Herbal Test Boosters = Waste of $$

[triton185]

Does anybody out here honestly believe that test boosters with longjack, tribulus, horney goat weed and maca actually increase test levels?

I am serious, I have spent a lot of money on supplements with these ingredients and my blood work shows NO increase in testosterone. My test levels actually went down during the period that I have been taking these supplements. My test levels were lower the other day than they were 8 months ago right after I ended an Epi cycle!

Anyway, these supplements might make you feel a little different but that is it!

I think I will spend my money other places in the future.

And, before any of you reps answer this message, show me some proof before you start pitching your product.

 

[Rodja]

Are we talking total test or free test?

 

[triton185]

Total Test and free Test.

 

[Rodja]

Can you post up your lab work?

 

[triton185]

I just have the 2 numbers but I can get a copy of the results from my doctor...

 

[Rodja]

Just those 2 numbers don't fully tell the story.

 

[triton185]

Agreed.....but are those not the 2 numbers that most companies claim their products increase?

 

[Rodja]

No.

 

[UKStrength]

I'd possibly try a product containing Testofen mate (fenugreek extract), it's one of only few herbal preparations actually proven to mimic testosterone in the body. You can find it in several supplements including Phyto-Testosterone and TestoPro.

 

[triton185]

No.

TestoPRO™



Testofen®

Divanil™

Indole-3-Carbinol

Quercetin

BioPerine®



In order to bring to the supplement industry a straight to the point, and HIGHLY effective testosterone booster, Anabolic Innovations presents TestoPRO™.

What is so special about TestoPRO™? Well for starters, it contains an ingredient that had been clinically proven to raise testosterone, in humans! What is this ingredient you ask? It is nothing else but Testofen™ .

Testofen® is an extract of fenugreek seed containing the steroidal saponins, sapogenins and furostanol saponins , which are important precursors for the synthesis of a number of sex hormones. This extract has been proven in human studies to raise free testosterone (the biologically active form) by an amazing 98.81 percent. A 100 percent increase compared to that of the placebo group. Just as important, not only does Testofen® boost free testosterone, but it also aids in fat loss. Not only did the participants in the study have significantly raised testosterone, they also didn’t gain any weight. I know. You want muscle, right? You will like hearing this. Skin fold thickness was measured at the beginning of the study, as well as the end of the study, at both the triceps and thigh regions. On average, participant’s skin fold thickness was reduced 20.18 percent at the triceps and 14.64 percent at the thigh, while maintaining body weight? What does that mean? Only that while losing a substantial amount of fat in the skin fold thickness, participants gained an equal amount of muscle. So they were losing fat and gaining muscle mass, at the same time! Blood Urea nitrogen levels were significantly reduced after consumption of Testofen® . This shows reduction in protein catabolism. This confirms muscle mass build up during the study while skin fold decrease took place. This all sounds well and good, but what about safety of Testofen® ? All these parameters were normal for all participants; Heart Rate, Blood Glucose Levels, Body Temperature, Blood Pressure, Respiratory Rates, Alkaline Phosphate, Bilirubin [ Total, Direct and Indirect ], Creatinine, Haemoglobin, Haematocrit, MCV, MCHC, RBC Count, WBC Count, Platelets, Lymphocytes, Monocytes, Basophils, Eosinophils, and Neutrophils.


Divanil™ What else is beneficial in TestoPRO™? Thanks for asking. Not only does TestoPRO™ contain one ingredient proven to raise free testosterone, but it contains two. The other one is Divanil™ , a compound also proven to raise free testosterone by binding to sex-hormone-binding-globulin, or SHBG. SHBG is a glycoprotein that binds to sex hormones, specifically testosterone and estradiol. By using Divanil™ , a potent inhibitor of SHBG, we are able to dramatically increase the levels of free testosterone in the body. Free testosterone is the only form of testosterone able to enter the cell and cause the positive benefits that testosterone will provide.



Indole-3-Carbinol I know, you have heard that some testosterone boosters can cause issues with libido, and even raising estrogen, but that will not be the case with TestoPRO™. The two ingredients that raise free testosterone will take care of your libido, perhaps even raising it to higher levels than normal, and we have also included an ingredient to modulate your estrogen levels, it is called Indole-3-Carbinol. Indole-3-Carbinol is a compound found in high concentrations in Brassica family vegetables, including

broccoli, cauliflower, Brussels sprouts, and cabbage (sounds like mom was right when she said eat your broccoli, huh?). Indole-3-Carbinol has several effects, ranging from anti-cancer, to anti-oxidant, and finally the reason we included it in our formula – estrogen modulation. The metabolism of estradiol results primarily in either 2-hydroxyestrone or 16a-hydroxyestrone, and to a lesser extent 4-hydroxyestrone. It is known that 16a-hydroxyestrone causes proliferation of some breast tumor cell lines, while the alternative metabolite, 2-hydroxyestrone, demonstrates anti-estrogenic and anti-proliferative activity. Indole-3-Carbinol helps the body to modulate estrogen to degrade into the healthier of the alternatives, as opposed to the other. 2-hydroxyestrone, as you read, has anti-estrogenic properties.



****Sounds like that is what TestoPro claims to do******

 

[Rodja]

TestoPRO™



Testofen®

Divanil™

Indole-3-Carbinol

Quercetin

BioPerine®



In order to bring to the supplement industry a straight to the point, and HIGHLY effective testosterone booster, Anabolic Innovations presents TestoPRO™.

What is so special about TestoPRO™? Well for starters, it contains an ingredient that had been clinically proven to raise testosterone, in humans! What is this ingredient you ask? It is nothing else but Testofen™ .

Testofen® is an extract of fenugreek seed containing the steroidal saponins, sapogenins and furostanol saponins , which are important precursors for the synthesis of a number of sex hormones. This extract has been proven in human studies to raise free testosterone (the biologically active form) by an amazing 98.81 percent. A 100 percent increase compared to that of the placebo group. Just as important, not only does Testofen® boost free testosterone, but it also aids in fat loss. Not only did the participants in the study have significantly raised testosterone, they also didn’t gain any weight. I know. You want muscle, right? You will like hearing this. Skin fold thickness was measured at the beginning of the study, as well as the end of the study, at both the triceps and thigh regions. On average, participant’s skin fold thickness was reduced 20.18 percent at the triceps and 14.64 percent at the thigh, while maintaining body weight? What does that mean? Only that while losing a substantial amount of fat in the skin fold thickness, participants gained an equal amount of muscle. So they were losing fat and gaining muscle mass, at the same time! Blood Urea nitrogen levels were significantly reduced after consumption of Testofen® . This shows reduction in protein catabolism. This confirms muscle mass build up during the study while skin fold decrease took place. This all sounds well and good, but what about safety of Testofen® ? All these parameters were normal for all participants; Heart Rate, Blood Glucose Levels, Body Temperature, Blood Pressure, Respiratory Rates, Alkaline Phosphate, Bilirubin [ Total, Direct and Indirect ], Creatinine, Haemoglobin, Haematocrit, MCV, MCHC, RBC Count, WBC Count, Platelets, Lymphocytes, Monocytes, Basophils, Eosinophils, and Neutrophils.


Divanil™ What else is beneficial in TestoPRO™? Thanks for asking. Not only does TestoPRO™ contain one ingredient proven to raise free testosterone, but it contains two. The other one is Divanil™ , a compound also proven to raise free testosterone by binding to sex-hormone-binding-globulin, or SHBG. SHBG is a glycoprotein that binds to sex hormones, specifically testosterone and estradiol. By using Divanil™ , a potent inhibitor of SHBG, we are able to dramatically increase the levels of free testosterone in the body. Free testosterone is the only form of testosterone able to enter the cell and cause the positive benefits that testosterone will provide.



Indole-3-Carbinol I know, you have heard that some testosterone boosters can cause issues with libido, and even raising estrogen, but that will not be the case with TestoPRO™. The two ingredients that raise free testosterone will take care of your libido, perhaps even raising it to higher levels than normal, and we have also included an ingredient to modulate your estrogen levels, it is called Indole-3-Carbinol. Indole-3-Carbinol is a compound found in high concentrations in Brassica family vegetables, including

broccoli, cauliflower, Brussels sprouts, and cabbage (sounds like mom was right when she said eat your broccoli, huh?). Indole-3-Carbinol has several effects, ranging from anti-cancer, to anti-oxidant, and finally the reason we included it in our formula – estrogen modulation. The metabolism of estradiol results primarily in either 2-hydroxyestrone or 16a-hydroxyestrone, and to a lesser extent 4-hydroxyestrone. It is known that 16a-hydroxyestrone causes proliferation of some breast tumor cell lines, while the alternative metabolite, 2-hydroxyestrone, demonstrates anti-estrogenic and anti-proliferative activity. Indole-3-Carbinol helps the body to modulate estrogen to degrade into the healthier of the alternatives, as opposed to the other. 2-hydroxyestrone, as you read, has anti-estrogenic properties.



****Sounds like that is what TestoPro claims to do******

Did you skip this part?

Adding test in and of itself will only go so far because of conversion and return to homeostasis. This is why it's important to have a more comprehensive approach.

 

[Irish Cannon]

I got gyno from Horny Goat Weed.

...sooo...

 

[HATEFULone]

Does anyone have blood work to dispute op claims? I do not have blood work but have had plenty of experience with fenugreek and have noticed many effects that would indicate increased T, also using a daa product called tcf 1 and have had increased libido, aggression, acne, and strength. unless I missed something those point towards increased T.

 

[DAdams91982]

Should been around when DS released Activate (Divinil).

There was report after report of bloodwork. Slightly reduced Total Test, but significantly increases Free Test by binding to SHBG and deactivating it... so it cannot bind to free test and deactivate it.

 

[triton185]

Did you skip this part?

Adding test in and of itself will only go so far because of conversion and return to homeostasis. This is why it's important to have a more comprehensive approach.

So, does it increase Free Test?

 

[Rodja]

So, does it increase Free Test?

According to information published by Gencor, yes.

 

[triton185]

I got gyno from Horny Goat Weed.

...sooo...

So, the ONLY thing you were taking at the time was HGW? And this was not after some PH/AAS cycle you did? I find that very hard to believe! If you have ever done PH/AAS cycle before then you might have had a delayed onset of gyno...........HGW, I don't think so. That would mean that for me to be safe I need to run PCT after Horny Goat Weed!! LOL!

 

[DAdams91982]

So, the ONLY thing you were taking at the time was HGW? And this was not after some PH/AAS cycle you did? I find that very hard to believe! If you have ever done PH/AAS cycle before then you might have had a delayed onset of gyno...........HGW, I don't think so. That would mean that for me to be safe I need to run PCT after Horny Goat Weed!! LOL!

Why not... LongJack started giving me gyno... that happens to many people.

 

[triton185]

WOW, you guys are really selling me on Herbal Test Boosters!! Now, I might get gyno!?

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

So, does it increase Free Test?

We did have a user who had bloodwork done after TestoPRO and his free test nearly doubled. You can PM thebigt if you want to ask him about it there is also a log he did on it. There are also human studies proving Testofen increases free test in men.

 

[DAdams91982]

WOW, you guys are really selling me on Herbal Test Boosters!! Now, I might get gyno!?

No one here is trying to sell you on ****. Pick up your smart ass attitude and make your own decisions. I assume you are a grown man correct?

 

[triton185]

No one here is trying to sell you on ****. Pick up your smart ass attitude and make your own decisions. I assume you are a grown man correct?

This is a discussion of validity of herbal test boosters. I made a statement that my test levels went down.....and that there is basically no proof that they increase test levels.....and that I believe that most of what they actually do is make you feel a little better and may have a libido impact.

This thread began with me being specific and hoping that I would get some response backed by some evidence but what I ended up getting was "I got gyno from horny goat weed" and "I got gyno from longjack"

So, basically the 2 above statements are evidence that test boosters work?

Just forget it.....if this is best I can get from my original post then it was a complete waste of everyone's time. Maybe someone will come along and post something that is actually informative..............and most of all specific.

Thanks

 

[DAdams91982]

This is a discussion of validity of herbal test boosters. I made a statement that my test levels went down.....and that there is basically no proof that they increase test levels.....and that I believe that most of what they actually do is make you feel a little better and may have a libido impact.

This thread began with me being specific and hoping that I would get some response backed by some evidence but what I ended up getting was "I got gyno from horny goat weed" and "I got gyno from longjack"

So, basically the 2 above statements are evidence that test boosters work?

Just forget it.....if this is best I can get from my original post then it was a complete waste of everyone's time. Maybe someone will come along and post something that is actually informative..............and most of all specific.

Thanks

Quit crying and search the damn forums. The crap is all around, BigT has TestoPro blood work, DS back in the day provide Activate bloodwork from SuperSoldier. I posted bloodwork awhile back with the use of ZMK, Coconut Oil, and EndoAmp.

Research studies are posted all over.

 

[DAdams91982]

Just forget it.....if this is best I can get from my original post then it was a complete waste of everyone's time. Maybe someone will come along and post something that is actually informative..............and most of all specific.

Thanks

Delete the thread then.

 

[triton185]

Done

 

[BBB]

I have been using Testopro for about three weeks (4 tabs/day). I haven't gained any size despite a significant increase in appetite. This is most likely from the fact that fenugreek lowers blood glucose levels and the body is trying to compensate. Moreover, I read that fenugreek can also lower T3 levels. Maybe this is why I feel fatigued much of the time. Strength levels are up slightly but nothing significant. On the positive side, I get morning wood nearly every day. I have two bottles and will continue the cycle to see if anything changes. I have read the Genucor studies with some skepticism since these are "in-house" studies. Moreover, they didn't measure estrogen values. Some say that testofen is more of a phytoestrogen than a phytotestosterone. I can't say for sure so I thought I would give it a try and see what transpires.

 

[HATEFULone]

Has anyone noticed a lot of negative threads lately, I am all for questioning and wanting peer reviewed proof that these products work, just saying Ikve a lot of this product is bs or this product is a waste of money, especially fenugreek extracts lately, just sayin that's what I've noticed.

 

[triton185]

There have been a lot of them lately. I am not hating on anything or anyone's product and that is why I did not name names in my original message.

There is also a lot stuff being hyped up lately on this website. I love this AM and have been on here for years but I think a little "I think this is BS" is healthy to offset some of the pumping up of products. You read enough threads on here and you will see the same ones jumping in and they actually have some vested interest in the type of product that is being discussed. All that is just fine....it's good.....we get info on their product from the people that know it best. BUT there also needs to be some healthy scepticism on here too because this site is constantly growing and the noobies need to hear those questions also.

Just my 2 cents

 

[rchaves]

Has anyone noticed a lot of negative threads lately, I am all for questioning and wanting peer reviewed proof that these products work, just saying Ikve a lot of this product is bs or this product is a waste of money, especially fenugreek extracts lately, just sayin that's what I've noticed.

Well... unfortunately many products ARE bs, and there are almost no proper placebo-controlled double-blind human studies (on putative herbal "test boosters") published in scientific peer-reviewed journals. So generally we have to make do with "in-house" studies or rat-based studies or ghetto 30-yr old Russian studies or just anecdotal evidence (reports, reviews, and logs on AM) ... and take everything with a grain of salt. And for the latter (going on anecdotal evidence--not the salt thing!) to even come close to working requires that people post honest reviews, both negative and positive.

As for fenugreek / Testofen, I'm happily experimenting with what's on the market, and hoping that the Gencor studies are legit and the logs are reliable. Didn't see good results with Zeus, but others have. Was it a waste of money? For me, yes, but that's the gamble of experimenting with these kinds of products. It didn't turn me off to fenugreek altogether though. In fact, I just ordered me some Phyto-test and am hoping for a better outcome!

Cheers!

 

[andrew732]

See if people learn to educate themselves they would not make these threads since they would know what works....

 

[wontstop985]

DTH makes me feel like an animal inside the gym and out. If it isn't raising my test levels, I really wouldn't even be concerned.

 

[triton185]

See if people learn to educate themselves they would not make these threads since they would know what works....

Whatever......then there would be no threads on this board. So, you are telling me that I could "educate myself" and then I would know what herbal supplements work and which do not? If it were that easy then there would not reason to even have a discussion about any of this.

 

[triton185]

DTH makes me feel like an animal inside the gym and out. If it isn't raising my test levels, I really wouldn't even be concerned.

I agree, I like the way I feel while on DTHC and I am not going to say that I will never use it again but I will not be taking it and expecting my Test levels to go up. Just my own personal experience......may work for other people, who knows.

 

[wontstop985]

Yea, I take it because it makes me feel like a badass. Can you even put a price on enhanced motivation, well being, and kicking ass at everything all the time?

Edit: And it gives me boners. Can't beat that.

 

[andrew732]

Whatever......then there would be no threads on this board. So, you are telling me that I could "educate myself" and then I would know what herbal supplements work and which do not? If it were that easy then there would not reason to even have a discussion about any of this.

Actually its pretty simple, some people just don't know what to do and where to look, and don't have access to bloods. You simply want to rant like a 10 year old girl nearing menarche.:fing02:

 

[chocolatemilk]

TRIBULUS has scientifically been studied and proven to have no testosterone increasing effects.....HOWEVER.....it has been scientifically proven to increase libido by stimulating androgen receptors in the brain.

They don't lie about the increase in libido because testosterone is not the sole indicator of libido. There are other biological pathways.

 

[jontrainer]

i have taken quite a few t boosters over the last few years but no significant gains worth the money. I have only made gains off creatine products. Still hopeful though!

 

[andrew732]

i have taken quite a few t boosters over the last few years but no significant gains worth the money. I have only made gains off creatine products. Still hopeful though!

LOL @ this comment, how many times am I going to have to say this, ENDOGENOUS testosterone is NOT for gains, its for vitality. Creatine is your best bet for muscle when it comes to natural supplements, AAS and phs are for muscle but also come with a price.

 

[rchaves]

LOL @ this comment, how many times am I going to have to say this, ENDOGENOUS testosterone is NOT for gains, its for vitality. Creatine is your best bet for muscle when it comes to natural supplements, AAS and phs are for muscle but also come with a price.

Since you claim to be "here to help" (as opposed to LOL at people), could you please explain to me why you think having a high endogenous testosterone level will not lead to increased muscle gains compared to someone who has a lower endogenous test level?

Thanks.

 

[andrew732]

Living proof, also there is an article I read during my studies that showed that synthetic hormones allow for muscle production because of its effects on androgen receptors UNLIKE endogenous hormones. I am human and get annoyed when people get smart alec, if you dont like my here to help then go elsewhere because I am helping by pointing people to the right direction. If you don't like frankness, I believe Walmart has a special on tampons at the moment.

 

[rchaves]

Living proof, also there is an article I read during my studies that showed that synthetic hormones allow for muscle production because of its effects on androgen receptors UNLIKE endogenous hormones. I am human and get annoyed when people get smart alec, if you dont like my here to help then go elsewhere because I am helping by pointing people to the right direction. If you don't like frankness, I believe Walmart has a special on tampons at the moment.

I do value frankness, and I would genuinely appreciate help from you or from anyone else who can answer my question. For direction, I was looking more for a biological explanation or a link to an article--not directions to Walmart, of which the closest is about 3000 miles from me. I'll try to ignore the tampon comment before this thread deteriorates further; I'd prefer to get back to your statement, which is directly related to the OP's question.

You made a claim that I have never heard before, that high endogenous levels of testosterone cannot lead to muscle gain. This would imply that *all* "herbal test boosters" are ineffective for muscle gain, and negate quite a few logs and reports from people on here. Can you or anyone else on here back up / explain that statement? Why would the known anabolic effects of elevated testosterone depend on it source, i.e. it being endogenous vs. exogenous?

 

[redman24]

i am absolutely certain that some of the extracts marketed as "test boosters" have an anabolic activity on their own, independent of testosterone.i also dont think that a 40%-100% increase in endogenous test will do much in terms of muscle growth, especially if it only puts you into the mid-range somewhere.
i believe marketing something as "testosterone boosting" is much easier than "natural anabolic"

 

[eatingisfun]

Horney goat weed is not supposed to increase test. It's a PDE-5 inhibitor. It may be included in some test boosters but it's role is not to increase test. Stinging nettle root has studies showing it lowering SHBG which should raise free test. Also there is some research showing stinging nettle root can block both 5a-reductase and aromatase enzymes.

So there are 2 non bogus ingredients that are useful.

 

[triton185]

Actually its pretty simple, some people just don't know what to do and where to look, and don't have access to bloods. You simply want to rant like a 10 year old girl nearing menarche.:fing02:

WTF are you talking about. Rant? Read my earlier post.....do you want to see my labwork....all three that I have had in the past 10 months. The one before taking a test booster or the one after where I had no increase and actually went down significantly? What would you rather see, someone on here saying "yeah, I got big on my test booster" or "I didn't gain anything on my test booster" or someone saying "look at my lab work"? Whatever.....I am talking about real world experience supported by LAB WORK.

 

[Broly]

Triton, from what I've read about many components of many herbal test boosters it may vary from person to person to get elevated testosterone levels.
As far as blood works, I don't have much to give, the only closest thing that I have related to this is about the rumor that due to phyto-estrogens present in soy lowers one's test levels. I was taking about 2 liters (70 oz.) of soy milk per day for more than 3 months, and I ended up with 757,5 ng/dl of total testosterone in a scale where the maximum is 800 ng/dl. What do I mean with this you might ask? Well I guess my blood work proves that you won't get lowered test levels due to phyto-estrogens (as I belive that I don't naturaly blow up a testosterone scale, if so I'd look like I'm on AAS every day and have the easiness to make quick gains, wich is not my case since I'm a hardgainer).
All this to say that, if I still belive that "phyto-androgens", like phyto-testosterone or phyto-estrogen, have any impact on our test levels? NO, I don't belive, since I've done a blood work that proves that my body haven't changed it's hormonal profile at least at the testosterone level. I can assume this because if phyto-estrogen actualy interacted with my system, first I should have low testosterone levels as the body would enter in a state of homeostasis, due to the exogenous amount of phyto-estrogen that would act as estrogen in my body and it would response as if my own natural estrogen levels were too high and then reducing the production of testosterone would be a solution to the claimed "unstable estrogen levels" that I'd have, and then I should also see the effects of phyto-estrogen in my body, like increased water retention and such, wich I haven't). So as far as any phyto-androgen, they are useless if you ask me and I do have science to back my reasons to belive so.
As far as if other herbal products do increase total or free testosterone, I don't know as I haven't seen blood works from diferent companies and diferent people showing that, all I have is either company studies or company sponsored blood works to suport them and claiming the famous test boost.
About online studies, I've found information that differs radicaly from study to study.
So, all in all, I only have one real world, blood work supported theory and I've presented here, for the others, I'm expecting blood work suported responses.

 

[Robboe]

Horney goat weed is not supposed to increase test. It's a PDE-5 inhibitor. It may be included in some test boosters but it's role is not to increase test.

There are two (IIRC, definately one) studies showing it (epimedium) to raise testosterone and also be a testosterone mimetic.

 

[BBB]

i have taken quite a few t boosters over the last few years but no significant gains worth the money. I have only made gains off creatine products. Still hopeful though!

I would have to agree with this statement. I have also tried many test boosters and test booster stacks and have yet to find one that puts on any significant mass. I have however found several that help with recomp. The best so far is Natradrol/Formadrol combo. We are all here to share information in an effort to educate each other. I appreciate the imput from reps but take them with a "grain of salt". I don't really buy the statement that some things work for some and not for others. I can't give 10 people Deca and all ten will respond. Some more than others but all ten will have positive results. I workout in a large gym and we all share information on supplements, routines, etc. I find that if something works for me it will works for nearly eveyone, provided they are working hard enough to tax their muscles enough to grow. I buy all of my own supplements and try to give completely unbias opinions. Thats what I want from eveyone on this forum, good or bad. All I as is for respect.

 

[triton185]

I would have to agree with this statement. I have also tried many test boosters and test booster stacks and have yet to find one that puts on any significant mass. I have however found several that help with recomp. The best so far is Natradrol/Formadrol combo. We are all here to share information in an effort to educate each other. I appreciate the imput from reps but take them with a "grain of salt". I don't really buy the statement that some things work for some and not for others. I can't give 10 people Deca and all ten will respond. Some more than others but all ten will have positive results. I workout in a large gym and we all share information on supplements, routines, etc. I find that if something works for me it will works for nearly eveyone, provided they are working hard enough to tax their muscles enough to grow. I buy all of my own supplements and try to give completely unbias opinions. Thats what I want from eveyone on this forum, good or bad. All I as is for respect.

I agree 100%.

 

[wastedwhiteboy2]

Too bad we cant have a thread with just bloodwork in them. It does get tough looking for bloodwork and some dont have 8hrs/day to sit in front of the computer. I will say I've seen the old bloodwork on activate and they were impressive but have not seen bloodwork on most other test boosters.

 

[kingdong]

Since test is the hormone that makes men more muscular than women, I would expect that even a 30% test boost would be far superior to any creatine product. Can some one name an herbal test booster that works better than creatine?