Havoc Before and After Pics

[mathis50262]

Who cares, he's going to do it reguardless of what anyones says, hell he already did.... What is the point of picking him apart for his choice to cycle early? Who cares, he ran a cycle, and made awsome gains .. On that note, "dude, nice gains, looking great". MHO

 

[b unit]

Who cares, he's going to do it reguardless of what anyones says, hell he already did.... What is the point of picking him apart for his choice to cycle early? Who cares, he ran a cycle, and made awsome gains ..

the "picking him apart" done by certain posters may not influence the original poster however it may be of help to anyone that maybe considering running a cycle regardless of the length of time they've been training or their age.

:thumbsup:

 

[mathis50262]

the "picking him apart" done by certain posters may not influence the original poster however it may be of help to anyone than maybe considering running a cycle regardless of the length of time they've been training or their age.

:thumbsup:

Agreed!

 

[searcyc2]

It appears as though he is flexing some in the second pic esp in the trap/pec areas. I wouldn't be surprised if the second pic was taken right after a full body workout to get the pumped look. Lighting also appears a bit better in the 2nd pic. Just my opinion. I mean there were definite gains, however not as much as it looks though.

 

[b unit]

It appears as though he is flexing some in the second pic esp in the trap/pec areas. I wouldn't be surprised if the second pic was taken right after a full body workout to get the pumped look. Lighting also appears a bit better in the 2nd pic. Just my opinion. I mean there were definite gains, however not as much as it looks though.

are you saying that the pics are inspired by the muscletech advertising handbook of before and after pics?

 

[ogdlow]

yeh. also my tan makes me look more cut

 

[ogdlow]

total weight gain is 13lbs

 

[Mulletsoldier]

Obviously, you shouldn't have even conjured up the thought process to put your finger on that button that says, "Purchase Now" for a long, long, long, and once more long, long time. With that being said, you've already done it - I just wouldn't do it again for a long, long, long and once more long, long time....seriously, a long time.

 

[Frequency]

He said he was a runner. What is wrong with being an endurance athlete?. Do people somehow think that you have to be a bodybuilder or powerlifter to benefit from a steroid cycle?. I don't understand that mentality.

That doesnt negate the point that he was far from ready. Im not sure how much i believe the 1.5 years of lifting. Was it all lifting and no eating? Really i dont care though as it doesnt really change much. The main problem i have with threads like these is that i have a little brother who wants to be in shape like me along with his little buddies and i certainly dont want them looking at these kind of post with the thought that its perfectly ok to go this route. I only see him once a week and i do my best to keep him on the straight and narrow but curiousity and impatience usually gets the best of young teens and i dont want that for him or his friends.

 

[T-Bone]

That doesnt negate the point that he was far from ready. Im not sure how much i believe the 1.5 years of lifting. Was it all lifting and no eating? Really i dont care though as it doesnt really change much. The main problem i have with threads like these is that i have a little brother who wants to be in shape like me along with his little buddies and i certainly dont want them looking at these kind of post with the thought that its perfectly ok to go this route. I only see him once a week and i do my best to keep him on the straight and narrow but curiousity and impatience usually gets the best of young teens and i dont want that for him or his friends.

I don't understand your reply to my post. What is "ready"?. My point was that everyone seems to think that only bodybuilders/powerlifters benefit from steroid use. Hasn't anyone heard of endurance atheletes using "gear"?. Just because the guy doesn't appear to have a bodybuilders body doesn't make him any less of an athlete. There are people that want to increase the strength slow twitch fibers as opposed to fast twitch. We all have different goals. You assume that the orignal posters goal was to gain massive amounts of strength and increase the muscle mass.....


Why the one-sided point of view?. The original poster is not a teenager. That would be different. Sure maybe he could have waited a few years, but really would that make much of difference?.

 

[Frequency]

He didnt look athletic in any way shape or form pre-usage. That is my point. Since when were athletic athletes pudgy and scrawny? Hell i hate to call him out like that but really? Lets see those wheels. He's a marathoner and he is only interested in showing us is upper body gains

 

[BigCasino]

Can I be a bit blunt and say the OP really didn't need steroids to get those results in 8 weeks...

+1

Nice gains and all, but yeah you looked like you had never seen a weight before havoc, and in the shape you started in you could have made those gains VERY easily naturally. You might want to consider that in the future. Either way though, you had to work hard and train and eat for that type of development, so I commend you on that. Noticeable improvement.

 

[mathis50262]

I don't understand your reply to my post. What is "ready"?. My point was that everyone seems to think that only bodybuilders/powerlifters benefit from steroid use. Hasn't anyone heard of endurance atheletes using "gear"?. Just because the guy doesn't appear to have a bodybuilders body doesn't make him any less of an athlete. There are people that want to increase the strength slow twitch fibers as opposed to fast twitch. We all have different goals. You assume that the orignal posters goal was to gain massive amounts of strength and increase the muscle mass.....


Why the one-sided point of view?. The original poster is not a teenager. That would be different. Sure maybe he could have waited a few years, but really would that make much of difference?.

Nice post

 

[Frank Reynolds]

This **** is getting ridiculous..

If it were a respected, long time member, who posted this, everyone would be kissing his ass. I see logs all the time of people doing PH cycles, and they don't look like they are near their potential, and should continue on naturally. But because they are long time, or avid posters here, their logs hit 10+ pages of praise...

I'll be the first to admit, i have done a cycle or two before i ever should have or was ready. And looking back, i wish i didn't, but it was my decision to make.

I understand you want to put the potential health risks, and other issues out there, for others to see. But at the end of the day, people are going to make their own decisions, and shouldn't be faulted for that.

 

[T-Bone]

This **** is getting ridiculous..

If it were a respected, long time member, who posted this, everyone would be kissing his ass. I see logs all the time of people doing PH cycles, and they don't look like they are near their potential, and should continue on naturally. But because they are long time, or avid posters here, their logs hit 10+ pages of praise...

Exactly. :goodpost:

 

[Frequency]

This **** is getting ridiculous..

If it were a respected, long time member, who posted this, everyone would be kissing his ass. I see logs all the time of people doing PH cycles, and they don't look like they are near their potential, and should continue on naturally. But because they are long time, or avid posters here, their logs hit 10+ pages of praise...

I'll be the first to admit, i have done a cycle or two before i ever should have or was ready. And looking back, i wish i didn't, but it was my decision to make.

I understand you want to put the potential health risks, and other issues out there, for others to see. But at the end of the day, people are going to make their own decisions, and shouldn't be faulted for that.

Change the everyone to most if that long term poster looks anything like this guy. I could give a rats ass about winning a popularity contest here or being on any long term members good side. Im here to learn and thats about it. If i can contribute to a thread then i will but im really here to expand my knowledge. Also i certainly dont have the mentality that you need to be 200+ lbs or have had to have been training for 20+ years to run a cycle. I do however feel that you should have put some sort of effort into your body considering you could seriously hurt yourself if you havent. Also i looked back at his eariler post this guy made in this thread and he already stated that this cycle was for mainly for gains.

 

[nattydisaster]

Nice gains man. Keep the cals up to reduce losing them

 

[ogdlow]

What is "ready"?. My point was that everyone seems to think that only bodybuilders/powerlifters benefit from steroid use. Hasn't anyone heard of endurance atheletes using "gear"?.

I think bottom line is that there are/can bad sides from the use of PH. ...

Hell Even the celeberties are using HGH at the age of 50+. Men and women WTF.. And Im sure that all those baseball players arent bodybuilders.... ummmm. and what about lance armstrong and his "sports Cream"......

Well I guess u can judge me all u want but.

so u tell me becasue I show a before picture .. one that i look fragile with a after one that i look solid. I should have never used. ..... dude come on..:bruce3:

 

[T-Bone]

I for one have a lot more respect for endurance atheletes like Lance Armstrong than pro bodybuilders like Ronnie Coleman. I'd love to see the big age try and even compete in a 5K!. He would probably drop dead within the first 20 minutes!.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

I think bottom line is that there are/can bad sides from the use of PH. ...

Hell Even the celeberties are using HGH at the age of 50+. Men and women WTF.. And Im sure that all those baseball players arent bodybuilders.... ummmm. and what about lance armstrong and his "sports Cream"......

Well I guess u can judge me all u want but.

so u tell me becasue I show a before picture .. one that i look fragile with a after one that i look solid. I should have never used. ..... dude come on..:bruce3:

Don't take too much offense, but the point is that you do not necessarily look solid in the 'after'. But rather you made considerable improvements.

 

[Frequency]

I think bottom line is that there are/can bad sides from the use of PH. ...

Hell Even the celeberties are using HGH at the age of 50+. Men and women WTF.. And Im sure that all those baseball players arent bodybuilders.... ummmm. and what about lance armstrong and his "sports Cream"......

Well I guess u can judge me all u want but.

so u tell me becasue I show a before picture .. one that i look fragile with a after one that i look solid. I should have never used. ..... dude come on..:bruce3:

You make it sound like you couldnt do that without the havoc. As far as people 50+ using HGH; there is nothing wrong with that. At that age your body isnt hardly producing any so im missing the complaint there. As far as the athletes using it im sure they didnt look like you when they started and if they did shame on them. No one said steroids are only meant for bodybuilding so that notion needs to be thrown out for good. Most of those athletes use steroids because they have reached their genetic potential in that particular sport and im all for steroids in sports. You have reached no genetic potential what so ever so that doesnt help your point at all. Basically i dont give a rats ass what you or anyone else decides to use steroids for but if your not going to use with a little common sense then it doesnt need to be posted here or anywhere else for that matter.

 

[Frank Reynolds]

Change the everyone to most if that long term poster looks anything like this guy. I could give a rats ass about winning a popularity contest here or being on any long term members good side. Im here to learn and thats about it. If i can contribute to a thread then i will but im really here to expand my knowledge. Also i certainly dont have the mentality that you need to be 200+ lbs or have had to have been training for 20+ years to run a cycle. I do however feel that you should have put some sort of effort into your body considering you could seriously hurt yourself if you havent. Also i looked back at his eariler post this guy made in this thread and he already stated that this cycle was for mainly for gains.

Ya, i don't mean literally "everyone" but allot of people..lol

I totally agree with the "put some effort in" It really bothers me when people use steroids as a crutch. But i can say my peace about it, and move on.

The thing is we don't REALLY know anyones situation. It is easy for a bunch of 18-25 year olds to tell this guy he should be making those types of gains naturally, when he infact it may be very hard for him to make any gains at all.

 

[ogdlow]

Ok. I will keep my post to the true nature of my thread. and that is My story of Before and After. SO if anybody whats to follow this thread and is intrested i will keep posting my results... as for all the sidebar. whatever. However AM is a place to Learn, Teach, and Lead so i understand if anybody wants to post their 2cents..

 

[Frequency]

Ya, i don't mean literally "everyone" but allot of people..lol

I totally agree with the "put some effort in" It really bothers me when people use steroids as a crutch. But i can say my peace about it, and move on.

The thing is we don't REALLY know anyones situation. It is easy for a bunch of 18-25 year olds to tell this guy he should be making those types of gains naturally, when he in fact it may be very hard for him to make any gains at all.

Unfortunately i have a hard time letting things go until i know my point driven in and clear lol. That and i love to debate. True hat you dont know anyones situation but at least half the guys use the excuse that they are "hard gainers". The reality is though that half these guys ignorant in more than just steroids usage which most likely is affecting their gains. I think the thing that bugs me most is that this guy is saying he is 33 and exuding no wisdom in the least bit or any common sense for that matter in his defense. But what ever. Ive said my piece lol. Haha Im surprised they havent locked this yet

 

[b unit]

I for one have a lot more respect for endurance atheletes like Lance Armstrong than pro bodybuilders like Ronnie Coleman. I'd love to see the big age try and even compete in a 5K!. He would probably drop dead within the first 20 minutes!.

you're comparing apples to oranges

they are both champions in their own chosen sport

to say u'd love to see ronnie do a 5k run is like saying i'd love to see lance hit a 800lb squat, it ain't gonna happen.

i respect top level athletes whatever sport, it still takes the same amount of dedication to reach the top and stay there.

 

[b unit]

Ok. I will keep my post to the true nature of my thread. and that is My story of Before and After. SO if anybody whats to follow this thread and is intrested i will keep posting my results... as for all the sidebar. whatever. However AM is a place to Learn, Teach, and Lead so i understand if anybody wants to post their 2cents..

although i think you may have hit a cycle too early into your lifting "career" i respect the fact that you are 31 and have a right to do as you please.

i also respect the fact that you have kept your composure on this thread as you are getting a fair amount of "heat"


:thumbsup:

 

[Ziricote]

Man this thread just went silly. Like I said earlier I think you could've seen those results in the same time frame without the steroids, with that said I'm not about to give you a hard time for going down that route as long as you followed PCT and I'm not so sure anyone else should either.

I'm not so sure about you being a runner though...I mean you look really soft in that first picture, not what my experience of regular runners has been at all, especially ones that also do weights. Maybe your diet is too anti-carb or something? idk.

 

[FrankJ]

bullshit back at ya

Those "gains" are ephemeral. Did his tendon and joints grow stronger as well? Nope, not at the same rate as the muscles. This will lead to an early injury. He would have been much better off in the long run by working hard for a few years to build a foundation and then MAYBE use some steroids. Right now it is all an illusion. No real foundation and will only lead to injury and havoc on his endocrine system. :hammer:

Dude go take your anti-steroid rant somewhere else, it has no place in this thread.

Sounds like you are jealous anyway.

 

[FrankJ]

Ok. I will keep my post to the true nature of my thread. and that is My story of Before and After. SO if anybody whats to follow this thread and is intrested i will keep posting my results... as for all the sidebar. whatever. However AM is a place to Learn, Teach, and Lead so i understand if anybody wants to post their 2cents..

You made good gains bro - good job.

Dont listen to these pussies that wont post their own pictures up. They like to act like they are experts but in reality they are 15 year old punks who weigh 125lbs, lol. Im sure they would love to make those same gains in 3 weeks.

 

[Ace5high]

You made good gains bro - good job.

Dont listen to these pussies that wont post their own pictures up. They like to act like they are experts but in reality they are 15 year old punks who weigh 125lbs, lol. Im sure they would love to make those same gains in 3 weeks.

Why would you promote someone obviously inexpirenced to take steriods?

This is just nuts to me... You want to preach a feel good sermon to someone who uses steriods way to soon, and could have had those same results natural?
Listen up, there can be serious side effects to using any prohormone pro-steriod. Try actually considering peoples health before playing "the buddy role" cause it feels nice.

Aren't these forums for promoting healthy educated ways of using substances anyway?

 

[StanChampion]

Dude go take your anti-steroid rant somewhere else, it has no place in this thread.

Sounds like you are jealous anyway.

anti-steroid? You missed the point completely. I will state it again just for you, read it a few times to make it sink in.

A complete novice lifter has no business taking steroids. :hammer:

Teach and Learn are motto's of this board. The critical criticism of OD is justified. Some are trying to teach OD that using steroids without any foundation or reaching your body's natural limits is dangerous. Hopefully, OD will learn that using steroids is OK, but should only be utilized later in a lifting career. Using steroids when you are just starting to work out will lead only to trouble.

jealous? Are you 14? :fool2:

 

[ReaperX]

I bet Lance Armstrong was using some drugs when he won the tour de france all those times.

 

[DreamWeaver]

anti-steroid? You missed the point completely. I will state it again just for you, read it a few times to make it sink in.

A complete novice lifter has no business taking steroids. :hammer:

Teach and Learn are motto's of this board. The critical criticism of OD is justified. Some are trying to teach OD that using steroids without any foundation or reaching your body's natural limits is dangerous. Hopefully, OD will learn that using steroids is OK, but should only be utilized later in a lifting career. Using steroids when you are just starting to work out will lead only to trouble.

jealous? Are you 14? :fool2:

I think you make a good point. I always avoid young people stay away from these kinds of drugs. There is so much that can be accomplished without them. Later on when genetic potential has been reached perhaps then it may be time to use something.

Even then I think a person should have a good reason to use something. For me when I reached 45 I found that the amount of effort I was putting in no longer returned the same results so I did a couple of cycles of 1Test/4ad transdermal. A couple years later after a long hiatus I found that it was even harder to make progress so I did a couple Halodrol cycles. This year I did a Furazadrol cycle to help me burn some fat. I don't plan on doing any more as it just isn't worth it when there are so many good herbal products. I don't know if my use was justified but I caved and used for those reasons. All I can say is if your going to use something make sure you think about your reasons for doing so. Why young people feel they have to use... well it's a bit of a mystery to me, just try and be more patient.

 

[nateo1979]

ogdlow

Keep Posting.. Great results. Let the haters hate. Gonna do a cycle of Spawn (havoc/epistane + Extreme Tren) once I get a hold of a proper PCT.

Can you be a little more detailed with your log? Weight Gain, Strength gain, etc.

 

[b unit]

I bet Lance Armstrong was using some drugs when he won the tour de france all those times.

i bet you're right :thumbsup:

 

[LatSpread]

Just curious OP, in your after picture your skins completely red, did you get sunburned or get bad problems with high blood pressure?

This worries me as in the Epistane testimonials on NP guy mentioned being Irish and his skin turning from white to red while working out, he says this as if its a good thing, but typically that is not the case.

I didnt think it would give gypertension issues as its a dry compound, but with these new designer PH's its better safe than sorry.

Im asking as Im considering a havoc cycle in the near future.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

Just curious OP, in your after picture your skins completely red, did you get sunburned or get bad problems with high blood pressure?

This worries me as in the Epistane testimonials on NP guy mentioned being Irish and his skin turning from white to red while working out, he says this as if its a good thing, but typically that is not the case.

I didnt think it would give gypertension issues as its a dry compound, but with these new designer PH's its better safe than sorry.

Im asking as Im considering a havoc cycle in the near future.

Redness in the picture is from a pump - he got a little pumped for the pic.

 

[b unit]

also possibly a tanning bed session or 2 or 3?

 

[Frequency]

anti-steroid? You missed the point completely. I will state it again just for you, read it a few times to make it sink in.

A complete novice lifter has no business taking steroids. :hammer:

Teach and Learn are motto's of this board. The critical criticism of OD is justified. Some are trying to teach OD that using steroids without any foundation or reaching your body's natural limits is dangerous. Hopefully, OD will learn that using steroids is OK, but should only be utilized later in a lifting career. Using steroids when you are just starting to work out will lead only to trouble.

jealous? Are you 14? :fool2:

worse. he is a 37 year old ignorant troll:woohoo:

 

[ogdlow]

blood pressure was fine.. however i only check it 1 a week. as for the redness. I was in the sun all day the day the pic was taken.

as for it being dry... I drank water and still felt thirsty quite often... I never felt any bloat like when you take creatine. Just a very Hard Pump all the DAM TIME>>> It is great.

 

[b unit]

this thread has had a bit of everything going on, knocks, praise, rants and even abuse, gotta love A.M :thumbsup:

 

[Trauma1]

Yeah - This thread has certainly become erratic at best lol!

 

[RoadBlocK]

Im enjoying it.:fool2:

 

[b unit]

Im enjoying it.:fool2:

me too.

it's classic stuff,

all the original poster did was post a couple of results pics as he seemed quite pleased with himself - next thing you know it's a sh*tfight!
:jaw:

 

[RoadBlocK]

me too.

it's classic stuff,

all the original poster did was post a couple of results pics as he seemed quite pleased with himself - next thing you know it's a sh*tfight!
:jaw:

Sup b unit, I thought he looked like he made some nice gains, maybe he jumped the gun a little, whose to say, but I love the left and right extremes we got in here, it makes me laugh.

 

[b unit]

Sup b unit, I thought he looked like he made some nice gains, maybe he jumped the gun a little, whose to say, but I love the left and right extremes we got in here, it makes me laugh.

i'm pretty much staying neutral on it RB, sort like you are, on one hand, the dude's 31 and not 19 so he's old enough to make his own decisions but on the other hand he's only been lifting for a year and a half so it's kind of early to hit something like epi.

in saying that though he did ok in the gains dept considering the short time he was on epi, but as they say - "it's not what happens when you're on that counts, it what happens once you're off that is the true indicator to the gains you make."

:thumbsup:

 

[LatSpread]

Redness in the picture is from a pump - he got a little pumped for the pic.

I see, I never seem to be red when I get a muscle pump, but I guess without taking a pre and postWO picture I might not be able to accurately comment on that.

Can anyone else attest to the fact one gets red when pumped?

(Im not saying that people getting a pump doesnt turn them red, just that in 6yrs of lifting I'd never seen much of a corelation between the two excpet when on PH's that had me pumped but also had my bp through the roof, seems like when Im on Ether and other supps I'll get a huge pump but no noticable redness nor any raise in bp, but again without pics I doubt Id notice much)

 

[Trauma1]

me too.

it's classic stuff,

all the original poster did was post a couple of results pics as he seemed quite pleased with himself - next thing you know it's a sh*tfight!
:jaw:

Lol - Exactly. I had to do it haha!

 

[b unit]

I see, I never seem to be red when I get a muscle pump, but I guess without taking a pre and postWO picture I might not be able to accurately comment on that.

Can anyone else attest to the fact one gets red when pumped?

Definition of Pump:
The look and feeling a bodybuilder experiences when his/her muscles engorge with blood as the result of intense exercise.

Therefore with blood being the colour red and if the skin is white with low BF levels, just maybe - one might turn a slight shade of red when pumped.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1075/1359253403_091cb55562_o.jpg
http://www.2-bodybuilding.com/uploads/posts/1171452891_p4010387.jpg

also the OP said that he was in the sun that day, it's pretty clear by looking at the after pic that he was exposed to UV light.

 

[b unit]

Lol - Exactly. I had to do it haha!

lol, me too