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Homosexual behaviour widespread in animals according to new study

yeah, but see if I have to purposefully plan avoiding public streets with my children because of sexually inappropriate/obscene displays like this, or have to put up with an exchange like this

"Daddy, why is that woman not wearing pants or a shirt?"

"Shut up, its not a woman, its Matt from RPN, don't wave"

I feel that my right of use of public places is being preempted by something that doesn't belong in a public place, and that children shouldn't be exposed to.

First, that was funny as hell!!

Second, I understand where you are coming from. I went on a vacation a few yearsw ago to Cape Cod, and went to dinner in Provincetown. If anyone knows provincetown it makes new hope pa. look like a biker convention. Anyway, there was a parade at night, and I must admit to finding it more comical than offensive. Watching this monster of a guy, dressed as a woman in a thong riding a scooter, was friggin hilarious. Gross? not really, as you said, not interesting.

In terms of with my daughter present, since I live 10 minutes from New Hope Pa (major homosexual population) she has already been exposed to it, good or bad. She has no ill reaction to it at all. She understands that people are different from her, and from mommy and daddy.

Just as an aside, I dont find homosexual public displays of affection any more offensive to heterosexual ones. All of them are disturbing, of course it is different if it is Scarlett Johanson and Nadia Bjorlin. :yummy: Sorry, alittle side tracked
 
Just as an aside, I dont find homosexual public displays of affection any more offensive to heterosexual ones. All of them are disturbing, of course it is different if it is Scarlett Johanson and Nadia Bjorlin. :yummy: Sorry, alittle side tracked

yeah, holding hands is fine, a quick kiss, a hug goodbye etc, and makes no difference whether its a man and a woman or two men doing it. Making out on a park bench? thats different. I'm just not sure how a minority group's sexual preference manages to give them the right to violate local majority decency and obscenity standards in public, or their "right" to display sexual activities in public outweighs my right to publicly say that its offensive and disgusting and shouldn't be seen in public.
 
I wonder if this behaviour "developed" in response to a wide discrepancy in availability of mates. Sexual energy has to be dissipated somewhere, somehow.

I'd be interested in a stud of the rates of homosexuality in China as well.

Not to place the phenomena solely on behavioural adaptation, but perhaps actual brain changes in response to an external stressor.

That's always been my thoughts on it. Especially in high population areas, the more sexual outlets that don't result in procreation, the less stress on the available biomass and any other resources in the immediate area. So it'd be my guess, and a guess only based on only a little research I've seen, that everyone's born with varying degrees of homosexual tendencies which would only manifest as opportunities become more available and preferable to sex which might result in procreation.

Interestingly enough this would also explain the hostility toward homosexuals, even the denial and self hostility some go into about their sexuality, in small population areas where the general group itself isn't putting a strain on resources and procreation takes priority to make sure the population doesn't just disappear. It might also fit with gay guys who, once they get married and have kids, feel more free to go to the dirty hole. Once their genes are passed on they feel more free to satisfy preference over biological imperative.

Or maybe I'm just blowing crap out of my ass. But I guess it also explains why lefties like gays so much. Technically they contribute less to the population growth over time and so reduce future potential global warming by their very existance.
 
I know i'm in quite the minority with my feelings as i'm only concerned about the over the top public displays, and don't care in the least what is done in a bedroom. 2 men, 2 women, alternate combinations including midget, whatever. Just not in public, and don't try and ram it down my throat either figuratively or literally :) For me its not that homosexuality is wrong or right, but that the public displays are distasteful, base and classless.

Maybe you're in the minority with that view, but I'm there with you. What you're missing though is that every political movement goes through an 'in your face' phase that some have trouble letting go of. I know gay guys who get sickened by such public displays. My friend Pete's got a rainbow sticker on his car and pretty much seems to draw the line there because he hates the stereotypes.

He is a great decorator though. Impeccable taste.
 
HAHAHA... oh man AE14... you just keep humping that cow huh? -Metaphor

You want to utilize the science of animals to prove your point about humans? I just want to clear that up. Validating your stance with a male dog sniffing another male dogs ass?

Adams
 
Oh, and just so you know, I am not on a computer but a few hours a day. So if you post something up, it is not likely I will see it for a long time.

Adams
 
What you're missing though is that every political movement goes through an 'in your face' phase that some have trouble letting go of.

oh I understand that for sure, however I don't understand how someone's "right" to wear assless chaps and shout "we're queer and we're here" outweighs Zero V's right to be standing there and shout "You're a hideous fag and going to hell" as both of them are expressing positions best kept private - sexual preference and religious preference :)

My 13 year old daughter knows that i'd be supportive if her life takes her where she falls in love with a woman rather than a man. Anyone should be able to understand that love is such a complex emotion that we can't control who we love. Does loving someone have to mean having sex with them? No, but it can, and if your life plan doesn't necessarily include children then what difference does it make? You also can't control who or what types of people you are sexually attracted to, look at just what in women has been considered most attractive over the last 100 years in american culture and how much it changes back and forth..

You can however control how you act in public places.

If you think about it, likely I have more in common in terms of preferences, interests etc with you or mullet than I do with my wife (well, maybe not mullet since he's canadian and they are all ****ing crazy), and in some ways have relationships that are as emotionally fulfilling with men as the relationship with my wife. However continuation of our species was important to me, and raising children is more emotionally satisfying/harrowing than any other experience can be in my opinion. Its the only way we can achieve immortality as far as I can see it, and to paraphrase Zero V "if you put all the feather duster in ass fags on one island, and all the roll your own tampon kickstarting the vibrator dykes on another, in 1 generation you'd have 2 empty islands" :)
 
oh I understand that for sure, however I don't understand how someone's "right" to wear assless chaps and shout "we're queer and we're here" outweighs Zero V's right to be standing there and shout "You're a hideous fag and going to hell" as both of them are expressing positions best kept private - sexual preference and religious preference :)

just to continue to expand on this, are any of you who accept and approve of the gay pride parades (note the difference between accept and approve vs tolerate :)) also as accepting of a KKK or White Power parade?
 
just to continue to expand on this, are any of you who accept and approve of the gay pride parades (note the difference between accept and approve vs tolerate :)) also as accepting of a KKK or White Power parade?

Wow... little to far fetched there tanto. Gay pride parades in my eyes are silly, but that is my opinion to project. I do not like or dislike Gay pride parades, I personally do not care. KKK/White Power parades breed hate. While both have a freedom to express their own viewpoints, I believe White Power parades demean the social fabric we have sewn over the years.

Adams
 
Wow... little to far fetched there tanto. Gay pride parades in my eyes are silly, but that is my opinion to project. I do not like or dislike Gay pride parades, I personally do not care. KKK/White Power parades breed hate. While both have a freedom to express their own viewpoints, I believe White Power parades demean the social fabric we have sewn over the years.

Adams

Either people have the right to publicly express their beliefs or not. You finding their beliefs distasteful shouldn't affect that. White power parades don't demean our social fabric any more than most of the music or entertainment industries do on a daily basis.
 
Yes, but immediately above this we see, "Dolphins have been known engage in same-sex interactions to facilitate group bonding", something I mentioned previously. As well, the full-text goes on to describe a wide range of homoerotic behavior, irrespective of sexual preference, as conferring a wide-range of survival benefits for the species. The albatross example seems to be the red herring (no pun intended) in terms of the homosexual behavior, in terms of only exhibiting same-sex pair bonding without sexual behavior.
I was under the impression that we were a species of higher intelligence and consciousness. Equating our social or sexual or even survival behaviors with those of animals, again, for me, denegrates my value and position as a species above that of an animal.
 
Either people have the right to publicly express their beliefs or not. You finding their beliefs distasteful shouldn't affect that. White power parades don't demean our social fabric any more than most of the music or entertainment industries do on a daily basis.

While maybe the intention of White Power is in their own opinion, you cannot contest that it does not erode our social fabric. Also you are contesting entertainment and music industries as if the two wrongs idea is actually right. This isn't a point your finger and say "Well they did it." I believe that the music industry is the erosion of the urban culture, but that is here nor there, we are ignoring the glaring personal choice.

I never said they should have the right to a white power parade, i just said I disagree with their intentions and thoughts. The minute they infringe upon another, then there is a problem. Step on my lawn and you are getting shot, I have no tolerance for hate propaganda.

Adams
 
HAHAHA... oh man AE14... you just keep humping that cow huh? -Metaphor

You want to utilize the science of animals to prove your point about humans? I just want to clear that up. Validating your stance with a male dog sniffing another male dogs ass?

Adams

Wait, I believe the reference I made was about what is natural and what isnt. Thus showing homosexuality in nature shows it is therefore natural


Thanks :)
 
Wait, I believe the reference I made was about what is natural and what isnt. Thus showing homosexuality in nature shows it is therefore natural


Thanks :)

Natural for whom? Cause in the animal kingdom it is completely natural to tear apart your own species if they enter your territory.

And?

Adams
 
Natural for whom? Cause in the animal kingdom it is completely natural to tear apart your own species if they enter your territory.

And?

Adams

Once again my friend the point eludes you. I will try one more time. On many ocassions I have had discussions here about how homosexuality is not natural as you dont see it in nature. So, in response to that, I supplied support for my perspective that it is in fact natural as it occurs in nature.
Hope that this clarifies it
 
Once again my friend the point eludes you. I will try one more time. On many ocassions I have had discussions here about how homosexuality is not natural as you dont see it in nature. So, in response to that, I supplied support for my perspective that it is in fact natural as it occurs in nature.
Hope that this clarifies it

That is not a discussion we have had... but it seems that my point has eluded you as well. Since it is natural for beasts to kill each other without regard, should we? If we are to relegate everything in nature to homosapiens, where do we end? Should we throw **** at each other as well? Basing human nature on animal nature is kind of asinine.

Adams
 
That is not a discussion we have had... but it seems that my point has eluded you as well. Since it is natural for beasts to kill each other without regard, should we? If we are to relegate everything in nature to homosapiens, where do we end? Should we throw **** at each other as well? Basing human nature on animal nature is kind of asinine.

Adams

you and I are not arguing the same points.


I do however understand where you are coming from, and if we got drunk enough we might end up throwing **** at each other :)

However, many here have continually stated it is not found in nature, so I wanted to make sure they knew they were wrong.


BTW, no one has commented on my Nadia Bjorlin pic? Are you all blind, or has this thread had an unintended affect?
 
Beauty is beauty, and its not difficult to understand people finding certain specimens of their own sex attractive.

I have to say that although when younger lesbian porn was interesting as i've aged porn that has more than 1 man or more than 1 woman is nowhere near as entertaining as 1 man 1 woman porn (assuming of course attractiveness of the people involved)
 
You can however control how you act in public places.

Couldn't agree more. But the courts have decided I believe that as long as the gist of it is political, it passes. My belief is we should shame such people into behaving decently rather than trying to shut them down legally. While I don't think I'll ever need to exercise my right to wear assless chaps in public for this or that purpose, I don't think it's something that necessarilly needs to be limited. You never know.

just to continue to expand on this, are any of you who accept and approve of the gay pride parades (note the difference between accept and approve vs tolerate ) also as accepting of a KKK or White Power parade?

Yes, except those crazy ****ers who do it at people's funerals, which I think can be attacked from a property right perspective. They're paying for the plot and the time to lay their loved ones to rest, it's no stretch to say people standing within view with signs saying "ALL <INSERT HATED GROUP> DESERVE TO DIE AND ROT IN HELL!" are interfering with that end.

Otherwise, disgusted as I am by most of those groups, I do accept their right to parade. Doesn't mean I accept the message overall, though I do think white pride parades are a little less distasteful, mostly because I think specifically white Judeo-Christian western males need a little pride and kick in the ass to get them to stop letting the rest of the planet lay the blame for all their ills at their, or more honestly our, feet.
 
you and I are not arguing the same points.


I do however understand where you are coming from, and if we got drunk enough we might end up throwing **** at each other :)

However, many here have continually stated it is not found in nature, so I wanted to make sure they knew they were wrong.


BTW, no one has commented on my Nadia Bjorlin pic? Are you all blind, or has this thread had an unintended affect?

I don't even know who she is, or what I am to comment on. So I will let that with the others.

Shoot AE, if we got drunk, we would probably be friend... it is hard to debate on the interweb and disagree without being disagreeable.

Adams
 
While I don't think I'll ever need to exercise my right to wear assless chaps in public for this or that purpose, I don't think it's something that necessarilly needs to be limited. You never know.

If you ever do, you can just go to key west, its like that year round. Which is ok, at least you know what you are getting into when you go there. Well, or what you might be getting into if you have enough drinks.
 
I don't even know who she is, or what I am to comment on. So I will let that with the others.

Shoot AE, if we got drunk, we would probably be friend... it is hard to debate on the interweb and disagree without being disagreeable.

Adams

check the previous page for her pic. She is so damn hot :food:
 
Couldn't agree more. But the courts have decided I believe that as long as the gist of it is political, it passes. My belief is we should shame such people into behaving decently rather than trying to shut them down legally. While I don't think I'll ever need to exercise my right to wear assless chaps in public for this or that purpose, I don't think it's something that necessarilly needs to be limited. You never know.



Yes, except those crazy ****ers who do it at people's funerals, which I think can be attacked from a property right perspective. They're paying for the plot and the time to lay their loved ones to rest, it's no stretch to say people standing within view with signs saying "ALL <INSERT HATED GROUP> DESERVE TO DIE AND ROT IN HELL!" are interfering with that end.

Otherwise, disgusted as I am by most of those groups, I do accept their right to parade. Doesn't mean I accept the message overall, though I do think white pride parades are a little less distasteful, mostly because I think specifically white Judeo-Christian western males need a little pride and kick in the ass to get them to stop letting the rest of the planet lay the blame for all their ills at their, or more honestly our, feet.

This reminds me of the self proclaimed church who stood outside military funerals, disrupting them with signs saying they got what they deserved. But then comes in more freedom with the advent of the "Freedom Riders" who were all bikers who would visit military funerals upon request and provide a motorcade, and stood between these protesters and the funeral. Honestly brought a tear to my eye on that one.

Adams
 
I was under the impression that we were a species of higher intelligence and consciousness. Equating our social or sexual or even survival behaviors with those of animals, again, for me, denegrates my value and position as a species above that of an animal.

Then the more research you do into comparative psychology, my friend, the more you will feel degraded. Homo sapiens sapiens and a great number of higher order mammal species share a wide-range of behavioral traits, particularly in group politics and dynamics. The point was not a direct comparison of human to non-human homosexuality, though, but rather to establish that homosexuality, and specifically homoeroticism, are adaptive mechanisms that certainly further species-survival. As AE14 said, a predominant argument against homosexuality is its supposed unnatural context; to that end, the biological argument is beginning to square away quite nicely, and reveal it to be a natural behavior. In essence, I believe AE14 was attempting to remove the, "That's the way nature intended it" argument from the debate - as nature obviously intended dudes of every species to act in this manner - and discuss it more honestly in terms of social context. Too often those opposed to homosexuals have used the biology argument as an ill-informed crutch.
 
Mullet is dead on with my intentions. Just trying to show that it does show up in nature and frequently at that
 
Mullet is dead on with my intentions. Just trying to show that it does show up in nature and frequently at that

I'm still not sure about the frequently part, as the only direct mention of homoeroticism is in dolphin pods, and more of the rest of what they mention are the strictly social interactions which all of us have same sex cooperative relationships as well, they are called "friends" and "coworkers" :)
 
I'm still not sure about the frequently part, as the only direct mention of homoeroticism is in dolphin pods, and more of the rest of what they mention are the strictly social interactions which all of us have same sex cooperative relationships as well, they are called "friends" and "coworkers" :)

Well, in the full-study, Bailey goes on to describe about 1,000 species, the majority of which display homoerotic behavior. This is just an excerpt from a magazine. In the actual Trends in Ecology and Evolution issue, the majority of the animals they describe display transgenderal homoeroticism, and not just same-sex pair bonding.
 
That is not a discussion we have had... but it seems that my point has eluded you as well. Since it is natural for beasts to kill each other without regard, should we? If we are to relegate everything in nature to homosapiens, where do we end? Should we throw **** at each other as well? Basing human nature on animal nature is kind of asinine.

Adams

You apparently don't want the news much...that is exactly what people still do.
 
Well, in the full-study, Bailey goes on to describe about 1,000 species, the majority of which display homoerotic behavior. This is just an excerpt from a magazine. In the actual Trends in Ecology and Evolution issue, the majority of the animals they describe display transgenderal homoeroticism, and not just same-sex pair bonding.

probably an interesting read, if I remember i'll look for it
 
probably an interesting read, if I remember i'll look for it

I found it to be highly informative, and, IMO, the methodology was pretty sound. The case-study review was pretty methodical, so I had no issues there. I accessed it via Science Direct, which is a payed subscription - I think the actual issue is a few dollars at most [or if you have database access, free].
 
I live in St. Louis, so I get the full effect of your idea... but, please tell me we are validating such.

Adams

The only value judgements in nature are from a survival perspective. For the most part the violent behaviours conferred a survival advantage onto those that engaged to them, and allowed them to spread their genes.

The behaviours exist, the behaviours have existed for a LONG time, and for many members of the species, they will continue to exist.

For those a bit more progressive, we use symbolic violence (ie. calling cops on intruders) to assert the same exact behaviours.
 
Then the more research you do into comparative psychology, my friend, the more you will feel degraded. Homo sapiens sapiens and a great number of higher order mammal species share a wide-range of behavioral traits, particularly in group politics and dynamics. The point was not a direct comparison of human to non-human homosexuality, though, but rather to establish that homosexuality, and specifically homoeroticism, are adaptive mechanisms that certainly further species-survival. As AE14 said, a predominant argument against homosexuality is its supposed unnatural context; to that end, the biological argument is beginning to square away quite nicely, and reveal it to be a natural behavior. In essence, I believe AE14 was attempting to remove the, "That's the way nature intended it" argument from the debate - as nature obviously intended dudes of every species to act in this manner - and discuss it more honestly in terms of social context. Too often those opposed to homosexuals have used the biology argument as an ill-informed crutch.
I, as an intelligent, consciousnes-having species, am proposed, by science have you, to possess something that deferentiates me from the animal species - the ability to reason. Whether or not these basic natural adaptive sexual or social practices take place in the animal kingdom, does not preclude my natural capacity to reason and refrain from such as a higher level being - sanctified from those that crawl on their bellies, toss their feces and chew their cud.

I then must be of a the super-natural status. :)
 
I should have added "so long as the dolphins aren't surprised if I loose all respect for them after reading it". Its kind of interesting that male dolphins are also one of the relatively few animals who are attracted by and will attempt to mate with a female human while shes menstruating. funny really.
 
The only value judgements in nature are from a survival perspective. For the most part the violent behaviours conferred a survival advantage onto those that engaged to them, and allowed them to spread their genes.

The behaviours exist, the behaviours have existed for a LONG time, and for many members of the species, they will continue to exist.

For those a bit more progressive, we use symbolic violence (ie. calling cops on intruders) to assert the same exact behaviours.

So we are equating calling the cops on an attacker to arbitrarily ripping apart members of the same species or a different species for that matter (Racism)? Be that the case, would we not claim it is our uncontrollable animal instinct and become alleviated from the persecution of our peers? Or does our sentient judgment protect us from such atrocities?
 
So we are equating calling the cops on an attacker to arbitrarily ripping apart members of the same species or a different species for that matter (Racism)? Be that the case, would we not claim it is our uncontrollable animal instinct and become alleviated from the persecution of our peers? Or does our sentient judgment protect us from such atrocities?

You did not say arbitrarily, you said invading territory/space.

And if you want to extend this argument, discrimination is the prevention of acquisition of resources in hopes that the arbitrarily decided "other" will "go away".

Yes, under deep levels of repression and filtering, the underlying destructive energy is STILL the same savagery.
 
Well when it comes down to it, Humans are nothing more than apes, albeit a very advanced one. Evolution is responsible for all of our traits one way or another. Even if it wasn't a direct advantage itself to have homosexual tendency, the genes which make it possible for that tendency must have had another evolutionary purpose.

Maybe once more people free their minds from religious bigotry we can start living a more civilized life.
 
Maybe once more people free their minds from religious bigotry we can start living a more civilized life.
Very generalized. This bigotry is not limited to people of religion or faith.

Once my mind is opened and I am enlightened to embrace homosexuality I want you to be my first husband. What do you say? Will you accept my proposal to "civil contract" and live happily ever after? After all it's a "natural thing".

EDIT: I was rude in assuming that you did not already have a husband. I can only hope that polygamy comes to you as naturally to you as it does to the rest of the animal kingdom.
 
You did not say arbitrarily, you said invading territory/space.

And if you want to extend this argument, discrimination is the prevention of acquisition of resources in hopes that the arbitrarily decided "other" will "go away".

Yes, under deep levels of repression and filtering, the underlying destructive energy is STILL the same savagery.

Be that as it may, savagery still exists, that doesn't negate the question. So are we right to practice it? Should I be even tried against a panel of my peers if say I ripped some guys eyes out because he was checking out my wife?

Adams
 
I, as an intelligent, consciousnes-having species, am proposed, by science have you, to possess something that deferentiates me from the animal species - the ability to reason. Whether or not these basic natural adaptive sexual or social practices take place in the animal kingdom, does not preclude my natural capacity to reason and refrain from such as a higher level being - sanctified from those that crawl on their bellies, toss their feces and chew their cud.

I then must be of a the super-natural status. :)

It's more than just the ability to reason, as other animals demonstrate various levels of reasoning.

I do think that, at this point, there IS nothing, beyond developmental level, that truly differentiates us enough to separate us from definition "animal".
 
Maybe once more people free their minds from religious bigotry we can start living a more civilized life.

Funny you are preaching peace for common man, but yet out right chastise a whole group for their beliefs. Funny how the party of peace is quick to turn when the views do not match their own.

Adams
 
Be that as it may, savagery still exists, that doesn't negate the question. So are we right to practice it? Should I be even tried against a panel of my peers if say I ripped some guys eyes out because he was checking out my wife?

Adams

Action/consequence

IF you would like to still enjoy the protections of a society then this freedom will be curbed. Do you believe you still have the right to shoot anyone breaking in to your house? To defend your "resources" with deadly force?

Checking out your wife? Ok...what about walking up on her making lewd comments? placing his hands JUST WITHIN an inch of her breasts? Hmm? Or....call the cops and force the man to be "punished" for his offense, which is symbolic (and not so symbolic given what goes on in jail) violence against his person.

This is not a clean separation, but something that some of us CONSCIOUSLY try to decide as a concept of fairness and reasonable response GIVEN THE NATURAL TENDENCIES OF HUMAN NATURE.


You simply bring in the word "right" as there IS no right in nature that we have not decided as a luxury to add.
 
And the basic tenets of a civilized life are the same basic tenets of religion. amazing.
For the extent that they overlap, it has because religion, to have even the most rudimentary chance of being accepted, had to coopt existing societal rules (code of hammurabi) and pretend that they came up with them.

There was nothing new offered there.
 
Action/consequence

IF you would like to still enjoy the protections of a society then this freedom will be curbed. Do you believe you still have the right to shoot anyone breaking in to your house? To defend your "resources" with deadly force?

Checking out your wife? Ok...what about walking up on her making lewd comments? placing his hands JUST WITHIN an inch of her breasts? Hmm? Or....call the cops and force the man to be "punished" for his offense, which is symbolic (and not so symbolic given what goes on in jail) violence against his person.

This is not a clean separation, but something that some of us CONSCIOUSLY try to decide as a concept of fairness and reasonable response GIVEN THE NATURAL TENDENCIES OF HUMAN NATURE.


You simply bring in the word "right" as there IS no right in nature that we have not decided as a luxury to add.

See, yet again rational thinking comes into play here. The checking out of your wife is different than a good grab of the ass... one of the great things that places us above the animal kingdom.

You made my point for me.

Adams
 
It's more than just the ability to reason, as other animals demonstrate various levels of reasoning.

I do think that, at this point, there IS nothing, beyond developmental level, that truly differentiates us enough to separate us from definition "animal".

Wouldn't your constant thumping on science for all the answers give you that answer. That human beings have evolved to a level past that of the animal kingdom? You constantly harp on religion and beliefs being a sham, but tell me the point where humans or animals for that matter gained the ability to reason, and gain rational thinking. I am not one to push any of my spiritual beliefs on another, but you seem to do so non-stop.

Adams
 
For the extent that they overlap, it has because religion, to have even the most rudimentary chance of being accepted, had to coopt existing societal rules (code of hammurabi) and pretend that they came up with them.

There was nothing new offered there.

I'm pretty sure that religions pre-date the code of hammurabi. Maybe not religions still in existence, but even your early nature worship would have had the shall not kill, steal, etc as a part of their teachings. Not 100% sure though. Considering that most religions were formed or manipulated in part to be used by the ruling class to control the populations, it would make sense that those tenets were a part :)
 
I, as an intelligent, consciousnes-having species, am proposed, by science have you, to possess something that deferentiates me from the animal species - the ability to reason. Whether or not these basic natural adaptive sexual or social practices take place in the animal kingdom, does not preclude my natural capacity to reason and refrain from such as a higher level being - sanctified from those that crawl on their bellies, toss their feces and chew their cud.

I then must be of a the super-natural status. :)

Again, though, that is neither here nor there in respects to this argument; though I believe you are implying that, in humans, homosexuality is an exclusively higher cognitive choice. To that end, higher executive function only serves to initiate final decisions re: biological imperatives, and subsequently place them within a social context; animal or human, this homosexual tendency exists for a specific biological purpose - reason notwithstanding.

At any rate B, I feel this is nothing more than a Red Herring, relative to the true point at hand: homosexuality and homoeroticism are ubiquitous natural tendencies; and so, the biological argument is removed as a crux-point for the homosexual discourse as a whole. The group(s) opposed to homosexuality often use "A man and a woman is natural, that's how anatomy works" as a talking point. They use it, of course, because biology is a far more legitimate and rational explanation than, say, moral reasoning. What we have left, then, is a much more honest discourse between those who find homosexuality to be morally acceptable, and those that do not, with nothing more than morality as the reasoning.

Higher human function and so forth have little-to-nothing to do with the point at hand! Back to the eating example: you can choose what type of food to put in your mouth, but not the desire and necessity to eat it - and so, to imply sexuality is any different is logically inconsistent. Certain imperatives are inherently beyond the control of rational choice, with homosexuality being one of them - i.e., the drive always exists, and one can decide in which ways to act on it, but not to cease from acting on it. You really cannot decide "not" to eat it, lest you do harm to yourself - relatively, the same applies here.

Be that as it may, savagery still exists, that doesn't negate the question. So are we right to practice it? Should I be even tried against a panel of my peers if say I ripped some guys eyes out because he was checking out my wife?

I feel you are drawing conclusions from premises never presented to you, D. The argument is not, "Animals do it, and so should we", but rather: "It is a natural phenomenon, so the point that it is unnatural must logically be removed from the discourse". Nobody is drawing the conclusion you are, insofar as equating this biological phenomenon with morality. When speaking about biology, I feel it is amiss to begin adding in words such as "right" and "should", because you are projecting a human construct onto an evolutionary phenomenon. In the context of animal-kingdom-wide homosexuality, there is only "it does happen", and not "this means it always should". Again, the point here is that this and other mounting [no punt intended] evidence seem to suggest that, contrary to the suggestions of those that are opposed to it, homosexuality is an inherently natural phenomenon. As I said to B, the only argument then remaining is morality, which is necessarily less attractive to an individual opposed to something, as it is less justifiable.

In simple terms, AE14's evidence removes the ability to say, "Homosexuality is not natural, and therefore should not happen". All the opposition is left with is, "Homosexuality is against my beliefs, and therefore should not happen".
 
See, yet again rational thinking comes into play here. The checking out of your wife is different than a good grab of the ass... one of the great things that places us above the animal kingdom.

You made my point for me.

Adams

Nobody ever said rational thinking didn't come into play - but it doesn't change the urges being present. Like I said, action/consequence.

As we have acknowledged, in our artificial human society, that creatures have rights - and that the violation of those rights is morally rephrensible and thus deserves punishment - we have also assigned most rights of punishment to designated agents of violence - police.

THis is from HARM and ENCROACHING RIGHTS OF OTHERS.

Since we are basically startinging from the point of a victimless act (homosexuality) which is also naturally ingrained in "some", that means it is not some free choice or temptation (ie given sin) that is made, but a natural drive in SOME. Since we have already conceded that natural urges exist, in our artificial society with the individual as prime unit, we then have to examine if the exercise of that urge then stomps on the rights of others, which it doesn't.

We therefore have no right to legislate the act or behaviour itself, though we can regulate its public expression.

This is directly applicable to other issues, such as steroid/drug use and invidual freedom for pursuit of happiness.

(sorry for the brief, trying to get out the door here.)
 
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