Havoc Log

P4D2A022 said:
a lot of ppl say that dhea is useless.. havent tried it yet, but i keep changing my mind on it
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Yeah, same here. I dont think its good in PCT, but in this case it may give me the right amount of Estrogen that I need for libido and joints.
 
Hyde12 said:
Yeah, same here. I dont think its good in post cycle therapy, but in this case it may give me the right amount of Estrogen that I need for libido and joints.
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thats why I took an xmass clone with havoc...I didn't have any of the problems you had taking havoc, you seem to be the exception.
 
grantr said:
thats why I took an xmass clone with havoc...I didn't have any of the problems you had taking havoc, you seem to be the exception.
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I didn't think that Xmass converted to Estrogen due to it being a progestin? What about low dose Phera? would that be bad or too toxic? Maybe I could drop down the dose of Havoc to say 20mg and then add maybe 15mg of Phera?
 
If Havoc turns out to be underdosed (judging from the long thread on Epi/Havoc testing) I'm gonna be so p*****. Then I'm going to bump up the dose. :D
 
Day 15

Ok, feeling a little better today and I will attribute that to the added DHEA. Joints feel fine, Libido is so-so. Strength is still way up and pumps are amazing. I dropped the E-Form because I think it was doing more harm than good. I really want to drop the dosage of Havoc down and add in some Phera Plex (say 15Mg ED). I know you shouldn't stack two methyls, but does anyone know if the dosage is small if it would hurt anything?
 
if you are going to stack two orals, epistane is probably one of the safer choices to do it with.

however id say stick with havoc. its your cycle, do what you want.
 
Hyde12 said:
Ok, feeling a little better today and I will attribute that to the added DHEA. Joints feel fine, Libido is so-so. Strength is still way up and pumps are amazing. I dropped the E-Form because I think it was doing more harm than good. I really want to drop the dosage of Havoc down and add in some Phera Plex (say 15Mg ED). I know you shouldn't stack two methyls, but does anyone know if the dosage is small if it would hurt anything?
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How much dhea are you running?
Im starting havoc Monday and do not feel like having a **** libido or being dried out and having soar joints. I already have joint problems.
 
gogo said:
How much dhea are you running?
Im starting havoc Monday and do not feel like having a **** libido or being dried out and having soar joints. I already have joint problems.
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I'm running 75mgs DHEA. With Havoc, I was expecting Proviron-like libido (due to Havoc being related to DHT) but that hasn't happened. I have a really estrogen sensitive libido and I think I have a naturally low Estrogen level (small nips, dry skin, etc.). So, I'm contemplating backing off the Havoc dose and adding some Phera for a libido gain because Phera makes me a walking hard-on. If I were to run Havoc again I think I would run it with Test or 4AD.
 
right on man, proviron would probubly be a real good addition if you had it, but i guess your already a ways into your cycle..
I would if even something like mass Fx would do the trick...
 
Why not give the DHEA a few days at 25-50mgs and see if things perk up?

But certainly anything Test based should up libido.

Seems from your feedback that Havoc does have some/enough systematic anti-estrogen properties that can impact people like yourself whom are estrogen sensitive to start with. Just a guess.

This is something I should keep in mind should I decide to run Havoc in the future. I too am estrogen sensitive bigtime.
 
Cordeen said:
Why not give the DHEA a few days at 25-50mgs and see if things perk up?

But certainly anything Test based should up libido.

Seems from your feedback that Havoc does have some/enough systematic anti-estrogen properties that can impact people like yourself whom are estrogen sensitive to start with. Just a guess.

This is something I should keep in mind should I decide to run Havoc in the future. I too am estrogen sensitive bigtime.
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I have to give Havoc some credit though because at least with Havoc I can still get it up and I coundn't even do that on Mega TRN. What do you think about adding Phera Plex?
 
Just thinking also, why not keep the dose at 20mgs and add something like Fenugreek while on cycle. That is if you respond well to Fenugreek...or even tribulus for that matter. I read from Dr.D taking Fenugreek on a milder cycle post workout in order to minimize recovery/shutdown and with alot of people Fenugreek brings a strong increase in libido.

Dr.D "Really, that is probably a very effective insurance strategy. I have noticed using medium-high doses of fenugreek post-w/o to contribute to over-all lack of shutdown too, regardless if pulsing or not, and also contributes a desirable glycogenic effect post-w/o and right before bed (if you lift late like me.)"


or maybe even taking both doses of Havoc evenly within the first 12hours of your day then some test stim before bed...something like a 12hour pulse I guess.

Or even reverting to a m,w,f pulse might benefit you too.

Just throwing ideas off the cuff...but I would definitely experiment with things and see what works best for you.
 
Hyde12 said:
I have to give Havoc some credit though because at least with Havoc I can still get it up and I coundn't even do that on Mega TRN. What do you think about adding Phera Plex?
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Pheraplex made my libido lower...unlike alot of people....that is until I added low doses of DHEA...or even DHEA related products such as Retain and Lean Extreme increased it while on cycle. It can be frustrating trying to figure things out when being so estrogen sensitive.
 
Cordeen said:
Just thinking also, why not keep the dose at 20mgs and add something like Fenugreek while on cycle. That is if you respond well to Fenugreek...or even tribulus for that matter. I read from Dr.D taking Fenugreek on a milder cycle post workout in order to minimize recovery/shutdown and with alot of people comes a strong increase in libido.

Dr.D "Really, that is probably a very effective insurance strategy. I have noticed using medium-high doses of fenugreek post-w/o to contribute to over-all lack of shutdown too, regardless if pulsing or not, and also contributes a desirable glycogenic effect post-w/o and right before bed (if you lift late like me.)"


or maybe even taking both doses of Havoc evenly within the first 12hours of your day then seme test stim before bed...something like a 12hour pulse I guess.

Or even reverting to a m,w,f pulse might benefit you too.

Just throwing ideas off the cuff...but I would definitely experiment with things and see what works best for you.
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Some really good ideas here. Fenugreek works for me for a few days, but then it seems to increase prolacin so I get scared and stop it. Maybe I will try it tonight or try to take my dosages early like you said.
 
Hyde12 said:
Some really good ideas here. Fenugreek works for me for a few days, but then it seems to increase prolacin so I get scared and stop it. Maybe I will try it tonight or try to take my dosages early like you said.
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I get the uneasy feeling with the increase in puffy nips while on Fenugreek too...but maybe in this case, the Havoc will offer that extra insurance?
 
Cordeen said:
I get the uneasy feeling with the increase in puffy nips while on Fenugreek too...but maybe in this case, the Havoc will offer that extra insurance?
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True that, I'm gonna try the Fenugreek and drop my Havoc dose to 20mgs. I do notice that when I take my Havoc pills early that my libido starts to climb until I take the evening dose then it goes to hell.
 
I'm really not liking this. I'm thinking about just stopping and taking a shorter PCT. I hate not having a libido!
 
Not satisfying the wifey is def not a good thing.
This log is making me wary of starting my cycle come Monday :(
 
I guess you are not feeling any slight improvements today then?

If not, I understand your frustration. Have any sexual performance supps on hand perhaps?

Anything added or deleted now might need a couple of days to get any significant results. Perhaps the Pheraplex might help if added, since you respond well to it.

On another note I am just curious, how do you respond to most AIs? (6OXO, RR, Form, Etc)
 
it contains almost 90% of the product listed on the label...and the other isomer is still biologically active, just not as strong.

im running testosterone during my current havoc cycle, seems to be aiding greatiny in the libido department, though it was shaky for a frew days.

when in doubt, cialis
 
cialis can cause blindness, **** that ****...My libido wasn't affected by havoc at 30 mg/day for 4 weeks, might have been higher
 
i have never heard of anyone, ever, going blind from taking viagra or cialis. i highly doubt the two most proscribed erectile dysfunction drugs cause blindness side effects on significant levels.

hell, on my last cycle i took 20mgs a day for MONTHS. never had a problem. the most you will get is a slight headache.


did i also mention the drug is entering its final trial stages for treatment of pulmonary hypertension? extra little bonus for the cardiovasular system, albit a very specific part of it
 
I know that my libido has been down considerable and I am only on week 2 of a havoc only cycle. I am not that concerned about it however, cause i can still work the guy if I want too. I have some massfx for pct, and if I react to it like I did BAM im sure to get a strong libido back.
 
jomi822 said:
i have never heard of anyone, ever, going blind from taking viagra or cialis. i highly doubt the two most proscribed erectile dysfunction drugs cause blindness side effects on significant levels.

hell, on my last cycle i took 20mgs a day for MONTHS. never had a problem. the most you will get is a slight headache.


did i also mention the drug is entering its final trial stages for treatment of pulmonary hypertension? extra little bonus for the cardiovasular system, albit a very specific part of it
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it happened to a couple men and it was all over the news, im almost positive it actually says this in the commercials now
 
Ok, started Torm. I wasn't liking how Havoc was making me feel. It felt like a milder version of superdrol, but it crushed my libido about the same as superdrol. I don't think my body reacts well to dry compounds.
 
Great post Hyde, I'm on week 3 of Havoc @ 50mg's a day spaced out thru the day, 20/10/20. Ive got good results so far. I do get back pumps from it which I did not from H-50 last year. On the DHEA, interesting how it affects everyone differently. It gave me a bad case of GYNO back before I knew what that meant. Got all the symptoms first then wahhlaa, titties. Havoc has been helping it. I can swear to that. Great post. I wanna hear more. Reps to you for a good log, I will wait for your pct. Thanks again.
 
ZoRomo77 said:
weird. despite all the debate as to whether or not havoc is effective, i can only say positive things about it. ridiculous strength gains with NO side effects. definitely one of the most effective ph/steroids i've ever tried. i ordered a bottled of epistane to run later on and compare the two. i'll be happy if it does the same as havoc has thus far
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How did you dose it? I am currently running it at 20/30/30/40. I am considering upping that dosage considerably the next time I run it.
 
so i can comfortably say that you are the 3rd person who has given my idea a whirl and gotten results from it?

glad its working hyde, now if i could only convince some of the other guys around here to stop hcg'ing their knads into oblivion 5 months after a failed PCT
 
jomi822 said:
so i can comfortably say that you are the 3rd person who has given my idea a whirl and gotten results from it?

glad its working hyde, now if i could only convince some of the other guys around here to stop hcg'ing their knads into oblivion 5 months after a failed post cycle therapy
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Jomi, since I must have missed it what exactly is your "method."
 
Travis said:
Jomi, since I must have missed it what exactly is your "method."
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in a nutshell, if you dont recover after running a full post cycle therapy, shut yourself down with a decent cycle and try again.

i see a lot of these "failed pct" situations and have run one myself. i was in the hormonal gutter for a very decent amount of months and went back on cycle to completely resuppress my HPTA. after that, i ran pct again and was back in action in a week.

it seems people who are having problems after pct try and tweak things up with hcg, serms, ATD, etc. its a losing battle, i havent seen one person who has been able to get back to normal like this.

hyde is now the 3rd person i know of(one of which is me) who has tried this resuppress and try again approach and had it work.
 
jomi822 said:
in a nutshell, if you dont recover after running a full post cycle therapy, shut yourself down with a decent cycle and try again.

i see a lot of these "failed post cycle therapy" situations and have run one myself. i was in the hormonal gutter for a very decent amount of months and went back on cycle to completely resuppress my HPTA. after that, i ran post cycle therapy again and was back in action in a week.

it seems people who are having problems after post cycle therapy try and tweak things up with hcg, serms, ATD, etc. its a losing battle, i havent seen one person who has been able to get back to normal like this.

hyde is now the 3rd person i know of(one of which is me) who has tried this resuppress and try again approach and had it work.
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interesting......

i remember you posting about this a while back.

what exactly did you do hyde? sorry i missed it.

I feel im having problems now after a long cycle and proper PCT (libido trash, ED probs, gyno) Im just a lil scared to go back on only to have things get worse again.
 
pistonpump said:
interesting......

i remember you posting about this a while back.

what exactly did you do hyde? sorry i missed it.

I feel im having problems now after a long cycle and proper post cycle therapy (libido trash, ED probs, gyno) Im just a lil scared to go back on only to have things get worse again.
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I did a crappy PCT about 9 months ago after taking a mega TRN/Methoxy TST/Mega Zol and my libido has been really low ever since. So Jomi gave me the idea of going back on cycle and then doing a proper PCT as kind of a Testosterone reset and it seems to be working because I stopped taking Torm yesterday and no drop in libido :cheers:
 
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