How To Get To Heaven When You Die

[searl12]

If God didnt create us, I would like to know your opinions and thoughts on where we came from.

And if Jesus was really just a hoax as well as the whole "story" why did thousands die for him at time he lived?? Do you think Peter got crucified upside down for something he thoughts was fake????

WOW!!!! you have been told a fairytale since day 1, and you still believe it


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
This article is about evolution in biology. For other uses, see Evolution (disambiguation).

"Theory of evolution" redirects here. For more on how evolution is defined, see Evolution as theory and fact.
For a generally accessible and less technical introduction to the topic, see Introduction to evolution.

Part of the Biology series on
Evolution
Introduction
Mechanisms and processes

Adaptation
Genetic drift
Gene flow
Mutation
Natural selection
Speciation
Research and history

Evidence
Evolutionary history of life
History
Modern synthesis
Social effect
Theory and fact
Objections / Controversy
Evolutionary biology fields

Cladistics
Ecological genetics
Evolutionary development
Human evolution
Molecular evolution
Phylogenetics
Population genetics
Biology Portal · v • d • e

In biology, evolution is the change in the genetic material of a population of organisms from one generation to the next. Though the changes produced in any one generation are small, differences accumulate with each generation and can, over time, cause substantial changes in subsequent organisms in the population and thus changes in the overall population. This process can culminate in the emergence of new species[1]. Indeed, the similarities amongst organisms suggest that all known species or groups of species are descended from common ancestors (or ancestral gene pool) through a process of gradual divergence [2].

The basis of evolution is the genes that are passed on from generation to generation; these produce an organism's inherited traits. These traits vary within populations, with organisms showing heritable differences (variation) in their traits. Evolution itself is the product of two opposing forces: processes that constantly introduce variation, and processes that make variants either become more common or rare. New variation arises in two main ways: either from mutations in genes, or from the transfer of genes between populations and between species. In species that reproduce sexually, new combinations of genes are also produced by genetic recombination, which can increase variation between organisms.

Two major mechanisms determine which variants will become more common or rare in a population. One is natural selection, a process that causes helpful traits (those that increase the chance of survival and reproduction) to become more common in a population and causes harmful traits to become more rare. This occurs because individuals with advantageous traits are more likely to reproduce, meaning that more individuals in the next generation will inherit these traits.[2][3] Over many generations, adaptations occur through a combination of successive, small, random changes in traits, and natural selection of the variants best-suited for their environment.[4] The other major mechanism driving evolution is genetic drift, an independent process that produces random changes in the frequency of traits in a population. Genetic drift results from the role that chance plays in whether a given trait will be passed on as individuals survive and reproduce.

Evolutionary biologists document the fact that evolution occurs, and also develop and test theories that explain its causes. The study of evolutionary biology began in the mid-nineteenth century, when studies of the fossil record and the diversity of living organisms convinced most scientists that species changed over time.[5][6] However, the mechanism driving these changes remained unclear until the theories of natural selection were independently discovered by Charles Darwin and Alfred Wallace. Darwin's landmark work On the Origin of Species of 1859 brought the new theories of evolution by natural selection to a wide audience.[7] Darwin's work soon led to overwhelming acceptance of evolution among scientists.[8][9][10][11] In the 1930s, Darwinian natural selection was combined with Mendelian inheritance to form the modern evolutionary synthesis,[12] which connected the units of evolution (genes) and the mechanism of evolution (natural selection). This powerful explanatory and predictive theory directs research by constantly raising new questions, and it has become the central organizing principle of modern biology, providing a unifying explanation for the diversity of life on Earth.[9][10][13]

 

[searl12]

if your capable of reading this and getting anything from it then your entire arguement is over, and you need to go look in the mirror and come to grips with the fact that you have been living a lie for your entire life.

your choice, i know you will choose the easy way, cause thats all religion is, the easy way out.

 

[somewhatgifted]

if your capable of reading this and getting anything from it then your entire arguement is over, and you need to go look in the mirror and come to grips with the fact that you have been living a lie for your entire life.

your choice, i know you will choose the easy way, cause thats all religion is, the easy way out.

Yeah wikipedia the be-all end-all to all the questions of life and death.

 

[fightbackhxc]

But isnt evolution in itself just a fairytale then? Because to my knowledge it is just a theory just like creationism......

 

[roids1]

Searl12, I'm thinking that this thread was meant to be about prayer requests rather than religous debate. I don't chime in since I'm not religous myself. You might wanna consider starting a seperate thread if you want to debate religion in general. I'm not trying to tell you what to do. Just my 2cc's.

 

[searl12]

Searl12, I'm thinking that this thread was meant to be about prayer requests rather than religous debate. I don't chime in since I'm not religous myself. You might wanna consider starting a seperate thread if you want to debate religion in general. I'm not trying to tell you what to do. Just my 2cc's.

your right roids, I lost track of what it was even about arguing with evangelicals , mormons and just plain weirdos...either way i have my beliefs and they have theirs...I dont care as much as they think I do, and when i die...I die, just like they do....and thats it.

 

[fightbackhxc]

your right roids, I lost track of what it was even about arguing with evangelicals , mormons and just plain weirdos...either way i have my beliefs and they have theirs...I dont care as much as they think I do, and when i die...I die, just like they do....and thats it.

Again I said I am not arguing, just discussing....

 

[Pho3NiX]

Searl12, I'm thinking that this thread was meant to be about prayer requests rather than religous debate.

Searl, I think there's another prayer request thread that is very good to that mean. If we can use a civilized discussion I believe both side have interesting things to learn. The only way to get out of dangerous zone would be to get out of the If I'm right then you must be wrong mentality. I suggest we let conflicting information coexist as for now.

 

[searl12]

Searl, I think there's another prayer request thread that is very good to that mean. If we can use a civilized discussion I believe both side have interesting things to learn. The only way to get out of dangerous zone would be to get out of the If I'm right then you must be wrong mentality. I suggest we let conflicting information coexist as for now.

your right, I like to debate, but i have the problem of feeling so strongly to my arguement I end up feeling its my way or no way.

Its weird when you feel sooo sure inside, and someone is sooo sure of the exact opposite, its kind of funny when you think of it, but its kind of the beauty of it too cause were just all so different.

 

[NattyT]

just because I think americans put too much faith in religion isnt looking for a fight. And Im only kind of irked by the statement "you wont get into heaven if you dont believe" because it once again shows how ridiculious the whole argument is.

Who gives you the right to tell me "believe, or, if its real you wont get in" or you will go to hell if you dont believe, I mean how can anyone with a 9th grade+ education actually categorize people like that. its hypacritical because I was scoldeed for grouping people (southerners) yet your religion and your belief groups non believers into the group that wont get into heaven?

come on, its common sense man, you werent created by a man in the clouds, and your savior isnt a jewish carpenter, and mary wasnt even a virgin...from what I gather she was prostitute. i mean come on how many more fairytales can a human being believe?

just so you know, there are just as many non believers if not more, and alot of them are just as passionate about it as you are in your belief.

if I was looking for a fight you would really know it, this is simply me trying to knock some sense into your heads.

Searl you cant get mad at belivers because they say what gods word tells them to say. God says that if you dont belive in him or his son then you will not get into heaven, thats not mans word thats the almighty saying this. If you dont like that then you have to take that up with him. Its no different then your boss at work telling you if you dont do your job correctly then your fired. God being the creator of all things gives the rules, so just because people dont choose to follow them they have to face the consequence. There are always laws that have to be followed no matter where you are, what gets me is when people try and act as if god dosent love because he says you will go to hell for living a sinful life. I look at them and say , well he woke you up this morning didnt he, even though you still choose to live in sin. Death can come at any time, its because of the mercy that god has that you didnt loose your life today, even though you blaspheme the lord. He still allowed you to see another day rather you belive it or not.

 

[Pho3NiX]

But isnt evolution in itself just a fairytale then? Because to my knowledge it is just a theory just like creationism......

Yes and know.
It is a theory and every scientific fact is a theory.
In science you observe something, then you pose an hypothesis, then you try to prove or refute that hypothesis. Generally speaking a hypothesis start to get sound credit when it's able to predict something and discover a new thing.

For example theory of gravitation was acknowledged when we predicted the existence of a new planet and only later we where able to observe it.

For me the real difference lies in the fact that evolution theory is accepted as true because it allow to link a lot of observations this in return allowed some progress in different fields of sciences and medicine. In the particular case of Darwinism it's also interesting to know that other persons have come to the same conclusion in a totally independent way, but history need a single name.

For creationism, it is recognized as true mainly because it must beforehand be true because a source that must absolutely be true told us so. So basically it's not an hypothesis that have later be proven as true. However it may very well also make a very coherent whole between a lot of fact (many of them coming from that same source I guess). However I'm pretty sure creationism haven't be able to predict any new observation which make it a weak theory in term of science.


Lastly I'll state that science is not perfect and in science it's pretty much never about the truth but much rather what work best for us to evolve with the observation we are trying to explain.

For example two perfectly coherent theories can coexist and be perfectly stable in themselves however those two theory can also be mutually exclusive. This is the case with physic.

Newtonian physic explain very well everything that happen at slow speed relative to the speed of ligth. Quantum physic explain pretty much everything but miserably fail to explain gravity. They are both perfectly usable for research and to design product you use everyday, but they are also mutually exclusive.

Then come string theory which is like the religion of physic... it must be true, period. It's unable to predict anything and if we observe something new then we just adjust the theory for the new observation....

 

[Pho3NiX]

your right, I like to debate, but i have the problem of feeling so strongly to my arguement I end up feeling its my way or no way.

Its weird when you feel sooo sure inside, and someone is sooo sure of the exact opposite, its kind of funny when you think of it, but its kind of the beauty of it too cause were just all so different.

You know that feeling when you have loved someone and everything is great. And then suddenly it not there anymore. And every time you see that person in the next couple of days it just hurt, all you see is impossible it's just against everything you believe as true.

Cognitive dissonance is the worst feeling on earth. When you have new information that goes against everything you believe as true. But somehow you must let it go

Sometime it look like all this debate is about that .. the lost of a loved one

 

[Pho3NiX]

Finally to Isoc....
You're definitvely the hardest to anwer too and it's a good thing


You have a very valid point about not letting the trees hide the forest, religion have it's fair share of good. Even if it's not perfect (from a not that much beleiver standpoint) it should not be trashed altogether.


For everything else I guess the only thing I can do is to ask some question.

If all of what matter to the end is accepting that Jesus paid for our sins, why does the bible even bother with everything else, all of those good principle ?

Are all those only guideline for an happy ideal life ?

If it's a guide, then why does the bible have to be TRUE. Why can't it 'only' be the very best resource available to humanity.

 

[keeper]

Pho3NiX, it's not all about being happy. In fact, most of our examples in the Bible did not live happy lives. They faces trials, challenges, and condemnation. There is a difference in happiness, which comes and goes, and joy, which abides.

Some of the principals of God are to protect us, (examples would be food, sexual behavior, etc.) Some are to help us know how to treat one another. Some are are to help us live with less stress (example would be not holding grudges or bitterness, forgiving wrongs done to us and to employ wisdom regarding restoration of trust in the ones who wrong us) but most are to help us live in such a way as to be "witnesses" of His love, forgiveness, sovereignty, and grace. I mean to live our lives in such a way that when we are going through tough times, we are held steady and strong by our faith that God's going to work it all out, eventually. Maybe not exactly the way we want, but in the way that us ultimately best. And we are to look for opportunities to show love, kindness, and compassion.

We are told about "the mystery of God." In plain English, that means that we simply do not get to know all the answers to all theological questions this side of heaven.

 

[isoc]

I am apologizing to searl12, I should not have made the remarks in my last post about you being hostile and the name calling. Who am I to say how you feel, or should feel, and what opinion you should have of me. Many people who know me better than you would agree with you on me being stupid. I'm sorry for what I did.

 

[BUCKNUTS]

your right, I like to debate, but i have the problem of feeling so strongly to my arguement I end up feeling its my way or no way.

Its weird when you feel sooo sure inside, and someone is sooo sure of the exact opposite, its kind of funny when you think of it, but its kind of the beauty of it too cause were just all so different.

I also apopolgize for the tone of my last post but not the content because it was the truth.
Debate is supposed to be a good thing bro, but when you resort to name calling, demeaning entire nations and religions and make such sweeping generalities it cannot truly be a debate it degenerates into an argument.

 

[DEADn]

so if I dont believe in god.....and there is a heaven....he wont let me in because I didn believe in him while I was on earth? sounds like an almighty god who loves all doesnt it? pfff , that statement is insulting, you telling me that if im wrong...and there is a god...he wont let me in? I thought god loved all of us equally? even if we sin, even if we dont believe? this just makes me believee even less, if he was so kind, loving and forgiving why would he discriminate against any of us?

dont you see the insanity of this statement? ill be damned if someone is gonna tell me im going to hell cause I dont believe in their sill religion.

DEADn says,
"Yes, forget someone telling you you are going to hell because you don't believe in their religion. Have you understood why someone would go to hell at all? Everybody has an opinion on it but a person has to go to the authority on it. Have you only heard this from people or have you read it from the authority on the matter. In this case it is the bible. It starts with the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ. If you don't understand what sin is then you will not understand the rest of the message. When a person understand the nature of sin the rest of the puzzle just comes together. "

Its America, you Americans are all brainwashed, you put waaayyy too much faith in god instead of taking your life into yuor own hands, you still sing "God Bless America'? I mean how much sense does that make? when you are a country of fre speech and rights? what if im American and dont believe? why should god bless merica even exist in a free country?

God its insane how Brainwashed Americans are, especially in the south, you put yuor life in gods hands and your lives are no better than one who puts their lives in their own hands.

See my reponse in bold italics

 

[isoc]

Finally to Isoc....
You're definitvely the hardest to anwer too and it's a good thing


You have a very valid point about not letting the trees hide the forest, religion have it's fair share of good. Even if it's not perfect (from a not that much beleiver standpoint) it should not be trashed altogether.


For everything else I guess the only thing I can do is to ask some question.

If all of what matter to the end is accepting that Jesus paid for our sins, why does the bible even bother with everything else, all of those good principle ?

Are all those only guideline for an happy ideal life ?


If it's a guide, then why does the bible have to be TRUE. Why can't it 'only' be the very best resource available to humanity.

Sorry man, just saw this reply. The reason for the good principals is twofold. First it is to show us that we have a need of forgiveness. If God did not set forth laws, commands, principals, etc., how would we know that we offended Him, and that we had a need to aks for forgiveness. Secondly, those good principals, as Keeper pointed out very well, are used to aid in promoting God. Would you be more apt to listen to what someone says about God who is "moral" and a "good person", or someone who is the opposite? It is a nice side effect that many times, me included, lives are changed and improved by living according to these principals, however the main reason is all about God.

My last statement is why we as Christians view the Bible as truth, because in the end it is all about God and eternity, not just this earthly life. There are many different moral teachings, and many of them the same, and many that coincide very well the Bible. In most areas stealing and murder are looked down upon and being kind to others is encouraged. Those are excellent practices to live by, however, according to the Bible, living by those practices alone will not get you into Heaven. Whether people think it is right, wrong, crazy, etc. the Bible states that those who live under the law are bound to keep the whole law (by Biblical definition those are all who have not accepted Jesus Christ sacrifice on their behalf and asked God for forgiveness). In essence, if you choose to not ask for forgiveness, and let your actions be judged, you are found guilty if you broke any part of the law, and unfortunately the punishment is the same for all offenses. That sounds unfair, but view it in the context of we all have had a chance to ask for forgiveness with the assurance that no matter what we did, we will be forgiven, if we are truly sorry, and that if we are forgiven we are no longer found guilty. With that statement in mind, then there really becomes only one sin, or law that will condemn to hell and that is not being forgiven, the rejection of God. Viewed like that where there is truly only one offense, then the punishment of hell for all offenses makes more sense, because there is truly only one offense.

I dont expect this to make much sense or even have you or others agree, at least for me it was a hard concept to try to understand and even to believe, and definitely to come to the point where I am in agreement with it (there are many things that are in the Bible that my flesh wishes were not, but just because I dont "like" it doenst make it untrue or give me a pass on trying to live that way), but just to answer the question and give a little insight into what the thought process is of Christians. I hope it helps, let me know if I can answer anything else, or try to clarify anything further. thanks.

 

[dragonfly]

Just wanted to add my 2cc. As for arguing logic and science against God, let us consider this:

* The theory of creation:

In the beginning there was nothing....an then that nothing created something out of nothing.


* The theory of a creator:

In the beginning there was an almighty God and He created something out of nothing.

Can any of you here provide evidence that would support or refute either of the theories beyond any shred of doubt ?

I guess not, otherwise we wouldn't be arguing or discussing the matter, right ?

Well then, that leaves us with one option: both theories are equally valid.

Now, I'm going to ask you this: which one makes more sense ?

 

[dragonfly]

So youve got it all figured out it?

Science is a languange that explains to us, within its ability by nature, what we think we know based upon a few things we deem factual or certain.
The basis for these ascertions changes from time to time and as we delve deeper and deeper we realise just how little we really know.
To say science has disproved an all powerful being is like saying i know what is outside this galaxy.

Its simply not possible to coprehend the magnitude of such a hypothesis with much accuracy or validity.

A great saying states "a wise man realises he knows nothing at all". This is a statement to the importance of faith, believing in something that is not viewable by the naked eye, something bigger than meat and potatoes. Just cause we cant understand how we came to be doesnt mean we know that there isnt a god.

Being religious is a frame of mind, some need more support and help to be the best person they can, this does not mean that religion is for everyone or beneficial when you speak a different language.

I personally choose to talk to the universe myself by try not to think i "know" better than anyone else when it comes to life and death. I do however know what I believe.

Having a closed mind blocks truth from reaching you and therefore likens spiritual death, a worse thing than physical death and leads to decay of the mind. My opinion

My opinion too

you go ahead and put your faith into convenient fairytales for people scared to die.

Amazing how god never answers, how bad things happen to good people, and how so many people blindly put their faith into a jewish carpenter, or in the case of Islam a murderous , pedophile, pirate.

All religion has done is cloud the minds of weak minded people, interfere with politicial decisions...and cost the lives of 100s of millions of people.

The reason for human suffering is actually explained in great length.

Invalid Link Removed

 

[dragonfly]

I do however think alot of the messages and teaching s of religion are good for one to learn as they can certainly make for a better person.

Like I said I went through the roman Catholic system, I learned how to trewat others, women, my parents....sometimes I wish i could believe....I dont know...Ill tell you what ill do soem more research and Ill open my mind up a little more....Obviously I wisgh there was a heaven...wow i wish there was....

I am a scientist and I did my research. The outcome of it helped me to believe

If you do not object being exposed to different ideas that just might open up your eyes then please take time and check this out :

Invalid Link Removed

Watch part I and part II.

You've got nothing to lose but much to gain, you said yourself, you wish there was a heaven. Well, what if there is ?

 

[dragonfly]

I am sorry to offend with the word of hatred for the name of Jesus Christ, but it definitely stirs strong emotion both for and against. I am a strict Bible believer (though I am a hypocritical follower unfortunately) and so my responses are based on the Bible as best I can. The Bible is, for those who believe, the authentic word of God (I understand it is written by men many years ago, translated, etc., and I may be thought foolish, but I still believe). That entire book is about Jesus, the OT looks forward to His coming, the Gospels present His life, and the NT looks back to His first coming and forward to His second. It is based on the Bible that their is a chosen one, and that belief in Him is the way to Heaven, not of our own good works. Since I believe the Bible is the word of God, I dont question it, I just believe it and do my best to follow its teachings. Again, to many this is foolishness, it is too simple, and it is humiliating, but to me it was great gain. The reason I post these things is not to offend, but to help if possible, because Jesus Christ has been such a great help to me. It is like if I knew of a great supplement or training routine and wanted to share it so that others would prosper as well. How selfish would it be of me to keep it all to myself. I'll not be beligerent though either, and I hope I have not already crossed that line, yet what a terrible murderer would I be if would seek to share a training secret that would give temporary gain, yet withhold information that would save people from eternal torture, again according to the Bible. I do thank you all for the respect given and understanding. If I have offended in any way, it was not my intent and the failure/problem is due to me and not with God.

LIKEWISE !

I think that is rather obvious ! :lol:

 

[irone]

God is a friend to sinners. He willingly led a perfect life and died the sacrificial death for sinners. Christianity is unlike any other religion in the world; all other religions try to reach god through moral living and spiritual discipline, Christians are given the free and effectual gift of righteousness not by their own striving but by Christ's. Many religious leaders claimed to be enlightened, moral, wise and insightful and to some degree they were, but only Jesus claimed to be God himself. All other religions point out the things to do to become right with God, only Christianity points to the one who makes us right with God while we are hapless sinners. Jesus lived that moral righteous life for us which we are incapable of living even in our best moments. And he did it because he loves us, loves us desperately. That is the good news. No matter how hard you try you can’t be right with God. But one lived a perfect life and died the sacrificial death in your place while you were a sinner out of love for you. It’s something no man would have devised; we would create religions based on performance. God has a performance standard and the only one who fulfilled it was his son. Jesus died for our sins while we were sinners, that his life may be imputed to us. That is the only way God designed.