Humalog 1st Time....Slin Shake?

ryanbodybuilder

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I will be staring Humalog, after 1.5 years of researching..I will only be using
Post Workout starting at 5iu and working my way up to about 15iu max....I have my
Slin Shake somewhat organized......what do you think?

50g Whey in water
10g dextrose
25g malto
30g half of a wheat bagel

hour later
6 cooked egg whites, or chicken breast ect.
 

ryanbodybuilder

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anybody, anybody? also should I use this subq or IM...humalog is the fastest acting so maybe I should use it subq?
 

ryanbodybuilder

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I am thinking more along the lines of a slin shake like:

50g whey in water
10g dextrose
50g malto

whatdya think?
 

glenihan

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don't know much about slin as i have no desire to use it .. but from what i know your pwo shake sounds fine .. although you might want to do more research about the 1 hour meal .. i think you'll need some carbs in there .. i'm not sure though
 

Poobah

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Malto is classified as a Complex carb.. but in reality it absorbs real quick. I still say you need some slow absorbing carbs with your meal.. whether its oatmeal or whole grain bagel. With the slower absorbing carbs, I don't think you need carbs with your 1 hour meal.. I never needed it from a hypo point of view, myself anyway...

Your first meal looks much better to me.
 
CROWLER

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YIKES


Yes buddy I have some advice LESS slin to start PLEASE>


Try just a cc or 2 and see how it goes from there.

Each person reacts differently. I have used slow acting and even after using it for weeks and eating alot of carbs after the injection (sub q) one day I was VERY suprised.

I found myself sweating, light headed and dizzy in the middle of a Borders Book store buying carbs and slamming them down. The clerk probably thought I was crazy.


BTW all slin did for me was make me fat.

It seems the thinking for SOME people is

slin by itself does nothing.

Slin with AS does almost nothing.

Slin with GH and AS is GREAT.



CROWLER
 
jonny21

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:thumbsup:
YIKES


Yes buddy I have some advice LESS slin to start PLEASE>


Try just a cc or 2 and see how it goes from there.

Each person reacts differently.
Take heed. I posted in another insulin thread regarding this same issue. Humalog(Lispro) is rapid/short-acting(<15 min) insulin with a peak of ~30-90 min. and a relatively short duration(~3-5 hrs). Go slow since you have endogenous insulin also being secreted. Since it is your first time and there is going to be an endogenous response I would play it safe and only do 1 unit per 20-30 grams of CHO. An insulin dependant diabetic would typically use 1 unit for ~10-15 grams of CHO, and often that is with background or basal insulin. I hour meal should also have CHO. Keep glucose tabs close if available.

anybody, anybody? also should I use this subq or IM...humalog is the fastest acting so maybe I should use it subq?
subq
 
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123 go

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60 g pwo?
isnt it your bw x .5 for high gi carbs pwo?
 

ryanbodybuilder

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a cc or 2? are you crazy isnt that like 200iu or something? I am only starting out with 5iu and working my way up to 10iu....I mispoke in the first message...I am also adding in 10g glutamine and 10g creatine to each slin shake and only doing them postworkout which is 4 times a week



YIKES


Yes buddy I have some advice LESS slin to start PLEASE>


Try just a cc or 2 and see how it goes from there.

Each person reacts differently. I have used slow acting and even after using it for weeks and eating alot of carbs after the injection (sub q) one day I was VERY suprised.

I found myself sweating, light headed and dizzy in the middle of a Borders Book store buying carbs and slamming them down. The clerk probably thought I was crazy.


BTW all slin did for me was make me fat.

It seems the thinking for SOME people is

slin by itself does nothing.

Slin with AS does almost nothing.

Slin with GH and AS is GREAT.



CROWLER
 
jonny21

jonny21

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a cc or 2? are you crazy isnt that like 200iu or something? I am only starting out with 5iu and working my way up to 10iu....I mispoke in the first message...I am also adding in 10g glutamine and 10g creatine to each slin shake and only doing them postworkout which is 4 times a week
I think he meant 1 or 2iu's, at least that's how I interpreted it. Yes it is typically 100iu per ml. The amount of insulin must be based on carbohydrate intake not on how much you want to work up to. With 5 units you would probably need ~100-150g of carbohydrates to play it safe. Do you have a glucometer? If so, do a postprandial 2-3 hours after and see where your BS's are. Try that a few times until you get a good idea of the insulin:carb ratio that works well for you. That'd be the safest and probably most efficient way.
 

glenihan

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60 g pwo?
isnt it your bw x .5 for high gi carbs pwo?
do a search my friend .. if you are talking about PWO when NOT using insulin high gi carbs are inferior to low gi carbs (which has been covered ad nauseum on this board) .. and when talking slin it should be 10g carbs (mix of hi and low) for every 1iu of slin or until you know how you body reacts
 

Poobah

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I went back and checked my notes... my second slin meal contained a combination of egg whites (Raw), scoop whey, and a quarter cup of oats.. (tasted like ass).. but the topic is to important to screw up. Sorry about that.

You don't need alot of carbs though.. but yea definate have some complex one with your second meal.
 
BOHICA

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Screw all this insulin crap, not worth it with all the extra crap you have to watch out for. :(








At least until the inhaler version comes out!! :)
 

glenihan

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i completely agree with Bo ... most find they only get fat from it unless combined with BOTH aas and gh

just not worth trouble IMO

but ryan's a big boy and a smart guy i have faith he won't **** it up .. just not worth it IMO especially since i can get plenty fat on my own if i want ;)
 

Poobah

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I'll be happy to publicly admit I was a fool for using while cutting.. (I was able to mind you), but I'm sure I would of did better from a fat loss perspective without.. (perhaps with a pinch less muscles at the end). Regardless I think it was a mistake, especially while cutting.. (but Damn do you feel **** happening in combo with igf and aas).

however, when I'm done cutting.. (and I will be some day damn you.. :p), I'll definately consider it again in combonation with igf/hgh/aas. (With a top notch diet of course.) Might be years off yet though.
 

ryanbodybuilder

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yea i will only be using it during bulking cycles with aas.....and I dont get fat easy at all.....thanks for all the comments guys..I dont plan on using it for well over 10 weeks now....but I have it on cool in my fridge!
 

123 go

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ifbb pros suggest 10g of simple carbs per iu

IFBBPRO: WELL I SUGGEST THAT FOR OPTIMAL RESULTS, YOU USE HUMALOG AT 10-15IU'S IMMEDIATELY AFTER TRAINING BECAUSE THAT IS WHEN YOU BODY IS MOST DEPLETED OF GLYCOGEN STORES AND IS PRIMED TO OVERCOMPENSATE FOR THE INFLUX OF NUTRIENTS. NOW HUMALOG HITS IN 5-15MINUTES SO YOU MUST IMMEDIATELY INGEST 10 GRAMS OF SIMPLE CARBS PER EVERY I.U. OF INSULIN YOU USE (IN THIS CASE BETWEEN 100-150 GRAMS) I WOULD ALSO TAKE IN ADDITIONAL NUTRIENTS THAT HELP CONTRIBUTE TO MUSCLE GROWTH SUCH AS AMINO ACIDS OR 50 GRAMS OF WHEY ISOLATE. I WOULD ALSO HAVE 5 GRAMS OF CREATINE AT THIS TIME TO AID IN CELL VOLUMIZING
 

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that was taken from an interview with an ifbb pro, from another board
here it is.

INTERVIEWS ARE A DIME A DOZEN AND CAN GO ONE OF 2 WAYS. THEY ARE EITHER COMPLETELY ****ING BORING WHICH IS THE KIND YOU READ IN THE MAGAZINES.....OR THEY ARE COMPLETELY FABRICATED, LIKE THE KIND YOU SEE ON OTHER BODYBUILDING WEBSITES. THIS INTERVIEW REPRESENTS NEITHER. THE NAME OF THE INDIVIDUAL HAS BEEN KEPT ANONYMOUS DUE TO CONTRACTUAL OBLIGATIONS. WITH THAT BEING SAID, WHAT IS TO FOLLOW IS A MOST INFORMATIVE AND EDUCATIONAL INTERVIEW ON ONE PARTICULAR TOPIC:

TREVOR; WHAT WAS THE CAUSE OF THE 20-30LB BODYWEIGHT JUMPS FROM 1994-PRESENT. I MEAN LETS FACE IT, NASSER EL SONBATY WAS AN AVERAGE PRO UNTIL 1995 AND RONNIE COLEMAN WAS A 2ND OR 3RD TIER ATHLETE UP UNTIL 1997, JEAN PIERRE FUX GAINED 40 LBS OF TISSUE IN A YEAR AND A HALF, CHRIS CORMIER HAS GONE FROM AVERAGE TO TOP 3, HELL EVEN DORIAN WENT FROM 230LBS TO 260LBS SEEMINGLY OVERNIGHT. ALL OF THESE MEN HAVE HAD LOTS OF EXPERIENCE WITH STEROIDS AND G.H. SO THERE HAD TO BE ANOTHER FACTOR. AT FIRST IT WAS THOUGHT IGF-1 WAS RESPONSIBLE, BUT THIS PROVED TO BE A RATHER INEFFECTIVE COMPOUND.

SO WHAT WAS IT?

THIS QUESTION HAS BEEN ON EVERYONE'S MIND SINCE THE EMERGENCE OF 280-290LB BODYBUILDERS FROM SEEMINGLY OUT OF NO-WHERE. I ALWAYS THOUGHT IT MUST HAVE BEEN THE EMERGENCE OF IGF-1, BUT THEN AFTER RESEARCHING SOME THINGS, I FOUND OUT THAT IGF-1 IS A **** DRUG AND DOESN'T DO MUCH. (hey this is Trevors opinion not mine-DC) WHAT GIVES?

IFBBPRO: I N S U L I N! THAT'S WHAT GIVES! I'VE KNOWN A LOT OF THESE GUYS FOR A WHILE NOW AND I CAN UNEQUIVOCALLY TELL YOU THAT IT IS THE RESULT OF INSULIN THAT THESE HUGE LEAPS HAVE BEEN MADE.

TREVOR; INSULIN? IF THAT IS THE CASE, THEN HOW COME SO MANY PEOPLE CLAIM IT WILL MAKE YOU FAT

IFBBPRO: BECAUSE IT CAN MAKE YOU FAT IF YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING AND DO NOT USE THE RIGHT TYPE.

TREVOR; CAN YOU EXPLAIN HOW TO USE IT SO ONE WOULD NOT GET FAT.

IFBBPRO: ACTUALLY IT'S QUITE SIMPLY. YOU SEE THERE ARE DIFFERENT TYPES OF INSULIN L, N, R , AND HUMALOG. THE DIFFERENCE IS IN THE ACTING TIMES. L LASTS IN THE SYSTEM FOR AROUND 24HOURS PEAKING SEVERAL TIMES THROUGHOUT THE DAY AND TAKES 2 HOURS TO BEGIN TO WORK, N IS MEDIUM IN ITS ACTING TIME LASTING AROUND 12 HOURS AND R IS THE QUICKEST OF THESE THREE, LASTING FOR ABOUT 6 HOURS AND HITTING THE SYSTEM IN ABOUT 30-45 MINUTES. HUMALOG IS NEWER AND ACTUALLY BEGINS WORKING IN 5-15 MINUTES AND LASTS FOR 4 HOURS

ONCE YOU UNDERSTAND THIS, YOU CAN USE INSULIN TO YOUR ADVANTAGE. WITH ALL INSULIN YOU NEED TO HAVE GLUCOSE PRESENT IN THE BLOOD STREAM SO IT CAN HAVE SOMETHING TO ACT ON AND TRANSPORT IT INTO THE CELLS. THE POPULAR RULE OF THUMB OF 10-15 GRAMS OF GLUCOSE/CARBS PER I.U. OF INSULIN WAS SOMETHING THAT I ACTUALLY CAME UP WITH. PLEASE DON'T THINK I AM BEING ARROGANT, IT'S JUST THAT I WAS DOING A LOT OF RESEARCH ON INSULIN IN THE EARLY 90'S AND IT IS DIRECTLY AND INDIRECTLY DUE TO THAT RESEARCH THAT INSULIN HAS BECOME A POPULAR TOOL IN THE BODYBUILDERS ****NAL. MANY PEOPLE HAVE CONTACTED ME ON HOW TO USE INSULIN. NOW WITH INSULIN YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT IT IS AN INDISCRIMINANT CARRIER WHICH IS BOTH GOOD AND BAD. GOOD BECAUSE ALONG WITH THE TRANSPORTING OF GLUCOSE, IT WILL ALSO TRANSPORT AMINO ACIDS INTO THE MUSCLE CELLS. BAD BECAUSE IF THERE IS A LOT OF FAT PRESENT, IT WILL SHOVE THAT INTO CELLS AS WELL AND THIS IS WHY YOU GET FAT FROM INSULIN. IF YOU USE A LONG ACTING INSULIN THAT PEAKS SEVERAL TIMES THROUGHOUT THE DAY, IT IS IMPERATIVE THAT YOU EAT A CARB AND PROTEIN MEAL EVERY 2 HOURS TO INSURE THAT WHEN IT PEAKS, YOU HAVE A NUTRIENT POOL AVAILABLE FOR IT TO WORK ON. IF YOU TOOK A SHOT OF INSULIN IN THE MORNING AND IT WAS LONG ACTING, IF YOU EAT A PIZZA AT 8:00PM, THE FAT WILL GET TRANSPORTED INTO THE CELLS AND YOU WILL GET FAT. THE WAY AROUND THIS IS TO 1. KEEP DIETARY FAT TO A MINIMUM ALL THE TIME OR 2. USE A FASTER ACTING INSULIN. FOR ME--EVEN THOUGH I ALWAYS EAT LOW AMOUNTS OF FAT PER DAY--THE ANSWER SHOULD BE 2.

THE REASON FOR THIS LIES IN THE FACT THAT YOU CAN CONTROL IT MUCH BETTER IF YOU KNOW THAT IT IS HITTING IN 15-20MINUTES AND WILL BE OUT OF THE SYSTEM IN 4 HOURS OR LESS. ALL OF THE INCIDENTS OF PEOPLE FAINTING OR GOING INTO COMAS BECAUSE OF INSULIN HAS TO DO WITH THE FACT THAT THERE WAS NOT ENOUGH GLUCOSE PRESENT IN THE BLOODSTREAM WHEN THE INSULIN PEAKED. WHEN YOU USE A LONG ACTING INSULIN THAT PEAKS AT VARIOUS TIMES OVER A 24HOUR PERIOD, YOU RUN A MUCH GREATER RISK OF NOT HAVING ENOUGH GLUCOSE PRESENT BECAUSE YOU ARE MORE APT TO SKIP A MEAL OR BE DRIVING IN YOUR CAR WHEN IT HITS...I LIKE THE HUMALOG THE BEST AND WOULD TELL EVERYONE TO USE IT SOLELY OR IF THEY CANNOT GET IT, USE THE R. DO NOT USE THE N!

TREVOR; DOES IT MATTER WHAT TYPES OF CARBS YOU EAT WHEN YOU USE INSULIN?

IFBBPRO: YES! I AM A FIRM BELIEVER THAT YOU SHOULD USE PRIMARILY SIMPLE CARBS.

TREVOR; SIMPLE CARBS?

IFBBPRO: YES. LOOK AT THE END OF THE DAY THE BODY BREAKS DOWN COMPLEX CARBS INTO GLUCOSE AND IT IS GLUCOSE THAT IS TRANSPORTED INTO THE CELLS. WHEN YOU ARE USING A RAPID ACTING INSULIN IT IS IMPORTANT TO MINIMIZE THE TIME IT TAKES THE BODY TO CONVERT CARBS TO SIMPLE SUGARS. WHY CREATE ANOTHER STEP IN THE PROCESS? IT ONLY TAKES MORE TIME AND YOU RUN THE RISK OF NOT HAVING ENOUGH OF THE COMPLEX CARBS BROKEN DOWN INTO GLUCOSE IN TIME WHEN THE INSULIN HITS. FOR THIS REASON I SUGGEST THE USE OF DEXTROSE.

TREVOR; SO WHAT IS THE REGIME YOU WOULD RECOMMEND?

IFBBPRO: WELL I SUGGEST THAT FOR OPTIMAL RESULTS, YOU USE HUMALOG AT 10-15IU'S IMMEDIATELY AFTER TRAINING BECAUSE THAT IS WHEN YOU BODY IS MOST DEPLETED OF GLYCOGEN STORES AND IS PRIMED TO OVERCOMPENSATE FOR THE INFLUX OF NUTRIENTS. NOW HUMALOG HITS IN 5-15MINUTES SO YOU MUST IMMEDIATELY INGEST 10 GRAMS OF SIMPLE CARBS PER EVERY I.U. OF INSULIN YOU USE (IN THIS CASE BETWEEN 100-150 GRAMS) I WOULD ALSO TAKE IN ADDITIONAL NUTRIENTS THAT HELP CONTRIBUTE TO MUSCLE GROWTH SUCH AS AMINO ACIDS OR 50 GRAMS OF WHEY ISOLATE. I WOULD ALSO HAVE 5 GRAMS OF CREATINE AT THIS TIME TO AID IN CELL VOLUMIZING.

THE BEST CASE SCENARIO WOULD BE TO DO THIS TWICE AND DAY AND THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN DO THIS TWICE A DAY IS IF YOU TRAIN TWICE A DAY (THE MORE YOU DEPLETE YOUR GLYCOGEN STORES, THE MORE OF AN OPPORTUNITY YOU HAVE TO USE INSULIN TO OVERCOMPENSATE WITH NUTRIENTS)

TREVOR; WOULD YOU USE INSULIN DURING YOUR CONTEST PREP?

IFBBPRO: ABSOLUTELY I WOULD NOT PREPARE WITHOUT IT. YOU JUST HAVE TO KEEP IN MIND THAT YOU HAVE TO USE IT WHEN YOU CAN IN TERMS OF HIGH CARB AND LOW CARB DAYS WHEN YOU ARE DIETING.

TREVOR; SO LET ME GET THIS STRAIGHT. YOU ARE TELLING ME THAT INSULIN ALONE IS WHAT IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE 20-30LB. JUMP IN LEAN BODY MASS IN ALL THE TOP GUYS?

IFBBPRO: ABSOLUTELY. I GUARANTEE THAT IF A BODYBUILDER IS STAGNANT AND HAS NOT USED INSULIN YET OR USED IT CORRECTLY, HE CAN PUT 20-30LBS OF MUSCLE ON. THERE IS NO DOUBT IN MY MIND. I AM SO SURE OF IT THAT I WOULD BET MY LIFE ON IT. I AM THAT POSITIVE.

TREVOR; ANYTHING ELSE ABOUT INSULIN WE SHOULD KNOW BEFORE WE MOVE ON?

IFBBPRO: YES. WHEN YOU USE IT, YOU WILL FIND THAT YOUR MUSCLES FILL OUT SO MUCH THAT YOU CANNOT USE IT EVERY DAY. I FIND THAT WITH MYSELF I CAN USE IF FOR 2-3 DAYS AND THEN OFF FOR 1-2 DAYS. EVERYONE VARIES, BUT THERE IS A POINT WHEN YOU ARE SO SUPERSATURATED THAT YOU CANNOT GET ANY FULLER. ALSO I WOULD NOT GO OVER 40 I.U.'S OF INSULIN PER DAY DIVIDED INTO 2 20IU SHOTS. JUST SOMETHING TO KEEP IN MIND
 

Big B

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You should definately do more research on good ol type-R before you start slamming it. Great for size i couldnt belive what it did for me 15lbs in 10 days....amazing. Careful it does store body fat! Vitargo works great with insulin approx 100gs 15min after your shot. 15 mins after that hit up your prot/gluta shake approx. 45/10gs works fine then 30 mins after chomp down a great meal! Kre-Alkalyn is a must with the Vitargo......Good luck! Dont forget if you feel like sleeping or a little beer buzz hit up some sugar like FAST!!
 
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