50-75mgs ed
no more than 100
no more than 100
I'll try 100mgs and see how I feel.50-75mgs ed
no more than 100
Yeah, same here. I dont think its good in PCT, but in this case it may give me the right amount of Estrogen that I need for libido and joints.a lot of ppl say that dhea is useless.. havent tried it yet, but i keep changing my mind on it
thats why I took an xmass clone with havoc...I didn't have any of the problems you had taking havoc, you seem to be the exception.Yeah, same here. I dont think its good in post cycle therapy, but in this case it may give me the right amount of Estrogen that I need for libido and joints.
I didn't think that Xmass converted to Estrogen due to it being a progestin? What about low dose Phera? would that be bad or too toxic? Maybe I could drop down the dose of Havoc to say 20mg and then add maybe 15mg of Phera?thats why I took an xmass clone with havoc...I didn't have any of the problems you had taking havoc, you seem to be the exception.
How much dhea are you running?Ok, feeling a little better today and I will attribute that to the added DHEA. Joints feel fine, Libido is so-so. Strength is still way up and pumps are amazing. I dropped the E-Form because I think it was doing more harm than good. I really want to drop the dosage of Havoc down and add in some Phera Plex (say 15Mg ED). I know you shouldn't stack two methyls, but does anyone know if the dosage is small if it would hurt anything?
I'm running 75mgs DHEA. With Havoc, I was expecting Proviron-like libido (due to Havoc being related to DHT) but that hasn't happened. I have a really estrogen sensitive libido and I think I have a naturally low Estrogen level (small nips, dry skin, etc.). So, I'm contemplating backing off the Havoc dose and adding some Phera for a libido gain because Phera makes me a walking hard-on. If I were to run Havoc again I think I would run it with Test or 4AD.How much dhea are you running?
Im starting havoc Monday and do not feel like having a **** libido or being dried out and having soar joints. I already have joint problems.
I have to give Havoc some credit though because at least with Havoc I can still get it up and I coundn't even do that on Mega TRN. What do you think about adding Phera Plex?Why not give the DHEA a few days at 25-50mgs and see if things perk up?
But certainly anything Test based should up libido.
Seems from your feedback that Havoc does have some/enough systematic anti-estrogen properties that can impact people like yourself whom are estrogen sensitive to start with. Just a guess.
This is something I should keep in mind should I decide to run Havoc in the future. I too am estrogen sensitive bigtime.
I have to give Havoc some credit though because at least with Havoc I can still get it up and I coundn't even do that on Mega TRN. What do you think about adding Phera Plex?
Some really good ideas here. Fenugreek works for me for a few days, but then it seems to increase prolacin so I get scared and stop it. Maybe I will try it tonight or try to take my dosages early like you said.Just thinking also, why not keep the dose at 20mgs and add something like Fenugreek while on cycle. That is if you respond well to Fenugreek...or even tribulus for that matter. I read from Dr.D taking Fenugreek on a milder cycle post workout in order to minimize recovery/shutdown and with alot of people comes a strong increase in libido.
Dr.D "Really, that is probably a very effective insurance strategy. I have noticed using medium-high doses of fenugreek post-w/o to contribute to over-all lack of shutdown too, regardless if pulsing or not, and also contributes a desirable glycogenic effect post-w/o and right before bed (if you lift late like me.)"
or maybe even taking both doses of Havoc evenly within the first 12hours of your day then seme test stim before bed...something like a 12hour pulse I guess.
Or even reverting to a m,w,f pulse might benefit you too.
Just throwing ideas off the cuff...but I would definitely experiment with things and see what works best for you.
Some really good ideas here. Fenugreek works for me for a few days, but then it seems to increase prolacin so I get scared and stop it. Maybe I will try it tonight or try to take my dosages early like you said.
True that, I'm gonna try the Fenugreek and drop my Havoc dose to 20mgs. I do notice that when I take my Havoc pills early that my libido starts to climb until I take the evening dose then it goes to hell.I get the uneasy feeling with the increase in puffy nips while on Fenugreek too...but maybe in this case, the Havoc will offer that extra insurance?
how do you space out the doses of dhea?
This is the reason this will be my last oral only cycle.Not satisfying the wifey is def not a good thing.
This log is making me wary of starting my cycle come Monday
hes taking havoc... if those results are true it contains 2 materials, no? and isnt even potent. So, wouldnt that affect him?What?
I thought viagra caused blindness? So, cialis does the same thing?cialis can cause blindness, **** that ****...My libido wasn't affected by havoc at 30 mg/day for 4 weeks, might have been higher
You guys are talking like your chances are "like 1 in a 100?" "..I would say more like 1 in a million.."I thought viagra caused blindness? So, cialis does the same thing?
it happened to a couple men and it was all over the news, im almost positive it actually says this in the commercials nowi have never heard of anyone, ever, going blind from taking viagra or cialis. i highly doubt the two most proscribed erectile dysfunction drugs cause blindness side effects on significant levels.
hell, on my last cycle i took 20mgs a day for MONTHS. never had a problem. the most you will get is a slight headache.
did i also mention the drug is entering its final trial stages for treatment of pulmonary hypertension? extra little bonus for the cardiovasular system, albit a very specific part of it
do you have a SERM? you will want one!
MassFX alone, is NOT enough!
How did you dose it? I am currently running it at 20/30/30/40. I am considering upping that dosage considerably the next time I run it.weird. despite all the debate as to whether or not havoc is effective, i can only say positive things about it. ridiculous strength gains with NO side effects. definitely one of the most effective ph/steroids i've ever tried. i ordered a bottled of epistane to run later on and compare the two. i'll be happy if it does the same as havoc has thus far
I did 30 the whole time.How did you dose it? I am currently running it at 20/30/30/40. I am considering upping that dosage considerably the next time I run it.
I think that my Estrogen just got too low. I would probably run Havoc/Epistane again, but I would run it with Test.i did 30 on week one /40 on week two /and 30 till the bottle ran out.
so the jomi822 method is working for you?:thumbsup: Well, I'm about a week into post cycle therapy and I'm already almost recovered
so the jomi822 method is working for you?
libido, sex drive, testicle size is being recovered?
Jomi, since I must have missed it what exactly is your "method."so i can comfortably say that you are the 3rd person who has given my idea a whirl and gotten results from it?
glad its working hyde, now if i could only convince some of the other guys around here to stop hcg'ing their knads into oblivion 5 months after a failed post cycle therapy
in a nutshell, if you dont recover after running a full post cycle therapy, shut yourself down with a decent cycle and try again.Jomi, since I must have missed it what exactly is your "method."
interesting......in a nutshell, if you dont recover after running a full post cycle therapy, shut yourself down with a decent cycle and try again.
i see a lot of these "failed post cycle therapy" situations and have run one myself. i was in the hormonal gutter for a very decent amount of months and went back on cycle to completely resuppress my HPTA. after that, i ran post cycle therapy again and was back in action in a week.
it seems people who are having problems after post cycle therapy try and tweak things up with hcg, serms, ATD, etc. its a losing battle, i havent seen one person who has been able to get back to normal like this.
hyde is now the 3rd person i know of(one of which is me) who has tried this resuppress and try again approach and had it work.
interesting......
i remember you posting about this a while back.
what exactly did you do hyde? sorry i missed it.
I feel im having problems now after a long cycle and proper post cycle therapy (libido trash, ED probs, gyno) Im just a lil scared to go back on only to have things get worse again.
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