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Havoc Write-up

Ole Skl said:
Trauma, if I were to PM you with the basics of my diet, training routine, and plans for my cycle, would you be able to give it a once over for me? or at least point me in the direction of someone who could...
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I'd be happy to. Hit me up.
 
havoc is a beast and listen when it says drink plenty of fluids because i went a few days without drinking lots of water and i got muscle pumps in my back so bad i was nearly down to my knees it hurt so bad
 
Bigguy851 said:
havoc is a beast and listen when it says drink plenty of fluids because i went a few days without drinking lots of water and i got muscle pumps in my back so bad i was nearly down to my knees it hurt so bad
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Yes, adequate fluid intake is an absolute must in muscle pump prevention. Adding in taurine and electrolytes(sodium,potassium,calcium) will also add a great deal of benefit.
 
Bigguy851 said:
havoc is a beast and listen when it says drink plenty of fluids because i went a few days without drinking lots of water and i got muscle pumps in my back so bad i was nearly down to my knees it hurt so bad
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ouch....I don't envy how that must have felt.

Your body will tell you what it needs if you listen; though..
 
hey trauma i just ordered some bcaa and taurine i have about two weeks left of havoc i was wondering how i should take the taurine and bcaa with the havoc. also i am takin venom by alr to cut weight should i stop takin that
 
Iam onmy last week of Havoc and Hdrol. Very happy with the gains. The pumps at 40 are amazing. I did not feel much at 30
I did 30/30/40/40 with Hdrol at 50/75/100/100. Very minimal sides, I started at 193 and today I was at 211. It hell crazy that I gained all my weight though in one week. That I do not understand. I was thinking lots of water retention, but these compunds are supposed to be dry, And I drink coffee 3 days a week at night to keep me awake through the night. The only thing I can think of is I added albuterol just prior to my workouts starting on my 3rd week. Just to give me some added energy. Strengh wise, it worked wonders for me.
 
Bigguy851 said:
hey trauma i just ordered some bcaa and taurine i have about two weeks left of havoc i was wondering how i should take the taurine and bcaa with the havoc. also i am takin venom by alr to cut weight should i stop takin that
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I would definitely stop taking the venom until after your pct is complete. Otherwise you'll be sacrificing hard earned muscle at this point. There will be plenty of time to cut up and show off your new muscle.

I like to drink my BCAA's intraworkout while at the gym. As far as taurine goes, i usually take a dose pre-workout(3g) and then again post workout(3g).
 
spshond said:
Iam onmy last week of Havoc and Hdrol. Very happy with the gains. The pumps at 40 are amazing. I did not feel much at 30
I did 30/30/40/40 with Hdrol at 50/75/100/100. Very minimal sides, I started at 193 and today I was at 211. It hell crazy that I gained all my weight though in one week. That I do not understand. I was thinking lots of water retention, but these compunds are supposed to be dry, And I drink coffee 3 days a week at night to keep me awake through the night. The only thing I can think of is I added albuterol just prior to my workouts starting on my 3rd week. Just to give me some added energy. Strengh wise, it worked wonders for me.
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Glad you enjoyed the havoc. I will say though that running two methylated compounds together is not a wise choice overall, however i won't preach and will leave it at that. Remember safety ALWAYS comes first. Just make sure you get some bloodwork done when your cycle is done to make sure all is fairly decent with lab values.
 
timmmah said:
How bout san attitude? non methyl?
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I had no idea what it was so i looked it up. San's "Attitude" is a test booster using the aromatase inhibition of ATD and 3-OHAT. Not something you'd want to add in during your havoc cycle.
 
how much negative effect does Havoc have on the Liver or can someone point me in the direction of a post already covering this. yes I "got search" already
 
wrkn4bigrmusles said:
how much negative effect does Havoc have on the Liver or can someone point me in the direction of a post already covering this. yes I "got search" already
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liver function tests from numerous testers, both during and after cycle, while elevated slightly show the compound to be comparably benign.

Havoc IS a 17a methylated compound and it is most definitely not wonderful on the liver, so all due diligence should be taken.

As indicated, avoid ALL alcohol while on cycle, supplement with milk thistle and NAC, and run a conservative Post Cycle Therapy.
 
I think dsade summed that up nicely.

Anything that is 17a methylated prevents the liver from oxidizing the compound during the first pass effect. This means that it has to work very hard to eventually metabolize the compound. Avoid anything that would cause added stress to you liver. The havoc write-up Q&A sums it up pretty good.
 
Trauma1 said:
I had no idea what it was so i looked it up. San's "Attitude" is a test booster using the aromatase inhibition of ATD and 3-OHAT. Not something you'd want to add in during your havoc cycle.
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Thanx, how about formadrol by legal gear or axis ht?
 
If you are looking to add something to Havoc, you don't really need anything. Save the formadrol and any other test booster for PCT. MMV2 would be a great addition to havoc if you wanted. if never ran just go solo.
 
timmmah said:
Thanx, how about formadrol by legal gear or axis ht?
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If you're looking to add a great compound to stack with Havoc i would suggest Anabolic Xtreme's: 3-AD. I think the two would have a very good synergy. I logged the beta for 3-AD a few months ago. Do a quick search for the log(T1's 3-AD Tester Log Redux) in the supplement review/log section.

Havoc as a compound will give you amazing gains all in itself. If you haven't used havoc before i'd suggest running a Havoc cycle solo to gain knowledge of the compound and its effects on your body.
 
Trauma1 said:
If you're looking to add a great compound to stack with Havoc i would suggest Anabolic Xtreme's: 3-AD. I think the two would have a very good synergy. I logged the beta for 3-AD a few months ago. Do a quick search for the log(T1's 3-AD Tester Log Redux) in the supplement review/log section.

Havoc as a compound will give you amazing gains all in itself. If you haven't used havoc before i'd suggest running a Havoc cycle solo to gain knowledge of the compound and its effects on your body.
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Thanx a lot bro! I'll try the first cycle solo Havoc, but should I add tribulus to offset libido? What effects would that have on the potency of havoc?
 
timmmah said:
Thanx a lot bro! I'll try the first cycle solo Havoc, but should I add tribulus to offset libido? What effects would that have on the potency of havoc?
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I would add DHEA to hep with libido and joints.

I've also been using Diesel Test Hardcore, and find it impressive.
 
hows it going fellas i am currently running a 2 week cycle of havoc at 20 mg a day and i can already see a shrinkin of my glandular gyno and a tightening of my puffy a** nips. I am going to buy my PCT supplies tommrow i am going to go with 60x0 extreme tribulus and creatine...should i run the 60x0 for just weeks like my cycle and how about the tribulus? need a little input here gents ur help is greatly appreciated. This stuff is crazy on my strenght!!!
 
how do you recommend dosing the DCP during cycle, I was thinking

3- pre cardio
2- 30 min before lunch and dinner

is it as simple as that?
 
wasupmuh33 said:
hows it going fellas i am currently running a 2 week cycle of havoc at 20 mg a day and i can already see a shrinkin of my glandular gyno and a tightening of my puffy a** nips. I am going to buy my PCT supplies tommrow i am going to go with 60x0 extreme tribulus and creatine...should i run the 60x0 for just weeks like my cycle and how about the tribulus? need a little input here gents ur help is greatly appreciated. This stuff is crazy on my strenght!!!
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Start at page one of this thread. Neoborn also has another thread with everything you need to know. All your answers are in both. Good luck.
 
wrkn4bigrmusles said:
how do you recommend dosing the DCP during cycle, I was thinking

3- pre cardio
2- 30 min before lunch and dinner

is it as simple as that?
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Yeah - I think that looks pretty good. It should definitely give you some very nice endurance boost effects dosing it pre-workout. The PLCAR in DCP will also enhance androgen receptor proliferation increasing potential muscle mass gains.

Feel free to play around with the dosing a bit to see what works best for you, however what you've mapped out looks solid to me.
 
wasupmuh33 said:
hows it going fellas i am currently running a 2 week cycle of havoc at 20 mg a day and i can already see a shrinkin of my glandular gyno and a tightening of my puffy a** nips. I am going to buy my PCT supplies tommrow i am going to go with 60x0 extreme tribulus and creatine...should i run the 60x0 for just weeks like my cycle and how about the tribulus? need a little input here gents ur help is greatly appreciated. This stuff is crazy on my strenght!!!
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PM me and i'll help you set up a decent PCT for your havoc cycle.
 
Graglor said:
Start at page one of this thread. Neoborn also has another thread with everything you need to know. All your answers are in both. Good luck.
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Thank you sir. My write-up is still a work in progress. More to be added until i perfect that bad boy! :)
 
Trauma1 I am not sure if my messages are being sent my computer is freaking out have you recieved my personal messages about the PCT? dont want to bother you just checking to see if I am even sending out my questions or not...thanks again
 
wasupmuh33 said:
Trauma1 I am not sure if my messages are being sent my computer is freaking out have you recieved my personal messages about the PCT? dont want to bother you just checking to see if I am even sending out my questions or not...thanks again
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Sorry man, just been busy lately. I have it and i'll be sending a reply shortly. :)
 
Trauma1 said:
If you're looking to add a great compound to stack with Havoc i would suggest Anabolic Xtreme's: 3-AD. I think the two would have a very good synergy. I logged the beta for 3-AD a few months ago. Do a quick search for the log(T1's 3-AD Tester Log Redux) in the supplement review/log section.

Havoc as a compound will give you amazing gains all in itself. If you haven't used havoc before i'd suggest running a Havoc cycle solo to gain knowledge of the compound and its effects on your body.
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Since 3-AD is an "Ester compound" would this add any extra strain on the liver if it were run with a methyl such as Havoc?
 
Ole Skl said:
Since 3-AD is an "Ester compound" would this add any extra strain on the liver if it were run with a methyl such as Havoc?
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Yes - it will add additional stress. However, the degree of that is dependent upon many factors such as dosing, previous/current medical conditions, and total length of time taken.

A non-methyl like 3-AD won't add the degree of liver stress that a methyl would, but it still adds a bit. As long as you aren't abusing the compounds and taking them irresponsibly everything should workout just fine.
 
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so after reading much of the forum on havoc and post cycle therapy, I honest feel like i have gotten myself in two deep and am looking for some advice. I was recommended havoc by a friend. I am entering week 4 of my cycle of 10/20/20/30. Starting weight: 189 lbs Current weight: 195 lbs. I do not plan on exceeding 4 weeks in this cycle, however, I'm pretty confused about the post cycle therapy and what I should get as a first timer. Can you help??
 
I also failed to mention I am running a 12 week stack of BSN's Nitrix, Cellmass, and NoXplode that will continue until August. I need some serious help I think
 
bigverm23 said:
so after reading much of the forum on havoc and post cycle therapy, I honest feel like i have gotten myself in two deep and am looking for some advice. I was recommended havoc by a friend. I am entering week 4 of my cycle of 10/20/20/30. Starting weight: 189 lbs Current weight: 195 lbs. I do not plan on exceeding 4 weeks in this cycle, however, I'm pretty confused about the post cycle therapy and what I should get as a first timer. Can you help??
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You should ALWAYS have your PCT supplements in hand and mapped out before you even start your cycle. PM me and i'll help you get this together. :)
 
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I'll be tweaking and adding more to the Havoc Write-Up either tonight or tomorrow guys. I hope to get in a sample PCT also for guidance in setting it up. :D
 
I keep hearing that Havoc and Epistane are the same and should be treated as such; can anyone explain to me why they look rather different and if there are any pros/cons of the two?
Epistane - 2,3a-Epithio-17a-methyletioallo cholan-17b-ol
Havoc - 2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan- 17b-ol
 
they are both technically the same, but we chose the common name in accordance with the labeing guidelines set forth, rather than try to obscure the name to deflect attention.
 
grazidi said:
yes, use both because i am dieting down. i do not want to put weight on. i want to cut and harden.
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Havoc in itself will suppress estrogen to a degree due to the compounds AI qualities. You don't need to use an AI with it.

If you diet is geared correctly, you can make a very nice lean bulk/recomp cycle with Havoc. Remember - Having a diet specifically set-up for something like this is absolutely paramount. If done correctly, the results should be amazing. :D
 
Trauma1 said:
Havoc in itself will suppress estrogen to a degree due to the compounds AI qualities. You don't need to use an AI with it.

If you diet is geared correctly, you can make a very nice lean bulk/recomp cycle with Havoc. Remember - Having a diet specifically set-up for something like this is absolutely paramount. If done correctly, the results should be amazing. :D
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yea, thats the thing is i am not concerned with any lean/bulking. its a little to late to put on size. i am only concerned with cutting/hardening. my diet and training and cardio r dialled in. check out my pix from last summer, just so u know i live for this sport and am serious. steroid free!
 
Pics look good! As long as you have you diet dialed in you should be good to go. Good luck with this bud and make sure to post up a thread when you start it. :D
 
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