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i am for phil

My female Husky hunches my Male Pit bull.. Not because some weird sexual deviance.. But because she is the dominant dog.
 
Is a "sheeple" when a gay man commits bestiality with a sheep? I'm confused.
 
Zac Speed said:
My female Husky hunches my Male Pit bull.. Not because some weird sexual deviance.. But because she is the dominant dog.
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Better control that bitch
 
JudoJosh said:
Sheeple?

lol..

I am guided by observable and repeatable data. What is your guiding light? How do you explore and understand the world around you? If you have a tool that is better than the empirical evidence that science provides then please by all means share it.

My guess, and I am just guessing, that you are an emotional driven person who views the world purely through a subjective lens which works as a filter to make the world fit into a preconceived reality you have already been told to believe.

If someone is "sheeple" here, who do you think it is?
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You are the sheep.. How many times do I need to type it?
 
Rodja said:
You're a zoologist now, too?
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Actually Ive spent a lot of time around animals as a volunteer.. You learn a lot. I've had special privileges here at the Kansas City Zoo.

Homosexuality is a way of life conceived by humans... In the animal world it is a display of dominance and nothing more.
 
The disdain for education is strong in this thread.

--"Prove it!" We do.
--"Yeah, but *insert personal anecdote here*"

Me, Geo, Josh, Rodja are like the 4 Horsemen in this thread. Who wants to be Dennett, Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris? I've always been a Hitch guy myself.
 
Zac Speed said:
Actually Ive spent a lot of time around animals as a volunteer.. You learn a lot. I've had special privileges here at the Kansas City Zoo. Homosexuality is a way of life conceived by humans... In the animal world it is a display of dominance and nothing more.
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Are you familiar with the Dunning-Kruger effect? You should really look it up.
 
Homosexuality isnt a normal way of life. Just like an interracial marriage isnt.

The true way to define yourself as an upstanding understanding human being is to save judgement for each person in your life for due cause.

Treat others as you would want to be treated. I extended my hand in friendship to anyone and everyone who gives me the respect I seek and the respect that I have given.
 
Zac Speed said:
Homosexuality isnt a normal way of life. Just like an interracial marriage isnt. The true way to define yourself as an upstanding understanding human being is to save judgement for each person in your life for due cause. Treat others as you would want to be treated. I extended my hand in friendship to anyone and everyone who gives me the respect I seek and the respect that I have given.
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Are you trying to become a Grand Dragon?
 
Zac Speed said:
My female Husky hunches my Male Pit bull.. Not because some weird sexual deviance.. But because she is the dominant dog.
Click to expand...

Zac Speed said:
They don't do it because they are building a relationship.. They do it out of dominance.
Click to expand...

Zac Speed said:
Actually Ive spent a lot of time around animals as a volunteer.. You learn a lot. I've had special privileges here at the Kansas City Zoo.

Homosexuality is a way of life conceived by humans... In the animal world it is a display of dominance and nothing more.
Click to expand...

Fine, for the sake of discussion, lets just pretend for a second that you are correct.

When a male bonobo chimpanzee is engaging in sexual intercourse with another male bonobo chimpanzee, what distinctions can be observed to between how they engage in the sexual activity vs how a female and male bonobo chimpanzee engages in sexual activity?

If one act is clearly an act of aggression and dominance and the other one a mutual love and relationship, then there should be at least some kind of signs correct? Do homosexual bonobo chimpanzees thrust differently than heterosexual?

The answer is, there is no difference. There are no signs to differentiate observable asexual behavior between animals as aggressive or passive or about mating or about affection. The mating behavior between homosexual-oriented animals and heterosexually-oriented animals are identical.

So how are you making this claim? Please explain. You are saying I am wrong. I have provided empirical evidence to support my position. Now please present your evidence to refute my claim. Can you? Or is your stance based upon a purely subjective belief? Does the root of your argument stem from evidence or something you have been told to believe and you just accept?

Again I ask, who exactly is the sheep here?
 
Rodja said:
Where did I call you worthless? Your hypocrisy is evident to everyone in this thread and it's VERY ironic to call me hateful in a thread about disparaging remarks that you, for whatever "reason," support.
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if you had been paying attention you would know that my feelings and thoughts have changed, if that is what a hypocrite is then so be it, yes i had a change of heart thanks to the respectful posts made by geoforce, who never once badmouthed or attacked me...you on the other hand have attacked me personally from the beginning, and i just want to know what qualifies you to sit in judgement of me?
 
JudoJosh said:
Fine lets say you are correct. When a male bonobo chimpanzee is engaging in sexual intercourse with another male bonobo chimpanzee, what distinctions can be observed to between how they engage in the sexual activity vs how a female and male bonobo chimpanzee engages in sexual activity.

If one act is clearly an act of aggression and dominance and the other one a mutual love and relationship, then there should be at least some kind of signs correct? Do homosexual bonobo chimpanzees thrust differently than heterosexual?

The answer is, there is no difference. There are no signs to differentiate observable animal behavior as aggressive or passive or about mating or about affection. The mating behavior between homosexual-oriented animals and heterosexually-oriented animals are identical.

So how are you making this claim? Please explain. You are saying I am wrong. I have provided empirical evidence to support my position. Now please present your evidence to refute my claim. Can you? Or is your stance based upon a purely subjective belief? Does the root of your argument stem from evidence or something you have been told to believe and you just accept?

Again I ask, who exactly is the sheep here?
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Have you personally observed a male chimpanzee stick its' penis in another male Chimps ass?
 
Zac Speed said:
Actually Ive spent a lot of time around animals as a volunteer.. You learn a lot. I've had special privileges here at the Kansas City Zoo.

Homosexuality is a way of life conceived by humans... In the animal world it is a display of dominance and nothing more.
Click to expand...

au contraire mon frere....

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"
Homosexuality is quite common in the animal kingdom, especially among herding animals. Many animals solve conflicts by practicing same gender sex.

From the middle of October until next summer the Norwegian Natural History Museum of the University of Oslo will host the first exhibition that focuses on homosexuality in the animal kingdom.

"One fundamental premise in social debates has been that homosexuality is unnatural. This premise is wrong. Homosexuality is both common and highly essential in the lives of a number of species," explains Petter Boeckman, who is the academic advisor for the "Against Nature's Order?" exhibition.

The most well-known homosexual animal is the dwarf chimpanzee, one of humanity's closes relatives. The entire species is bisexual. Sex plays an conspicuous role in all their activities and takes the focus away from violence, which is the most typical method of solving conflicts among primates and many other animals.

"Sex among dwarf chimpanzees is in fact the business of the whole family, and the cute little ones often lend a helping hand when they engage in oral sex with each other."

Lions are also homosexual. Male lions often band together with their brothers to lead the pride. To ensure loyalty, they strengthen the bonds by often having sex with each other.

Homosexuality is also quite common among dolphins and killer whales. The pairing of males and females is fleeting, while between males, a pair can stay together for years. Homosexual sex between different species is not unusual either. Meetings between different dolphin species can be quite violent, but the tension is often broken by a "sex orgy".

Homosexuality is a social phenomenon and is most widespread among animals with a complex herd life.

Among the apes it is the females that create the continuity within the group. The social network is maintained not only by sharing food and the child rearing, but also by having sex. Among many of the female apes the sex organs swell up. So they rub their abdomens against each other," explains Petter Bockman and points out that animals have sex because they have the desire to, just like we humans.

Homosexual behaviour has been observed in 1,500 animal species.

"We're talking about everything from mammals to crabs and worms. The actual number is of course much higher. Among some animals homosexual behaviour is rare, some having sex with the same gender only a part of their life, while other animals, such as the dwarf chimpanzee, homosexuality is practiced throughout their lives."

Animals that live a completely homosexual life can also be found. This occurs especially among birds that will pair with one partner for life, which is the case with geese and ducks. Four to five percent of the couples are homosexual. Single females will lay eggs in a homosexual pair's nest. It has been observced that the homosexual couple are often better at raising the young than heterosexual couples.

When you see a colony of black-headed gulls, you can be sure that almost every tenth pair is lesbian. The females have no problems with being impregnated, although, according to Petter Boeckman they cannot be defined as bisexual.

"If a female has sex with a male one time, but thousands of times with another female, is she bisexual or homosexual? This is the same way to have children is not unknown among homosexual people."

Indeed, there is a number of animals in which homosexual behaviour has never been observed, such as many insects, passerine birds and small mammals.

"To turn the approach on its head: No species has been found in which homosexual behaviour has not been shown to exist, with the exception of species that never have sex at all, such as sea urchins and aphis. Moreover, a part of the animal kingdom is hermaphroditic, truly bisexual. For them, homosexuality is not an issue."

Petter Bockman regrets that there is too little research about homosexuality among animals.

"The theme has long been taboo. The problem is that researchers have not seen for themselves that the phenomenon exists or they have been confused when observing homosexual behaviour or that they are fearful of being ridiculed by their colleagues. Many therefore overlook the abundance of material that is found. Many researchers have described homosexuality as something altogether different from sex. They must realise that animals can have sex with who they will, when they will and without consideration to a researcher's ethical principles."

One example of overlooking behaviour noted by Petter Bockman is a description of mating among giraffes, when nine out of ten pairings occur between males.

"Every male that sniffed a female was reported as sex, while anal intercourse with orgasm between males was only "revolving around" dominance, competition or greetings.

Masturbation is common in the animal kingdom.

"Masturbation is the simplest method of self pleasure. We have a Darwinist mentality that all animals only have sex to procreate. But there are plenty of animals who will masturbate when they have nothing better to do. Masturbation has been observed among primates, deer, killer whales and penguins, and we're talking about both males and females. They rub themselves against stones and roots. Orangutans are especially inventive. They make dildos of wood and bark," says Petter Boeckman of the Norwegian Natural History Museum."

I'd be interested in hearing more about these "special privileges"......
 
BoneDaddy said:
au contraire mon frere....

Invalid Link Removed

"
Homosexuality is quite common in the animal kingdom, especially among herding animals. Many animals solve conflicts by practicing same gender sex.

From the middle of October until next summer the Norwegian Natural History Museum of the University of Oslo will host the first exhibition that focuses on homosexuality in the animal kingdom.

"One fundamental premise in social debates has been that homosexuality is unnatural. This premise is wrong. Homosexuality is both common and highly essential in the lives of a number of species," explains Petter Boeckman, who is the academic advisor for the "Against Nature's Order?" exhibition.

The most well-known homosexual animal is the dwarf chimpanzee, one of humanity's closes relatives. The entire species is bisexual. Sex plays an conspicuous role in all their activities and takes the focus away from violence, which is the most typical method of solving conflicts among primates and many other animals.

"Sex among dwarf chimpanzees is in fact the business of the whole family, and the cute little ones often lend a helping hand when they engage in oral sex with each other."

Lions are also homosexual. Male lions often band together with their brothers to lead the pride. To ensure loyalty, they strengthen the bonds by often having sex with each other.

Homosexuality is also quite common among dolphins and killer whales. The pairing of males and females is fleeting, while between males, a pair can stay together for years. Homosexual sex between different species is not unusual either. Meetings between different dolphin species can be quite violent, but the tension is often broken by a "sex orgy".

Homosexuality is a social phenomenon and is most widespread among animals with a complex herd life.

Among the apes it is the females that create the continuity within the group. The social network is maintained not only by sharing food and the child rearing, but also by having sex. Among many of the female apes the sex organs swell up. So they rub their abdomens against each other," explains Petter Bockman and points out that animals have sex because they have the desire to, just like we humans.

Homosexual behaviour has been observed in 1,500 animal species.

"We're talking about everything from mammals to crabs and worms. The actual number is of course much higher. Among some animals homosexual behaviour is rare, some having sex with the same gender only a part of their life, while other animals, such as the dwarf chimpanzee, homosexuality is practiced throughout their lives."

Animals that live a completely homosexual life can also be found. This occurs especially among birds that will pair with one partner for life, which is the case with geese and ducks. Four to five percent of the couples are homosexual. Single females will lay eggs in a homosexual pair's nest. It has been observced that the homosexual couple are often better at raising the young than heterosexual couples.

When you see a colony of black-headed gulls, you can be sure that almost every tenth pair is lesbian. The females have no problems with being impregnated, although, according to Petter Boeckman they cannot be defined as bisexual.

"If a female has sex with a male one time, but thousands of times with another female, is she bisexual or homosexual? This is the same way to have children is not unknown among homosexual people."

Indeed, there is a number of animals in which homosexual behaviour has never been observed, such as many insects, passerine birds and small mammals.

"To turn the approach on its head: No species has been found in which homosexual behaviour has not been shown to exist, with the exception of species that never have sex at all, such as sea urchins and aphis. Moreover, a part of the animal kingdom is hermaphroditic, truly bisexual. For them, homosexuality is not an issue."

Petter Bockman regrets that there is too little research about homosexuality among animals.

"The theme has long been taboo. The problem is that researchers have not seen for themselves that the phenomenon exists or they have been confused when observing homosexual behaviour or that they are fearful of being ridiculed by their colleagues. Many therefore overlook the abundance of material that is found. Many researchers have described homosexuality as something altogether different from sex. They must realise that animals can have sex with who they will, when they will and without consideration to a researcher's ethical principles."

One example of overlooking behaviour noted by Petter Bockman is a description of mating among giraffes, when nine out of ten pairings occur between males.

"Every male that sniffed a female was reported as sex, while anal intercourse with orgasm between males was only "revolving around" dominance, competition or greetings.

Masturbation is common in the animal kingdom.

"Masturbation is the simplest method of self pleasure. We have a Darwinist mentality that all animals only have sex to procreate. But there are plenty of animals who will masturbate when they have nothing better to do. Masturbation has been observed among primates, deer, killer whales and penguins, and we're talking about both males and females. They rub themselves against stones and roots. Orangutans are especially inventive. They make dildos of wood and bark," says Petter Boeckman of the Norwegian Natural History Museum."

I'd be interested in hearing more about these "special privileges"......
Click to expand...

It came from the interwebz... IT MUST BE TRUE
 
Zac Speed said:
Well I do have a giant Dragon tattoo across my back.. But I'm unfamiliar with this "Grand Dragon" you speak of..
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Its a leader of the KKK.

thebigt said:
if you had been paying attention you would know that my feelings and thoughts have changed, if that is what a hypocrite is then so be it, yes i had a change of heart thanks to the respectful posts made by geoforce, who never once badmouthed or attacked me...you on the other hand have attacked me personally from the beginning, and i just want to know what qualifies you to sit in judgement of me?
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The same thing that allows you to decide what is an accepted marriage and to support the ignorant ass statements that came from Phil Robertson.
 
Zac Speed said:
Have you personally observed a male chimpanzee stick its' penis in another male Chimps ass?
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That is not an answer to any questions I have asked. Please provide evidence to refute my claim and let us try and refrain from logical fallacies.
 
Zac Speed said:
It came from the interwebz... IT MUST BE TRUE
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Considering you posted that not even a minute after I posted, I'll just assume you didn't go to the website to view it's authenticity or the website's credibility. I'm guessing because it goes against everything you've said, which speaks of your credibility.
 
BoneDaddy said:
Considering you posted that not even a minute after I posted, I'll just assume you didn't go to the website to view it's authenticity or the website's credibility. I'm guessing because it goes against everything you've said, which speaks of your credibility.
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I can make a .gov website and make wild claims that look legit too.. You pulled something from a website with a study.. More or less a scientists theory..

Like I said.. I dont normally see male bucks ****ing each other. I DON'T NORMALLY see female dogs licking each other cooters.. Why? Because it IS NOT a NORMAL occurance.

God damn.. I guess abortion should be considered normal.. Rape should be considered normal.. Hell if a 12 year old boy wants to have sex with a 40 year old man.. That should be considered normal..
If I bend over some kid doing curls in the squat rack and bang him out.. Hell Thats normal.
 
BoneDaddy said:
Considering you posted that not even a minute after I posted, I'll just assume you didn't go to the website to view it's authenticity or the website's credibility. I'm guessing because it goes against everything you've said, which speaks of your credibility.
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Cognitive dissonance - Mental conflict that occurs when beliefs or assumptions are contradicted by new information. When confronted with challenging new information they seek to preserve their current understanding of the world by rejecting, explaining away or avoiding the new information by convincing themselves that the conflict does not exist.
 
Zac Speed said:
I can make a .gov website and make wild claims that look legit too.. You pulled something from a website with a study.. More or less a scientists theory..

Like I said.. I dont normally see male bucks ****ing each other. I DON'T NORMALLY see female dogs licking each other cooters.. Why? Because it IS NOT a NORMAL occurance.

God damn.. I guess abortion should be considered normal.. Rape should be considered normal.. Hell if a 12 year old boy wants to have sex with a 40 year old man.. That should be considered normal..
If I bend over some kid doing curls in the squat rack and bang him out.. Hell Thats normal.
Click to expand...

again with the logical fallacies. This clearly shows you have absolutely zero evidence to support your stance here
 
Zac Speed said:
I can make a .gov website and make wild claims that look legit too.. You pulled something from a website with a study.. More or less a scientists theory..

Like I said.. I dont normally see male bucks ****ing each other. I DON'T NORMALLY see female dogs licking each other cooters.. Why? Because it IS NOT a NORMAL occurance.

God damn.. I guess abortion should be considered normal.. Rape should be considered normal.. Hell if a 12 year old boy wants to have sex with a 40 year old man.. That should be considered normal..
If I bend over some kid doing curls in the squat rack and bang him out.. Hell Thats normal.
Click to expand...

You're right. I made that whole site up and wrote the study. Not those scientists or Oslow University. My bad. Scientists.....WTF do they know? What was I thinking? I should have said Pastors in the wild observed all of these things while trying to change the animals behaviors. That would've been more believable.

And for the record, I see dogs licking each others cooters all the time. I also see male dogs sniffing other male dogs asses. And that's without special privileges.
 
Every example given is of a man boning an underage boy. The thoughts of the anti-gay crowd tend towards pederasty for some reason, without considering two 40 year old men boning. Very telling. Or if it's not that, there's some kind of animal included in the mix. And these are immediate reactions, mind you; begging the question of how these guys are wired to link those things together?
 
Rodja said:
Its a leader of the KKK.



The same thing that allows you to decide what is an accepted marriage and to support the ignorant ass statements that came from Phil Robertson.
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i thought you were inteligent....you could not disagree without resorting to name calling? geo made his points very well without getting nasty or personal.

actually if you had bothered to read my post, you would see where my views have changed...but i don't think that matters to you, you seem more concerned with personal attacks than winning people over to a more moderate point of view. you could learn a lot from geoforce, i know i did!!!!
 
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Zac Speed said:
Homosexuality isnt a normal way of life. Just like an interracial marriage isnt.

The true way to define yourself as an upstanding understanding human being is to save judgement for each person in your life for due cause.

Treat others as you would want to be treated. I extended my hand in friendship to anyone and everyone who gives me the respect I seek and the respect that I have given.
Click to expand...

Respect? What do you KNOW about respect? Not only have you demeaned homosexuals repeatedly now you think different races can't marry? Wow, let's be glad you're not king. It's ok to have backwards views like interracial marriage isn't normal, but meanwhile the rest of society laughs at. You were truly born in the wrong times. Build a time machine and go back to when more people were racist. You just don't fit in with most of us anymore. I'm in Kansas City all the time and I hope I don't run into you. What will you say when you see me with any of my black friends? Is that allowed in your land of the free? Because I'm white. Or is it just marriage we can't do.

If I didn't know I was on the right side already it has been confirmed when the people most against my side miss Hitler and are against interracial marriage.

No wonder we have these issues.
 
JudoJosh said:
again with the logical fallacies. This clearly shows you have absolutely zero evidence to support your stance here
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Someone who can only argue from emotion has no time for logical fallacies. You're asking someone who doesn't think with logic to think logically.
 
Geoforce said:
Respect? What do you KNOW about respect? Not only have you demeaned homosexuals repeatedly now you think different races can't marry? Wow, let's be glad you're not king. It's ok to have backwards views like interracial marriage isn't normal, but meanwhile the rest of society laughs at. You were truly born in the wrong times. Build a time machine and go back to when more people were racist.

If I didn't know I was on the right side already it has been confirmed when the people most against my side miss Hitler and are against interracial marriage.

No wonder we have these issues.
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You really are dumb..

Seeing how I'm a mixed race person.. Grandpa is black on my mother's side and Great great grandmother is black on my dads side. You really show how dumb you are. Just because my skin is light doesn't mean I'm all white.

With that said I am intelligent enough to know interracial marriages aren't normal. They have their hardships.

I did not once say however it wasn't right.

You all are so caught up in this need to make gays accepted that you will defend anything and everything to make others agree.

It is unnatural and not the norm. Does it mean treat them as lesser beings. No.
 
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Zac Speed said:
You really are dumb..

Seeing how I'm a mixed race person.. Grandpa is black on my mother's side and Great great grandmother is black on my dads side. You really show how dumb you are. Just because my skin is light doesn't mean I'm all white.

With that said I am intelligent enough to know interracial marriages aren't normal. They have their hardships.

I did not once say however it wasn't right.

You all are so caught up in this need to make gays accepted that you will defend anything and everything to make others agree.

It is unnatural and not the norm. Does it mean treat them as lesser beings. No.
Click to expand...

It is true sometimes is difficult for different races even my wife and I where we have different cultural backgrounds but we work it out
 
thebigt said:
i thought you were inteligent....you could not disagree without resorting to name calling? geo made his points very well without getting nasty or personal. actually if you had bothered to read my post, you would see where my views have changed...but i don't think that matters to you, you seem more concerned with personal attacks than winning people over to a more moderate point of view. you could learn a lot from geoforce, i know i did!!!!
Click to expand...

So you're saying I should've been more PC with my approach? There's some beautiful irony right there.
 
Touey said:
It is ture sometimes is difficult for different races even my wife and I where we have different cultural backgrounds but we work it out
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Hell, my wife and I are an abnormal relationship. She is 16 years older than I. I would only recommend a life like this if Love was truely the motivator as it was in ours instead of sex or looks.

Is it weird being a step dad at 28 to 17, 15 and 13 year olds.. Yep. But I love them with all my heart as my own.

It is however not normal..
 
Zac Speed said:
Hell, my wife and I are an abnormal relationship. She is 16 years older than I. I would only recommend a life like this if Love was truely the motivator as it was in ours instead of sex or looks. Is it weird being a step dad at 28 to 17, 15 and 13 year olds.. Yep. But I love them with all my heart as my own. It is however not normal..
Click to expand...

Then why is it ok for you and not others?
 
Rodja said:
So you're saying I should've been more PC with my approach? There's some beautiful irony right there.
Click to expand...

so the fact that i have changed my view is irrelevant to you? actually i am open minded enough to see some good in almost everything, are you?

maybe you should seek help with your anger issues?
 
Zac Speed said:
Hell, my wife and I are an abnormal relationship. She is 16 years older than I. I would only recommend a life like this if Love was truely the motivator as it was in ours instead of sex or looks.

Is it weird being a step dad at 28 to 17, 15 and 13 year olds.. Yep. But I love them with all my heart as my own.

It is however not normal..
Click to expand...

I see your mistake now.

You are using the terms normal and natural as interchangeable terms.

First you stated it was unnatural but since then you stopped saying unnatural and replaced it with saying it isn't normal.

So if the position you are taking is homosexuality behavior is not normal behavior in the homo sapien species because it occurs at a lesser rate than heterosexuality behavior, then I am inclined to agree with you. In that sense it probably isnt normal.

The question now because, does that make it bad or wrong? Does normal = good and not normal = bad?

In the sense you are using to define normal, something that occurs in the majority, does being normal or not have any real merit? Society has changed throughout history and has experienced many things that were once normal and aren't any more. These changes can be good and bad. The denormalization of something and the subsequent rising in popularity for the opposite can be quite good. Two examples are women's rights and slavery. During the transatlantic slave trade, slavery was the most normal act. Everyone was doing it, literally the rest of the world was participating in slavery (actually North Americas involvement in the slave was pretty low compared to say South Americas involvement)

So we have an act, slavery, that was occurring at a very high frequency throughout civilization. It is safe to say that owning a salve during this time period was considered normal correct? Matter of fact something that would have been not normal would be if someone were to suggest slaves were not inferior creature and were equal to the rest of humanity. A statement like this would have not been normal.

Where am I going with this? This is just an example of why the bandwagon fallacy is a logical fallacy. That just because something is generally accepted as normal it does not make it right and conversely just because something isnt considered normal, it does not make it wrong. You evaluate claims based on the claim itself and not what the popular opinion is of the time.

So I can admit, homosexuality is probably not normal in humans. Now my question to you is what does this mean?
 
Zac Speed said:
Screw the religious side. It is unnatural because they can't reproduce. All living things purpose of life is reproduction. ****ing salmon die to reproduce.

So in a biological living sense. Homosexuality is unnatural. Its a perversion of the human mind and isnt normal.
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thebigt said:
so the fact that i have changed my view is irrelevant to you? actually i am open minded enough to see some good in almost everything, are you?

maybe you should seek help with your anger issues?
Click to expand...

not trying to be argumentative but am curious how did your view change exactly? I must have missed the post so if you can please reiterate your previous opinion and your now current opinion that would be great
 
Zac Speed said:
You really are dumb..

Seeing how I'm a mixed race person.. Grandpa is black on my mother's side and Great great grandmother is black on my dads side. You really show how dumb you are. Just because my skin is light doesn't mean I'm all white.

With that said I am intelligent enough to know interracial marriages aren't normal. They have their hardships.

I did not once say however it wasn't right.

You all are so caught up in this need to make gays accepted that you will defend anything and everything to make others agree.

It is unnatural and not the norm. Does it mean treat them as lesser beings. No.
Click to expand...

In this thread you define what is normal and the rest of us are expected to agree. And you are a gigantic hypocrite.

Yes I will defend interracial marriages. I will defend homosexual marriages.

Why stop though? What is "natural" to you? Same hair color? Same eye color? Same religious beliefs? (she better be a Methodist from the same town I'm from?) What about me I have European ancestry. Can I marry someone who is from a different part way back when of Europe? Or is that not natural? What about a girl who is taller than me? Is that natural? Shorter?

In your absurd world you claim stuff is unnatural (when it isn't).

And you have the gal to call me dumb. Wow. One of us isn't making much sense in this thread and isn't arguing with logic. That person is not me. Can you figure out WHO I'm talking about? Or are you only capable of deciding what is natural and not natural in marriage? It seems as if you have everything all worked out in regards to that.
 
JudoJosh said:
I see your mistake now.

You are using the terms normal and natural as interchangeable terms.

First you stated it was unnatural but since then you stopped saying unnatural and replaced it with saying it isn't normal.

So if the position you are taking is homosexuality behavior is not normal behavior in the homo sapien species because it occurs at a lesser rate than heterosexuality behavior, then I am inclined to agree with you. In that sense it probably isnt normal.

The question now because, does that make it bad or wrong? Does normal = good and not normal = bad?

In the sense you are using to define normal, something that occurs in the majority, does being normal or not have any real merit? Society has changed throughout history and has experienced many things that were once normal and aren't any more. These changes can be good and bad. The denormalization of something and the subsequent rising in popularity for the opposite can be quite good. Two examples are women's rights and slavery. During the transatlantic slave trade, slavery was the most normal act. Everyone was doing it, literally the rest of the world was participating in slavery (actually North Americas involvement in the slave was pretty low compared to say South Americas involvement)

So we have an act, slavery, that was occurring at a very high frequency throughout civilization. It is safe to say that owning a salve during this time period was considered normal correct? Matter of fact something that would have been not normal would be if someone were to suggest slaves were not inferior creature and were equal to the rest of humanity. A statement like this would have not been normal.

Where am I going with this? This is just an example of why the bandwagon fallacy is a logical fallacy. That just because something is generally accepted as normal it does not make it right and conversely just because something isnt considered normal, it does not make it wrong. You evaluate claims based on the claim itself and not what the popular opinion is of the time.

So I can admit, homosexuality is probably not normal in humans. Now my question to you is what does this mean?
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lol why does every one brings blacks into gays comparison one way or the other
 
Zac Speed said:
When did I ever say it wasn't ok? I've only said it is unnatural and not the norm.
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You compared homosexuality to being a pedafile. Do I need to continue to elaborate?

thebigt said:
so the fact that i have changed my view is irrelevant to you? actually i am open minded enough to see some good in almost everything, are you? maybe you should seek help with your anger issues?
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I didn't see anything saying you were now in support of gay marriage. Softened stance=/support.

As for my "anger issues," I'm one of the most laid back people you'll ever meet except for when it comes to ignorant fools trying to reduce the rights of others based on some erroneous "moral" standpoint from an archaic book that has been perverted dozens of times.
 
JudoJosh said:
I see your mistake now.

You are using the terms normal and natural as interchangeable terms.

First you stated it was unnatural but since then you stopped saying unnatural and replaced it with saying it isn't normal.

So if the position you are taking is homosexuality behavior is not normal behavior in the homo sapien species because it occurs at a lesser rate than heterosexuality behavior, then I am inclined to agree with you. In that sense it probably isnt normal.

The question now because, does that make it bad or wrong? Does normal = good and not normal = bad?

In the sense you are using to define normal, something that occurs in the majority, does being normal or not have any real merit? Society has changed throughout history and has experienced many things that were once normal and aren't any more. These changes can be good and bad. The denormalization of something and the subsequent rising in popularity for the opposite can be quite good. Two examples are women's rights and slavery. During the transatlantic slave trade, slavery was the most normal act. Everyone was doing it, literally the rest of the world was participating in slavery (actually North Americas involvement in the slave was pretty low compared to say South Americas involvement)

So we have an act, slavery, that was occurring at a very high frequency throughout civilization. It is safe to say that owning a salve during this time period was considered normal correct? Matter of fact something that would have been not normal would be if someone were to suggest slaves were not inferior creature and were equal to the rest of humanity. A statement like this would have not been normal.

Where am I going with this? This is just an example of why the bandwagon fallacy is a logical fallacy. That just because something is generally accepted as normal it does not make it right and conversely just because something isnt considered normal, it does not make it wrong. You evaluate claims based on the claim itself and not what the popular opinion is of the time.

So I can admit, homosexuality is probably not normal in humans. Now my question to you is what does this mean?
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His mistakes are numerous. However using terms like unnatural when trying to talk about what the majority of people does is highly misleading. It's not a surprise many of us didn't know what the hell he was trying to say.
 
Zac Speed said:
I didn't once compare. I said if we can fight to make gays normal, why not other abnormal sexual desires? As long as its consentual?
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You called interracial marriage unnatural and then said it was ok. Maybe if you get your positions straight we will have a better chance of attempting to figure out just what you are trying to say.

Part of your problem is if an intelligent person was going to say interracial marriage is not the majority form in our society then that it exactly how they would put it. They wouldn't say "unnatural" as that denotes not proper.
 
Geoforce said:
You called interracial marriage unnatural and then said it was ok. Maybe if you get your positions straight we will have a better chance of attempting to figure out just what you are trying to say.
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I said interracial marriage wasn't the norm.. Not unnatural.. I said being gay unnatural AND not the norm.

Maybe if you could read you would atop getting yourself confused?
 
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