Hematocrit Horror Stories

[Punkrocker]

Alright boys just got back from the blood bank. Started getting pressure headaches that wouldn't go away accompanied by dizziness and seeing little spots whenever id strain myself. They pricked my finger and hemoglobin was 17.8 so I dropped a pint. 2 months ago my hemoglobin was 19.2 and it was the same scenario. Now, I wonder if it's anxiety or having my hemoglobin that high causes symptoms because I've heard of people even higher and feeling fine. So, how high has any of you been? Anybody flying super high hematocrits? Weird symptoms? Anyone heard of anyone dying from it because I actually have not. What's your hematocrit Horror Story

 

[Beau]

OK, you came to a forum full on non MDs (that certainly applies to me). High hemoglobin/hematocrit is, obviously, not something you should ignore. Most MDs will take a patient off of TRT on this basis alone.

Think of it this way,high hemoglobin/hematocrit is like your blood being more sludge-like. That makes it harder for your heart and, generally, increases the likelihood of things like ... stroke. Think of pushing pushing 90 weight oil through a passage designed for 20 weight oil.

So, at LEAST - (1) stay very hydrated (maybe 1.2 ounces of water for each pound of body weight - as a start, (2) consider supplements such:

• Naringenin
• Citrulline Malate
• 3 to 4 grams of fish oil per day (I take 10)
• IP-6 and Inositol.
• Beetroot
• Arugula
• Nattokinase

Keep donating blood - and consider double red donations.

IMO opinion, it isn't about what others have gotten away with, and much more adout what you should do - in case you react differently that they did.

Good luck.

Remember, this is just well intended dude stuff, and your MD can probably provide a better path.

 

[Punkrocker]

OK, you came to a forum full on non MDs (that certainly applies to me). High hemoglobin/hematocrit is, obviously, not something you should ignore. Most MDs will take a patient off of TRT on this basis alone.

Think of it this way,high hemoglobin/hematocrit is like your blood being more sludge-like. That make it harder for your heart and, generally, increases the likelihood of things like ... stroke.

So, at LEAST - (1) stay very hydrated (maybe 1.2 ounces of water for each pound of body weight - as a start, (2) consider supplements such:

• Naringenin
• Citrulline Malate
• 3 to 4 grams of fish oil per day (I take 10)
• IP-6 and Inositol.
• Beetroot
• Arugula
• Nattokinase

Keep donating blood - and consider double red donations.

Good luck.

Remember, this is just well intended dude stuff, and your MD can probably provide a better path.

Hell yeah bro. I been donating since 2014 and always kept my hematocrit in check however I just started growth hormone back in February and now my hematocrit is increasing at a much faster rate that in having to donate much more often. I'm pretty sure I can still keep it in track but I'm going to have to donate like every 3 months now instead of once or twice a year. Once I get off the growth hormone I'm going to switch to mk677 at a low dose for a little while and see how that goes

 

[Beau]

FWIW - I donate every time I can, based on double-red donation schedules.

But (admittedly) I am not an expert - just someone who cares enough to offer a well-intended opinion.

 

[Punkrocker]

FWIW - I donate every time I can, based on double-red donation schedules.

But (admittedly) I am not an expert - just someone who cares enough to offer a well-intended opinion.

I appreciate the input it's always good to hear everybody's opinions because I hear things from both sides. Some people will say it's extremely risky and you could increase your blood pressure put yourself at risk for stroke etc etc but I've also watched videos by actual MDs who will say things like "people who live in higher altitudes have hematocrites in the 50s and they're not dropping blood so why should men on testosterone drop their blood it's not a risk as long as there's no other cardiovascular risk factors". I've also seen doctors recommend taking 5 mg Cialis daily to take a little stress of the cardiovascular system which I do anyway plus I like to ram my girlfriend with that stuff. When I get these headaches I always wonder if it's in relation to having a higher hematocrit or if it's in my mind because it seems to happen when my hematocrit goes up and then I donate blood and they go away but is it because I donated blood or is it because I think that was the cause so by placebo I feel better.

 

[Rocket3015]

Donate as often as you can, and my hydration a priority !!

 

[GreenMachineX]

I had to bring my dose down to control my hct and hgb. My hct has been as high as 58 and didn't know really, except I got dizzy and nauseated riding a carnival ride and it took quite a while to recover. But, I'm not ok with hgb over 18 and hct over 52. I've also given myself iron deficiency (Low ferritin) from donating too much trying to keep my test dose too high. Low ferritin feels horrible too.

What's your ferritin?

 

[Punkrocker]

I had to bring my dose down to control my hct and hgb. My hct has been as high as 58 and didn't know really, except I got dizzy and nauseated riding a carnival ride and it took quite a while to recover. But, I'm not ok with hgb over 18 and hct over 52. I've also given myself iron deficiency (Low ferritin) from donating too much trying to keep my test dose too high. Low ferritin feels horrible too.

What's your ferritin?

I haven't checked in a while but I'm sure it's low. Last time I checked my ferritin it was like right at the edge of low/normal so it's probably low

 

[Rocket3015]

@Hyde may have some good insight here?

 

[kisaj]

Beau already hit everything relevant that you will get from people without MDs, but the information is about what you'd likely get from a GP anyway.

I'm sure you are aware that GH can increase Hb, so that is a factor at the onset. Another thing to keep in mind is your diet and sleep. High iron diets contribute to higher Hb, dehydration does, and sleep apnea is a big one.

Yes, most docs will want you to stop or drop TRT dose, or at the very least re-test. HCT by itself isn't so much the issue as it is true, those of us living at altitude often have levels that are normally high and TRT will push you out of the range pretty easy. My specialists run a fairly standard approach of recommending blood donation or addressing dose if you are consistently running 55-56 levels of HCT. However, put together with high Hb, you should keep an eye on it like you are.

 

[Hyde]

Talking about people being in 50s in altitude is a very large range. Being at 51% hematocrit is no big deal - my NONMEDICAL BROpinion based on what I’ve read is you can live in low 50s pretty safely. But 59 hematocrit is still 50s, and I would be seeking out immediate phlebotomy if I was at 59% and running any gear. There’s a very big difference in viscosity between those 2 numbers as far as where things start to skew, risk-wise. The opinion I currently hold is that it is a priority to keep things under 55 for myself.

The other thing to consider is that as an AAS user/abuser, you inherently DO have other risk factors for stroke. Elevations in BP, prolonged dyslipidemia, enlarged heart from strength training and gear, higher bodyweight/BMI than what is considered statistically healthy. I appreciate you personally keep yourself on the leaner and lighter side from a steroid-user perspective, but from an absolute perspective you are still a bigger mammal than the norm.

IP6 is a good supplement to block dietary iron absorption, so it’s very useful for someone trying to manage blood thickness without donation, BUT if you donate routinely it’s a great way to accidentally make yourself anemic. You have to monitor and maintain decent ferritin levels, so the frequent donator may find they need to really tweak diet or even supplement iron if ferritin is getting too low. If you won’t go heavy on red meat, using fortified cereals (Rice Chex, Special K, Shredded Wheat, Wheat Chex especially) consumed at the same time with a bit of Vit C (like an orange or strawberries even) helps increase the absorption of non-heme iron.

On a related note, it’s fairly common for supplement users to (over)supplement with Vit C. This will directly boost new blood production, so it is bad to basally supplement outside of diet if you are trying to slow things down without donation.

 

[Hyde]

Also, the last time I used naringin (for a fatloss stack), I got a big nosebleed on barbell rows without having high blood pressure. It thins the blood A LOT.

 

[kisaj]

Great point on Vit C. It increases iron absorption so if you are already eating a high iron diet, then this can increase storage of non-heme and heme foods. TRT already significantly suppresses hepcidin, so anything adding to that will increase RBC.

 

[Rocket3015]

Thanks @Hyde Great Info !

 

[khall1974]

Also, the last time I used naringin (for a fatloss stack), I got a big nosebleed on barbell rows without having high blood pressure. It thins the blood A LOT.

How much were you taking??

 

[Hyde]

How much were you taking??

500mg naringin

Taken with 50mg synephrine & 100mg hesperidin (these are all citrus bioflavonoids) it was shown to increase caloric expenditure over a few hours by ~180 on average, without raising blood pressure or other symptoms of overstimulation. Synephrine on it’s own was much less potent, as was this trio with larger doses of hesperidin. The specific doses of this combo mattered.

 

[Punkrocker]

Wow this is great info guys! Now, has any of you ever heard of anyone who actually had a heart attack/stroke directly due to high hematocrit tho? Because I haven't. All I've read is that if it gets too high your blood is thicker thus putting you at a higher risk of a cardiovascular event

 

[kisaj]

No stories I've heard of nor my doctors or specialists in all their years of treating with TRT, but they cannot discount the risk regardless.

An interesting study I found points to conflicting evidence that hepcidin suppression from TRT (regulates iron metabolism) is the cause of high hemoglobin and HCT. They find that exogenous test increases both even when this is not a factor, hypothesizing that it could be via bone marrow or other factors that continue to increase these. It's not definitive that it doesn't play a role by making iron available to make more RBC, but it's not the only reason.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/andr.12622

 

[Hyde]

Wow this is great info guys! Now, has any of you ever heard of anyone who actually had a heart attack/stroke directly due to high hematocrit tho? Because I haven't. All I've read is that if it gets too high your blood is thicker thus putting you at a higher risk of a cardiovascular event

If your bp is truly under control and are otherwise fit, it shouldn’t be an issue. Consider distance cyclists even doping for thick blood. But they have high aerobic capacity and maintain relatively low bodyweights.

If you have gunky/narrowed/inflexible arteries (atherosclerosis) and high blood pressure, having thick blood then becomes an issue.

 

[Punkrocker]

If your bp is truly under control and are otherwise fit, it shouldn’t be an issue. Consider distance cyclists even doping for thick blood. But they have high aerobic capacity and maintain relatively low bodyweights.

If you have gunky/narrowed/inflexible arteries (atherosclerosis) and high blood pressure, having thick blood then becomes an issue.

I wonder how high a blood doping cyclist's hematocrit is. You think they are in the 60s

 

[Punkrocker]

Oh also, since I've donated this time I feel colder now. I bet my ferritin is in the shitter lol

 

[kisaj]

I wonder how high a blood doping cyclist's hematocrit is. You think they are in the 60s

They only do this for a brief period of time. This actually crept into mtn bike racing and I knew quite a few guys cheating.

 

[cdawgismoney]

Having same issue with hematocirt (56) and hemoglobin (18.8). I added Nattokinase, stopped drinking copious amounts of carrot juice. I'll get bloods this week. If I don't see any improvement, I'm going to either reduce TRT dose or just come off of it.

I have an issue with needles. Not just "oh they're gross", but nearly fainted twice doing bloods (one of those times, I was even laying down). And to anybody that thinks this is just anxiety--in some ways, it's the opposite of anxiety. Your blood pressure drops as opposed to rising. And you cognitively become impaired. I've been anxious before, it's much different. If anyone knows a supplement that can cure this issue with needles, please pass it on lol

It really sucks because everything else in my blood work (including lipids) is on point (thanks to nicotinic acid).

 

[Hyde]

Valium is what the urologist gave me for my vasectomy. Made me calm enough to stare at the ceiling and make small talk with a guy who is operating on my ballsack.

I emphatically suggest that you only source that or something similar exclusively legally from your practitioner for your bloodwork. Meds acquired on the street these days are totally untrustworthy with the fentanyl crisis. A member here recently lost a relative who sourced something secondhand in a pinch that ended up being laced with fentanyl.

 

[Rocket3015]

Valium is what the urologist gave me for my vasectomy. Made me calm enough to stare at the ceiling and make small talk with a guy who is operating on my ballsack.

I emphatically suggest that you only source that or something similar exclusively legally from your practitioner for your bloodwork. Meds acquired on the street these days are totally untrustworthy with the fentanyl crisis. A member here recently lost a relative who sourced something secondhand in a pinch that ended up being laced with fentanyl.

Great advice!!

 

[cdawgismoney]

I appreciate the advice, but only thing is that Valium sounds more like addressing intense anxiety. I think I need something that raises blood pressure (or prevents it from dropping) temporarily rather than a relaxant.

 

[Punkrocker]

I appreciate the advice, but only thing is that Valium sounds more like addressing intense anxiety. I think I need something that raises blood pressure (or prevents it from dropping) temporarily rather than a relaxant.

Cocaine?

 

[Hyde]

I appreciate the advice, but only thing is that Valium sounds more like addressing intense anxiety. I think I need something that raises blood pressure (or prevents it from dropping) temporarily rather than a relaxant.

I have the same problem, just not so intense. The first time I ever gave blood I nearly fainted, I always have to look away when I get my bloodwork done, and I even nearly fainted on a recent bloodwork when she popped the vein and had to go for the other & it was taking forever - I’m sure just reading that is making you squeamish.

Looking away, focusing my mind on anything else, that’s how I do it. Meditation and mental training can help you prepare there.

I think you need to discuss this with your doctor. Even if raising BP were a viable solution, that definitely would need to be a supervised thing. A sodium injection isn’t exactly going to be the right answer for you!

 

[cdawgismoney]

Cocaine?

LOL...I was thinking along the same lines. Something like Cocaine/Meth that takes away fear and raises BP probably would be ideal for this one particular purpose.

 

[ripper225]

Wow this is great info guys! Now, has any of you ever heard of anyone who actually had a heart attack/stroke directly due to high hematocrit tho? Because I haven't. All I've read is that if it gets too high your blood is thicker thus putting you at a higher risk of a cardiovascular event

I did.

My hematocrit was ~53 if I remember the test results correctly. Ultimately I had a clot in my heart that doctors think partly broke off and sent a clot to my brain causing a stroke. My whole left side was dead, wife found me in and dialed up EMS take me to the hospital. Fortunately they got me there quick and the docs were able to dissolve the clot before too much damage. I was in the hospital for roughly 3wks and was very fortunate to have the outcome I did. Only lasting effects are some altered tactile sensations in my left hand.

A lot of the types of supps people use can raise hematocrit. Do yourself a favor and be smart about it. Get levels checked, donate blood as often as you can, take a baby aspirin daily.

Sometimes less is more

 

[Rocket3015]

I did.

My hematocrit was ~53 if I remember the test results correctly. Ultimately I had a clot in my heart that doctors think partly broke off and sent a clot to my brain causing a stroke. My whole left side was dead, wife found me in and dialed up EMS take me to the hospital. Fortunately they got me there quick and the docs were able to dissolve the clot before too much damage. I was in the hospital for roughly 3wks and was very fortunate to have the outcome I did. Only lasting effects are some altered tactile sensations in my left hand.

A lot of the types of supps people use can raise hematocrit. Do yourself a favor and be smart about it. Get levels checked, donate blood as often as you can, take a baby aspirin daily.

Sometimes less is more

Sorry you had to go thru this!!

But this is Great Advice !!

Do yourself a favor and be smart about it. Get levels checked, donate blood as often as you can, take a baby aspirin daily.

 

[Uncle_E]

Having same issue with hematocirt (56) and hemoglobin (18.8). I added Nattokinase, stopped drinking copious amounts of carrot juice. I'll get bloods this week. If I don't see any improvement, I'm going to either reduce TRT dose or just come off of it.

I have an issue with needles. Not just "oh they're gross", but nearly fainted twice doing bloods (one of those times, I was even laying down). And to anybody that thinks this is just anxiety--in some ways, it's the opposite of anxiety. Your blood pressure drops as opposed to rising. And you cognitively become impaired. I've been anxious before, it's much different. If anyone knows a supplement that can cure this issue with needles, please pass it on lol

It really sucks because everything else in my blood work (including lipids) is on point (thanks to nicotinic acid).

I was the same way with needles and blood draws. I’m actually amazed that I’ve been on TRT for years now. I had a bad experience with a blood draw in high school where they kept sticking me and nothing would come out. So I have/had the same incredible anxiety with any to do with needles - almost passed out and puked nearly every time.

I’ve found that exposure therapy helps, the more experiences I have, each time is a little easier. It helps to talk through the experience with the doctor/nurse - I tell them that I typically have X,Y&Z symptoms and even though I cognitively know that I will be fine and I can handle it, there is a subconscious emotional effect that is causing all of these symptoms. The more I say it out loud and push through the experience, the less dramatic the symptoms are. Ease into subjecting yourself to the pain and anxiety, feel it and deal with it - just like training in the gym.

I pushed myself to donate blood for the first time last fall and I’m planning to again sometime soon. It was agonizing at first, but I really felt amazing and proud of myself after it was over.

 

[Punkrocker]

I did.

My hematocrit was ~53 if I remember the test results correctly. Ultimately I had a clot in my heart that doctors think partly broke off and sent a clot to my brain causing a stroke. My whole left side was dead, wife found me in and dialed up EMS take me to the hospital. Fortunately they got me there quick and the docs were able to dissolve the clot before too much damage. I was in the hospital for roughly 3wks and was very fortunate to have the outcome I did. Only lasting effects are some altered tactile sensations in my left hand.

A lot of the types of supps people use can raise hematocrit. Do yourself a favor and be smart about it. Get levels checked, donate blood as often as you can, take a baby aspirin daily.

Sometimes less is more

Holy crap! May I ask how old you were when this happened and did or do you have any other medical conditions that may have contributed to this?

 

[ripper225]

42. I didn’t have anything else going on health wise, I was working out regularly and I great shape. However, at 23 I had an MI from a clot that put me in the hospital for close to 2-3 weeks. Don’t recall what my hemoglobin/hematocrit was then but docs didn’t seem to say anything about it. I was on blood thinners for a year the first time before doc said I’d made a full recovery and took me off. Guess I’m just more susceptible to clotting… regardless, after last incident I’m on blood thinners for life now — I escaped death twice, no since pushing my luck

 

[Punkrocker]

42. I didn’t have anything else going on health wise, I was working out regularly and I great shape. However, at 23 I had an MI from a clot that put me in the hospital for close to 2-3 weeks. Don’t recall what my hemoglobin/hematocrit was then but docs didn’t seem to say anything about it. I was on blood thinners for a year the first time before doc said I’d made a full recovery and took me off. Guess I’m just more susceptible to clotting… regardless, after last incident I’m on blood thinners for life now — I escaped death twice, no since pushing my luck

Ok that sorta makes sense. Im glad you're ok brother. I wish you decades more of good health

 

[Rocket3015]

42. I didn’t have anything else going on health wise, I was working out regularly and I great shape. However, at 23 I had an MI from a clot that put me in the hospital for close to 2-3 weeks. Don’t recall what my hemoglobin/hematocrit was then but docs didn’t seem to say anything about it. I was on blood thinners for a year the first time before doc said I’d made a full recovery and took me off. Guess I’m just more susceptible to clotting… regardless, after last incident I’m on blood thinners for life now — I escaped death twice, no since pushing my luck

Glad you decided to stick around !!

 

[sledge84]

I've been on TRT for 2 years. My H&H has always been on the higher side before I started. Right after it went above the normal range. TRT clinic says I need to donate every 2 months. But my primary says it's not necessary. My blood pressure is l rarely goes over 130/80 and I take a baby aspirin and I've started nattokinase recently. I don't feel any effects of the higher levels. I was donating blood but it'll always go high. It never gets higher without donating so I stopped. Feel much better with normal ferritin levels. I've seen some videos where doctors talk about not needing to donate if the increase is related to aTRT so I'm using that as an excuse to skip it. Oh here a pic of latest CBC. Platelets are within normal range in case anyone is wondering.

 

[Punkrocker]

I've been on TRT for 2 years. My H&H has always been on the higher side before I started. Right after it went above the normal range. TRT clinic says I need to donate every 2 months. But my primary says it's not necessary. My blood pressure is l rarely goes over 130/80 and I take a baby aspirin and I've started nattokinase recently. I don't feel any effects of the higher levels. I was donating blood but it'll always go high. It never gets higher without donating so I stopped. Feel much better with normal ferritin levels. I've seen some videos where doctors talk about not needing to donate if the increase is related to aTRT so I'm using that as an excuse to skip it. Oh here a pic of latest CBC. Platelets are within normal range in case anyone is wondering.
View attachment 234313

Yeah bro that's pretty much what my hematocrit looks like when I don't do anything. Hemoglobin around 18-19 and hematocrit around 53-56. I dunno bro I've never had any health issues except for headaches that go away after I donated. However I'm really starting to think that it's a placebo thing because I would get these headaches and then run to donate and when they do my fingerprint they see that my hemoglobin is only at 16 or 17 so it doesn't really make any sense I really think it's in my head. My doctor has never expressed concern either. He said worry if my hematocrit gets into the 60s lol

 

[Beau]

I've been on TRT for 2 years. My H&H has always been on the higher side before I started. Right after it went above the normal range. TRT clinic says I need to donate every 2 months. But my primary says it's not necessary. My blood pressure is l rarely goes over 130/80 and I take a baby aspirin and I've started nattokinase recently. I don't feel any effects of the higher levels. I was donating blood but it'll always go high. It never gets higher without donating so I stopped. Feel much better with normal ferritin levels. I've seen some videos where doctors talk about not needing to donate if the increase is related to aTRT so I'm using that as an excuse to skip it. Oh here a pic of latest CBC. Platelets are within normal range in case anyone is wondering.
View attachment 234313

IIWIYS - I woudl donate, regardless. Other people benefit, and that is a good enough reason for me. But, my MD is very concerned about H&H and monitors it closely. Whenever I am on the bubble (decision wise), I tend to look at the net benefit and potential downside of each option, then select one that having the greatest net benefit. I don't see a downside to donating and I do see a plus side to donating. I do see a potential downside to having high H&H, and see no benefit from not donating. So, for me, it is an easy decision.

 

[Hyde]

IIWIYS - I woudl donate, regardless. Other people benefit, and that is a good enough reason for me. But, my MD is very concerned about H&H and monitors it closely. Whenever I am on the bubble (decision wise), I tend to look at the net benefit and potential downside of each option, then select one that having the greatest net benefit. I don't see a downside to donating and I do see a plus side to donating. I do see a potential downside to having high H&H, and see no benefit from not donating. So, for me, it is an easy decision.

But did you actually read his post? He feels better not donating because his ferritin isn’t getting low. When you donate blood, your ferritin drops. If this becomes too low, you may not feel as vital/strong. There IS a potential downside to donating too often.

You can pull your ferritin levels any time you draw a CBC, and then you know where you stand and if donation will be no issue.

 

[sledge84]

But did you actually read his post? He feels better not donating because his ferritin isn’t getting low. When you donate blood, your ferritin drops. If this becomes too low, you may not feel as vital/strong. There IS a potential downside to donating too often.

You can pull your ferritin levels any time you draw a CBC, and then you know where you stand and if donation will be no issue.

This is 3 months after a blood donation. Taken Aug of last year. Sleep was horrible. Took awhile to feel normal again.

 

[Rocket3015]

I have never really heard of ferritin levels before, looks like I got something to study!

 

[Hyde]

This is 3 months after a blood donation. Taken Aug of last year. Sleep was horrible. Took awhile to feel normal again. View attachment 234318

Holy crap, 13 is awful. Mine was 130s still weeks after a single donation, eating red meat daily.

They hit you with this sob story about helping others, to do your part - and you are really helping people in need…but it’s also a business, and you do need to also look out for your own well-being.

 

[Hyde]

Holy crap, 13 is awful. Mine was 130s still weeks after a single donation, eating red meat daily.

They hit you with this sob story about helping others, to do your part - and you are really helping people in need…but it’s also a business, and you do need to also look out for your own well-being.

130s is fine btw, no issues there, but you can see that me donating every 8 weeks would quickly become unsustainable for me personally.

 

[Uncle_E]

I had a blood test in early July and hermatocrit was just out of range at 51.9 (39-51) and hemoglobin was barely in range 17.5 (13.0-17.7). I donated blood within a week and had bloods drawn again about 6 weeks later at the end of August. HCT is down to 48.9 and HGB is at 16.7. I’m really happy with the positive results!

I’m just cruising on a heavy TRT dose 150-200mg/week, no other PED’s at the moment. I take ubiqunol, fish oil and natokinase daily. I recently went on lisinopril 5mg daily and added IP6 daily too.

Having BP and H&H in check as well as using a cpap machine at night and I’m waking up feeling good and healthy everyday now.