced last night in bed. My girl and I both noticed increased hardness and stamina. I don't think I have any significantly enhacned libido yet though.
Irritability/aggression are up just slightly. Actually, it's more irritability and not really translating into any aggression in the gym just yet.
Today's workout was solid. Preworkout cardio and the entire lift were very typical and average for me in terms of muscle fullness, hardness, pump, vascularity. So no effects to report in that realm. I'm getting antsy for the typical form strength boost... but I do have hope now that I'm seeing some mild effects in other categories that I can attribute to Formex.
Learn,
Right on bro. Noticing some changes that I'll address in today's update.
BigT,
Yes, you're correct. My sleep patterns are always a wreck when I'm on AI's. So, in terms of Formex, I agree that it's probably a sign that something is happening.
Day 11
Sunday, April 5, 2009
1 cap Formex 8am
1 cap Formex 11am
1 cap Formex 2pm
Male performance was enhanced last night in bed. My girl and I both noticed increased hardness and stamina. I don't think I have any significantly enhacned libido yet though.
Irritability/aggression are up just slightly. Actually, it's more irritability and not really translating into any aggression in the gym just yet.
Today's workout was solid. Preworkout cardio and the entire lift were very typical and average for me in terms of muscle fullness, hardness, pump, vascularity. So no effects to report in that realm. I'm getting antsy for the typical form strength boost... but I do have hope now that I'm seeing some mild effects in other categories that I can attribute to Formex.
buster0371
Well-known member
glad to hear some positave is coming
Gator Alum 03
Member
Interesting about the sleep patterns. I'm on day 7 and I've been sleeping like a baby, but I've also been dosing ZMK, 1-carboxy, and my own personal 7-oh concoction from Custom Capsule. I'm also only dosing Formex at 50mg/day so I suppose that could be it.
celc5
Well-known member
nice I can't wait LMD told me that minez will me on the way
So far it's a mild AI. We'll see if effects escalate with time :head:
Agreed. Like I said when I dropped the sublingual experiment, the form is legit because I'm familiar with the distinct taste. So, it's a test for the delivery method to increase bioavailability.
Like BigT said, poor sleep patterns are common for me with AI's. I'm sure there's some sort of hormonal flux that occurs with me, but beyond that I can't offer much more intelligent explanation :dunno: IME, sleep aides work well when I'm not taking any supps. But when a stim, AI, or ph/ps disrupt sleep, nothing can help me :rant:
Iron Lungz
Banned
Either BigT or you, CelC5, asked about the half life of Formex. Well, I cannot answer this with 100% certainty that it's correct. Half life is not something you can calculate at home, you need controlled studies that would take months for proper analysis. Up until this point, this has not been done. And we, unlike some companies, are not going to post half life's that are a theory. Sorry that we can't answer this at this point. Maybe in the future.
celc5
Well-known member
No problem brotha. Appreciate the honest response! :cheers:
Iron Lungz
Banned
Thanks, man! It's easy when you know you are answering mature adults that can make rational choices for themselves. Plus, we don't want to lie to our customers, or make false claims.
AZMIDLYF
Legend
Nothing else needs to be said...spot on Iron!!
buster0371
Well-known member
learn
Well-known member
smshannon001
Well-known member
how many have used formestane as a bridge between cycles to keep up their gains?
meaning after a 4 week oral and a 4 week pct.. using it a month after that for a few weeks until the next cycle?
meaning after a 4 week oral and a 4 week pct.. using it a month after that for a few weeks until the next cycle?
celc5
Well-known member
Day 12
IMO I can't really put a finger on what's exactly going on yet. But, remind me about this particular idea at the end of the log and I'll do my best to make an educated guess at what potential there might be for extending the Formex run.
Day 12
Monday, April 6, 2009
1 cap Formex 8am
1 cap Formex Noon
1 cap Formex 4pm
Today's workout felt a bit burdensome. Motivation wasn't there after a long work day. The workout started out lame and I could have used a kick in the asss to straighten out my attitude at the beginning. But, I have to say that I got a second wind toward the 2nd half of my workout. It was an unexpected boost!
Stats were updated from this past weekend. Also, I made some mistakes with my data from day 1 so I corrected those (turned out to be super minor in terms of the calculations anyway). See post #2 on page 1 for the updates.
IMO I can't really put a finger on what's exactly going on yet. But, remind me about this particular idea at the end of the log and I'll do my best to make an educated guess at what potential there might be for extending the Formex run.
Day 12
Monday, April 6, 2009
1 cap Formex 8am
1 cap Formex Noon
1 cap Formex 4pm
Today's workout felt a bit burdensome. Motivation wasn't there after a long work day. The workout started out lame and I could have used a kick in the asss to straighten out my attitude at the beginning. But, I have to say that I got a second wind toward the 2nd half of my workout. It was an unexpected boost!
Stats were updated from this past weekend. Also, I made some mistakes with my data from day 1 so I corrected those (turned out to be super minor in terms of the calculations anyway). See post #2 on page 1 for the updates.
celc5
Well-known member
That's probably the best way to use it. Especially in the summer when you're cutting... let's look at it this way, form helps to maintain strength even when you're skimping on carbs. And let's say you have an ephedrine stash or become a thermogenic junky... form helps to keep libido rockin when you're all stimmed out. So yes, IMO a bridge between cycles during the summer is a good formestane strategy.
buster0371
Well-known member
seems like you always get a second wind going huh?