i am for phil

Geoforce said:
Forced acceptance? Or equality of opportunity? My brother is gay. I know him very well. How many gay people do you know well? Why not? Are you afraid of them? Racists are afraid, sexists are afraid, BIGOTS are scared. They are scared of people who are different than them. It sounds like you are scared. From the images you posted it seems like you're scared of something different. You're the one who had to post the sexual images in this thread. You're the one who lacked the maturity to discuss something without resorting to that. You're the one who came off as juvenile. If you meet and hangout with some gay people see if they try and force you to be gay. See if that happens. Because I know multiple gay people and they are going to my wedding. They didn't force me to be gay. They don't care if I'm gay. They don't care if you're gay. They don't care if you like what they do. They just want the same opportunity as you have. Why do you want SOME people to have an opportunity and some people not to? Why is that? Explain it to me please. Why am I allowed to get married in a church in Eureka Springs Arkansas in a few months and my brother is not allowed to get married in that entire state? Why? What did HE do wrong? Why is he less than you? Because I can tell from reading your posts he is a MUCH more enlightened individual and intelligent individual than you are at this moment. He makes more money than you I bet. He helps out others MORE than you do I bet. He helps them out far more than me. He's constantly donating and volunteering. bigT brought up soldiers? We are a military family I said. My brother sends care packages and donates for military families ALL THE TIME. I don't do a very good job at either of those. This is anabolic MINDS. Have you ever thought YOU may be the problem? Have you ever wanted to change something about you? I want to be bigger, stronger, leaner. I also want to be more intelligent. It's why I'm here. Why are you here? I don't want whatever church you go to to not pay taxes and they don't. They are tax exempt. I believe they are breeding hate at your church and I don't think they should be tax exempt hate breeding grounds. Same thing as Westboro Baptist Church. We fund a lot of things I disagree with, deal with it. Are you ok with females getting pensions? How about blacks? At some point that wasn't ok either. Society changed. It's changing again. It's changing for the better. It's a crying shame you can't see that. Most unintelligent people STRUGGLE to recognize that. You don't have to accept it. They just want the same opportunities. You don't want to see two guys kiss change the ****ing channel dumbass. You don't want to see two gay guys get married don't go to the wedding of them. How many people would argue blacks should still be slaves? How many argue women shouldn't be allowed to hold power positions? At one point these were normal for a society. Things change. We PROGRESS. Only the most unintelligent backwater dumbasses are still against the things I mentioned. Surely you wouldn't want to be associated with them. I'm a rural guy from a rural area living in a rural area. I certainly am not racist or sexist. I'm not homophobic either. Get with the times. This ain't the 1914, it's 2014. IT DOESN'T EFFECT YOUR LIFE. AT ALL. PERIOD FLAT. You just want to pretend it does so you can hate someone based on how they were biologically born to be. Whatever happened to respect for your fellow humans?
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Very well said.
 
Thank you SR.

I'm really tired of talking about this though. I'd assume people who feel differently than me about the topic are tired of talking about it as well. I hope one day (honestly I really hope this) my kids don't have this type of conversation. I know not everyone will agree with me on that.

I will just say the people who feel like I do are growing in larger number than the people who feel otherwise. So be prepared to live in that world. It's GOING to happen. Adapt or die.
 
JoeBrooklyn said:
We win in the end Jesus is coming back.
Click to expand...

Good, I'll bring the wood and the nails. Let's do it all over again! Tired of being P.C. in this thread.
 
abs322 said:
the main problem is the forced acceptance that they are trying to achieve.. many, many, many people do not think it is a normal sexual behavior, do not want it promoted to their children as a normal alternative lifestyle, do not want their tax money being used to pay for same sex medical benefits, pensions etc.., do not want to see this crap on tv of two guys kissing, do not want their churches to be forced to change religious doctrine, do not believe marriage is for same sex deviants, do not want same sex marriage recognized as valid, do not want to be condemned as biggots or haters when the disgusting unnatural actions they are opposing serve no place in a normal society and most of all do not want special protected classes being legislated to try and legitimize and give preferential treatment to an unhealthy, abominable lifestyle.
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Excellent point!
 
JoeBrooklyn said:
Excellent point!
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Do you still have a thing for chicks on Anavar because their clïts get big and swollen and you love sucking them? I remember that about you. Hope Jesus forgives your sodomitical tendencies.
 
Piston Honda said:
Do you still have a thing for chicks on Anavar because their clïts get big and swollen and you love sucking them? I remember that about you. Hope Jesus forgives your sodomitical tendencies.
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LOL!!! I'm a sinner like everyone else. The difference is I dont demand others applaud my sins.
 
JoeBrooklyn said:
We win in the end Jesus is coming back.
Click to expand...

Why is it about winning and losing? I mean that seems like such an odd way to look at a difference of opinion. Society IS CHANGING. It changes all the time. It has throughout history. I wasn't bragging saying people who feel like me are growing in number therefore I am right. I simply said opinions on gays are changing and changing at a rapid pace.

It WILL be the way of the future whether or not abs accepts it. At one point black people and white people in the same school was socially unacceptable and that changed is all I was saying. I don't think my opinion is more valid because society is going to agree with me more in the future. That wasn't my point.

If you think I'm going to burn in hell for loving and supproting my gay brother then that is your right. If your brother was gay would you stop loving him? How incredibly horrible for gay people to not be supported by their own FAMILIES. I won't have any part of that...I'm a man and men love their families and accept them.
 
Geoforce said:
Why is it about winning and losing? I mean that seems like such an odd way to look at a difference of opinion. Society IS CHANGING. It changes all the time. It has throughout history. I wasn't bragging saying people who feel like me are growing in number therefore I am right. I simply said opinions on gays are changing and changing at a rapid pace. It WILL be the way of the future whether or not abs accepts it. At one point black people and white people in the same school was socially unacceptable and that changed is all I was saying. I don't think my opinion is more valid because society is going to agree with me more in the future. That wasn't my point. If you think I'm going to burn in hell for loving and supproting my gay brother then that is your right. If your brother was gay would you stop loving him? How incredibly horrible for gay people to not be supported by their own FAMILIES. I won't have any part of that...I'm a man and men love their families and accept them.
Click to expand...

Where do u get the idea that your going to burn in hell for loving your gay brother. Thats what we all should be doing. Thats not the point here.
 
[video=youtube;4o6hN8rxnPY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4o6hN8rxnPY[/video]
 
Invalid Link Removed
 
[video=youtube;Yc8x33lAnAk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yc8x33lAnAk[/video]
 
JoeBrooklyn said:
Where do u get the idea that your going to burn in hell for loving your gay brother. Thats what we all should be doing. Thats not the point here.
Click to expand...

Oh I thought you meant we win in the end because Jesus comes back as in those who feel as I do will lose on judgment day. I completely misinterpreted your post. I thought you felt as abs does.
 
Piston Honda said:
Good, I'll bring the wood and the nails. Let's do it all over again! Tired of being P.C. in this thread.
Click to expand...

Even though we may feel the same about religion in some instances this hurts your cause more than helps it man. It's just like abs posting some of the things he has. If you want people to change to the way you feel you gotta lay it out in civilized manners or they will disregard everything you say. I hope I've done that in this thread as much as possible. And I say that as someone who as agreed with ALMOST everything you've said in this thread. I don't agree with this at all. It won't help your cause.
 
I don't care any more about anything being said in this thread. From anyone
 
Geoforce said:
Forced acceptance? Or equality of opportunity? My brother is gay. I know him very well. How many gay people do you know well? Why not? Are you afraid of them? Racists are afraid, sexists are afraid, BIGOTS are scared. They are scared of people who are different than them. It sounds like you are scared. From the images you posted it seems like you're scared of something different. You're the one who had to post the sexual images in this thread. You're the one who lacked the maturity to discuss something without resorting to that. You're the one who came off as juvenile.

If you meet and hangout with some gay people see if they try and force you to be gay. See if that happens. Because I know multiple gay people and they are going to my wedding. They didn't force me to be gay. They don't care if I'm gay. They don't care if you're gay. They don't care if you like what they do. They just want the same opportunity as you have.

Why do you want SOME people to have an opportunity and some people not to? Why is that? Explain it to me please. Why am I allowed to get married in a church in Eureka Springs Arkansas in a few months and my brother is not allowed to get married in that entire state? Why? What did HE do wrong? Why is he less than you? Because I can tell from reading your posts he is a MUCH more enlightened individual and intelligent individual than you are at this moment. He makes more money than you I bet. He helps out others MORE than you do I bet. He helps them out far more than me. He's constantly donating and volunteering. bigT brought up soldiers? We are a military family I said. My brother sends care packages and donates for military families ALL THE TIME. I don't do a very good job at either of those. This is anabolic MINDS. Have you ever thought YOU may be the problem? Have you ever wanted to change something about you? I want to be bigger, stronger, leaner. I also want to be more intelligent. It's why I'm here. Why are you here?

I don't want whatever church you go to to not pay taxes and they don't. They are tax exempt. I believe they are breeding hate at your church and I don't think they should be tax exempt hate breeding grounds. Same thing as Westboro Baptist Church. We fund a lot of things I disagree with, deal with it. Are you ok with females getting pensions? How about blacks? At some point that wasn't ok either.

Society changed. It's changing again. It's changing for the better. It's a crying shame you can't see that. Most unintelligent people STRUGGLE to recognize that. You don't have to accept it. They just want the same opportunities. You don't want to see two guys kiss change the ****ing channel dumbass. You don't want to see two gay guys get married don't go to the wedding of them. How many people would argue blacks should still be slaves? How many argue women shouldn't be allowed to hold power positions? At one point these were normal for a society. Things change. We PROGRESS. Only the most unintelligent backwater dumbasses are still against the things I mentioned. Surely you wouldn't want to be associated with them. I'm a rural guy from a rural area living in a rural area. I certainly am not racist or sexist. I'm not homophobic either. Get with the times. This ain't the 1914, it's 2014.

IT DOESN'T EFFECT YOUR LIFE. AT ALL. PERIOD FLAT. You just want to pretend it does so you can hate someone based on how they were biologically born to be. Whatever happened to respect for your fellow humans?
Click to expand...

you just don't get it.. we are not talking about the character of the person, we are talking about the lifestyle they are trying to force on the people as natural and acceptable. Just because a pedophile child molester goes into a burning building and recues a child does not mean society should now accept his perversion & sickness as being ok.. just because the Romans and Greeks said it was okay for men to have young boy lovers does not mean it is okay to do it like, do you support Sandusky's actions at PennState? I dont doubt there are many homosexuals who are "good" people but that doesnt mean society should accept their perverted and sick form of sexual preferences as a normal lifestyle. Why dont you get that it is a sickness? There is something wrong with their dna or brain chemistry that needs to be fixed, not accepted as normal by society.. there are medical codes for homosexuality, it is considered an abnormal condition in the medical & health community and rightly so.. Society has figured this out a long time ago so quit trying to gift wrap a condition that needs to be treated as a disease instead of promoted as an alternative lifestyle.

I do not belong to a church and as you should know from my other posts I do not subscribe to any specific religious dogma, however since I plead ignorance when it comes to understanding what the "Supreme Being or other dieties may want, I support the right of religious institutions and religious beliefs to follow their ancient writings until proven to be completly fraudulent, which isnt the case yet. Obviously if we are discussing Islam, Christianity & Judaism then we know form their writings that homosexuality is not an acceptable practice and should be smited from the land, period. There is no arguing that it says this or that because it says one thing, homosexuals should be put to death. Obviously this country does not allow that so you have to make choice between religious law and state law, but either way the act of homosexuality was never legal in either code. As mentioned earlier homosexual sodomy was a crime in every state of the union (along with heterosexual oral & anal sodomy), just as is sex between older & younger people (age of consent laws).

I dont think you will ever "get it" because like many supporting your arguments you either have someone you know who is gay or you try and justify that since they are good people and do good thing we should just pervert societies way of thinking to look the other way or gift wrap it and try and feed it back to us as a perfectly normal "alternative" lifestyle. As for TV, it has gotten to the point where they have to inject that crap in just about every damn show, even the prime time series shows that never had that crap before they have to slip some scene to try and normalize it and try to get people to slowly accept it, same tactic as the frog in the pan of boiling water.
 
Edit: Realized it's a fruitless discussion.
 
One of Buffalo's greatest bands, Towpath:
[video=youtube;snLLgtqz4nI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snLLgtqz4nI[/video]

Death metal, black metal, and jazz
 
abs322 said:
you just don't get it.. we are not talking about the character of the person, we are talking about the lifestyle they are trying to force on the people as natural and acceptable. Just because a pedophile child molester goes into a burning building and recues a child does not mean society should now accept his perversion & sickness as being ok.. just because the Romans and Greeks said it was okay for men to have young boy lovers does not mean it is okay to do it like, do you support Sandusky's actions at PennState? I dont doubt there are many homosexuals who are "good" people but that doesnt mean society should accept their perverted and sick form of sexual preferences as a normal lifestyle. Why dont you get that it is a sickness? There is something wrong with their dna or brain chemistry that needs to be fixed, not accepted as normal by society.. there are medical codes for homosexuality, it is considered an abnormal condition in the medical & health community and rightly so.. Society has figured this out a long time ago so quit trying to gift wrap a condition that needs to be treated as a disease instead of promoted as an alternative lifestyle.

I do not belong to a church and as you should know from my other posts I do not subscribe to any specific religious dogma, however since I plead ignorance when it comes to understanding what the "Supreme Being or other dieties may want, I support the right of religious institutions and religious beliefs to follow their ancient writings until proven to be completly fraudulent, which isnt the case yet. Obviously if we are discussing Islam, Christianity & Judaism then we know form their writings that homosexuality is not an acceptable practice and should be smited from the land, period. There is no arguing that it says this or that because it says one thing, homosexuals should be put to death. Obviously this country does not allow that so you have to make choice between religious law and state law, but either way the act of homosexuality was never legal in either code. As mentioned earlier homosexual sodomy was a crime in every state of the union (along with heterosexual oral & anal sodomy), just as is sex between older & younger people (age of consent laws).

I dont think you will ever "get it" because like many supporting your arguments you either have someone you know who is gay or you try and justify that since they are good people and do good thing we should just pervert societies way of thinking to look the other way or gift wrap it and try and feed it back to us as a perfectly normal "alternative" lifestyle. As for TV, it has gotten to the point where they have to inject that crap in just about every damn show, even the prime time series shows that never had that crap before they have to slip some scene to try and normalize it and try to get people to slowly accept it, same tactic as the frog in the pan of boiling water.
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It's NOT a sickness just because you say it is. It USED to be a crime to marry someone of a different race. Why are you obsessed with how society USED to view it? Society used to accept black people in chains. It doesn't anymore. Society evolves over time. You can call it a sickness all you want it's just no one else is. Homosexuals are not going to the doctor and doctors giving them a pill to try and get that better. Now those kinds of thoughts used to exist in the medical community, but that is because of a lack of education. That changed. Society changed. It's not viewed as a mental illness anymore. It was NEVER an actual mental illness, people just didn't understand it. Remember DOCTORS USED TO SMOKE. We have all sorts of stuff as wrong.

You keep wanting to view it as if society hasn't changed. Society HAS changed. It IS becoming accepted. It will BE more so in the future. You don't have to accept that or be happy about it, but you KNOW I'm not wrong. You KNOW you're in the minority and you know the people who feel like you are rapidly either dying or changing their mind. Please look at public opinion polls on gay marriage over time. Now the MAJORITY of people support it. If you look at age groups it's basically only 50's and ups that are against it. Now I don't know how old you are nor do I care, but as those people continue to die it will be more and more and more and more accepted.

Something isn't a sickness just because you say it is. You may wish it, but it just isn't. It's not considered that anymore, how out of touch with the medical community are you? It HASN'T been that way for a while. How old are you and where were you when all this changed? How are you not aware of all this stuff. I'm not making fun of you, I'm honestly asking why you believe so many things that are DEMONSTRABLY untrue. I believe it is a lack of education you are greatly suffering from. You don't seem to have any honest idea about what we are talking about. You keep saying things like medical community and sickness that no one actually thinks anymore.

I don't think you will ever "get it" because not only do you not want to change your opinion, you believe so many things that are untrue about it that you can't even rationally think about it. Look at you with the images man...you weren't even mature enough to go through this thread without resorting to juvenile tactics. If you're older and confused it's ok I guess, but your lack of maturity and education on the subject is frankly startling. It's one thing to be against something because you don't agree with it, it's another thing to believe so many fairy tales about something. You literally believe things that we can PROVE are untrue. This isn't a faith based thing...we can PROVE them as untrue.

Wow. I mean you realize it has been over 40 (****ing forty) years since the APA voted to remove it from a mental illness? The medical community hasn't treated it as a disease in over 40 years. I'm 30 dude. It hasn't been treated as an illness IN MY LIFETIME.

How do you think the stuff you do? How are you THIS uneducated on a subject you seem to care so much about?
 
I didn't mean it as a burn. I'm literally blown away. How is it possible for someone to have such a limited clue about something they care about? It'd be like if an experienced lifter thought DB curls developed the left calf. I mean **** clearly this dude has thought about gays some. And he thinks something that hasn't been true since Richard Nixon was President.

Unbelievable. What a waste of our time to attempt to talk to someone THAT out of touch with reality. This thread is all sorts of suck.
 
ahh why do i even bother??

2012 ICD-9-CM Diagnosis Code 302.52

Trans-sexualism with homosexual history
•Short description: Trans-sexual, homosexual.
•ICD-9-CM 302.52 is a billable medical code that can be used to specify a diagnosis on a reimbursement claim.
•You are viewing the 2012 version of ICD-9-CM 302.52.
•More recent version(s) of ICD-9-CM 302.52: 2013 2014.


2014 ICD-10-CM Diagnosis Code Z72.52

High risk homosexual behavior

•Z72.52 is a specific ICD-10-CM diagnosis code that can be used to specify a diagnosis.
•ICD-9-CM will be replaced by ICD-10-CM beginning October 1, 2014, therefore, Z72.52 and all other ICD-10-CM diagnosis codes should only be used for training or planning purposes until then.

ICD-10-CM Z72.52 is part of Diagnostic Related Group (MS-DRG v30.0):•951 Other factors influencing health status

40 years ago eh??? try now

Invalid Link Removed
 
God you are barely worth replying to but last try.

Wow, a medical code exists for high risk heterosexual behavior as well.

Yes a medical code exists for your straight pride image as well you moron. Surely you knew that? If heterosexual sex and blowjobs are dangerous and homosexual sex now what are you going to do abs? Are you allowed to masturbate? Or are you scared of that as well?

Good god. Let this thread die seriously you are embarrassing yourself every time you try and post.

I REALLY don't have time to teach you all the things you don't know. You're making me tired abs. If you need me to continue to teach you you're going to have to pay me. Luckily for you the internet has a lot of free education things. Maybe with a little bit of education you won't believe so many stupid things? Who knows?

It's amazing what you might achieve if you set your mind to being less of an idiot. I mean that in the best possible way. Please get more educated this planet has enough mouth breathing morons already.
 
Geoforce said:
Why is it about winning and losing? I mean that seems like such an odd way to look at a difference of opinion. Society IS CHANGING. It changes all the time. It has throughout history. I wasn't bragging saying people who feel like me are growing in number therefore I am right. I simply said opinions on gays are changing and changing at a rapid pace.

It WILL be the way of the future whether or not abs accepts it. At one point black people and white people in the same school was socially unacceptable and that changed is all I was saying. I don't think my opinion is more valid because society is going to agree with me more in the future. That wasn't my point.

If you think I'm going to burn in hell for loving and supproting my gay brother then that is your right. If your brother was gay would you stop loving him? How incredibly horrible for gay people to not be supported by their own FAMILIES. I won't have any part of that...I'm a man and men love their families and accept them.
Click to expand...

just because Christians don't support a homosexual life style doesn't mean we can't / won't love them. That's like saying I'm not going to discipline my child because I love them. It is possible to not support someone's choice yet love them as Christ does.
 
fightbackhxc said:
just because Christians don't support a homosexual life style doesn't mean we can't / won't love them. That's like saying I'm not going to discipline my child because I love them. It is possible to not support someone's choice yet love them as Christ does.
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This is probably the best post I've seen in this entire thread...
 
If you're gonna be gay fine. Don't expect any special exceptions and don't parade it. Keep it to yourself. Its not normal and not right.

Good ol' Liberalism. Let's make the most immoral moral.
 
fightbackhxc said:
just because Christians don't support a homosexual life style doesn't mean we can't / won't love them. That's like saying I'm not going to discipline my child because I love them. It is possible to not support someone's choice yet love them as Christ does.
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Ladies and Gentlmen, We have a Christian that's not a bigot. You don't have support the gay community or any other community. You just have to accept their right to be who they are just like they must accept your rights to be who you are. This thread hasn't devolved to a point we are trying to get everyone to join the lgta. It's at a point where supporters of human rights just what the admittance that people have as much right ( under the law of America, not your religious text) to be gay as you do to be Christian or whatever other social description you want to be. We don't have to support every choice another person makes, just their right to make it. [ please don't take this post out if context. I mean choices that don't get other people hurt]
 
fightbackhxc said:
just because Christians don't support a homosexual life style doesn't mean we can't / won't love them. That's like saying I'm not going to discipline my child because I love them. It is possible to not support someone's choice yet love them as Christ does.
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I didn't say anything about Christians in the post you mentioned. I have no problem with Christianity. And as practiced by you it is awesome for the world. As practiced by abs or Westboro Baptist Church it is one of the worst things in the world.

As a Christian I believe you should stand up more when other people who "claim" they are the same religion as you make comments like abs does.

I'm not anti-Christian at all, even as a non-believer. I'm anti-judgmental prick Christian like Westboro or abs. No one could find any fault in what you said my friend.

I've never said you have to support the lifestyle. I've never said it can't bother you. You can't tell me that a whole lot of wannabe Christians in this thread love gay people though. Abs doesn't love gay people, he hates them. That much is obvious. If I'm a non believer and don't hate you and you're a believer and don't hate me then why are so many people in here struggling with that?

It's actually super easy. Love everybody. I think even that Christ fellow said something about that right?
 
Geoforce said:
I didn't say anything about Christians in the post you mentioned. I have no problem with Christianity. And as practiced by you it is awesome for the world. As practiced by abs or Westboro Baptist Church it is one of the worst things in the world.

As a Christian I believe you should stand up more when other people who "claim" they are the same religion as you make comments like abs does.

I'm not anti-Christian at all, even as a non-believer. I'm anti-judgmental prick Christian like Westboro or abs. No one could find any fault in what you said my friend.

I've never said you have to support the lifestyle. I've never said it can't bother you. You can't tell me that a whole lot of wannabe Christians in this thread love gay people though. Abs doesn't love gay people, he hates them. That much is obvious. If I'm a non believer and don't hate you and you're a believer and don't hate me then why are so many people in here struggling with that?

It's actually super easy. Love everybody. I think even that Christ fellow said something about that right?
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Abs and westboro are outliers. I know very few churches like that. As for homosexuality and christains give us some time the homosexuality scene just became huge in a short period of time. Christian or not It's going to take some time to react to it and figure out How to best represent Christ to people who generally dislike the messages of christ.
 
fightbackhxc said:
Abs and westboro are outliers. I know very few churches like that. As for homosexuality and christains give us some time the homosexuality scene just became huge in a short period of time. Christian or not It's going to take some time to react to it and figure out How to best represent Christ to people who generally dislike the messages of christ.
Click to expand...

You're right they are and it's a breath of fresh air to talk to people like you. If I was a Christian I would be really upset at these people who give you such a bad name. I know you're as annoyed by them as I am, maybe even more so because no only do you disagree with them like I do, but they make you look worse by claiming they represent you.

This thread would not be so long if people thought like you do because believer or non believer nothing is controversial about what you posted. We ALL agree with that. I'm not a religious guy and I probably never will be again, but as practiced by you it is NOT a bad thing. As practiced by Westboro or abs or other people who use it to justify hate it is one of the worst things ever. And I can't imagine being in your shoes because it has to be exhausting trying to defend what you believe from people who claim they believe the same thing. You don't think like abs. You don't think like Fred Phelps. You don't hate people who are different from you even if you may not agree with what they do. People like that HATE my brother. They've never met him. They have no idea about him. They know one thing about him and so they hate him. Racism, sexism, it all works the same way.

I have wanted this thread to die for a long time, but I can't help but correct people like abs who believe things that we can prove are untrue. I STILL want this thread to die big time. It shouldn't exist. People shouldn't be so caught up in crap like this. And just so you know I'm not against the message of Christ. I'm against people who distort what I read when I read the Bible and use it as a tool to hate others. I would feel more positively about Christianity if people like you represented what it mean to be a Christian better.

I know it's not your fault, but Phil, the media, abs, Westboro, etc they make the news. People with your views don't. That's not your fault. When I have said certain things in this thread I HOPE it's obvious I'm not talking about people like you. You don't hate my brother whom you've never met. It's just some people in this thread do. And all they needed to hear to know they hated him was that he was gay. When I shared that some people AUTOMATICALLY despised him.

Think how unfair that is? That's what I'm trying to change in this thread. He's an absolutely amazing person. He is REALLY positive for the world. If more people were like him (not gay) in terms of helping, volunteering, knowledge, drive, etc. this world would be better. And yet someone with so many positive qualities is hated by certain people simply because he can't help that he is not attracted to women. He TRIED to be attracted to them. He DATED women.

I mean how horrific is it that we can say that about someone in this world?
 
fightbackhxc said:
Abs and westboro are outliers. I know very few churches like that. As for homosexuality and christains give us some time the homosexuality scene just became huge in a short period of time. Christian or not It's going to take some time to react to it and figure out How to best represent Christ to people who generally dislike the messages of christ.
Click to expand...

I agree with about everything you've said thus far.
 
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Geoforce said:
You're right they are and it's a breath of fresh air to talk to people like you. If I was a Christian I would be really upset at these people who give you such a bad name. I know you're as annoyed by them as I am, maybe even more so because no only do you disagree with them like I do, but they make you look worse by claiming they represent you.

This thread would not be so long if people thought like you do because believer or non believer nothing is controversial about what you posted. We ALL agree with that. I'm not a religious guy and I probably never will be again, but as practiced by you it is NOT a bad thing. As practiced by Westboro or abs or other people who use it to justify hate it is one of the worst things ever. And I can't imagine being in your shoes because it has to be exhausting trying to defend what you believe from people who claim they believe the same thing. You don't think like abs. You don't think like Fred Phelps. You don't hate people who are different from you even if you may not agree with what they do. People like that HATE my brother. They've never met him. They have no idea about him. They know one thing about him and so they hate him. Racism, sexism, it all works the same way.

I have wanted this thread to die for a long time, but I can't help but correct people like abs who believe things that we can prove are untrue. I STILL want this thread to die big time. It shouldn't exist. People shouldn't be so caught up in crap like this. And just so you know I'm not against the message of Christ. I'm against people who distort what I read when I read the Bible and use it as a tool to hate others. I would feel more positively about Christianity if people like you represented what it mean to be a Christian better.

I know it's not your fault, but Phil, the media, abs, Westboro, etc they make the news. People with your views don't. That's not your fault. When I have said certain things in this thread I HOPE it's obvious I'm not talking about people like you. You don't hate my brother whom you've never met. It's just some people in this thread do. And all they needed to hear to know they hated him was that he was gay. When I shared that some people AUTOMATICALLY despised him.

Think how unfair that is? That's what I'm trying to change in this thread. He's an absolutely amazing person. He is REALLY positive for the world. If more people were like him (not gay) in terms of helping, volunteering, knowledge, drive, etc. this world would be better. And yet someone with so many positive qualities is hated by certain people simply because he can't help that he is not attracted to women. He TRIED to be attracted to them. He DATED women.

I mean how horrific is it that we can say that about someone in this world?
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Well I get where you are coming from and I don't agree w the hate. I do however despise the cultural image of Christians and How we are expected to be perfect. Christ didn't come to save the perfect but the absolute broken. We all make mistakes and do horrible things, we just need to pray for those who persecute and give them the same grace that was extended to us through the lord Jesus Christ.
 
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fightbackhxc said:
Well I get where you are coming from and I don't agree w the hate. I do however despise the cultural image of Christians and How we are expected to be perfect. Christ didn't come to save the perfect but the absolute broken. We all make mistakes and do horrible things, we just need to pray for those who persecute and give them the same grace that was extended to us through the lord Jesus Christ.
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I don't expect perfection. I expect respect. I expect love. Isn't that the point of the faith?
 
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Piston Honda said:
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If this is surprising to anyone it shouldn't be. All reality TV is largely scripted and created based around fake personas. It always has been. That's why I thought it was so weird for bigT to claim Phil was a champion of the working class. No reality TV star multi-millionare speaks for working stiffs.
 
Geoforce said:
I don't expect perfection. I expect respect. I expect love. Isn't that the point of the faith?
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The point of the faith is to give God worship and by doing so it transforms your mind and actions to become more like his.
 
fightbackhxc said:
The point of the faith is to give God worship and by doing so it transforms your mind and actions to become more like his.
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And in being more like his don't you assume that means love? I mean don't you think God loves my brother? I don't really think he exists, but if he is all knowing and all powerful and all good as most Christians say then don't you think he loves gay people? And if he doesn't what is the point of loving him? I assume a believer thinks he created the world and therefore created the people in it.
 
Geoforce said:
And in being more like his don't you assume that means love? I mean don't you think God loves my brother? I don't really think he exists, but if he is all knowing and all powerful and all good as most Christians say then don't you think he loves gay people? And if he doesn't what is the point of loving him? I assume a believer thinks he created the world and therefore created the people in it.
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Yes, he does love your brother. Just like anyone else that truly serves GOD in accordance to his word should also still love your brother.
 
Geoforce said:
If this is surprising to anyone it shouldn't be. All reality TV is largely scripted and created based around fake personas. It always has been. That's why I thought it was so weird for bigT to claim Phil was a champion of the working class. No reality TV star multi-millionare speaks for working stiffs.
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lol....i followed that link to some page called OUT, it's a gay page. talk about biased, i just hope i don't start getting gay ads showing up now, lol....


phil is a real person, he has money but so did jed clampitt....just like jed he is a family man who has faith, and a code he lives by. duck dynasty reminds me a lot of beverly hillbillies, both families live life according to their belief in what is right, and both have a code they try to live by.

i am ready for the criticism of comparing phil to jed clampitt, but like piston honda i no longer care what some else might think, i am very comfortable in my skin, and here lately have been sleeping very well at night.

as to being born gay...i was once told that i was born an alcoholic due to genetic code and plus the fact that alcoholism runs in my family. i could have accepted this and kept on doing what i did for many years, keep on drinking. but i knew that drinking [for me anyways] was wrong behavour, so all my life i strived to change what came so natural to me, drinking. believe me, drinking is what i was wired to do, even with so many bad events in my life i kept on drinking. i never stopped trying to change this behavour, and finally after so many failed attempts i finally managed to obtain sobriety. today my wife tells me i have 16 years of sobriety, i try not to dwell on it but keep it one day at a time and hopefully by the grace of GOD i will make it one more day without drinking.....btw-i started drinking at age 13 and am now 55....i realize now that there is no scientific reason for me being an alcoholic, but it is now an acceptable reason for being on dissability...just because the government/medical profession and society gives alcoholism an excuse does not change the fact that i knew/know it was a behavour i needed to change...but thats just me!!!!
 
thebigt said:
lol....i followed that link to some page called OUT, it's a gay page. talk about biased, i just hope i don't start getting gay ads showing up now, lol....


phil is a real person, he has money but so did jed clampitt....just like jed he is a family man who has faith, and a code he lives by. duck dynasty reminds me a lot of beverly hillbillies, both families live life according to their belief in what is right, and both have a code they try to live by.

i am ready for the criticism of comparing phil to jed clampitt, but like piston honda i no longer care what some else might think, i am very comfortable in my skin, and here lately have been sleeping very well at night.

as to being born gay...i was once told that i was born an alcoholic due to genetic code and plus the fact that alcoholism runs in my family. i could have accepted this and kept on doing what i did for many years, keep on drinking. but i knew that drinking [for me anyways] was wrong behavour, so all my life i strived to change what came so natural to me, drinking. believe me, drinking is what i was wired to do, even with so many bad events in my life i kept on drinking. i never stopped trying to change this behavour, and finally after so many failed attempts i finally managed to obtain sobriety. today my wife tells me i have 16 years of sobriety, i try not to dwell on it but keep it one day at a time and hopefully by the grace of GOD i will make it one more day without drinking.....btw-i started drinking at age 13 and am now 55....i realize now that there is no scientific reason for me being an alcoholic, but it is now an acceptable reason for being on dissability...just because the government/medical profession and society gives alcoholism an excuse does not change the fact that i knew/know it was a behavour i needed to change...but thats just me!!!!
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I don't know why you would even attempt to compare alcoholism to homosexuality. Have you ever tried to stop liking girls and start liking boys? I'm ONLY attracted to girls. I'm not turned on by guys. I don't have to think or act or do anything about that. I was setup (you would say by god right, didn't he create man?) to be in love with women.

Now my brother (who has the exact same parents) was not setup that way. He TRIED to be attracted to women. He WANTED to be. You think people WANT to be gay? Why would ANYONE think that? Look at how gay people are treated in this thread by a lot of people. Every gay person at some point in their life has WISHED they were straight. It's WAY more acceptable to be straight. He was BORN gay. He dated women. He wasn't attracted to them. Now I have 2 brother and 2 sisters. 5 of us total. My parents are straight. Everyone else in my family is straight. So 6 out of 7 people are straight with similar genes.

If you think homosexuality is like alcoholism I don't know what to tell you. We may as well give up on discussing things then as its a waste of time like trying to tell abs that homosexuality hasn't been a disease since Nixon was President.

If you think it's easy why don't you stop liking girls RIGHT now and start liking boys? I cannot do that no matter how hard I try. I can QUIT drinking. I QUIT chewing tobacco. Don't compare physical addictions to sexuality. I mean you can if you want, but wow. You're smarter than that bigT. And if you think they are the same try to start liking the opposite sex right now. Can't do it can you? Neither can gay people. You can change so much about you. You can lose weight, gain weight, do heroin, stop heroin, a million things. You did not CHOOSE to be sexually attracted to women and you CAN'T stop and start being attracted to the opposite sex. If you can't do it why do you think gay people should be able to? Isn't that a bit insane?

I'll throw this out there. I bet no one in American history has WANTED to be gay. Now people eventually accept and embrace that they are and some people die gay because they are too scared to tell the world they are. Why would ANYONE choose to be gay if they had the choice? No one would. Just put it in your head. You can be straight and no one will give a **** about who you love. Or you can be gay and a ton of people will make awful judgments about you, despise you, be disgusted by you, and some people think you will be tortured eternally in a lake of fire. How can anyone think people are PICKING gay? No one picks gay. Some accept it and embrace that it is what they are and they want people to accept that about them. No one is born wanting it though. Seriously, NO ONE. You think my brother grew up WANTING to be gay? Why the **** did he date girls when he already knew he was gay? He was TRYING not to be. He is intelligent and KNEW his life would be more difficult if he was gay.

I'm straight. My life is WAY easier than my brothers in a lot of ways simply because I'm not gay. All I had to do was be straight (which I can't help anyways, I AM straight) and automatically no one damned me to hell, no one despised me, no one was grossed out when I kissed someone, etc. Straight is easy. Straight isn't difficult.

This thread annoys me on a lot of different levels, but if I've had even one person who dislikes gay people start to think critically about why it's been worth it. Changing society is a tough process.
 
This may be a stupid question but since this thread has gotten really nasty at times does this mean we will not help and support each other for AAS and body building ? I hope not.
I started a thread a couple of days ago to give free tax advice to any who have a question. So far no one has taken me up on it.
Its my way of saying thank u. I know accounting and taxes better than AAS and as many of u know I have been many stupid mistakes.
In addition, since my divorce 5 years ago I have been a back slidden Christian and a bad example and as JimBuick said: "...a hypocritical piece of ****." Thank God Jesus died for hypocritical pieces of **** like me. That statement convicted me and I have been back on the road to being a better Christian. Thank u all for all the help you guys have given this retarted Italian from Brooklyn. :)
 
JoeBrooklyn said:
This may be a stupid question but since this thread has gotten really nasty at times does this mean we will not help and support each other for AAS and body building ? I hope not.
I started a thread a couple of days ago to give free tax advice to any who have a question. So far no one has taken me up on it.
Its my way of saying thank u. I know accounting and taxes better than AAS and as many of u know I have been many stupid mistakes.
In addition, since my divorce 5 years ago I have been a back slidden Christian and a bad example and as JimBuick said: "...a hypocritical piece of ****." Thank God Jesus died for hypocritical pieces of **** like me. That statement convicted me and I have been back on the road to being a better Christian. Thank u all for all the help you guys have given this retarted Italian from Brooklyn. :)
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Of course not. What people say in this thread and what they say in others is irrelevant at least to me. I've tried to be as respectful as possible to those who deserve respect. bigT deserves respect, abs doesn't. I base that off how people post and what they say in terms of respect for discussion.

I disagree a lot with people on here politically or socially, but I would give anyone on this thread supplement advice or listen to supplement advice from them. This is hardly the first thread forum members have had to get a bit chippy with one another and it won't be the last Joe. Don't even worry about it. I would help everyone in here achieve fitness goals as best as I can and I'd listen to fitness advice from anyone in here if it made logical sense.
 
Geoforce said:
Of course not. What people say in this thread and what they say in others is irrelevant at least to me. I've tried to be as respectful as possible to those who deserve respect. bigT deserves respect, abs doesn't. I base that off how people post and what they say in terms of respect for discussion.

I disagree a lot with people on here politically or socially, but I would give anyone on this thread supplement advice or listen to supplement advice from them. This is hardly the first thread forum members have had to get a bit chippy with one another and it won't be the last Joe. Don't even worry about it. I would help everyone in here achieve fitness goals as best as I can and I'd listen to fitness advice from anyone in here if it made logical sense.
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And that, folks, is why 1: I love this board and 2: This isn't bb.com and never will be
 
JoeBrooklyn said:
In addition, since my divorce 5 years ago I have been a back slidden Christian and a bad example and as JimBuick said: "...a hypocritical piece of ****." Thank God Jesus died for hypocritical pieces of **** like me. That statement convicted me and I have been back on the road to being a better Christian. Thank u all for all the help you guys have given this retarted Italian from Brooklyn. :)
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[video=youtube;XZNEaTWxG_o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZNEaTWxG_o[/video]
 
Geoforce said:
I don't know why you would even attempt to compare alcoholism to homosexuality. Have you ever tried to stop liking girls and start liking boys? I'm ONLY attracted to girls. I'm not turned on by guys. I don't have to think or act or do anything about that. I was setup (you would say by god right, didn't he create man?) to be in love with women.

Now my brother (who has the exact same parents) was not setup that way. He TRIED to be attracted to women. He WANTED to be. You think people WANT to be gay? Why would ANYONE think that? Look at how gay people are treated in this thread by a lot of people. Every gay person at some point in their life has WISHED they were straight. It's WAY more acceptable to be straight. He was BORN gay. He dated women. He wasn't attracted to them. Now I have 2 brother and 2 sisters. 5 of us total. My parents are straight. Everyone else in my family is straight. So 6 out of 7 people are straight with similar genes.

If you think homosexuality is like alcoholism I don't know what to tell you. We may as well give up on discussing things then as its a waste of time like trying to tell abs that homosexuality hasn't been a disease since Nixon was President.

If you think it's easy why don't you stop liking girls RIGHT now and start liking boys? I cannot do that no matter how hard I try. I can QUIT drinking. I QUIT chewing tobacco. Don't compare physical addictions to sexuality. I mean you can if you want, but wow. You're smarter than that bigT. And if you think they are the same try to start liking the opposite sex right now. Can't do it can you? Neither can gay people. You can change so much about you. You can lose weight, gain weight, do heroin, stop heroin, a million things. You did not CHOOSE to be sexually attracted to women and you CAN'T stop and start being attracted to the opposite sex. If you can't do it why do you think gay people should be able to? Isn't that a bit insane?

This thread annoys me on a lot of different levels, but if I've had even one person who dislikes gay people start to think critically about why it's been worth it. Changing society is a tough process.
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i can be an alcoholic and choose not to drink. it is my choice. thinking about drinking isn't a choice, but acting on it is!!!




i was once told we always have a choice....they may not be good choices, but still choices.


i was also once told that just because everyone is doing it doesn't make it right.....i see a lot of behavour that society accepts today that would have been considered bad behavour a generation ago...because society accepts something does that make it right?

morals and values and standards were slowly disappearing, but in the last few years society seems to be in a rush to away with the morals, values and standards of our forefathers which made this country free so that we could have this very debate. i can think of many countries in which this exchange of opinions would be forbidden, even illegal. society shouldn't be so eager to call our forefathers bigots and racists, it is those same morals and values and standards that made this country free enough for todays society to voice it's distaste for those very same morals and standards and values. bigots and racists they may have been, but just think how lucky we were to have had them as OUR bigots and racists....i don't care what race, gender, religion or sexual persuasion i think you have more freedom here than anywhere else in the entire world thanks to those who society would call racists and bigots....
 
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