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How to "pulse" orals

I'm a noob here and have enjoyed this thread greatly.

I'm very interested in what Dr. D and others think of this pulsing strategy:

I'm in the planning stage of doing a 30mg m-drol pulse on my training days that follow a 1 day on and 2 days off format. In essence, I'd be pulsing 2.5x/week. Are there any merits to this frquency? How long could I expect to do this for? Six weeks? Eight weeks?

Some background if it would be helpful.

I'm 38 y.o. 5'11, 275 lbs, 14% bf. in good health who is mostly interested in powerlifting and strongman lifts. I'm able to do my own lab work and have torem on hand if necessary.

Many thanks in advance.
 
I have tried a lower dosing pulse that is similar, 3 times weekly, MWF for 5 wks ,stacked with creatine, that exceeded my expectations.
 
*first post*

First off, I would like to comment on the content of this thread....it is amazing! Tons of useful info...which I'm still reading. I just found the forum and 93 pages is quite a bit to get thru...but I do have a question...and please forgive me if it has been brought up. As I stated, I'm still reading all these pages.

I have never taken any ph, but am thinking about giving ep a shot. I'm 35 and have been in the gym for about three years. 5'6 @ 168-170.lbs...not sure of my bf%

My question, or concern is...why the mixed feelings on pulsing? I've read tons of positive outlooks in this thread, but have read as many negative ones elsewhere. I'm worried about having a bad experience my first time out.

Also, I am slowly losing my hair. Will pulsing accelerate(i know this can't be answered 100%)my hair loss? Will any pct help reduce the risk if I decide to use a ph...pulsing?

Thank you for any help/input!
 
The mixed feelings are because some guys dont make apprecciable gains pulsing. The other logic is, if you're going to ingest something that could give you side effects, might as well take enough to get definate results. Pulsing should work for you, you should have support supps though. There are stickies throughout the forum, do a search for example, hair loss, and read about it. Read about Toco 8 from primordial performance.
 
Thanks, I'll go see what I can find. I've grown to accept my current hair loss as a fact of life.....I just don't want to help it along, ya know!!
 
Ok, I've been reading and have come across a stack sold that has epistane/cycle support/and post cycle support. Can I post this link? My question is...if I get this stack is there anything else I would need to take? pct/serm?? I know in pulsing, there is generally no need to pct(if i understand correctly), but I've also read that some do anyway.
 
pacos said:
Ok, I've been reading and have come across a stack sold that has epistane/cycle support/and post cycle support. Can I post this link? My question is...if I get this stack is there anything else I would need to take? pct/serm?? I know in pulsing, there is generally no need to pct(if i understand correctly), but I've also read that some do anyway.
Click to expand...

In theory, you could be okay without a SERM. So you could take a chance... But you'll wish you had the SERM if you start growing a fresh set of breasts. :think:
 
Thanks, that is kind of how I'm thinking too. Next question...in the "REsults from pulsing" thread...seems like everyone has 2, 3, 4, 5 different pct's listed. Then, I read up on SERM and see Nolvadex, Clomid, etc. listed. If the SERM is going to help w/side effects of elevated estrogen levels...why would you need more than that?
 
pacos said:
Thanks, that is kind of how I'm thinking too. Next question...in the "REsults from pulsing" thread...seems like everyone has 2, 3, 4, 5 different pct's listed. Then, I read up on SERM and see Nolvadex, Clomid, etc. listed. If the SERM is going to help w/side effects of elevated estrogen levels...why would you need more than that?
Click to expand...

The SERM keeps the elevated estrogen levels from acting on your tissues. It doesn't reduce estrogen levels.
 
pacos said:
Ok, so I need SERM and something else to help reduce the estrogen levels?
Click to expand...

Okay, so you get on the Juice. You use a little more than your body needed. Not only is your normal testosterone production suppressed, but it's shutdown. Now you don't make any testosterone, and your levels are low. Your body now has extra estrogen. Now the estrogen can f*ck you up. This is when you need a SERM. If you can keep yourself from getting shutdown or minimize suppression, you may not need a SERM. This is the goal of pulsing. A major item used in PCT is ATD. ATD will inhibit aromatization of testosterone, which will prevent but not decrease, elevated levels of estrogen.
 
trackstud100m said:
what about the unstable blood levels and other sides that come about from using only on workout days etc.
Click to expand...

This question has been answered on this thread many times. In short, all orals cause unstable blood levels to some degree, especially with short half-life chemicals, such as superdrol, dbol, and epistane. The idea behind pulsing is you get anabolic spikes at key times in order to get the benefits of the hormones while avoiding complete HPTA suppression and other side effects.
 
RobInKuwait said:
This question has been answered on this thread many times. In short, all orals cause unstable blood levels to some degree, especially with short half-life chemicals, such as superdrol, dbol, and epistane. The idea behind pulsing is you get anabolic spikes at key times in order to get the benefits of the hormones while avoiding complete HPTA suppression and other side effects.
Click to expand...

As you can tell im new to the site and fairly new to PH's, I am use to pinning and taking other anabolics. Also when taking a compound two days on 3 days off etc I could see your chances of developing gyno increasing.
 
trackstud100m said:
As you can tell im new to the site and fairly new to PH's, I am use to pinning and taking other anabolics. Also when taking a compound two days on 3 days off etc I could see your chances of developing gyno increasing.
Click to expand...

I don't think that has been the case on any of the pulsing threads I've read.

You should read through this thread. Its a huge thread, but Dr. D is very knowledgeable and intelligent and has lots of experience with cycling and pulsing. Any questions you have about pulsing have probably already answered somewhere on this thread.
 
trackstud100m said:
what about the unstable blood levels and other sides that come about from using only on workout days etc.
Click to expand...
You need this with pulsing. alot of people get all mad about this but it is for the best. imo It acts as a way to help your hormones bounce back higher. If you do it correctly it should help your hormones bounce back more than before!
 
hman85 said:
You need this with pulsing. alot of people get all mad about this but it is for the best. imo It acts as a way to help your hormones bounce back higher. If you do it correctly it should help your hormones bounce back more than before!
Click to expand...
What will help your hormones bounce back more than before; taking a couple of days off??
 
I'm going to post this...even though it has been covered by Delita on a previous post. The reason is...I don't think i will be able to get a SERM from my md. (also has been posted in the 35+ section..but replies)

I'm suffering from info overload after three days of reading review after review and opinion after opinion.

I am starting my research on a possible epistane pulse cycle. I have read the Results from Pulsing thread as well as the No excuses thread regarding SERMs.

I have found a stack by IBE..I'm sure you know the one. comes with the ep, cycle support, and post cycle support. I emailed customer service and they said that this stack is really all I need.

My question is...if I end up deciding to try my first ph cycle...would this stack cover all my bases, or would I NEED some others? SERM, I know is recommended, but I'm not sure if my doctor will rx. If one is needed, can I get some OTC suggestions?

Simple would be nice. I'm not looking for huge gains or a miracle...I would like to lean up and maybe in the process gain a few. I'm 35, 5'6, 167-170 lbs, not sure of my bf%.

Thanks for any help and/or guidance!

Jesse
 
pacos said:
I'm going to post this...even though it has been covered by Delita on a previous post. The reason is...I don't think i will be able to get a SERM from my md. (also has been posted in the 35+ section..but replies)

I'm suffering from info overload after three days of reading review after review and opinion after opinion.

I am starting my research on a possible epistane pulse cycle. I have read the Results from Pulsing thread as well as the No excuses thread regarding SERMs.

I have found a stack by IBE..I'm sure you know the one. comes with the ep, cycle support, and post cycle support. I emailed customer service and they said that this stack is really all I need.

My question is...if I end up deciding to try my first ph cycle...would this stack cover all my bases, or would I NEED some others? SERM, I know is recommended, but I'm not sure if my doctor will rx. If one is needed, can I get some OTC suggestions?

Simple would be nice. I'm not looking for huge gains or a miracle...I would like to lean up and maybe in the process gain a few. I'm 35, 5'6, 167-170 lbs, not sure of my bf%.

Thanks for any help and/or guidance!

Jesse
Click to expand...
You aren't going to need a serm for a epi pulse, but some people act diff to diff compounds. It is just always good to have one on hand for a extreme situation!
 
^I understand that it is a good idea to have one, but I don't have access to a true rx SERM...can I have something else in it's place as back-up just in case??? OTC??
 
No one here wants to go out on a limb. You have to make your own decisions based on YOUR research. Find the PCT forum and start there. Good luck with your research!
 
Ok, I can understand. I've been in the PCT forum and was overwhelmed...but i'll see what i can find. Thanks.
 
hey guys, if you're pulsing 2 orals, do you take the more androgenic steroid preworkout and then the more anabolic steroid post workout? i cant remember where i read this but please shed some light brothers
 
gettingully1 said:
hey guys, if you're pulsing 2 orals, do you take the more androgenic steroid preworkout and then the more anabolic steroid post workout? i cant remember where i read this but please shed some light brothers
Click to expand...

Pulsing 2 orals together will cause more suppression and defeat the purpose of pulsing. If you have to do it, take the more androgenic one pre-workout.
 
so for example 10mg superdrol + 10 mg Pheraplex would yield significantly more sides than 20mg superdrol or 20mg pheraplex? and pulsing wont help mitigate the additional sides? any more information would be appreciated?
 
gettingully1 said:
so for example 10mg superdrol + 10 mg Pheraplex would yield significantly more sides than 20mg superdrol or 20mg pheraplex? and pulsing wont help mitigate the additional sides? any more information would be appreciated?
Click to expand...

I think it depends on the substances, person, and dose. I don't think pulsing those two compounds will cause any more or less sides than just SD alone. I tried it a few times and didn't feel any worse or better than pulsing SD alone. I just think PP doesn't make for a good pulsing agent. SD is awesome in either a pulsing application, or a low dose mini (3 week) cycle. Depends on what you want to get out of it.
 
gettingully1 said:
so for example 10mg superdrol + 10 mg Pheraplex would yield significantly more sides than 20mg superdrol or 20mg pheraplex? and pulsing wont help mitigate the additional sides? any more information would be appreciated?
Click to expand...

If you are pulsing then you are obviously trying to stear clear of sides. Why risk it?

I might pulse Superdrol at 10mg per day, 3 times a week for 2 weeks and be scared. I'm not adding PP to that mix.
 
Yeah phera isn't the best for pulsing just because of the time it takes to load up. I have heard of people doing it with good luck though. Take the anabolic one after and the androgenic one before(about hour and a half). The doses aren't going to cause more sides imo. 20 mgs is 20 mgs. Unless you are comparing something like superdrol to epistane.
 
hman85 said:
Yeah phera isn't the best for pulsing just because of the time it takes to load up. I have heard of people doing it with good luck though. Take the anabolic one after and the androgenic one before(about hour and a half). The doses aren't going to cause more sides imo. 20 mgs is 20 mgs. Unless you are comparing something like superdrol to epistane.
Click to expand...
You would think that Phera Plex being so androgenic that it would be great for pulsing, but I think it must have something to do with a longer half life. You just don't get the same positive feeling during your workouts that you get when you pulse SD or EPI.
 
RUNNER 67 said:
You would think that Phera Plex being so androgenic that it would be great for pulsing, but I think it must have something to do with a longer half life. You just don't get the same positive feeling during your workouts that you get when you pulse SD or EPI.
Click to expand...
Yeah sd is where it is at for pulsing!
 
You guys have any input about running phera for 2 weeks? I have a bunch and want to use some, but I don't really want to run a typical cycle. It seems that some see nice gains in the 2 week timeframe and others see nothing til after 2 weeks. I know this isn't a typical pulse, but this seems like an appropriate thread.
 
RUNNER 67 said:
You would think that Phera Plex being so androgenic that it would be great for pulsing, but I think it must have something to do with a longer half life. You just don't get the same positive feeling during your workouts that you get when you pulse SD or EPI.
Click to expand...


Dr. D has explained this. Anabolic compounds with low levels of androgenicity like Epistane or Superdrol are far less supressive to the HPTA compared to PP.
 
MuscleBound1337 said:
Dr. D has explained this. Anabolic compounds with low levels of androgenicity like Epistane or Superdrol are far less supressive to the HPTA compared to PP.
Click to expand...
i wasn't refering to supression, rather the strength boost and alpha male feeling that SD and EPI give when you pulse 30-60 minutes prior to your workout. PP just doesn't give the same feeling.
 
Ok, after quite a bit of reading, I think I may have my mind somewhat wrapped around the idea of pulsing...please correct me if I'm wrong. Any tweaks/suggestions/criticisms are very welcome.

Take the ph(epi in this case)eod...i'm thinking 3 on and 4 off?

first week 10/10/10, second and third 20/20/20 and fourth week 30/30/30? On my off days, I need to take a test booster. Then after the cycle, I need to take a pct every day for four weeks. unless I go with the Sustain..in which case I would take it 5 days on 2 days off. Does that about sum it up?

Also, if i take it 3 on 4 off...would it be something like m, w, f(on days and workout days), then off on T, Th, Sat, Sun?

Lastly...is a four week cycle typical or do most go longer?

Thanks,

Jesse
 
pacos said:
Ok, after quite a bit of reading, I think I may have my mind somewhat wrapped around the idea of pulsing...please correct me if I'm wrong. Any tweaks/suggestions/criticisms are very welcome.

Take the ph(epi in this case)eod...i'm thinking 3 on and 4 off?

first week 10/10/10, second and third 20/20/20 and fourth week 30/30/30? On my off days, I need to take a test booster. Then after the cycle, I need to take a pct every day for four weeks. unless I go with the Sustain..in which case I would take it 5 days on 2 days off. Does that about sum it up?

Also, if i take it 3 on 4 off...would it be something like m, w, f(on days and workout days), then off on T, Th, Sat, Sun?

Lastly...is a four week cycle typical or do most go longer?

Thanks,

Jesse
Click to expand...
With pulsing you will probably need a longer cycle length. 6 weeks is about right. imo Go ahead and start at 20mgs and go from there. You are using the pulse method so your doses will be higher than a ED fashion. If you are using epi I would jump up to 30mgs after the first or second day, but that is just me. Epi seems extremely mild to me and I have to use a decent dose to feel it!
 
Exactly. I found epi in bulk and made an olive oil suspension with it and dose 40mg pre workout 2-3 days a week. It is perfect to accompany hard heavy days (especially along with new JACKED by USP labs(shameless)), giving you just the right surge in strength and stamina without any worries.
 
TripDog said:
hey D,is there any safe way to incorparate m1t into a pulse..for example say (monday) epi,(wed) m1t, (sat)epi....just currious.Not just with epi,but something like that...i don't really plan to run that i was wondering what your 2 cents were tho....
Click to expand...

Hey Dr D. with that idea, what do u think about this cycle? to avoid a severe Shutdown that would require a PCT with a SERM.

M-W-F (w/ either 5 or 10mg of M1T)

WK1: M1T 10mg - EPI 20mg - EPI 20mg
WK2: EPI 20mg - M1T 10mg - EPI 20mg
WK3: EPI 20mg - EPI 20mg - M1T 10mg

(maybe a week off, if needed. i wud prefer to go straight threw)

WK4: EPI 20MG - M1T 10mg - EPI 20mg
WK5: M1T 10mg - EPI 20mg - EPI 20mg
WK6: EPI 20mg - M1T 10mg - EPI 20mg
WK7: EPI 20mg - EPI 20mg - M1T 10MG

(leftovers i wana use up)

Would i still need a pct with a serm?


DR.D said:
If there was any 'safe' way to use M1T, that would probably be it! Either that or use low doses (1.25-2.5mg pre-w/o only, I've tried that before).
Click to expand...

Also Dr.D!

my main questions from this quote are:


how did that M1T pulse work out for you?

how long did you run the pulse for?

was it a 3 day pulse or a 4 day pulse?

did you still need to do a PCT with a Serm?

what where ur gains?



DR.D said:
M1T seems like it'd be great on a pulse due to the long acting effects, but the shutdown happens so fast that even pulsing might not save you from needing a PCT with it. 10mg once a week might be your best shot at incorporating it, just like you were thinking.
Click to expand...

so anything over 2.5 wud be done only once a week?




Also...

how about a M1T 2 Day Pulse?

Monday: M1T 1.25mg or 2.5mg or 5mg
Thursday: M1T 1.25mg or 2.5mg or 5mg

to avoid a severe Shutdown that would require a PCT with a SERM.
 
Thanks hman and runner! I just don't want to shut down...maybe a little overly cautious. what about the rest of my cycle? Test booster on off days and then PCT every day for 4 weeks after cycle?
 
pacos said:
Thanks hman and runner! I just don't want to shut down...maybe a little overly cautious. what about the rest of my cycle? Test booster on off days and then PCT every day for 4 weeks after cycle?
Click to expand...
If this is just for the epi pulse you mentioned above, I would take a test booster or low dose atd or 6oxo on off days with a 2 week light pct(i like transdermals during a pulse and for pct). Don't over do it. Save your pct for when you need it, unless at the end of this you do feel you need it. But i'm betting you won't. Just try to dose the epi in the morning. I personally think epi helps to raise overall test if pulsed early in the day with a max of three days a week.
 
Epistane Cycle

20/20/20(taken early morning)
30/30/30
30/30/30
40/40/40
40/40/40

or
10/10/10(taken early morning)
20/20/20
30/30/30
40/40/40
40/40/40

Off days take T-Bol as test booster
Take some cycle support supp everyday during cycle
after cycle...for 2 weeks...Sustain(5 days on, 2 off)

How's that??? Keep in mind, that this is my first experience w/ph. 5'6, 168-ish lbs.
 
pacos said:
Epistane Cycle

20/20/20(taken early morning)
30/30/30
30/30/30
40/40/40
40/40/40

or
10/10/10(taken early morning)
20/20/20
30/30/30
40/40/40
40/40/40

Off days take T-Bol as test booster
Take some cycle support supp everyday during cycle
after cycle...for 2 weeks...Sustain(5 days on, 2 off)

How's that??? Keep in mind, that this is my first experience w/ph. 5'6, 168-ish lbs.
Click to expand...
Yeah I'm at like 5'11 (i think i am shrinking from doing heavy squats) and 223-225. I havene't done a regular cycle since January, just pulsed a few times. The second looks fine if this is your first time. Take it early morning. I still like to take atd with epi low dosed on off days to control any type of estro bounce and its sarm like qualitites.Let us know how that t-bol works. I have been eyeing that product myself. Good luck, train hard.
 
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