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Hi-Tech Pharma: Pro IGF-1 Blood Tests @ 20mcg/day

So, tentative conclusion thus far:

best case scenario, dosed as per label, this product is the IGF-1 equivalent of trt.

Datrightguize?
 
JohnnieFreeze said:
Its not the same as rh-IGF-1..it does not have the same muscle building capabilities. lr3 is an expensive glucose disposal agent/nutrient partitioner which may lean you out a little and give good pumps during a cycle (which is why some people swear by it as it gives some results quickly) but there are cheaper options out there for those effects. For hyperlasia you want the rh version.
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In theory , IGF-1 Ir3 is long acting IGF-1. (Min.20 hours half life)
IGF-1 DES is shorter version of IGF1(with short half life) and according papers its 10x stronger than IGF-1.but I do agree they all act differently
 
I had a long correspondence with datbtrue before he went offline about rh-igf vs lr3..he was told directly by the company rep who makes IGF that once they began making lr3 instead of rh, it did lose its muscle building capabilities..but I cant begin to give the scientific reasoning behind it..perhaps someone with a scientific background knows why..maybe ask Patrick Arnold his thoughts on the RH version.
 
JohnnieFreeze said:
I had a long correspondence with datbtrue before he went offline about rh-igf vs lr3..he was told directly by the company rep who makes IGF that once they began making lr3 instead of rh, it did lose its muscle building capabilities..but I cant begin to give the scientific reasoning behind it..perhaps someone with a scientific background knows why..maybe ask Patrick Arnold his thoughts on the RH version.
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Could be related to the pulsatile nature of IGF production. Perhaps by staying around for hours and hours it doesn't have the same receptor activation... just a theory (used in the loose sense)
 
Danes said:
In theory , IGF-1 Ir3 is long acting IGF-1. (Min.20 hours half life)
IGF-1 DES is shorter version of IGF1(with short half life) and according papers its 10x stronger than IGF-1.but I do agree they all act differently
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purely anecdotal but I used DES for about 5 months mostly in upper arms and shoulders. And I can say that those are the regions on my body that have developed the most the past few years (did it 3-4 years ago). Could be coincidence I suppose. And it did give wicked gym pumps.
 
BCseacow83 said:
Does anyone know what a blood test for IGF-1 specifically tests for? Free IGF-1? Bound?
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So I have been reading a slew of studies on Epubmed and from what I can tell you can measure pretty much any and all of the above. There is total, which includes the free and bound, free which is only the free fraction (but this is tiny since most is bound to a carrier protein IGFBP-3), and IGFBP-3 is also sometimes used. there are other binding proteins but that one is the major one. As far as blood tests that you would get from quest or labcorp, that is probably lab specific. I looked up the website to see if they had details on their methods...labcorp had a few details about their sampling and protocol for measuring (Invalid Link Removed)
From the reference ranges listed it looks like they report total IGF-1, but it looks like it is also standardized based off normalized population data from large clinical studies. So the number they initially get is basically compared against norms and the standard ELISA plates and then you get the IGF-1 level. I think what seems to be most important is that the labs all share the same protocol so they can be somewhat comparable.

Someone correct me where I am wrong. It has been known to happen.
 
bigdavid said:
So I have been reading a slew of studies on Epubmed and from what I can tell you can measure pretty much any and all of the above. There is total, which includes the free and bound, free which is only the free fraction (but this is tiny since most is bound to a carrier protein IGFBP-3), and IGFBP-3 is also sometimes used. there are other binding proteins but that one is the major one. As far as blood tests that you would get from quest or labcorp, that is probably lab specific. I looked up the website to see if they had details on their methods...labcorp had a few details about their sampling and protocol for measuring (Invalid Link Removed)
From the reference ranges listed it looks like they report total IGF-1, but it looks like it is also standardized based off normalized population data from large clinical studies. So the number they initially get is basically compared against norms and the standard ELISA plates and then you get the IGF-1 level. I think what seems to be most important is that the labs all share the same protocol so they can be somewhat comparable.

Someone correct me where I am wrong. It has been known to happen.
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Thank you. Is it possible that igf-1 bound to a receptor might not show up as an increase in total igf-1 on labs?
 
BCseacow83 said:
Thank you. Is it possible that igf-1 bound to a receptor might not show up as an increase in total igf-1 on labs?
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I’m making an educated guess here. But I’m gona say no because the free fraction is minuscule compared to the bound. So at least for blood levels it would seem to be the majority of the igf-1, but that doesn’t necessarily correlate with what is in the tissue. But blood is supposed to be an ok indicator and should be relatively constant. But then again blood igf-1 mostly comes from the liver. So I mean tissue specific you don’t know. But the diagnostic tests are used for a specific purpose, usually GH diseases. And in this regard the serum igf-1 is constant and a better indicator of GH than measuring GH itself.
 
So I’d say supplementation wise igf-1 orally or IV should increase serum igf-1 correspondingly. But if you inject locally in tissue idk how much of that trickles out to the blood.
 
JohnnieFreeze said:
Its not the same as rh-IGF-1..it does not have the same muscle building capabilities. lr3 is an expensive glucose disposal agent/nutrient partitioner which may lean you out a little and give good pumps during a cycle (which is why some people swear by it as it gives some results quickly) but there are cheaper options out there for those effects. For hyperlasia you want the rh version.
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I will go to bed knowing more , thank you !
 
Hype was big . I feel bad for all those people that stocked up and bought multiple bottles , than again maybe more blood works will show that the product delivers .��
 
If some of you are in here to just bash a company you are going to be removed. Please stop pretending as if you were giving this a chance to begin with. The hypocrisy is some of you is staggering.
 
Admin said:
If some of you are in here to just bash a company you are going to be removed. Please stop pretending as if you were giving this a chance to begin with. The hypocrisy is some of you is staggering.
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Since some of your comment is referring to me then my answer is:

I have ALWAYS been skeptical to HTP . You know that, other know that, HTP reps knows that.
Yes , I am skeptical and I still believe this will do nothing BUT am I giving it a fair chance? YES ! How?
1. I am solid eater and I still eat like a cow.
2. My lifting routine is solid and I sent VaughnTrue a pic of me which he posted on AM to show I am not joking around.

I mean it is better this way than being naive and getting all of placebo effects.

Remember, I am skeptical to all supplements until it deliver something.no matter if its from OL,SNS,PES etc.

I dont buy comments such as :
" well it didnt worked for you since you was negative from the beginning".

So yes, I am giving this a fair chance no matter what some say
 
Did I say you? If unwanted to address what you've said in the past about Jared and Hi-Tech then I would...and already have.

I'm addressing the people that constantly are in hi tech threads throwing their little passive aggressive BS. If you want to troll, you'll be treated as such.
 
Admin said:
Did I say you? If unwanted to address what you've said in the past about Jared and Hi-Tech then I would...and already have.

I'm addressing the people that constantly are in hi tech threads throwing their little passive aggressive BS. If you want to troll, you'll be treated as such.
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You didnt say directly but I read between the lines.

But I do agree, no reason to bash company until we get more of bloodworks etc.
 
Danes said:
You didnt say directly but I read between the lines.

But I do agree, no reason to bash company until we get more of bloodworks etc.
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An event do if the product does not work as intended , they would still have try so prompt to them! Then I would be surprise if it did not work at all, HTP is such a big company, they most have run internal blood test before releasing it. Well I hope!
 
alvin1 said:
An event do if the product does not work as intended , they would still have try so prompt to them! Then I would be surprise if it did not work at all, HTP is such a big company, they most have run internal blood test before releasing it. Well I hope!
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Autocorrect. Not even once.
 
Firreozkan said:
Why don't they just confirm that it works before they sell it?
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I've often wondered this with things like test boosters. I imagine product research and development is costly but it would definitely help sales of these companies ran small n=5-10 blood tests showing the efficacy of their product via blood work
 
Firreozkan said:
Why don't they just confirm that it works before they sell it?
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Because there is literally zero incentive to do so. Products sell amazingly well without having to invest any time and more importantly, money, in validating whether or not something works (inb4 tangential discussion on definition of "works").

The fact is that clever marketing like quoting favorable cherry-picked studies on certain extracts/ingredients in isolation or animal models, etc, using catch phrases, fancy labels, stating that something is "new/never before seen/an industry first", and on and on.....it's simply good enough to convince many/most supplement consumers and those desperate to find something, anything, that will accelerate muscle growth, fat loss, performance, etc.
 
Killcure666 said:
I've often wondered this with things like test boosters. I imagine product research and development is costly but it would definitely help sales of these companies ran small n=5-10 blood tests showing the efficacy of their product via blood work
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Because everyone and there uncle would bitch about the source of the testing. I am going to get this, run it at rec dose and keep my mouth shut till the end.
 
Admin said:
Considering I live in the mecca of anti aging clinics, yes. It actually sounds like the stuff you are describing isn't the real thing. I've never heard of anyone getting large strength gains from igf in 4 weeks. In fact, much like GH, it takes longer and has more of an asthetic appeal much more than any performance one.
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Never heard igf 1 known for strength increases. It just makes muscle fuller and increase the recovery process so YOU can get back at it training hard. I think people have unrealistic expectations.
 
dvw said:
Never heard igf 1 known for strength increases. It just makes muscle fuller and increase the recovery process so YOU can get back at it training hard. I think people have unrealistic expectations.
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This makes no sense at all.
IGF1 is one of most anabolic hormones in our body and it is definitely more than pump/recovery compound !not only its anabolic at its own but it also share similarities to insulin. Which kick nutrients into "muscles". And what does that mean?more size and strength.
 
Never heard anyone say they have big strength increase from injecting igf 1. Never read it online either.
 
dvw said:
Never heard anyone say they have big strength increase from injecting igf 1. Never read it online either.
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Its pretty possible. If you know how IGF-1 works, it makes sense :)
Feeling just pump and recovery are typical "fast kicking"effects.

How many people test their self for IGF-1 levels ? Believe me, there are many people walking around with low IGF-1 levels. Lethargy, weakness ++ are just some few sides. Doctors may think its due to low Testosterone and often they just check Testosterone but not IGF-1.

One of sides due to lack of IGF-1 is lower muscle strength. So increasing IGF-1 by taking solid "bodybuilder" doses will definitely make you much stronger. This is just an example
 
Danes said:
Its pretty possible. If you know how IGF-1 works, it makes sense :)
Feeling just pump and recovery are typical "fast kicking"effects.

How many people test their self for IGF-1 levels ? Believe me, there are many people walking around with low IGF-1 levels. Lethargy, weakness ++ are just some few sides. Doctors may think its due to low Testosterone and often they just check Testosterone but not IGF-1.

One of sides due to lack of IGF-1 is lower muscle strength. So increasing IGF-1 by taking solid "bodybuilder" doses will definitely make you much stronger. This is just an example
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Idk. This just sounds a little odd to me. Increases in GH and subsequently IGF-1 usually cause the side effects of fatigue and lethargy. In fact I would argue lower IGF-1 is actually much "healthier" than having high levels, and there have been many studies showing that lower levels extend lifespan.
 
bigdavid said:
Idk. This just sounds a little odd to me. Increases in GH and subsequently IGF-1 usually cause the side effects of fatigue and lethargy. In fact I would argue lower IGF-1 is actually much "healthier" than having high levels, and there have been many studies showing that lower levels extend lifespan.
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Not at all.
Just an example:
Lower/low IGF-1 levels is associated with cardiovascular diseases (there are studies proving it) not to mention all other things.lower/low IGF-1 levels and extended lifespan is debatable. Dwarf humans (having low IGF-1 levels) dont live longer. Humans genetically having low IGF-1 levels dont live longer.

1. A person with high nornal IGF-1 (even higher than normal levels) is used to it. He will not experience lethargy etc.
2. Adding exogenous IGF-1 will give you some of sides such as lethargy but that is easy to solve . Adding more carbohydrates
 
Danes said:
Not at all.
Just an example:
Lower/low IGF-1 levels is associated with cardiovascular diseases (there are studies proving it) not to mention all other things.lower/low IGF-1 levels and extended lifespan is debatable. Dwarf humans (having low IGF-1 levels) dont live longer. Humans genetically having low IGF-1 levels dont live longer.

1. A person with high nornal IGF-1 (even higher than normal levels) is used to it. He will not experience lethargy etc.
2. Adding exogenous IGF-1 will give you some of sides such as lethargy but that is easy to solve . Adding more carbohydrates
Click to expand...

Where is there conclusive evidence that low IGF-1 levels causes increased risk for CVD? I wouldn't mind a reference...
You can't use a genetic mutation that results in PATHOLOGICALLY low IGF-1 levels to back up your point that lower levels are bad...I am not saying super super low levels are good, I am saying levels on the bottom end of the "normal" reference range are beneficial health-wise.
Again, a genetic defect in humans causing pathologically low IGF-1 does not back up your point.. I am not talking about them. I am referring to normal people like you and me. If we double our IGF-1 levels, it is less healthy than the alternative. I am not saying that I am happy about this. Hell, I want high IGF-1 levels...but from a scientific standpoint the preponderance of evidence suggests that for an individual, having IGF-1 levels lowered is beneficial. For example, certain diets decrease IGF-1, but not pathologically so... regarding your points on people always having high levels and not knowing any different, I agree with you.

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^^That is just one of the hundreds of published papers showing evidence regarding what I am saying...but hey. I would double my IGF-1 levels all day every day, but I can't deny the cost it may incur.
 
bigdavid said:
Where is there conclusive evidence that low IGF-1 levels causes increased risk for CVD? I wouldn't mind a reference...
You can't use a genetic mutation that results in PATHOLOGICALLY low IGF-1 levels to back up your point that lower levels are bad...I am not saying super super low levels are good, I am saying levels on the bottom end of the "normal" reference range are beneficial health-wise.
Again, a genetic defect in humans causing pathologically low IGF-1 does not back up your point.. I am not talking about them. I am referring to normal people like you and me. If we double our IGF-1 levels, it is less healthy than the alternative. I am not saying that I am happy about this. Hell, I want high IGF-1 levels...but from a scientific standpoint the preponderance of evidence suggests that for an individual, having IGF-1 levels lowered is beneficial. For example, certain diets decrease IGF-1, but not pathologically so... regarding your points on people always having high levels and not knowing any different, I agree with you.

Invalid Link Removed

^^That is just one of the hundreds of published papers showing evidence regarding what I am saying...but hey. I would double my IGF-1 levels all day every day, but I can't deny the cost it may incur.
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You are joking with me right ?
1. There is plenty of evidence low IGF1 levels has negative effects on hearth (such as congestive heart failure as example.just google your self).
2. Bring me better study than this abstract one you posted

I would recommend you to look for IGF1 and heart health.to much is not good,to low is not good either.
 
Danes said:
You are joking with me right ?
1. There is plenty of evidence low IGF1 levels has negative effects on hearth (such as congestive heart failure as example.just google your self).
2. Bring me better study than this abstract one you posted

I would recommend you to look for IGF1 and heart health.to much is not good,to low is not good either.
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Lol right back at you. Just google “igf-1 longevity”. Or better yet look at the similar articles section on the right side of the page. Anyways, agree to disagree. I don’t want this to be a back and forth two page argument. LOL.
 
bigdavid said:
Lol right back at you. Just google “igf-1 longevity”. Or better yet look at the similar articles section on the right side of the page. Anyways, agree to disagree. I don’t want this to be a back and forth two page argument. LOL.
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I do agree igf1 and longevity but it is very debatable. Some studies show this and some that :) but low IGF1 level is critical for heart. Thats for sure
 
Ricky10 said:
Nothing else can really be said. We are all just waiting for Danes bloodwork to tell the story. I think he is having it drawn today (Tuesday).
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they took my blood 9:30AM :)
Now, my blood will be sent to a bigger hospital for analyzing. My doc will get results about 1 week or something :)
I am actually very excited to get those numbers! IGF-1 and IGFBP-3
 
Danes said:
Not at all.
Just an example:
Lower/low IGF-1 levels is associated with cardiovascular diseases (there are studies proving it) not to mention all other things.lower/low IGF-1 levels and extended lifespan is debatable. Dwarf humans (having low IGF-1 levels) dont live longer. Humans genetically having low IGF-1 levels dont live longer.

1. A person with high nornal IGF-1 (even higher than normal levels) is used to it. He will not experience lethargy etc.
2. Adding exogenous IGF-1 will give you some of sides such as lethargy but that is easy to solve . Adding more carbohydrates
Click to expand...

That is along the pathway of information that I have always known..
 
Danes said:
they took my blood 9:30AM :)
Now, my blood will be sent to a bigger hospital for analyzing. My doc will get results about 1 week or something :)
I am actually very excited to get those numbers! IGF-1 and IGFBP-3
Click to expand...
The big moment is finally here! :O
 
Firreozkan said:
If Danes blood work shows great results.... I would believe it most likely works! But would I go for it? I really don't know. Up for the experts here at AM to decide ;)
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Well if Danes bloodwork does come back with some favorable results, we will then be in a situation of wondering if it only worked for him because he mega-dosed it. If the bloods come back with no change, I think it will be safe to say that the ship has sailed on this product..
 
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