WARBIRDWS6
Banned
That doesn't make sense. Exogenous test = zero endogenous test. It doesn't ADD to your bodys test it replaces it...hence the term TRT
How to add Pp products to you Anti-Aging Medicines.
- Thread starter MattPorter
- Start date
WARBIRDWS6
Banned
Omigod....is this conversation really happening?
WARBIRDWS6
Banned
when you take in any amount of exogenous test, your body will stop producing test on its own....so you should be around zero (just a random figure meaning "not much at all")....so all you are left with? is whatever you are taking in from injections or gel or cream is basically what you are working with for test. I even asked last month about taking test boosters like DAA or fadogia while on TRT and pretty much everybody said don't bother since you won't be able to make any endogenous test (not sure how accurate this is...but...). If I could keep whatever I'm producing plus whatever I am taking in externally as far as test goes...I'd be very happy believe me. my QUESTION was...."why would ABv3 or SD or AHv3 throw off my testosterone #'s when I get blood work." I want a reading of whatever the gel is giving me (and whatever my body is producing if any at all) so I don't want to be taking anything that would interfere with the test results. I can stop any of it a week or more shy of the test, and probably will...but I want an explanation as to WHY they would impact my testosterone reading if my testosterone is exogenous....THAT is the question
Spaniard
Well-known member
WARBIRDWS6 said:
people are prescribed TRT for a given low range. Depending on the clinic that can be anywhere below 550. When someone on trt with 550 gets a test cyp injection of 100 mg, they are not immediately at 0 and in a lot of patients that doesn't happen for quite some time, if ever. Which is one of the reasons they monitor your levels, to adjust for your endogenous testosterone to shut down, not just E2 etc...
A PH cycle will very rarely shut anyone down to 0.
Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed
Endogenous = body created - testosterone, insulin, melatonin, etc... Made in the body
Exogenous = external creation - testosterone, insulin, etc... Synthetic derivatives, "bio identical hormones" (lab created), sometimes pulled from cadavers, bovine or other sources BUT still NOT made in YOUR body.
I don't know where the misunderstanding is. Not being a dick, I hope you know me better than that by now man.
WARBIRDWS6
Banned
you are a total idiot, I'm done with this stupidity. I know what exogenous and endogenous mean, and have "been knowing" since probably before you were born moron. so shove that straight up your ass. and as for you not understanding this concept? go do some more research and come back when you understand WTF the adults are talking about.
Spaniard
Well-known member
WARBIRDWS6 said:when you take in any amount of exogenous test, your body will stop producing test on its own....so you should be around zero (just a random figure meaning "not much at all")....so all you are left with? is whatever you are taking in from injections or gel or cream is basically what you are working with for test. I even asked last month about taking test boosters like DAA or fadogia while on TRT and pretty much everybody said don't bother since you won't be able to make any endogenous test (not sure how accurate this is...but...). If I could keep whatever I'm producing plus whatever I am taking in externally as far as test goes...I'd be very happy believe me. my QUESTION was...."why would ABv3 or SD or AHv3 throw off my testosterone #'s when I get blood work." I want a reading of whatever the gel is giving me (and whatever my body is producing if any at all) so I don't want to be taking anything that would interfere with the test results. I can stop any of it a week or more shy of the test, and probably will...but I want an explanation as to WHY they would impact my testosterone reading if my testosterone is exogenous....THAT is the question
Ok I think I see the problem... Scratch natural test, throw it out the window.
Andro gel (no idea conversion rate dosages whatever) - 500 ng/dl
Any Andro Series (again we DON'T know exact figures) - 600 ng/dl
Total of the two - 1100 ng/dl
= skewed results
Dr. sees your levels as being high dials back your dose end result, ****ing you.
Andro series products MAY increase your test. They most certainly have in other customers, I've witnessed it. Labs and everything we're talking +1900.
SD more than likely won't bump your test levels but again I haven't really looked into SD like I have the DHEA metabolites.
Not worth it, you're taking about setting yourself back months while figuring out what your dosages for TRT should be. Just cycle off prior.
WARBIRDWS6
Banned
you're the one that came up in here, didn't understand the question nor the concepts behind it, and then proceed to post definitions of words for me that I used in this very thread properly about 100 times. thats total bullshyt.
WARBIRDWS6
Banned
OH now you decide to understand the concept here. I don't see any way SD will negatively or positively affect my test levels since there is no endogenous test for it to crush. the DHEA products I will discontinue before testing....but matt porter said that the 1 and 4DHEA don't add to total test, or negligible at best....dermacrine I think will caused elevated test readings....AHv3 as far as I know only converts to DHT.
WARBIRDWS6
Banned
when you react like that to somebody who is posting the same wrong shyt time after time, and whats worse is trying to tell YOU that YOU are the idiot....its called "getting really pissed/frustrated"....NOT "emotional". there, now you know the difference.
MattPorter
Banned
^
The bird is at war (Angry birds)
-Matt
The bird is at war (Angry birds)
-Matt
WARBIRDWS6
Banned
well will the ABv3 or AHv3 skew the testosterone results or not?
Don't piss me off with the wrong answer either LMFAO
WARBIRDWS6
Banned
I Kill it on angry birds BTW.....cleared the original, seasons, RIO.....the space version I haven't cleared, sort of stopped playing since I have had classes the last 3 semesters so I need to study or read instead of playing angry birds in my free time at work LOL....
WARBIRDWS6
Banned
yeah you're the idiot who posted that TRT test plus "natural test" (to put it in idiot/your terms) = total test LMFAO.
WARBIRDWS6
Banned
bump this.
WARBIRDWS6
Banned
who is the idiot?
WARBIRDWS6
Banned
you = no fcking idea WTF you are talking about, not even basic 101 stuff.
me = asking questions about PP products or test boosters or whatever, and how they effect TRT, if at all.
all that = you + idiot.
me = asking questions about PP products or test boosters or whatever, and how they effect TRT, if at all.
all that = you + idiot.
Spaniard
Well-known member
Dude, how old are you? Saying the adults are talking...? You're throwing a fit like my 4 year old.WARBIRDWS6 said:
You forgot to add my other posts. What test has a way of deciphering in your body exogenous testosterone and endogenous testosterone? Until you are completely shut down, which again, does not happen immediately it is the total testosterone in your body that shows up on the blood test. Which again is another reason for varying dosages.
Really? Just going to flame and call me an idiot? Good point. You're a joke dude. Enjoy Andropause...WARBIRDWS6 said:
Also, google and find a clinic that offers a blood test that differentiates testosterone levels exo vs endo. Until then you just sound like an upset child.
WARBIRDWS6
Banned
yeah Okay, that all made about zero sense. who cares what is endo and what is exo? if you take any amount of exogenous test you won't be making anything substantial naturally...the test will show what the TRT dose is doing for you....within the first month or two I am fairly certain the majority of your testosterone # is your TRT. This is the reason I asked how clomid or DAA etc would work into TRT....even if you could get SOME endogenous test going that would be beneficial....probably not gonna happen. Good job ruining the thread though so that nobody will answer the actual question....congratulations....
Spaniard
Well-known member
WARBIRDWS6 said:
That's what I thought...
You're still incorrect but at least this time you avoided using insults to try and prove yourself right.
FYI HCG is what you're looking for. My captains wife runs a TRT clinic out here and that's what they have them on to avoid complete shut down.
Oh and one of the firefighters that just came off after 4 years results were 236 ng/dl. Kinda puts a hole in your 0 logic, eh? That's after testosterone cypionate injections every week for 4 years and they hadn't incorporated the HCG protocol while he was on.
WARBIRDWS6
Banned
I am well aware of Hcg, again probably since before you were born. thanks for the obvious "advice" though....not really...
again...thanks for nothing....
WARBIRDWS6
Banned
also, remember YOU were the one adding natural test to TRT test
(that would be the incorrect statement of this thread, yours not mine)thanks for playing.
Spaniard
Well-known member
WARBIRDWS6 said:also, remember YOU were the one adding natural test to TRT test
thanks for playing.
Again show a test that differentiates the two on the labs... What do you think total test is? TRT rx - natural levels? Your logic is flawed friend.
WARBIRDWS6
Banned
I'll give the guy credit in two regards, A) he keeps getting back up after getting knocked down (proven wrong)....being incorrect does not deter him from getting back into the fight (kind of like a zombie or something), and B) for being redundant about the same incorrect statements he keeps posting about, trying to prove that some how some way, he is correct (even though he is not).
Spaniard
Well-known member
I'm done at this point you're just arguing to argue. Just like my girlfriend, again, check estrogen levels. Estrogen dominant individuals tend to be irrational and act out of emotion instead of logical thought.
I answered because I genuinely wanted to help you. I witnessed AHV3 raise levels to 2600 when starting bloods (on trt) were 800. Feel free to ask HTS about it as I was in contact with him and Eric about it since I was astonished at the Andro series capabilities.
Take them all dude before, during and after your bloods.
Lol the bird is angry... Ever see a pea**** at the zoo? In comparison not far off. Both make noise but really have no follow through.
Good luck bro!
I answered because I genuinely wanted to help you. I witnessed AHV3 raise levels to 2600 when starting bloods (on trt) were 800. Feel free to ask HTS about it as I was in contact with him and Eric about it since I was astonished at the Andro series capabilities.
Take them all dude before, during and after your bloods.
Lol the bird is angry... Ever see a pea**** at the zoo? In comparison not far off. Both make noise but really have no follow through.
Good luck bro!
WARBIRDWS6
Banned
I am the guy "arguing just to argue" not him. I am the one that made incorrect statements not him....this guy is a classic example of projection just go look at the "evidence" to find the real offender. I'll leave that to the readers....
just go look at the "evidence" to find the real offender. I'll leave that to the readers....
WARBIRDWS6
Banned
I'm even willing to buy you a copy of either TRT for dummies or pay for a TRT 101 class at your local community college. I'm a nice guy like that.
Spaniard
Well-known member
WARBIRDWS6 said:I am the guy "arguing just to argue" not him. I am the one that made incorrect statements not him....this guy is a classic example of projection
WARBIRDWS6 said:
Alright dude a couple of things...
1. The only reason I haven't Negged you to red for your flamboyant comments is because you are well respected here by many members, myself included. And because in all my time here I've never Negged anyone or even come close because I view it as a childish game.
2. I've worked in healthcare for about 7 years now in the ER and on the ambulance. My fiancee to be is a nurse, her brother an ER physician and her sister a PA. My captains wife runs a TRT clinic and everyone of the guys I work with are on (minus the select few I coaxed off). Needless to say with that ^, my career and education (that I'm still doing), I'm pretty much immersed in healthcare and have been for almost ten years.
3. Your non sense ramblings about buying me trt for dummies and a trt class at my community college, while providing entertainment value have done NOTHING to prove your correct.
In conclusion, I offered you a way to prove yourself right and your rebuttal was more insults. The reason being is that you will not find a test that reads endogenous testosterone and exogenous testosterone as different values.
What does that prove? Let me break it down for you since you clearly don't understand.
During TRT you are given an exogenous testosterone source.
Even if you have 17 ng/dl natural testosterone levels IT WILL BE FOUND IN YOUR BLOOD TEST
Therefore, your TRT dosages + natural levels WILL show up as one value = TOTAL TESTOSTERONE LEVELS.
Hormone clinics are constantly having to adjust TRT dosages to make up for declining testosterone levels due to shut down.
For example:
Jason goes in for TRT they see his natural levels @ 360 ng/dl
The goal for a man his age would be base line 800-1200 so they start him with a low dose injection.
He then goes back for his first blood test they see his total values are at 900. Perfect. So they have him cruising for a while at 900 until his next blood test. He has dropped to about 700, not terrible but not in the range they'd like to see him.
Why did it drop if the TRT dosage stayed the same?
NATURAL LEVELS DECLINING, at which point they adjust his dosage accommodating for the drop of TOTAL testosterone values.
Call your local hormone clinic and ask. It will take 2 minutes of your day, but I'm sure you'd rather not, that way you don't have to admit defeat from someone younger than you.
Feel free to continue your BS but until you have proof backing up (which you won't find any) your non sense, go kick your dog or hit the gym for stress relief. I've remained respectful stating facts this whole debate while you have done nothing to support your claims.
WARBIRDWS6
Banned
I knew my zombie would be back
I already proved my point several times in this thread, you were just too thick headed to admit you made a mistake (and that you reiterated it over and over and over again until you figured out you F'd up, and stated you had been confused, then changed your story). I like your essay, you get an A for that, but too little too late. good day sir.
I already proved my point several times in this thread, you were just too thick headed to admit you made a mistake (and that you reiterated it over and over and over again until you figured out you F'd up, and stated you had been confused, then changed your story). I like your essay, you get an A for that, but too little too late. good day sir.
WARBIRDWS6
Banned
and PLEASE don't threaten me with rep LMFAO....I can just picture you sitting there repping 10 people in order to neg rep me again LOL I would laugh my ass off literally that you had to sit there for a week repping out all day in order to "get me again".....then I'd direct you to facebook and the teenage/middle school girls that you could play rep games with.....
I would laugh my ass off literally that you had to sit there for a week repping out all day in order to "get me again".....then I'd direct you to facebook and the teenage/middle school girls that you could play rep games with.....
Spaniard
Well-known member
Valdez said:
Valdez said:
Valdez said:
Valdez said:
Valdez said:
Valdez said:
I said throw out natural test because you weren't grasping the concept... I was simplifying for you so that you could understand.Valdez said:
Valdez said:
Valdez said:
Valdez said:
Valdez said:
Valdez said:
Valdez said:
Valdez said:
^^^My argument consistently remained the same except for taking out a variable due to it being to complex for you. My chick is getting frustrated with me replying to the "40 year old virgin" so I'm done. The successful people have things to do. Hold down the fort for me internet genius.Valdez said:
HereToStudy said:
breezy11
Well-known member
I had a very short run with TRT a little over a year ago and can offer a little feedback based on the experience. I had started with a TT level of 330ng/dl and was prescribed 1 tube of Testim (I think 5g) daily. 2 weeks later I was retested at 120ng/dl. The exogenous test caused shutdown rapidly (LH dropped to basically zero as well) and the replacement test/amount I absorbed wasn't enough to have me break even. In my case, it looked like complete shutdown occurred pretty fast and endogenous test wouldn't be a factor in future TT readings if I had continued.
WARBIRDWS6
Banned
I think its pretty immediate.....this is what worried me about them starting me on 2.5g of androgel for the first month to "assess tolerance" and for safety reasons. I'd rather they gave me a week of sample 2.5g gelpacks and then I could jump right on 5g which would be the lowest dose I figure could replace the low test reading, and then move on up from there by adjusting the dosage upwards after blood work every few months. I bet the past month my endogenous test dropped to nothing, and the 2.5g probably didn't even bring it up to 290+ (my initial reading was 290). So the first month is pretty much a wash, or a negative, but starting today i bumped to 5g and I'm doing my damndest to increase absorption....I bet I get way more than 10% with my protocol....we'll find out in a few months when I retest.....
kisaj
Legend
I can't say for sure in everyone, but it was pretty immediate for me. Not a complete 0 or anything, but on two tests it was in the low 200s, which was below my initial 219,221,211. It was initially seeing my nuts shrink up that freaked me out and had me start taking hcg. Then I go sick of constant injections, so I stopped the hcg about 8 months ago. Then the weirdest thing happened about 4 months ago- my nuts came back. I have no explanation, as nothing changed. They just simply came back to where they were before. Needless to say, it makes me extremely happy.
LiveToLift
Legend
Interesting stuff in here..
HereToStudy
Primordial Performance Rep
I think my replies to different people are being interpreted by multiple people.
What is said above is true. Endogeneous vs. exogeneous...It is all test in serum.
What is said above is true. Endogeneous vs. exogeneous...It is all test in serum.
MattPorter
Banned
You won the lottery, dating a super model, and won a championship and sit around 9% BF.....
Therefor you testosterone naturally surged higher than ever,,,,,that is the only validation...
Nice string of luck man!
lol
-Matt
kisaj
Legend
Hey, some of us have it and some of us don't!
But really, I know you only posted to give ****, but I don't care. I have no reason to tell any of you that I happened to notice my nuts are back, other than they are back. I realize it doesn't make a lot of sense, otherwise it wouldn't be worth noting. My doc even asked if I decided to start hcg on my own a few weeks back when I went in for an annual.
But really, I know you only posted to give ****, but I don't care. I have no reason to tell any of you that I happened to notice my nuts are back, other than they are back. I realize it doesn't make a lot of sense, otherwise it wouldn't be worth noting. My doc even asked if I decided to start hcg on my own a few weeks back when I went in for an annual.
The Matrix
Well-known member
Glad you.guys are done sword fight for.GOds sakes ..lol
Worse then 2 little.old.ladies with panties in a bunch...
Worse then 2 little.old.ladies with panties in a bunch...