Having trouble making a decision on my cycle

[RIPDanDuchaine]

I was planning to stop the test and deca for the cycle. The cycle is already bought, paid for and on it's way so I'm going to use it. I'm going to have my diet and exercise on point (as much as can be expected working out from home).

 

[RIPDanDuchaine]

You going to be disappointed in this cycle, I would recommend to just cut hardcore, like no carbs maybe ever type of cut, before you use the Primo. I would (maybe) understand if you had an insane amount of muscle mass under that fat that you wanted to “save” while cutting but otherwise Primo will do next to nothing. Cut first, cycle after.

I have a lot of muscle mass under this fat. So, my goal is to lean out but keep all the muscle I still have under the layers of fat.

 

[Renew1]

I was planning to stop the test and deca for the cycle. The cycle is already bought, paid for and on it's way so I'm going to use it. I'm going to have my diet and exercise on point (as much as can be expected working out from home).

Get 'er done.

If diet and exercise aren't on point, you'll almost certainly gain more fat on this cycle, instead of losing it.

 

[Jinsun]

I was planning to stop the test and deca for the cycle. The cycle is already bought, paid for and on it's way so I'm going to use it. I'm going to have my diet and exercise on point (as much as can be expected working out from home).

Nobody is saying not to use it bro. Don't know why you keep repeating this. We are saying to start the cut without all of this gear and when you drop to 16% or at least 20%, then start the cycle.

The problem is that you've got a lot to loose. And because of that, you would have to be on a long long, whole year long, or longer even, cycle. You haven't mentioned anything about your end goals, at what %bf you intend to stop, but, I presume you want to loose more then just 10 pounds ... Getting down from 30 to let's say 20% is one cutting phase. Then getting from 20 to 15% is another, and lastly from 15% to 10 is the last. All of this cutting phases require different approaches to cutting and will also be different in how difficult they'll be.

If you want to cut in one single phase and end at app 16% bf, you'll be in a cut for 6, 8 months, or more. You can't cycle for that long. This is why you should cut for the first couple of months without anything and then start the cycle when it gets hard, when you'll actually need the help of the extra androgens.

Getting down from 30 to 20, I doubt you would loose any MM being natty! On 250 test + 150 deca, you wont loose any muscle, period, that's enough to preserve and help with energy, etc. (it's enough tbh to get down to 10%, but you've got your mind set up already). Then when it starts to get harder to loose bf and when you start getting drained, ... do a 2, 3, weeks recomp, and then start your planed cycle.

But if you've got your mind set up to blast now, if you're bored and just want to be roided up, well, do it. I've said my peace.

 

[trumac]

You’re going to use it now either way it seems so just make sure everything is really on point so you aren’t disappointed. Primo ain’t cheap, don’t wanna feel like you wasted it

 

[Whisky]

You’re going to use it now either way it seems so just make sure everything is really on point so you aren’t disappointed. Primo ain’t cheap, don’t wanna feel like you wasted it

the advice has been consistent throughout the thread......

gonna have to watch that estrogen though, aromatase will be significantly higher at that bf

 

[trumac]

the advice has been consistent throughout the thread......

gonna have to watch that estrogen though, aromatase will be significantly higher at that bf

Agreed. The advice has been consistent. At this point all we can do is either leave the thread as we won’t be changing his mind or we can try to help him mitigate any potential issues.

 

[BBiceps]

I have a lot of muscle mass under this fat. So, my goal is to lean out but keep all the muscle I still have under the layers of fat.

Didn’t you say you weighed 220?

 

[jtbull]

No, I'm just experimenting.

My usual cruise is 250mg/week. But, I didn't realize that was potentially problematic.

Dan

what kind of total T you getting off that Cruise? I was at 200mg and my damn test was like 1700 total t and the damn physicians assistants ( all females) went weeping to their desks to hide under them. 150mg seems to keep me in the 790-850 range. I have thought of adding deca to a cruise and have a 300mg ml deca/npp blend but i know if i do 150 a week that is 1/2 cc and doing 1/4 or 1/3 cc is so damn hard to read.

 

[Hyde]

Maybe I am missing what’s going on here.

You will be running 250 test e, and dropping your 300 in nandrolones for 400 primo and a bit of Var & Ostarine, essentially, yes?

Nothing dramatic here; essentially just a slightly more aggressive modification to his hot cruise protocol skewed more towards a slow cut.

Should be easy to control aromatization, drier cycle, a little more androgen. Seems safe enough - it’s just going to be a very mild boost, and very dependent on diet/cardio for results, like any good fatloss phase will. Just don’t expect the drugs to really do the work here.

Small dose changes, small rewards. Which may be fine in the context of someone who has a ways to diet to get where they want to go. Baby cycle (compared to his HRT) for 4 months, back down to a smaller HRT of 300mg total for 8 weeks or so, then a more aggressive blast later kind of thing.

Anybody feel free to weigh in on that and discuss why it does or doesn’t seem worth it.

 

[trumac]

Maybe I am missing what’s going on here.

You will be running 250 test e, and dropping your 300 in nandrolones for 400 primo and a bit of Var & Ostarine, essentially, yes?

Nothing dramatic here; essentially just a slightly more aggressive modification to his hot cruise protocol skewed more towards a slow cut.

Should be easy to control aromatization, drier cycle, a little more androgen. Seems safe enough - it’s just going to be a very mild boost, and very dependent on diet/cardio for results, like any good fatloss phase will. Just don’t expect the drugs to really do the work here.

Small dose changes, small rewards. Which may be fine in the context of someone who has a ways to diet to get where they want to go. Baby cycle (compared to his HRT) for 4 months, back down to a smaller HRT of 300mg total for 8 weeks or so, then a more aggressive blast later kind of thing.

Anybody feel free to weigh in on that and discuss why it does or doesn’t seem worth it.

I completely forgot he was on TRT during this discussion. Between the derails and all I was thinking he was going to have to pct and was just extending a cycle he already started.

 

[Whisky]

Maybe I am missing what’s going on here.

You will be running 250 test e, and dropping your 300 in nandrolones for 400 primo and a bit of Var & Ostarine, essentially, yes?

Nothing dramatic here; essentially just a slightly more aggressive modification to his hot cruise protocol skewed more towards a slow cut.

Should be easy to control aromatization, drier cycle, a little more androgen. Seems safe enough - it’s just going to be a very mild boost, and very dependent on diet/cardio for results, like any good fatloss phase will. Just don’t expect the drugs to really do the work here.

Small dose changes, small rewards. Which may be fine in the context of someone who has a ways to diet to get where they want to go. Baby cycle (compared to his HRT) for 4 months, back down to a smaller HRT of 300mg total for 8 weeks or so, then a more aggressive blast later kind of thing.

Anybody feel free to weigh in on that and discuss why it does or doesn’t seem worth it.

‘It's already bought and paid for. I'm going to be using 400mg/primo 250mg/test and 25mg var daily. Then, I'm going to stack Ostarine and trenvar on top of that. I decided the drop the LGD after reading in Anabolics 2011 that it's more of a mass builder than a fat loss agent, while ostarine can help with fat loss.’

missing the trenavar........

i don’t think we can say that the plan as laid out isn’t going to place additional stressors on the body over and above what is already a cruise dose well above trt.

so in my mind, he’d need to run this blast, then chill at a proper cruise/trt dose for 3 months, then cut again on a blast dose to be getting anywhere near a good body comp. so approx 8-9 months and two blasts

compared to a 3 month trt/cruise dose cut to sub 20% cut now then add the blast doses and 3 months down to sub 15% - 6 months and one blast

obviously I come at it from a health standpoint and would suggest the second option is far better in that regard?

the other concern I would have is that something is wrong on a nutrition and/or training standpoint if one can’t cut from 30 to 20% bf on a trt dose test..... and if those two things aren’t right then throwing more drugs at it isn’t the ideal solution imo

but of course, long term health may not be a concern (I agree it’s not crazy doses at all being looked at but surely just the three orals will hammer the lipids)

just my thought anyway

 

[Jinsun]

lol @BBiceps down woting my post but also giving me a thumbs up. Mixed messages bro, mixed messages XD

The other concern I would have is that something is wrong on a nutrition and/or training standpoint if one can’t cut from 30 to 20% bf on a trt dose test..... and if those two things aren’t right then throwing more drugs at it isn’t the ideal solution imo

Yeah. That's why I speculate that he just want's to roid up a bit ...

 

[BBiceps]

lol @BBiceps down woting my post but also giving me a thumbs up. Mixed messages bro, mixed messages XD



Yeah. That's why I speculate that he just want's to roid up a bit ...

wtf you talking about you nerd? I haven’t down voted anything.

Edit, ok I saw I did by accident, I meant to like your post and accidentally pressed the down vote button, I removed it. You’re still a nerd for calling me out instead of asking me about it.

 

[trumac]

wtf you talking about you nerd? I haven’t down voted anything.

Edit, ok I saw I did by accident, I meant to like your post and accidentally pressed the down vote button, I removed it. You’re still a nerd for calling me out instead of asking me about it.

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[Hyde]

‘It's already bought and paid for. I'm going to be using 400mg/primo 250mg/test and 25mg var daily. Then, I'm going to stack Ostarine and trenvar on top of that. I decided the drop the LGD after reading in Anabolics 2011 that it's more of a mass builder than a fat loss agent, while ostarine can help with fat loss.’

missing the trenavar........

i don’t think we can say that the plan as laid out isn’t going to place additional stressors on the body over and above what is already a cruise dose well above trt.

so in my mind, he’d need to run this blast, then chill at a proper cruise/trt dose for 3 months, then cut again on a blast dose to be getting anywhere near a good body comp. so approx 8-9 months and two blasts

compared to a 3 month trt/cruise dose cut to sub 20% cut now then add the blast doses and 3 months down to sub 15% - 6 months and one blast

obviously I come at it from a health standpoint and would suggest the second option is far better in that regard?

the other concern I would have is that something is wrong on a nutrition and/or training standpoint if one can’t cut from 30 to 20% bf on a trt dose test..... and if those two things aren’t right then throwing more drugs at it isn’t the ideal solution imo

but of course, long term health may not be a concern (I agree it’s not crazy doses at all being looked at but surely just the three orals will hammer the lipids)

just my thought anyway

I didn’t count the 50mg trenavar because that’s literally only a preWO - I have used 210mg Trendione and it’s awesome, but 50 dosed once a day won’t do much body wise. Just like a small shot of Tren base, in and out fast. I mean it makes sense around training, but big picture here.

I think really think your suggestion makes a ton more sense. Drop the nand, focus on diet, wait 3 months of consistent actual cruising to blast for real.

 

[Jinsun]

wtf you talking about you nerd? I haven’t down voted anything.

Edit, ok I saw I did by accident, I meant to like your post and accidentally pressed the down vote button, I removed it. You’re still a nerd for calling me out instead of asking me about it.

lawl how df did you manage to perceive that as anything else but a joke

 

[Renew1]

Invalid Link Removed

Invalid Link Removed

 

[BBiceps]

lawl how df did you manage to perceive that as anything else but a joke

Roid rage

 

[Zvch]

Test, Primo and 30-40mg Ostarine/day, good diet and cardio should be all you need to add a bit of muscle and cut 10-20 lbs in 2 months. I’ve been able to add muscle while simultaneously dropping 15lbs in 8 weeks on a similar stack. If you ditch the Var and whatever else you’re planning on running, this stack should put so little stress on your body that you should be able to transition into a lean bulk stack for another 8 weeks after. Longer cycle, sustained results, more time on = more fun and a better experience. Makes more sense to me. That’s what I would do personally.

I really think too much emphasis is being placed on drugs and not enough emphasis is being placed on basic principles - mental discipline, nutrition, hard training, overall health.

 

[Zvch]

Test, Primo and 30-40mg Ostarine/day, good diet and cardio should be all you need to add a bit of muscle and cut 10-20 lbs in 2 months. I’ve been able to add muscle while simultaneously dropping 15lbs in 8 weeks on a similar stack. If you ditch the Var and whatever else you’re planning on running, this stack should put so little stress on your body that you should be able to transition into a lean bulk stack for another 8 weeks after. Longer cycle, sustained results, more time on = more fun and a better experience. Makes more sense to me. That’s what I would do personally.

I really think too much emphasis is being placed on drugs and not enough emphasis is being placed on basic principles - mental discipline, nutrition, hard training, overall health.

 

[Zvch]

I have a lot of muscle mass under this fat. So, my goal is to lean out but keep all the muscle I still have under the layers of fat.

Here’s my middle of the road solution.

Test, Primo and 30-40mg Ostarine/day, good diet and cardio should be all you need to add a bit of muscle and cut 10-20 lbs in 2 months. I’ve been able to add muscle while simultaneously dropping 15lbs in 8 weeks on a similar stack. You won’t lose muscle. This is the one area where Ostarine really shines.

If you ditch the Var and whatever else you’re planning on running, this stack should put so little stress on your body that you should be able to transition into a lean bulk stack for another 8 weeks after. Longer cycle, sustained results, more time on = more fun and a better experience. Makes more sense to me. That’s what I would do personally.

I really think we all tend to place too much emphasis on drugs and not enough emphasis on basic principles - mental discipline, nutrition, hard training, overall health.

 

[shanewilliams]

You going to be disappointed in this cycle, I would recommend to just cut hardcore, like no carbs maybe ever type of cut, before you use the Primo. I would (maybe) understand if you had an insane amount of muscle mass under that fat that you wanted to “save” while cutting but otherwise Primo will do next to nothing.

Test, Primo and 30-40mg Ostarine/day, good diet and cardio should be all you need to add a bit of muscle and cut 10-20 lbs in 2 months. I’ve been able to add muscle while simultaneously dropping 15lbs in 8 weeks on a similar stack. If you ditch the Var and whatever else you’re planning on running, this stack should put so little stress on your body that you should be able to transition into a lean bulk stack for another 8 weeks after. Longer cycle, sustained results, more time on = more fun and a better experience. Makes more sense to me. That’s what I would do personally.

I really think too much emphasis is being placed on drugs and not enough emphasis is being placed on basic principles - mental discipline, nutrition, hard training, overall health.

I agree with this 100%. Primo and low test, that’s it. Maybe hydroxycut -

 

[Zvch]

Someone needs to do some work on this forum. My posts are double posting everywhere or not appearing at all, then I repost them and the original posts randomly pop up. Sorry for the pollution.

 

[Renew1]

Someone needs to do some work on this forum. My posts are double posting everywhere or not appearing at all, then I repost them and the original posts randomly pop up. Sorry for the pollution.

If they don't show up, or seem to disappear, refresh the page, and you'll be able to see them.

 

[Zvch]

If they don't show up, or seem to disappear, refresh the page, and you'll be able to see them.

I’m on my phone that’s probably what the problem is

 

[Renew1]

I’m on my phone that’s probably what the problem is

I use my phone most of the time.
.... That's the method I use.

 

[RIPDanDuchaine]

Test, Primo and 30-40mg Ostarine/day, good diet and cardio should be all you need to add a bit of muscle and cut 10-20 lbs in 2 months. I’ve been able to add muscle while simultaneously dropping 15lbs in 8 weeks on a similar stack. If you ditch the Var and whatever else you’re planning on running, this stack should put so little stress on your body that you should be able to transition into a lean bulk stack for another 8 weeks after. Longer cycle, sustained results, more time on = more fun and a better experience. Makes more sense to me. That’s what I would do personally.

Just curious, why ostarine over var? Why not both in lower dosages? Too much androgenicity? I'm not sure if I have that much Ostarine. I bought a bottle of 360 tabs of 5mg from Olympus back in the day, so that might be enough, but I don't feel like doing math atm.

I don't know if I'm going to plan to go on a bulking cycle right after this one, I think I'm going to take some time off and either go natty for awhile or cruise.

But, I appreciate the feedback.

I really think too much emphasis is being placed on drugs and not enough emphasis is being placed on basic principles - mental discipline, nutrition, hard training, overall health.

[/QUOTE]

That's absolutely true and something I considered a lot when thinking about this cycle. I see people on cycles of 15 different drugs all together and I just shake my head. My main goal with this cycle was two fold - keep my hairline and lose some fat. I'd love to use some GH for some spot reduction, but I just don't have the funds for it right now.

I agree with this 100%. Primo and low test, that’s it. Maybe hydroxycut -

Yeah, I was planning on adding some ECA and maybe some SNS Lean Edge with it, or one of those Hi-Tech fat burners with DMHA in it as those are less anxiety inducing than ephedrine, but proof as to whether or not DMHA can actually burn fat is up in the air.

Someone needs to do some work on this forum. My posts are double posting everywhere or not appearing at all, then I repost them and the original posts randomly pop up. Sorry for the pollution.

No worries. I believe you can go back and delete your duplicate posts.

Btw, I appreciate all the continued feedback from everyone.

 

[RIPDanDuchaine]

Agreed. The advice has been consistent. At this point all we can do is either leave the thread as we won’t be changing his mind or we can try to help him mitigate any potential issues.

I completely appreciate the feedback you and everyone else has given me in this thread, but I'm just kind of dead set on running this cycle. Thanks to your guys feedback, I swapped out Primobolan instead of Masteron (which cost me a ton more money, but hopefully my beautiful locks will stay put). I also picked Var as my standalone oral AAS because the safety profile is really good and supposedly it helps suppress appetite and other good fat loss related stuff.

I don't think the Ostarine and Trenvar will be too hard on my liver and kidneys (esp since I'm just going to be doing small doses preworkout), I'm, ofc, going to be running Cycle Support throughout the cycle and getting blood tests from my doctor next month and I might buy another one just to see how I'm doing health wise.

Didn’t you say you weighed 220?

I did, but I honestly think about 20lbs of that is bloat from my test/deca cycle/cruise. Because I weighed around 195-200 before I started and I really haven't been eating that many extra calories.

what kind of total T you getting off that Cruise? I was at 200mg and my damn test was like 1700 total t and the damn physicians assistants ( all females) went weeping to their desks to hide under them. 150mg seems to keep me in the 790-850 range. I have thought of adding deca to a cruise and have a 300mg ml deca/npp blend but i know if i do 150 a week that is 1/2 cc and doing 1/4 or 1/3 cc is so damn hard to read.

I actually haven't checked my test levels in awhile. So, I'm not sure.

Maybe I am missing what’s going on here.

You will be running 250 test e, and dropping your 300 in nandrolones for 400 primo and a bit of Var & Ostarine, essentially, yes?

Nothing dramatic here; essentially just a slightly more aggressive modification to his hot cruise protocol skewed more towards a slow cut.

Should be easy to control aromatization, drier cycle, a little more androgen. Seems safe enough - it’s just going to be a very mild boost, and very dependent on diet/cardio for results, like any good fatloss phase will. Just don’t expect the drugs to really do the work here.

Small dose changes, small rewards. Which may be fine in the context of someone who has a ways to diet to get where they want to go. Baby cycle (compared to his HRT) for 4 months, back down to a smaller HRT of 300mg total for 8 weeks or so, then a more aggressive blast later kind of thing.

Anybody feel free to weigh in on that and discuss why it does or doesn’t seem worth it.

I'm planning on dropping the nandrolone, or finishing it before I start the cycle. I also have Aromasin on hand if I need some extra need for controlling my estrogen, but I don't think it should be a problem.

But yeah, I know AAS aren't going to magically burn the fat off me. It's going to be the effort and work I put in that's going to do that.

missing the trenavar........

i don’t think we can say that the plan as laid out isn’t going to place additional stressors on the body over and above what is already a cruise dose well above trt.

so in my mind, he’d need to run this blast, then chill at a proper cruise/trt dose for 3 months, then cut again on a blast dose to be getting anywhere near a good body comp. so approx 8-9 months and two blasts

compared to a 3 month trt/cruise dose cut to sub 20% cut now then add the blast doses and 3 months down to sub 15% - 6 months and one blast

obviously I come at it from a health standpoint and would suggest the second option is far better in that regard?

the other concern I would have is that something is wrong on a nutrition and/or training standpoint if one can’t cut from 30 to 20% bf on a trt dose test..... and if those two things aren’t right then throwing more drugs at it isn’t the ideal solution imo

but of course, long term health may not be a concern (I agree it’s not crazy doses at all being looked at but surely just the three orals will hammer the lipids)

just my thought anyway

I think that's probably a realistic idea.

 

[Zvch]

Just curious, why ostarine over var? Why not both in lower dosages? Too much androgenicity? I'm not sure if I have that much Ostarine. I bought a bottle of 360 tabs of 5mg from Olympus back in the day, so that might be enough, but I don't feel like doing math atm.

I don't know if I'm going to plan to go on a bulking cycle right after this one, I think I'm going to take some time off and either go natty for awhile or cruise.

But, I appreciate the feedback.

The recommendation for Ostarine over Var was assuming that one would want to run a longer milder cycle (16 weeks or so) and restructure it to achieve slightly different goals halfway through. Something I’ve always had good experience doing. I was just responding with an alternative middle ground option to the comments overall which seemed to be on advocating for one or the other of the extremes - bulking or cutting. I think you get more out of a 4 month mild cycle than you do a 2 month heavy cycle.

If your goal was to cut and preserve muscle, I don’t think you’d need both Ostarine and Var in addition to Test and Primo in order to achieve that and I think you’d just be putting extra stress on your body when you didn’t need to in the first place. I’ve also had the experience of not being able to move the scale with too many drugs in the mix - not necessarily a good situation if you want to drop weight. Ostarine I would think would be more tame on the body for most people than even Var, but I could be wrong about that. Everyone is different. You could obviously do Var instead but I don’t think there’s a need for both.

I also personally favor having a base of one or two injectables and then only one oral to begin with, so I tend to think in the confines of that structure when I lay things out. My bad on that. The thinking behind that is that if you have ONLY Test, Primo, Ostarine and Var to choose from, you’d be in a better position picking 3 out of the 4 and switching #3 (the oral) a month in when you develop a tolerance to it, instead of running all 4 from the jump. If you give your body all 4, it’s already used to all 4 in a month and now you have no choice but to take more drugs when you could have gotten the same results from less in month 2.

 

[RIPDanDuchaine]

The recommendation for Ostarine over Var was assuming that one would want to run a longer milder cycle (16 weeks or so) and restructure it to achieve slightly different goals halfway through. Something I’ve always had good experience doing. I was just responding with an alternative middle ground option to the comments overall which seemed to be on advocating for one or the other of the extremes - bulking or cutting. I think you get more out of a 4 month mild cycle than you do a 2 month heavy cycle.

I can understand that. The issue is more to do with the outrageous price of Primobolan rather than wanting to do a longer cycle, per se. I know it's a very safe and reliable drug, but, even at 400mg/week it's $110 for a 10ml 100mg/ml bottle. I trust my guy though, so I know I'm getting what I'm getting.

If your goal was to cut and preserve muscle, I don’t think you’d need both Ostarine and Var in addition to Test and Primo in order to achieve that and I think you’d just be putting extra stress on your body when you didn’t need to in the first place. I’ve also had the experience of not being able to move the scale with too many drugs in the mix - not necessarily a good situation if you want to drop weight. Ostarine I would think would be more tame on the body for most people than even Var, but I could be wrong about that. Everyone is different. You could obviously do Var instead but I don’t think there’s a need for both.

I appreciate the input on this, I'd like to hear what others in the peanut gallery have to say about replacing var with Ostarine.

I also personally favor having a base of one or two injectables and then only one oral to begin with, so I tend to think in the confines of that structure when I lay things out. My bad on that. The thinking behind that is that if you have ONLY Test, Primo, Ostarine and Var to choose from, you’d be in a better position picking 3 out of the 4 and switching #3 (the oral) a month in when you develop a tolerance to it, instead of running all 4 from the jump. If you give your body all 4, it’s already used to all 4 in a month and now you have no choice but to take more drugs when you could have gotten the same results from less in month 2.

Develop a tolerance to it? I wasn't aware you developed a tolerance to AAS unless you're just a pro-bber and are on them 24/7/365.

Also, keep in mind I was also planning on using Ostarine, LGD, and Trenvar all in low doses just as a preworkout boost. I dropped the LGD after reading it's more for mass building than fat loss, but I'm still planning on adding the Trenavar. The reason for this was too fold:

Just to get a little boost from it and also to get rid of it. In my first post, I mentioned all of these PHs/DSs/SARMs I have stockpiled and I was looking to add them to my cycle to just kind of get rid of them. But I'll definitely keep your suggestion about replacing Ostarine with var in mind. Do you have any reading on the topic perchance?

Here's a list of all the other anabolics I have:

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[Zvch]

I can understand that. The issue is more to do with the outrageous price of Primobolan rather than wanting to do a longer cycle, per se. I know it's a very safe and reliable drug, but, even at 400mg/week it's $110 for a 10ml 100mg/ml bottle. I trust my guy though, so I know I'm getting what I'm getting.



I appreciate the input on this, I'd like to hear what others in the peanut gallery have to say about replacing var with Ostarine.



Develop a tolerance to it? I wasn't aware you developed a tolerance to AAS unless you're just a pro-bber and are on them 24/7/365.

Also, keep in mind I was also planning on using Ostarine, LGD, and Trenvar all in low doses just as a preworkout boost. I dropped the LGD after reading it's more for mass building than fat loss, but I'm still planning on adding the Trenavar. The reason for this was too fold:

Just to get a little boost from it and also to get rid of it. In my first post, I mentioned all of these PHs/DSs/SARMs I have stockpiled and I was looking to add them to my cycle to just kind of get rid of them. But I'll definitely keep your suggestion about replacing Ostarine with var in mind. Do you have any reading on the topic perchance?

Here's a list of all the other anabolics I have:

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If you didn’t develop a tolerance to AAS, what would be the point then of upping doses or adding in more drugs throughout a cycle?

Let’s say you run a good cycle and take the same doses of everything for two months and you put on 5lbs of muslce the first month. You can be damn sure that at the same doses, you’re not going to put on more than half of that the second month. That’s tolerance.

 

[RIPDanDuchaine]

If you didn’t develop a tolerance to AAS, what would be the point then of upping doses or adding in more drugs throughout a cycle?

Let’s say you run a good cycle and take the same doses of everything for two months and you put on 5lbs of muslce the first month. You can be damn sure that at the same doses, you’re not going to put on more than half of that the second month. That’s tolerance.

I've never done that. But I've never run anything past a 10-12 week cycle. Steroids and hormones in general are extremely slow acting drugs. They can take weeks to months to build up in the body to a sufficient level where you're seeing results from them.

But, I've always done stuff like dbol for 6 weeks and sust/eq for the rest of the 10-12 weeks and have had gains just fine.

I'm not sure if you're talking about really advanced cycling protocols or anything like that, but I always try and KISS (keep it simple, stupid) with AAS.

 

[Zvch]

I've never done that. But I've never run anything past a 10-12 week cycle. Steroids and hormones in general are extremely slow acting drugs. They can take weeks to months to build up in the body to a sufficient level where you're seeing results from them.

But, I've always done stuff like dbol for 6 weeks and sust/eq for the rest of the 10-12 weeks and have had gains just fine.

I'm not sure if you're talking about really advanced cycling protocols or anything like that, but I always try and KISS (keep it simple, stupid) with AAS.

Yeah it’s definitely a little different for longer esters. I was talking moreso about orals still. Your blood levels with orals are gonna be pretty high at the end of the first week. I’ve had the experience more than once of having to up the dose of SARMs or orals by 50% or more in the second month to get the same results as the first.

 

[RIPDanDuchaine]

Yeah it’s definitely a little different for longer esters. I was talking moreso about orals still. Your blood levels with orals are gonna be pretty high at the end of the first week. I’ve had the experience more than once of having to up the dose of SARMs or orals by 50% or more in the second month to get the same results as the first.

That's kind of unusual, but it could just be your liver. Your liver becomes more efficient in breaking down certain drugs after you take them for longer periods (which is why addicts have to keep increasing their dosages). So, that may be why it's specific to orals.

 

[KvanH]

Roid rage

Now you're making sense

 

[Zvch]

That's kind of unusual, but it could just be your liver. Your liver becomes more efficient in breaking down certain drugs after you take them for longer periods (which is why addicts have to keep increasing their dosages). So, that may be why it's specific to orals.

It’s really not that unusual. I think it’s common sense that the same dose is not going to get you the same results forever. It’s not specific to orals. Orals just build in your blood stream quicker than the drugs you mentioned, which results in a quicker response from the body. The same will happen with any compound.

The liver of an alcoholic or addict metabolizes drugs quicker to begin with, not just over time. That’s why they have a higher tolerance naturally and naturally need more of a drug to achieve the the same result as someone not genetically predisposed. There’s a genetic difference at birth, not just something that develops over time. A person born with the illness of addiction/alcoholism vs. someone who takes a drug for too long and becomes *addicted* are actually two entirely different things.

 

[Whisky]

It’s really not that unusual. I think it’s common sense that the same dose is not going to get you the same results forever. It’s not specific to orals. Orals just build in your blood stream quicker than the drugs you mentioned, which results in a quicker response from the body. The same will happen with any compound.

The liver of an alcoholic or addict metabolizes drugs quicker to begin with, not just over time. That’s why they have a higher tolerance naturally and naturally need more of a drug to achieve the the same result as someone not genetically predisposed. There’s a genetic difference at birth, not just something that develops over time. A person born with the illness of addiction/alcoholism vs. someone who takes a drug for too long and becomes *addicted* are actually two entirely different things.

from first hand experience this is true. I always had (from 13) a tolerance to alcoholic and recreational drugs. I used to drink with a guy we called two pint Tony, he was older than me by 10 years and absolutely an alcoholic (drunk every day) but his tolerance was terrible, two pints and he looked and sounded pissed. Before I was 18 I could drink a bottle of scotch in 2-3 hours and be ok, just having a good time.

with orals I have found that I simply do seem to need larger doses to elicit a response. It’s a burden tbh. It costs more and no doubt damages the body more.

 

[KvanH]

Not very important for the sake of this thread, but I'd say the addicts needing more drugs is more to do with receptor down regulation and depletion of neurotransmitters. And the genetic propensity for addictions is more to do with brain chemistry than liver function.

 

[Whisky]

Not very important for the sake of this thread, but I'd say the addicts needing more drugs is more to do with receptor down regulation and depletion of neurotransmitters. And the genetic propensity for addictions is more to do with brain chemistry than liver function.

i recall them doing a study in Australian around genetics and the effect of alcoholism on the liver (it’s actually only 10-20 of alcoholics get cirrhosis) - they are pretty sure that’s down to genetics

Another article on it

Invalid Link Removed

 

[KvanH]

i recall them doing a study in Australian around genetics and the effect of alcoholism on the liver (it’s actually only 10-20 of alcoholics get cirrhosis) - they are pretty sure that’s down to genetics

Another article on it

Invalid Link Removed

But I'm not saying there's no genetic difference in how well peoples liver withstand alcohol or other abuse. Just that wether person is suspectable for addiction or not is mostly about brain chemistry. Reward system and neurostransmitter operation and such. People can get addicted to gambling and videogames and what not. Of course life experience matters a lot too like childhood and trauma.

And for the needing bigger dose of drugs and the receptor down regulation you can see it very evidently with some drugs that create fast down regulation. Take a molly today and take a same kind of molly tomorrow and see the difference. Not even mentioning psychological tolerance that builds up and a person just gets used to the effects.

 

[Whisky]

But I'm not saying there's no genetic difference in how well peoples liver withstand alcohol or other abuse. Just that wether person is suspectable for addiction or not is mostly about brain chemistry. Reward system and neurostransmitter operation and such. People can get addicted to gambling and videogames and what not. Of course life experience matters a lot too like childhood and trauma.

And for the needing bigger dose of drugs and the receptor down regulation you can see it very evidently with some drugs that create fast down regulation. Take a molly today and take a same kind of molly tomorrow and see the difference. Not even mentioning psychological tolerance that builds and a person just gets used to the effects.

addiction itself I don’t know tbh. I’ve always had an addictive personality (even from a young age), it’s to anything that plays on the reward system for sure (sports, gambling, sex, masturbation, drugs, booze, making sales, being recognised as the best at work etc). What I’ve never understood is why for me that’s a more powerful agent that for non addicts - is that part of a genetic make up?

I don’t know? I can’t put mine down to any childhood trauma tbh, decent upbringing, good school, middle class family. Yeah I went through some stuff in my teens like most people do in their lives, some of it pretty bad tbf but I was already an addict and I know none of it fuelled my addiction.

I never drank or took drugs to ‘escape reality’ like some say. I always had a mindset I didn’t want to waste any time on a reality that wasn’t as good as it could be I guess.

anyway bro, I’ve no idea what thread we are in but I’m fucking sure this wasn’t in the OP’s post

 

[KvanH]

addiction itself I don’t know tbh. I’ve always had an addictive personality (even from a young age), it’s to anything that plays on the reward system for sure (sports, gambling, sex, masturbation, drugs, booze, making sales, being recognised as the best at work etc). What I’ve never understood is why for me that’s a more powerful agent that for non addicts - is that part of a genetic make up?

I don’t know? I can’t put mine down to any childhood trauma tbh, decent upbringing, good school, middle class family. Yeah I went through some stuff in my teens like most people do in their lives, some of it pretty bad tbf but I was already an addict and I know none of it fuelled my addiction.

I never drank or took drugs to ‘escape reality’ like some say. I always had a mindset I didn’t want to waste any time on a reality that wasn’t as good as it could be I guess.

anyway bro, I’ve no idea what thread we are in but I’m fucking sure this wasn’t in the OP’s post

Side tracking has been the theme lately

I just kind of grabbed on what @Zvch and OP talked about the need to up the anabolics as you proceed on your cycle and the liver function of addicts.

But I will still say this; I was just naming the most common reasons for addictions and sure there's no trauma or bad childhood behind everyones addiction, they just can be triggers for some. But I'd say it is mostly about brain chemistry and thus about genetics as you presumed.

But yeah, I've said my peace and this is completely OT. I just felt like I had some sort of 'expertise'/strong opinion on a matter that was touched on ✌

 

[Zvch]

But I'm not saying there's no genetic difference in how well peoples liver withstand alcohol or other abuse. Just that wether person is suspectable for addiction or not is mostly about brain chemistry. Reward system and neurostransmitter operation and such. People can get addicted to gambling and videogames and what not. Of course life experience matters a lot too like childhood and trauma.

And for the needing bigger dose of drugs and the receptor down regulation you can see it very evidently with some drugs that create fast down regulation. Take a molly today and take a same kind of molly tomorrow and see the difference. Not even mentioning psychological tolerance that builds and a person just gets used to the effects.

You’re right but I think it’s both. I’ve read studies on it in the past, I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure the abnormalities in both brain chemistry and liver metabolism are present in people predisposed to addiction/alcoholism. I’d agree that the abnormality in brain chemistry is a bigger factor.

 

[RIPDanDuchaine]

We kinda got off track here, but anymore input on the ostarine vs. var debate?

 

[Renew1]

We kinda got off track here, but anymore input on the ostarine vs. var debate?

Var.

 

[KvanH]

Var.

+1

 

[trumac]

Var.

+102937389 ....if it’s real. Unfortunately between var and primo we have the most often faked products out there.

 

[Hyde]

+102937389 ....if it’s real. Unfortunately between var and primo we have the most often faked products out there.

Yeah, I have had Var that was actually Dbol or Anadrol when we roidtested it.

 

[shanewilliams]

I can understand that. The issue is more to do with the outrageous price of Primobolan rather than wanting to do a longer cycle, per se. I know it's a very safe and reliable drug, but, even at 400mg/week it's $110 for a 10ml 100mg/ml bottle. I trust my guy though, so I know I'm getting what I'm getting.



I appreciate the input on this, I'd like to hear what others in the peanut gallery have to say about replacing var with Ostarine.



Develop a tolerance to it? I wasn't aware you developed a tolerance to AAS unless you're just a pro-bber and are on them 24/7/365.

Also, keep in mind I was also planning on using Ostarine, LGD, and Trenvar all in low doses just as a preworkout boost. I dropped the LGD after reading it's more for mass building than fat loss, but I'm still planning on adding the Trenavar. The reason for this was too fold:

Just to get a little boost from it and also to get rid of it. In my first post, I mentioned all of these PHs/DSs/SARMs I have stockpiled and I was looking to add them to my cycle to just kind of get rid of them. But I'll definitely keep your suggestion about replacing Ostarine with var in mind. Do you have any reading on the topic perchance?

Here's a list of all the other anabolics I have:

Invalid Link Removed

Bro - that’s Avery high price for primo IMHO. You can get it for nearly half that. You start taking 5 or 6 different things at the same time and you end up not knowing what’s doing what and what is legit etc. This is why I say keep it simple. I’ve used gear 30 years and I’m currently on 100mg test prop per week, 75mg tren hex 3x per week, for 2 weeks and now I just added 200mg primo ace per day orally. That’s it. I’m even contemplating dropping the hex but I have just under 20ml left so idk. I want to really see how my body react to the primo though. If you start throwing in 2-3 fat burners and other pro hormones I just think it’s overkill