How PPs 500mg test e equivalency is factored.(andro series v3)

[HereToStudy]

 

[Husker89]

So u could actually have no androgens but still claim you have 500mgs of injectable test or your product is equal to that b/c of Total hormonal accounting

 

[Husker89]

didnt think you had anything smart to say, why dont you stop harassing me

No.. Matt and heretostudy are much smarter than I and if they can't explain it in a way that you can understand, how would I? Like I said prob time to move on and stop harassing PP reps

 

[HereToStudy]

So u could actually have no androgens but still claim you have 500mgs of injectable test or your product is equal to that b/c of Total hormonal accounting

As I replied in your PM, any one with half a brain can look at the compounds, look into what they convert to, and see that this is not the case. So what is your point?

 

[HereToStudy]

didnt think you had anything smart to say, why dont you stop harassing me

Neither have you, for nearly your entire post history.

 

[Husker89]

I kn ow you think you are smart because you claim estrogen equals injectable test but ti doesnt dude sorry.

Neither have you, for nearly your entire post history.

 

[Husker89]

I just think your claim doesnt make sense, but you constantly have to try to bully me when im asking questions. And said it wasnt a bash thread

As I replied in your PM, any one with half a brain can look at the compounds, look into what they convert to, and see that this is not the case. So what is your point?

 

[HereToStudy]

I just think your claim doesnt make sense, but you constantly have to try to bully me when im asking questions. And said it wasnt a bash thread

I am done with you. Your clearly have the intelligence of a lab rat and are unable to comprehend even the simplest things. You attempt to twist words in a matter that suit you, even though you apparently have no comprehension of what you are even asking or how your answer has been provided. You continually make mention that you are not bashing or carrying out an objective, yet, many here, myself included, have disagreed. Within a day of your initial post, you made another call out thread about how we are dodging your question, in an attempt to slander Primordial. Am I really supposed to believe that your intentions are pure? I have had arguments with many on here. Even ask the guy munching on popcorn in this thread, jbry. We have gone back and forth numerous times. However, when that occured, I at least felt something came out of it, as not only do I consider jbry intelligent, he also knows what the **** he is talking about/asking about when it comes to hormones. Ironically, the same can be said for Chocolate Milk, whom your constant obsession with in your PMs to me is making me believe you have a life size poster of him in your room. This is why, even though he has 'turned' in my eyes from the time we used to get along very well, I still have respect for him. You, however, are a waste of this entire forums time.

If you want to believe that our product converts to 500mg of estrogen (as you so seem to be implying), then you are free to do so. If you would like to convince yourself the sky as red, I would have the same indifference. See the issue with your argument is it just doesn't make and god damn sense, yet you are not bright enough to comprehend that. This happens to be the most frustrating part of having to deal with you. Have you noticed that nearly every damn thread you have attempted to argue with me nearly all responders in the thread seem to side with me and by hyper-critical towards you? Have you ever sat back and thought that they may be on to something?

So I am going to carry on with my day. I suggest you do the same. I will check this thread merely to address any questions from anyone that matters, and to ensure the slander no longer continues. Your question has been answered, you can close your browser now and return to that poster of chocolate milk.

You are becoming an embarassment, and honestly, you are begining to embarass me for having spent so much time on you. Good luck with all of your fitness goals, and have a great rest of 2012.

 

[bikeswimlive]

Husker, I am happy to see you are still interested in our products. My offer to provide you with a coupon is still on the table.


In terms of how we developed the 'equivalency' that is provided on our sales pages as well as our white papers, it is not that difficult to understand. The idea was to look at the totality of hormonal activity that occurs when a user administers testosterone, and compare that activity in terms of what we know about the administration of the DHEA products found in the androseries. This allows us to provide a comparison to the end user that gives a general idea of product expectations, and allows a comparison to be made between these hormones and testosterone (Users who have previously claimed that you can/should not compare hormones to Testosterone must forget that the comparison is the basis for Vida's Androgens and Anabolic Agents, the same book that most the 'internet gurus' will be quick to note in their own arguments).

In order to determine an appropriate comparison for the Androseries products to testosterone, Eric analyzed newer in-vivo and in-vitro studies concerning androgen receptor binding and what we know concerning various base information on anabolic agents found in Vida's Hersheberger assay/in-vivo studies on rats. The next step was to determine what rate of absorption can be expected in regards to these hormones, the addition of their respective esters and the inhibition of enzymes provided by our new liquavade carrier. There are many studies (I believe nearly 160 provided for AndroMass) available in our white pages that will demonstrate the various studies that were utilized int he calculation of these expected values. One we had a reasonable idea of how the absorption would be, we were able to compare that to what has been demonstrated in studies in terms of hormonal activity (Bio-assay/Vida), and come to the conclusion of what can be expected from these products.

In terms of you condescending comments regarding our usage of A:A:E ratios, these ratios were provided on the basis of what has been demonstrated in bio assay studies and Vida, and allowed us to formulate a hybrid equivalence claim. In terms of the importance of estrogen in the matter, you seem to be concentrating the most extreme portion of the equivalence, in which there is relatively (in comparison to testosterone/DHT/etc), less weight in regards to this equivalency. There is a heavily growing movement in endocrinology to look at a TRT patient in terms of total hormonal activity, and not just of testosterone, and this is within good reason. There is overlap in activity between these hormones that makes an understanding of the 'big picture' of androgenic/hormonal activity more relevant than merely measuring just the individual hormones.

Although I find your knowledge on hormones to be rather weak, given posts you have made that I have had the pleasure of reading, and believe this thread was a weak attempt at a call out, I am more than happy to point you in the direction of our white pages an online copies of Vida's text. If you are interested, please send me a PM. I am always happy to talk to you Husker.

Wishing you the best at all times,

-HTS

Let me sum up the responses to this post:

 

[ryansm]

I asked you 5 times and YOU still havent told me if you use just androgens or estorgens and progestrones to get to 500, matt was the only one who could answer.

You obviously already knew the answer since we have posted it before and you bring it up again and again and again...no?

 

[ryansm]

Ya i agree to move on, your products have been proven to be effective so I will give you that, and ps to everyone yelling at me, i said it wasnt a bash thread.

Well i said say yes or no i think thats pretty clear but finally you admitted total hormonal environment. So by YOUR calculations i could have 400 of estrogen and 100 of progestrones and that would equal 500 mg of injectable test by YOUR method, thats all i wanted

You also employ methods like the two above in which case you are obvious once again in your agenda...a flattering post followed by more hate spewed bs that is being fed to you by someone in which you are incapable of understanding fully.

 

[ryansm]

I would still 100% of the time take real legit test from the highly respected private lab I use, real AAS>everything. A physique isnt built on just how much weight you gain, that where the similarity ends between test and this stuff..is "weight" gain.

Do explain "weight" gain please...your statement is confusing...? Oh and what constitutes "real"

 

[machorox123]

Let me sum up the responses to this post:

<img src="http://anabolicminds.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=60221"/>

Lmao Dude your getting reps when I get home..I wonder if anyone can ever shut him the hell up

 

[apoxtle]

all i know about andro mass is it worked and worked well for me. if i could afford it i'd buy a couple more bottles. i'd like to try the latest version. i'm interested to try bulk sometime too.

 

[apoxtle]

the dudes from pp were very helpful and informative when i had questions as well. i respect their company.

 

[ITW]

Pp reps: 1
Husker: 0

 

[handcannon7]

Do explain "weight" gain please...your statement is confusing...? Oh and what constitutes "real"

That weight gain isnt all that matters, weight doesn mean muscle. And the fact that if youre trying to build a physique real (as in illegal, theyre better)aas will provide better overall physique benefits.

 

[MattPorter]

Man..I cant believe this thread is still going back and forth lol

Husk, estrogen is rather minute in the total conversions being accounted for and the test-like effects are within the 5a-androstanediol androstenedione (diol),4ad /dione, minimal testosterone and minimal estrogen conversion in the grand scheme of things.....

But I am sure he added the test and estro conversion into the total equation.

500 mgs of estrogen is definitely nothing in the realm of being compared to testosterone -- 4ad, androstene, etc... sure I can buy that....

-Matt

 

[AaronJP1]

I'm about to pass out a couple rep points in this thread.

 

[ryansm]

That weight gain isnt all that matters, weight doesn mean muscle. And the fact that if youre trying to build a physique real (as in illegal, theyre better)aas will provide better overall physique benefits.

Well of course "weight" gain isn't all that matters what does that have to do with this discussion...? His opinion is wrong and shows a poor understanding imo. Are you saying SD isn't real and you can't build a "physique"? What is meant by "physique"? I know of two current logs being ran right now with the AndroSeries by two competitive bb'ers and they're "physiques" look quite "real." This argument is old hat and involves much more than the AAS itself, and the lack of understanding hormones in general is obvious in this thread.

 

[machorox123]

That weight gain isnt all that matters, weight doesn mean muscle. And the fact that if youre trying to build a physique real (as in illegal, theyre better)aas will provide better overall physique benefits.

Just because a substance is illegal doesn't make it any better.. SD is an active steroid but completely legal (for now).. The only difference is it is just labeled as a supplement

 

[handcannon7]

Well of course "weight" gain isn't all that matters what does that have to do with this discussion...? His opinion is wrong and shows a poor understanding imo. Are you saying SD isn't real and you can't build a "physique"? What is meant by "physique"? I know of two current logs being ran right now with the AndroSeries by two competitive bb'ers and they're "physiques" look quite "real." This argument is old hat and involves much more than the AAS itself, and the lack of understanding hormones in general is obvious in this thread.

No offense but these competitive bbers are wasting their money, given your products are pretty outrageously priced, 120-200$, that money is WAY better spent on more tren/mast/prop/NPP or towards legit kigs. SD is completely an active steroid, im referring to PH's and products like yours that will always be inferior to using injectables or high quality adrol/var/dbol, and if youre a bber looking for a pro card you arent going to be wasting money on this stuff, no offense. I wasnt referring to their physiques being "real" I was using real to describe injectables and illegal orals.
What the **** do you think I mean when I say "physique"? Are your products aimed at the general public who arent that serious about bodybuilding or are you aiming it at real bodybuilders? Because it seems like its just for the general public.

Just because a substance is illegal doesn't make it any better.. SD is an active steroid but completely legal (for now).. The only difference is it is just labeled as a supplement

SD is one of the very few exceptions, but that being said Id still take a very good adrol over it because the general feeling of **** you get on sdrol isnt worth it and the fact that it crushes your lipids worse than anything else does.

 

[ryansm]

No offense but these competitive bbers are wasting their money, given your products are pretty outrageously priced, 120-200$, that money is WAY better spent on more tren/mast/prop/NPP or towards legit kigs. SD is completely an active steroid, im referring to PH's and products like yours that will always be inferior to using injectables or high quality adrol/var/dbol, and if youre a bber looking for a pro card you arent going to be wasting money on this stuff, no offense. I wasnt referring to their physiques being "real" I was using real to describe injectables and illegal orals.
What the **** do you think I mean when I say "physique"? Are your products aimed at the general public who arent that serious about bodybuilding or are you aiming it at real bodybuilders? Because it seems like its just for the general public.

Who knows what you meant, your argument is typical go check their logs and decide on their progress, although I do not disagree entirely with your post, our products are for everyone btw.

 

[handcannon7]

Who knows what you meant, your argument is typical go check their logs and decide on their progress, although I do not disagree entirely with your post, our products are for everyone btw.

ill go check their logs, dont want to draw any conclusions yet.

 

[jbryand101b]

our products are for everyone btw.

coulnd't help myself. :lmao:

 

[Husker89]

i agree but he said injectable test is better than andro whatever, hands down.

Just because a substance is illegal doesn't make it any better.. SD is an active steroid but completely legal (for now).. The only difference is it is just labeled as a supplement

 

[Husker89]

HAHAHAHAHAHA

coulnd't help myself. :lmao:

 

[Husker89]

so last question, ny your reasoning real test(500)mgs could then be considered WAY more because of everything(dht estradiol) it breaks down into and with total hormonal activity would be welll over 500.

Man..I cant believe this thread is still going back and forth lol

Husk, estrogen is rather minute in the total conversions being accounted for and the test-like effects are within the 5a-androstanediol androstenedione (diol),4ad /dione, minimal testosterone and minimal estrogen conversion in the grand scheme of things.....

But I am sure he added the test and estro conversion into the total equation.

500 mgs of estrogen is definitely nothing in the realm of being compared to testosterone -- 4ad, androstene, etc... sure I can buy that....

-Matt

 

[ReyMan]

I'm so glad that forerunner labs has their equivalent to the androseries and it's very affordable.

Shout out to Royd for giving me a deal!

 

[Husker89]

never heard of it, how much is forerunnners labs product

I'm so glad that forerunner labs has their equivalent to the androseries and it's very affordable.

Shout out to Royd for giving me a deal!

 

[southsideguy]

I'm so glad that forerunner labs has their equivalent to the androseries and it's very affordable.

Shout out to Royd for giving me a deal!

Equivalent as it relates to what??

 

[WARBIRDWS6]

Equivalent as it relates to what??

the alphamass (1Dhea I believe) was VERY low dosed as compared to the AMv2 (originally the Alphamass had 50mg 1Dhea per 3 caps?), so by the time you got enough Mg amount to equal the AMv2 (150 mg 1Dhea and 150 4Dhea per 3 caps) you would be more than equivalent in price that is for sure! LOL ....not sure on the alphabulk? that I never looked into.....but I never could figure out the Mg amount difference? they both have super duper delivery systems...so its not that the alphamass was delivered any better and therefore it only needed 1/4 the dosage of the PP stuff....

 

[Royd The Noyd]

O lawd not this again. Yes they are both 4-DHEA enanthate products. Yes they are both good products. We have different strategies and uses for them. Husker89, I wouldn't worry about anabolic values calculated via vida results. I would look at how the product works in humans. Which from what I have seen people are usually happy with their AndroMass cycles.

P.S. Do you think Taylor improved his throwing mechanics this year? Or should we expect him to go frantic in the pocket like always and then throw a pic? #gohuskers

 

[jbryand101b]

maybe i'll get a bottle of alphamass and alpha bulk, stack them, and compare to orig andromass i ran.

the day i fall into a pile of money that is.

 

[Royd The Noyd]

maybe i'll get a bottle of alphamass and alpha bulk, stack them, and compare to orig andromass i ran.

the day i fall into a pile of money that is.

Too slow colbicide is sorta doing that already.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/203864-summer-fun-primordial.html

 

[WARBIRDWS6]

just seemed like the Mg amounts were very far apart.....I was going to use AMv3 with alphamass to supplement the 1Dhea back into the mix....but instead found some AMv2 to add with the AMv3....since the Mg amount of the 1Dhea was so much greater.....seemed 30-50mg per 3 caps was pretty low-dosed.

 

[WARBIRDWS6]

maybe i'll get a bottle of alphamass and alpha bulk, stack them, and compare to orig andromass i ran.

the day i fall into a pile of money that is.

forerunner is supposed to be the cheaper alternative by far.....so $$ is no excuse

 

[handcannon7]

forerunner is supposed to be the cheaper alternative by far.....so $$ is no excuse

Wanna know a cheaper alternative to both with better results?

Real test :O

 

[WARBIRDWS6]

Wanna know a cheaper alternative to both with better results?

Real test :O

yeah I know, trying to stay on the legal side over here in my older years....although I will be hitting up the doc for TRT possibly in the near future....so that is test + legal.......

 

[jbryand101b]

Too slow colbicide is sorta doing that already.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/203864-summer-fun-primordial.html

na, thats different than what i was talking about.

i ran andromass which at the time, contained 1-dhea eth & 4-dhea eth.

i was talking about stacking rec dosage of forerunner's 1-dhea e & 4-dhea e products to compare it with am.

 

[jbryand101b]

forerunner is supposed to be the cheaper alternative by far.....so $$ is no excuse

50 dollars for a bottle of alpha mass, and 50 for a bottle of alpha bulk, thats 100 bucks for a measily 4 week cycle, which with pp's am v2, was not enough time.

 

[HereToStudy]

na, thats different than what i was talking about.

i ran andromass which at the time, contained 1-dhea eth & 4-dhea eth.

i was talking about stacking rec dosage of forerunner's 1-dhea e & 4-dhea e products to compare it with am.

Desire for free product alert.

 

[jbryand101b]

nut hugger alert.
I think you said this last time I talked about forerunners products.

But seriously,
Na, I dont want free product, I know it works after using pp's stuff.

 

[Husker89]

dude you never cease to crack me up, HAHAHAA

maybe i'll get a bottle of alphamass and alpha bulk, stack them, and compare to orig andromass i ran.

the day i fall into a pile of money that is.

 

[HereToStudy]

nut hugger alert.
I think you said this last time I talked about forerunners products.

But seriously,
Na, I dont want free product, I know it works after using pp's stuff.

Possibly, i do like using that term.

...and I am just busting your balls.

 

[ryansm]

This thread is still going...

 

[MattPorter]

so last question, ny your reasoning real test(500)mgs could then be considered WAY more because of everything(dht estradiol) it breaks down into and with total hormonal activity would be welll over 500.

No.

The by-products dht and estrogen are the makeup of testosterone's total anabolism.

Take away the dht and estrogen and you have what? A result most likely being much less impressive since the androgenic nature is now taken away and the estrogen is not producing any estrogenic weight gain.

Like royd eluded to --- don't worry about that test equivalent claim that will be going out the door anyways and focus on user results and honest feedback.

-Matt

 

[HereToStudy]

No.

The by-products dht and estrogen are the makeup of testosterone's total anabolism.

Take away the dht and estrogen and you have what? A result most likely being much less impressive since the androgenic nature is now taken away and the estrogen is not producing any estrogenic weight gain.

Like royd eluded to --- don't worry about that test equivalent claim that will be going out the door anyways and focus on user results and honest feedback.

-Matt

But...but...clearly it is all estrogen, right?

:study:

 

[MattPorter]

But...but...clearly it is all estrogen, right?

:study:

You son of a .......

-mp

 

[Husker89]

i didnt say it was all estrogen i was saying how your method counts estrogen as having anabolic/androgenic effects, the amount is irrelevant, the relavant part is that you count it as test equivalency

But...but...clearly it is all estrogen, right?

:study: