How long it takes for Tren Ace to see results for cutting?

[ryan413]

I am currently at the end of Week 2 for Tren Ace (and Test Prop) for cutting with high-intensity training and an appropriate diet.

I was wondering what week can I start to see decreased body fat percentage?

 

[Nac]

I'd be asking why you're not already seeing decreased bodyfat percentage after 2 weeks regardless of tren. Tren won't magically break the law of thermodynamics, nor effectively turn a 100kcal deficit into a 500kcal deficit.

Of course, tren will have some impact on body composition. No argument there. But again, why haven't you seen a drop in bodyfat in those 2 weeks? Your calorie intake is likely still too high.

 

[Nac]

Maybe I'm a weird anomaly but when I start a cut, or make alterations during a cut, I typically can see the outcome of that within 4-5 days. So, a drop in bodyweight, decrease in waist circumference, etc. In other words, a drop in bodyfat. If I didn't notice any changes within 2 weeks, I'd know something is wrong (I'm still eating too much).

 

[ryan413]

Lunch: protein shake with egg whites
After Workout: protein shake with egg whites
Dinner: Omelette with 4 eggs

Thats all Im eating mate

 

[KvanH]

Maybe I'm a weird anomaly but when I start a cut, or make alterations during a cut, I typically can see the outcome of that within 4-5 days. So, a drop in bodyweight, decrease in waist circumference, etc. In other words, a drop in bodyfat. If I didn't notice any changes within 2 weeks, I'd know something is wrong (I'm still eating too much).

I agree. I don't see difference on the mirror every week, but some indications, like the ones you mentioned, should be seen at every week or two. I'm guessing unrealistic expectations is what's going on here.

 

[Nac]

Lunch: protein shake with egg whites
After Workout: protein shake with egg whites
Dinner: Omelette with 4 eggs

Thats all Im eating mate

On the surface that doesn't seem like many calories at all, assuming your protein shake isn't loaded with oats and peanut butter etc.

How long have you been eating that? And I mean literally that, no cheats, no snacks, etc.

 

[ryan413]

On the surface that doesn't seem like many calories at all, assuming your protein shake isn't loaded with oats and peanut butter etc.

How long have you been eating that? And I mean literally that, no cheats, no snacks, etc.

Been doing that for a month or two. NO cheats!

 

[johnny412]

I am currently at the end of Week 2 for Tren Ace (and Test Prop) for cutting with high-intensity training and an appropriate diet.

I was wondering what week can I start to see decreased body fat percentage?

totally random individual independant you will see it when you see it...

 

[KvanH]

Been doing that for a month or two. NO cheats!

Sounds like you've nuked your metabolism (just a guess with the information at hand). That's a very weird diet, or at least to me. No vegetables? I can understand going ketogenic, even though I don't like it myself. Keeping enough carbs in when cutting is the most beneficial diet tweak I've made for myself along the years of trying different things.

How is your energy and mood? Have you cut weight before and with this similar diet?

 

[Nac]

Been doing that for a month or two. NO cheats!

What is your height/weight?

If you've been eating that for a month or 2, you must've seen some weight decrease. Unless you're a midget and eating at maintanence.

My suspicion is IF you've been eating that for 6 or so weeks, diligently, and you lost bodyweight initially, you need a diet break. Making some assumptions, you can't sustain that little amount of calories for "long" periods. Crash diets, where you drop calories intake by a large amount off the cuff, should only be run for short periods (2 weeks or so) and tend to require refeeds.

 

[johnny412]

Lunch: protein shake with egg whites
After Workout: protein shake with egg whites
Dinner: Omelette with 4 eggs

Thats all Im eating mate

i dont believe you if you have been eating only that for 2 weeks with no results. you are snacking or drinking alot of sugar...

 

[ryan413]

What is your height/weight?

If you've been eating that for a month or 2, you must've seen some weight decrease. Unless you're a midget and eating at maintanence.

My suspicion is IF you've been eating that for 6 or so weeks, diligently, and you lost bodyweight initially, you need a diet break. Making some assumptions, you can't sustain that little amount of calories for "long" periods. Crash diets, where you drop calories intake by a large amount off the cuff, should only be run for short periods (2 weeks or so) and tend to require refeeds.

5'4
65kgs

I have not lost any weight

 

[Nac]

Sounds like you've nuked your metabolism (just a guess with the information at hand). That's a very weird diet, or at least to me. No vegetables? I can understand going ketogenic, even though I don't like it myself. Keeping enough carbs in when cutting is the most beneficial diet tweak I've made for myself along the years of trying different things.

How is your energy and mood? Have you cut weight before and with this similar diet?

It looks very similar to Lyle McDonalds Extreme Rapid Fat Loss diet where you eat pretty much your daily protein intake and that's it. But it's only intended for 4 day stints lol.

 

[ryan413]

Sounds like you've nuked your metabolism (just a guess with the information at hand). That's a very weird diet, or at least to me. No vegetables? I can understand going ketogenic, even though I don't like it myself. Keeping enough carbs in when cutting is the most beneficial diet tweak I've made for myself along the years of trying different things.

How is your energy and mood? Have you cut weight before and with this similar diet?

Energy and mood are normal. I have cut with kind of a similar diet and lost 4% bf last year from feb to mar

I don't know why its been 2 weeks and I haven't seen a decrease in bf

 

[ryan413]

It looks very similar to Lyle McDonalds Extreme Rapid Fat Loss diet where you eat pretty much your daily protein intake and that's it. But it's only intended for 4 day stints lol.

Is there a reason why I have not seen any visual results or decrease in bf?

 

[ryan413]

i dont believe you if you have been eating only that for 2 weeks with no results. you are snacking or drinking alot of sugar...

I don't really like eating and thus, I have not been snacking at all or very low consumption of sugar

 

[Nac]

Is there a reason why I have not seen any visual results or decrease in bf?

You started this diet 1 to 2 months ago. Most people know exactly when they start something like this, but oh well.

What were you eating prior to starting this?

Have you lost ANY bodyweight since starting this diet? Not just the last 2 weeks, but since starting this diet?

If you can't honestly and accurately answer these questions, then to be frank I don't think you are prepared knowledge-wise to properly undertake a diet let alone run tren. You should be able to inform us of your calories intake, macros, bodyweight changes over the last X-weeks, Waist circumference changes, etc. These are basic, fundamental metrics. If you don't know these...you should.

 

[Nac]

OP, assuming you're not trolling...

Knowledge is power. Numbers are knowledge, of yourself. So calorie intake, TDEE, etc. Without these you're just guessing and hoping. And throwing a drug into the mix to fix something (fuk knows what else you're on, or not...are you on testosterone too?)

A calorie deficit can be -25kcal....or -250kcal....or -2500kcal. You just saying "I'm eating in a calorie deficit" is ambiguous to the point of being meaningless.

Numbers.

 

[CasperKValentine]

Whoa! 65 kilograms? At 143 lbs do you even have any fat to lose? And tren at that weight? You do realize that tren is one of the strongest anabolic steroids there is. And that is really all you are eating that's absurd. I'm not trying to be mean but you are going down the wrong path here brother.

 

[CasperKValentine]

How old are you?

 

[gphagan1]

That kind of diet could literally make you malnourished over too long a period of time. Then you add in Tren which requires not only the protein, but some carbs, and much more vitamins and minerals, that you can’t be getting. Man this sounds like your setting yourself up to attack your health on the way to losing fat. There is so much good information out there on dropping fat healthy without needing Tren. You might want to think about getting off Tren and research healthy diets.
But like what has already been said, odd that you would have much fat at only 143 lbs, even at only 5’4” tall.

 

[gphagan1]

The National BMI is many times not an accurate tool, because it doesn’t take everything in to account.
Example: This fighter is 5’4” 145 lbs
Obviously doesn’t have a high BMI

Why BMI is inaccurate and misleading

Body Mass Index (BMI) is not a very accurate measurement for determining whether somebody is of normal weight, overweight or obese, researchers say.

www.medicalnewstoday.com

 

[KvanH]

The National BMI is many times not an accurate tool, because it doesn’t take everything in to account.
Example: This fighter is 5’4” 145 lbs
Obviously doesn’t have a high BMI
View attachment 213463

Why BMI is inaccurate and misleading

Body Mass Index (BMI) is not a very accurate measurement for determining whether somebody is of normal weight, overweight or obese, researchers say.

www.medicalnewstoday.com

Also, Brimage weighs at least 10-20 lbs more than the 145 lbs, where he fights.

 

[gphagan1]

Also, Brimage weighs at least 10-20 lbs more than the 145 lbs, where he fights.

Yeah I did leave that out.
I meant at weigh in.
Only reason I posted that though was to point out the BMI doctors use can be off with someone that’s in shape.

 

[KvanH]

Yeah I did leave that out.
I meant at weigh in.
Only reason I posted that though was to point out the BMI doctors use can be off with someone that’s in shape.

Yeah, the BMI doesn't tell anything on trained individuals. We don't know anything about OP's body comp though. I think you can be fat or shredded at 5'4" and 145 lbs. One would hope someone to be well versed on training and nutrition, when taking the step to add Tren though, but you know..

 

[Romac]

On Tren or no Tren, I see weightloss within one or two days of starting a cut, and almost everyday until the cut ends. I only do 30 minutes of daily cardio bulking or cutting. Of course it takes longer to reduce caliper measurements, but IF you really are in a deficit, you can easily drop 1% in a week. Throw out your calculator, and eat less. The scale doesn't lie...unless, of course, you're using it to measure bodyfat, then it's always a lie.

 

[Romac]

I would expect to have some results at 2 weeks with ace but if you lost 1-2lb of fat and gained 1-2lb of muscle, you might see no difference on the scale and notice no difference how you look. But that would be a significant transformation for 2 weeks, especially the first 2.

But that would just be more evidence that he's not actually in a deficit. Zero gains are possible in a true deficit. At least zero gains of fat or muscle...water, yes. Recomp is possible in very fat people because they get their base calories by calculating what is required to maintain 40lbs of fat. The 175lb man inside the 250lb body is basing his maintenance calories on a 250lbs man, so he's actually still in a large surplus.

 

[SkRaw85]

If that has been your diet for weeks there is a good possibility you are dead. I don’t believe ghosts can fluctuate body weight.

 

[Nac]

Throw out your calculator, and eat less.

That was my first conclusion as well. But given it looks like he's eating well under 1500kcal a day, and has been for nearly 2 months...he probably needs to refeed/diet break and eat at maintanence for a couple of weeks.

And by the sound of it part of his problem is that he never picked up a calculator to begin with.

 

[Romac]

That was my first conclusion as well. But given it looks like he's eating well under 1500kcal a day, and has been for nearly 2 months...he probably needs to refeed/diet break and eat at maintanence for a couple of weeks.

And by the sound of it part of his problem is that he never picked up a calculator to begin with.

I'd have to assume he's lying, or delusional about his actual intake. There is no metabolic magic that stops weight loss because of starvation. Auschwitz prisoners didn't stop losing weight because they cut calories too hard, too fast.

 

[Romac]

The National BMI is many times not an accurate tool, because it doesn’t take everything in to account.

Why BMI is inaccurate and misleading

Body Mass Index (BMI) is not a very accurate measurement for determining whether somebody is of normal weight, overweight or obese, researchers say.

www.medicalnewstoday.com

Yeah man it was funny when my new 145lb doctor started talking to me about maintaining a healthier bmi. I lifted up my shirt to show him my abs, and he **** a brick. 5'10" 215lbs @ 13% bodyfat, with a pretty clear four-pack. I am technically obese with a BMI of 30.8.

 

[KvanH]

I'd have to assume he's lying, or delusional about his actual intake. There is no metabolic magic that stops weight loss because of starvation. Auschwitz prisoners didn't stop losing weight because they cut calories too hard, too fast.

That's true, but metabolism can slow down considerably. I've seen cases, where someone has been eating too little and had their weight loss stall and when more food is added, their weight has started to go down. But yeah anyway this whole thread is weird with the odd diet and Tren and no weight loss in 1-2 months.

 

[Nac]

I'd have to assume he's lying, or delusional about his actual intake. There is no metabolic magic that stops weight loss because of starvation. Auschwitz prisoners didn't stop losing weight because they cut calories too hard, too fast.

Yes, that's true, but your hyperbole overlooks the fact that as bodybuilders we very much do NOT want to get to literal starvation levels of calorie intake because we want to also preserve as much muscle mass as possible. Meaning, we need to be much more strategic and careful with our cuts. So if this guys calorie intake is accurate, he won't be able to reduce it much further.

The idea of a diet break is in part to get leptin levels back up; crash diets like what OP is doing are unsustainable for longer periods simply because they're unhealthy, and we can only go so low before lean mass retention becomes a concern, and skewed metabolic hormones make further fat loss (and not lean tissue loss) extremely difficult.

 

[Romac]

Yes, that's true, but your hyperbole overlooks the fact that as bodybuilders we very much do NOT want to get to literal starvation levels of calorie intake because we want to also preserve as much muscle mass as possible. Meaning, we need to be much more strategic and careful with our cuts. So if this guys calorie intake is accurate, he won't be able to reduce it much further.

The idea of a diet break is in part to get leptin levels back up; crash diets like what OP is doing are unsustainable for longer periods simply because they're unhealthy, and we can only go so low before lean mass retention becomes a concern, and skewed metabolic hormones make further fat loss (and not lean tissue loss) extremely difficult.

I did the a similar crash diet decades ago. I was hovering just above 1k calories (at 5'10"), mostly protein with a tiny bit of carbs and fat. But I also lost 28lbs in two months, and the mirror showed it. Two months is the absolute longest I'd do something like that since it's obviously not sustainable, and fat free mass will eventually be lost. When you're not lying to yourself about your diet, two months @1200 calories looks something like this... (ps this was way before I touched any peds/aas)

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

i think NAC nailed it. your time on this diet is up. refeed until your resting metabolic rate increases into the normal range.

to do this you will need to take your temp as you wake up while you're still in bed in the morning. this is tedious but it will truely tell you if you are "able" to burn fat. I can't recall the exact number. but if you are not somewhere above 96 degrees, you should return to overfeeding for a few days until your resting temp is in range.


here is a generalized discussion of rmr and how to properly calculate your intakes in reference to your rate.
Resting Metabolic Rate: Basal Metabolic Rate Calculation from ACE (acefitness.org)

 

[johnny412]

Sure but from the sounds of it the OP is not an elite MMA athlete and probably has a more normal fat/muscle distribution.

nah

 

[johnny412]

I guess him being retarded for wanting to lose fat he doesn't have is a better explanation

sure starscream

 

[KvanH]

Sure but from the sounds of it the OP is not an elite MMA athlete and probably has a more normal fat/muscle distribution.

The point was that the BMI alone doesn't have much value and none, when someone lifts. But like I said, I too think it's possible for a person with that height and weight to have some fat to lose. Although you would hope, that someone taking Tren to have a little different stats, if there's need to lose fat.

 

[gphagan1]

Clinically BMI has value (it is used in every medical chart in every hospital) but as a clinician looking at overall health you have to understand there will be outliers. And even with the outliers, extra mass is hard on the health weather it's muscle or fat... it is associated with sleep apnea, heart failure, embolisms etc regardless of bf%. But that's besides the point, what BMI gives us here in this case is a tool so show that for his height he's a little on the heavy side and it's not inconceivable that he may have some fat to lose for cosmetic purposes. Only he knows if that's the case and he seems to be saying it is.

Funny you bring all this information on health and BMI, but yet you’re telling OP advice on using Tren to help cut fat, which is very unhealthy. You really like to argue….that’s obviously more important to you, to win an argument, than to give good healthy advice.
And I’m sure you have a come back Mr Got to Get the last word in……….

 

[KvanH]

To help you understand, BMI was only brought in as a tool to show he's a little heavy for his height and given a normal fat/muscle distribution it's not nonsense for him to want to recomp.

The whole thing about health and BMI came about because more than one person was saying "BMI alone doesn't have much value and none, when someone lifts" and clinically it does, it absolutely does. So that had to be corrected. But so far as BMI and leanness goes there are outliers, others posted them. This doesn't appear to be an example.

Well, to be precise, you brought the BMI in, saying his BMI brings him to be near overweight. Which really doesn't have much value on estimating wether one has fat to loose or not, on people who have built muscle mass. And it's to be expected, that he has, as he's on BB forum and taking Tren. If BMI chart can be found on hospital walls or on public restroom wall, makes no difference. Like I said, I agree that OP very well can have fat to lose, but BMI is not a valid tool to estimate, wether he has or not. That's all

 

[johnny412]

Yes I brought the BMI in, because I read "Whoa! 65 kilograms? At 143 lbs do you even have any fat to lose?" and "odd that you would have much fat at only 143 lbs, even at only 5’4” tall."

I agree it would be better if he had posted caliper measurements, bodpod results, or even a picture but we just had his height and weight and all you can do with that is BMI. And according to BMI he's a little on the heavy side for his 5'4" height. You're assuming that since he's even posting here he must be in shape and have a fit, uncommonly muscular body. I am not making that assumption. He appears to be a tren newbie.

No studies? links? advice on now supplements or hi-tech? boy you are slippin