No.. Matt and heretostudy are much smarter than I and if they can't explain it in a way that you can understand, how would I? Like I said prob time to move on and stop harassing PP reps
As I replied in your PM, any one with half a brain can look at the compounds, look into what they convert to, and see that this is not the case. So what is your point?So u could actually have no androgens but still claim you have 500mgs of injectable test or your product is equal to that b/c of Total hormonal accounting
Neither have you, for nearly your entire post history.didnt think you had anything smart to say, why dont you stop harassing me
Neither have you, for nearly your entire post history.
As I replied in your PM, any one with half a brain can look at the compounds, look into what they convert to, and see that this is not the case. So what is your point?
I just think your claim doesnt make sense, but you constantly have to try to bully me when im asking questions. And said it wasnt a bash thread
Husker, I am happy to see you are still interested in our products. My offer to provide you with a coupon is still on the table.
In terms of how we developed the 'equivalency' that is provided on our sales pages as well as our white papers, it is not that difficult to understand. The idea was to look at the totality of hormonal activity that occurs when a user administers testosterone, and compare that activity in terms of what we know about the administration of the DHEA products found in the androseries. This allows us to provide a comparison to the end user that gives a general idea of product expectations, and allows a comparison to be made between these hormones and testosterone (Users who have previously claimed that you can/should not compare hormones to Testosterone must forget that the comparison is the basis for Vida's Androgens and Anabolic Agents, the same book that most the 'internet gurus' will be quick to note in their own arguments).
In order to determine an appropriate comparison for the Androseries products to testosterone, Eric analyzed newer in-vivo and in-vitro studies concerning androgen receptor binding and what we know concerning various base information on anabolic agents found in Vida's Hersheberger assay/in-vivo studies on rats. The next step was to determine what rate of absorption can be expected in regards to these hormones, the addition of their respective esters and the inhibition of enzymes provided by our new liquavade carrier. There are many studies (I believe nearly 160 provided for AndroMass) available in our white pages that will demonstrate the various studies that were utilized int he calculation of these expected values. One we had a reasonable idea of how the absorption would be, we were able to compare that to what has been demonstrated in studies in terms of hormonal activity (Bio-assay/Vida), and come to the conclusion of what can be expected from these products.
In terms of you condescending comments regarding our usage of A:A:E ratios, these ratios were provided on the basis of what has been demonstrated in bio assay studies and Vida, and allowed us to formulate a hybrid equivalence claim. In terms of the importance of estrogen in the matter, you seem to be concentrating the most extreme portion of the equivalence, in which there is relatively (in comparison to testosterone/DHT/etc), less weight in regards to this equivalency. There is a heavily growing movement in endocrinology to look at a TRT patient in terms of total hormonal activity, and not just of testosterone, and this is within good reason. There is overlap in activity between these hormones that makes an understanding of the 'big picture' of androgenic/hormonal activity more relevant than merely measuring just the individual hormones.
Although I find your knowledge on hormones to be rather weak, given posts you have made that I have had the pleasure of reading, and believe this thread was a weak attempt at a call out, I am more than happy to point you in the direction of our white pages an online copies of Vida's text. If you are interested, please send me a PM. I am always happy to talk to you Husker.
Wishing you the best at all times,
-HTS
You obviously already knew the answer since we have posted it before and you bring it up again and again and again...no?I asked you 5 times and YOU still havent told me if you use just androgens or estorgens and progestrones to get to 500, matt was the only one who could answer.
Ya i agree to move on, your products have been proven to be effective so I will give you that, and ps to everyone yelling at me, i said it wasnt a bash thread.
You also employ methods like the two above in which case you are obvious once again in your agenda...a flattering post followed by more hate spewed bs that is being fed to you by someone in which you are incapable of understanding fully.Well i said say yes or no i think thats pretty clear but finally you admitted total hormonal environment. So by YOUR calculations i could have 400 of estrogen and 100 of progestrones and that would equal 500 mg of injectable test by YOUR method, thats all i wanted
Do explain "weight" gain please...your statement is confusing...? Oh and what constitutes "real"I would still 100% of the time take real legit test from the highly respected private lab I use, real AAS>everything. A physique isnt built on just how much weight you gain, that where the similarity ends between test and this stuff..is "weight" gain.
Lmao Dude your getting reps when I get home..I wonder if anyone can ever shut him the hell upLet me sum up the responses to this post:
<img src="http://anabolicminds.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=60221"/>
That weight gain isnt all that matters, weight doesn mean muscle. And the fact that if youre trying to build a physique real (as in illegal, theyre better)aas will provide better overall physique benefits.Do explain "weight" gain please...your statement is confusing...? Oh and what constitutes "real"
Well of course "weight" gain isn't all that matters what does that have to do with this discussion...? His opinion is wrong and shows a poor understanding imo. Are you saying SD isn't real and you can't build a "physique"? What is meant by "physique"? I know of two current logs being ran right now with the AndroSeries by two competitive bb'ers and they're "physiques" look quite "real." This argument is old hat and involves much more than the AAS itself, and the lack of understanding hormones in general is obvious in this thread.That weight gain isnt all that matters, weight doesn mean muscle. And the fact that if youre trying to build a physique real (as in illegal, theyre better)aas will provide better overall physique benefits.
Just because a substance is illegal doesn't make it any better.. SD is an active steroid but completely legal (for now).. The only difference is it is just labeled as a supplementThat weight gain isnt all that matters, weight doesn mean muscle. And the fact that if youre trying to build a physique real (as in illegal, theyre better)aas will provide better overall physique benefits.
No offense but these competitive bbers are wasting their money, given your products are pretty outrageously priced, 120-200$, that money is WAY better spent on more tren/mast/prop/NPP or towards legit kigs. SD is completely an active steroid, im referring to PH's and products like yours that will always be inferior to using injectables or high quality adrol/var/dbol, and if youre a bber looking for a pro card you arent going to be wasting money on this stuff, no offense. I wasnt referring to their physiques being "real" I was using real to describe injectables and illegal orals.Well of course "weight" gain isn't all that matters what does that have to do with this discussion...? His opinion is wrong and shows a poor understanding imo. Are you saying SD isn't real and you can't build a "physique"? What is meant by "physique"? I know of two current logs being ran right now with the AndroSeries by two competitive bb'ers and they're "physiques" look quite "real." This argument is old hat and involves much more than the AAS itself, and the lack of understanding hormones in general is obvious in this thread.
SD is one of the very few exceptions, but that being said Id still take a very good adrol over it because the general feeling of **** you get on sdrol isnt worth it and the fact that it crushes your lipids worse than anything else does.Just because a substance is illegal doesn't make it any better.. SD is an active steroid but completely legal (for now).. The only difference is it is just labeled as a supplement
Who knows what you meant, your argument is typical go check their logs and decide on their progress, although I do not disagree entirely with your post, our products are for everyone btw.No offense but these competitive bbers are wasting their money, given your products are pretty outrageously priced, 120-200$, that money is WAY better spent on more tren/mast/prop/NPP or towards legit kigs. SD is completely an active steroid, im referring to PH's and products like yours that will always be inferior to using injectables or high quality adrol/var/dbol, and if youre a bber looking for a pro card you arent going to be wasting money on this stuff, no offense. I wasnt referring to their physiques being "real" I was using real to describe injectables and illegal orals.
What the **** do you think I mean when I say "physique"? Are your products aimed at the general public who arent that serious about bodybuilding or are you aiming it at real bodybuilders? Because it seems like its just for the general public.
ill go check their logs, dont want to draw any conclusions yet.Who knows what you meant, your argument is typical go check their logs and decide on their progress, although I do not disagree entirely with your post, our products are for everyone btw.
Just because a substance is illegal doesn't make it any better.. SD is an active steroid but completely legal (for now).. The only difference is it is just labeled as a supplement
coulnd't help myself. :lmao:
Man..I cant believe this thread is still going back and forth lol
Husk, estrogen is rather minute in the total conversions being accounted for and the test-like effects are within the 5a-androstanediol androstenedione (diol),4ad /dione, minimal testosterone and minimal estrogen conversion in the grand scheme of things.....
But I am sure he added the test and estro conversion into the total equation.
500 mgs of estrogen is definitely nothing in the realm of being compared to testosterone -- 4ad, androstene, etc... sure I can buy that....
-Matt
I'm so glad that forerunner labs has their equivalent to the androseries and it's very affordable.
Shout out to Royd for giving me a deal!
Equivalent as it relates to what??I'm so glad that forerunner labs has their equivalent to the androseries and it's very affordable.
Shout out to Royd for giving me a deal!
the alphamass (1Dhea I believe) was VERY low dosed as compared to the AMv2 (originally the Alphamass had 50mg 1Dhea per 3 caps?), so by the time you got enough Mg amount to equal the AMv2 (150 mg 1Dhea and 150 4Dhea per 3 caps) you would be more than equivalent in price that is for sure! LOL ....not sure on the alphabulk? that I never looked into.....but I never could figure out the Mg amount difference? they both have super duper delivery systems...so its not that the alphamass was delivered any better and therefore it only needed 1/4 the dosage of the PP stuff....Equivalent as it relates to what??
Too slow colbicide is sorta doing that already.maybe i'll get a bottle of alphamass and alpha bulk, stack them, and compare to orig andromass i ran.
the day i fall into a pile of money that is.
forerunner is supposed to be the cheaper alternative by far.....so $$ is no excusemaybe i'll get a bottle of alphamass and alpha bulk, stack them, and compare to orig andromass i ran.
the day i fall into a pile of money that is.
Wanna know a cheaper alternative to both with better results?forerunner is supposed to be the cheaper alternative by far.....so $$ is no excuse
yeah I know, trying to stay on the legal side over here in my older years....although I will be hitting up the doc for TRT possibly in the near future....so that is test + legal.......Wanna know a cheaper alternative to both with better results?
Real test :O
na, thats different than what i was talking about.Too slow colbicide is sorta doing that already.
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/203864-summer-fun-primordial.html
50 dollars for a bottle of alpha mass, and 50 for a bottle of alpha bulk, thats 100 bucks for a measily 4 week cycle, which with pp's am v2, was not enough time.forerunner is supposed to be the cheaper alternative by far.....so $$ is no excuse
Desire for free product alert.na, thats different than what i was talking about.
i ran andromass which at the time, contained 1-dhea eth & 4-dhea eth.
i was talking about stacking rec dosage of forerunner's 1-dhea e & 4-dhea e products to compare it with am.
maybe i'll get a bottle of alphamass and alpha bulk, stack them, and compare to orig andromass i ran.
the day i fall into a pile of money that is.
Possibly, i do like using that term.nut hugger alert.
I think you said this last time I talked about forerunners products.
But seriously,
Na, I dont want free product, I know it works after using pp's stuff.
No.so last question, ny your reasoning real test(500)mgs could then be considered WAY more because of everything(dht estradiol) it breaks down into and with total hormonal activity would be welll over 500.
But...but...clearly it is all estrogen, right?No.
The by-products dht and estrogen are the makeup of testosterone's total anabolism.
Take away the dht and estrogen and you have what? A result most likely being much less impressive since the androgenic nature is now taken away and the estrogen is not producing any estrogenic weight gain.
Like royd eluded to --- don't worry about that test equivalent claim that will be going out the door anyways and focus on user results and honest feedback.
-Matt
But...but...clearly it is all estrogen, right?
:study:
But...but...clearly it is all estrogen, right?
:study:
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