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Has Anyone Mega Dosed Natural Anabolics?

210LBS

Well-known member
Just started cutting and worried about all the strength I know I'm going to lose. To say I'm skeptical about things like (-) epi and laxo is an understatement. However, I'm wondering if anyone has "mega dosed" any of this stuff and noticed a difference between recommended doses and mega doses? Just curious.
 
210LBS said:
Just started cutting and worried about all the strength I know I'm going to lose. To say I'm skeptical about things like (-) epi and laxo is an understatement. However, I'm wondering if anyone has "mega dosed" any of this stuff and noticed a difference between recommended doses and mega doses? Just curious.
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Depends on the compound, but generally speaking - mega dosing non hormonal anabolics yields little. It does empty your wallet faster. I can't think of one that's worth mega-dosing. Healthy, research proven doses of staples like creatine/beta-alanine etc should be a given. Once you wander into the exotic, things start going south..
 
210LBS said:
Just started cutting and worried about all the strength I know I'm going to lose. To say I'm skeptical about things like (-) epi and laxo is an understatement. However, I'm wondering if anyone has "mega dosed" any of this stuff and noticed a difference between recommended doses and mega doses? Just curious.
Click to expand...

I would stick with recommended dosages. Just because an ingredient is proven to work, more does not equal better.

Also, what type of cut are you doing? If you're monitoring calories and slowly dieting, you shouldn't fear losing a ton of strength. If you're cutting slowly and keeping track of your training and nutrition, you shouldn't be losing a significant amount of strength. Most natural anabolic products will be best used while eating in a surplus, but there are a few products that can be effective during a cut. Have you looked into using any other products besides the ones you've mentioned?
 
Sounds expensive (coming from a young, single, childless guy with minimal bills and a great job) I believe for the most part you get diminished returns. I tried for a bit using standard dosage of Ep1c Unleashed TD and had an extra bottle of the pill form of Ep1c Unleashed I added on to my last 4 weeks and didn't notice much difference so I'd stick the recommended dosage.

My body responds very well to Epicatechin though, CEL Epi-plex, Ep1c Unleashed and now BLR FD2 (about to start week 3 of FD2)
I've heard people have seen benefits of upping ARA to 1.5 - 2g and double dosing Tr1umph (PA) but I have yet to try these methods and have stuck to recommended doses
 
Op if you want good results that are worth the while you might want to look at going to the dark side
 
HMB 6g first thing when waking up helped me maintain strength in pct, also used 750 mg PA which i believed also helped
 
john.patterson said:
I would stick with recommended dosages. Just because an ingredient is proven to work, more does not equal better.

Also, what type of cut are you doing? If you're monitoring calories and slowly dieting, you shouldn't fear losing a ton of strength. If you're cutting slowly and keeping track of your training and nutrition, you shouldn't be losing a significant amount of strength. Most natural anabolic products will be best used while eating in a surplus, but there are a few products that can be effective during a cut. Have you looked into using any other products besides the ones you've mentioned?
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I don't want to lose any strength but that's how it goes. Going to be a very slow cut in hopes of maintaining most of my strength and muscle. We'll see what happens though. I have a stock pile of supplements that I plan on using but just getting a feel for different things as I'm planning a very long and slow cut.
 
210LBS said:
Yeah yeah yeah... I was thinking about going the 1-andro route... haven't pulled the trigger yet.
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I wouldn't even bother with the Andros. If your in for gains, go for the better stuff bro, yes it is harsher but I'd say it's defo worth it
 
I did it with Turkesterone and Ecdysterone. Loved it (pumped and swole all day, great recovery), but not worth the extra money.
 
solidsnake said:
I wouldn't even bother with the Andros. If your in for gains, go for the better stuff bro, yes it is harsher but I'd say it's defo worth it
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I can't do that. I'm a total vagina. I'm paranoid about the sides and long term effects of andros sk I don't think my mental state will allow me to go for the stronger stuff.
 
georgetown said:
its probably overkill but i had bulk powder that was cheap, powder taste nasty so your better off with caps anyways
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I just plan on using the 3 grams for now but maybe I'll up it later towards the end of my cut.. I'll play around with it.
 
Find a decent quality bulk LJ extract and mega dosing might be worthwhile depending how well you respond to it. I have been doing this for the past year or so and have tried 3 sources so far. Danes has lots of knowledge on this subject and there are a few threads about LJ. As others had mentioned, bulk HMB is a cheap and about $45-$50 for a years supply at 3 grams daily. Double dosing to 6 grams would be a cheap experiment. PA from SL Granules would be a nice add on. Other than that, just stick with the basics like quality nutrient dense food, fats for satiety and hormone support, fish oil, creatine, and bcaa's/whey if your budget allows. On a cut I find that cutting as little calories as possible is really the most helpful for long term sustainability and sanity.

Other natural anabolics/herbals/supps that may help provide a boost during a cut that do not need mega dosing would be:

GDAs
Arimistane
Bulbine
Icariin
Maca
KSM-66
 
210LBS said:
I didn't even know ecdy was still around. Interesting though.
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Many new products use a Rhaponticum Carthamoides standardized to ecdysterones and Tonvaras Turkesterone sticks around.

I tried almost every natty ingredient and ecdysterone is definitely a keeper for me.
 
mbonheur said:
Many new products use a Rhaponticum Carthamoides standardized to ecdysterones and Tonvaras Turkesterone sticks around.

I tried almost every natty ingredient and ecdysterone is definitely a keeper for me.
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Interesting. What's your favorite product of them?
 
hsk said:
Find a decent quality bulk LJ extract and mega dosing might be worthwhile depending how well you respond to it. I have been doing this for the past year or so and have tried 3 sources so far. Danes has lots of knowledge on this subject and there are a few threads about LJ. As others had mentioned, bulk HMB is a cheap and about $45-$50 for a years supply at 3 grams daily. Double dosing to 6 grams would be a cheap experiment. PA from SL Granules would be a nice add on. Other than that, just stick with the basics like quality nutrient dense food, fats for satiety and hormone support, fish oil, creatine, and bcaa's/whey if your budget allows. On a cut I find that cutting as little calories as possible is really the most helpful for long term sustainability and sanity.

Other natural anabolics/herbals/supps that may help provide a boost during a cut that do not need mega dosing would be:

GDAs
Arimistane
Bulbine
Icariin
Maca
KSM-66
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Some good advice here. HMB and PA can both be found for cheap, even at higher doses (lots of people like 1.5g PA instead of just 750mg). Tongkat ali and ashwagandha can also be useful during a cut as adaptogens. I use KSM-66 as pretty much a staple, but sometimes get my ashwagandha from AlphaMax XT, which also contains TA. Creatine is a staple that's useful any time, and betaine is a nice addition as well, and may help with body composition. Lots of good products contain creatine and betaine, like PowerMax XT, Ergonine, Triumph, Finish Line, etc.
mbonheur said:
Many new products use a Rhaponticum Carthamoides standardized to ecdysterones and Tonvaras Turkesterone sticks around.

I tried almost every natty ingredient and ecdysterone is definitely a keeper for me.
Click to expand...
I'm excited for MassMax XT, with Rhaponticum Carthamoides, epicatechin, and more with increased absorption.
 
210LBS said:
Just started cutting and worried about all the strength I know I'm going to lose. To say I'm skeptical about things like (-) epi and laxo is an understatement. However, I'm wondering if anyone has "mega dosed" any of this stuff and noticed a difference between recommended doses and mega doses? Just curious.
Click to expand...
Ask Danes he uses HUGE doses of everything
 
mbonheur said:
Many new products use a Rhaponticum Carthamoides standardized to ecdysterones and Tonvaras Turkesterone sticks around.

I tried almost every natty ingredient and ecdysterone is definitely a keeper for me.
Click to expand...

Why did you say its not worth the extra money then?
 
210LBS said:
I don't want to lose any strength but that's how it goes. Going to be a very slow cut in hopes of maintaining most of my strength and muscle. We'll see what happens though. I have a stock pile of supplements that I plan on using but just getting a feel for different things as I'm planning a very long and slow cut.
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At least you're being smart about it, slower is always better. If you're looking at other products, I would also recommend checking out Alphamax XT. Very solid profile for cutting, and I felt that I was able to keep more strength while dieting when running it. As muscleupcrohn mentioned, it also contains KSM-66, which can be beneficial during a cut to help with stress levels. Depending on how long your cut is, and the other supplements you have in mind, I think Alphamax XT would definitely be worth your time for a 4 or 8 week run during your cut.
 
john.patterson said:
At least you're being smart about it, slower is always better. If you're looking at other products, I would also recommend checking out Alphamax XT. Very solid profile for cutting, and I felt that I was able to keep more strength while dieting when running it. As muscleupcrohn mentioned, it also contains KSM-66, which can be beneficial during a cut to help with stress levels. Depending on how long your cut is, and the other supplements you have in mind, I think Alphamax XT would definitely be worth your time for a 4 or 8 week run during your cut.
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That's a possibility. I'm on my second bottle of M-Test right now which also has KSM-66 and I've been enjoying it.
 
210LBS said:
That's a possibility. I'm on my second bottle of M-Test right now which also has KSM-66 and I've been enjoying it.
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Glad to hear you have been enjoying it. I find that cortisol control is most crucial at the end of a cut when your body really starts to fight you.

Are you planning on running the m test for 4 or 8 weeks?
 
210LBS said:
Interesting. What's your favorite product of them?
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I used to take tonvara, but I found RCE standardized to 80 % for much cheaper. Effects are more or less the same. It is an adaptogen and well suited for my upper lower routine. Recovery is great, strength decent and the bulkier look is an extra. I run it year round (with breaks) , as I am feeling worse without it.

I had personally less success with epicatechin (FD1, FD2) and Laxogenin (Focused Nutrition). Maybe an other brand works better or I am just not receptive. Alphamax XT has pretty good reviews as well, and I did not get much out of it. Diesel Hardcore gets trashed here and it works pretty well for me, so who knows.

I am talking about muscle recovery, strength, libido, etc., testosterone increases are marginal, I actually tested it.

I finished my run of Virtus recently, I liked the look on it, but I sure did not get more aggressive or stronger on it as other logs reported.
Now I am on day 3 of M-Test, might throw in Epiplex in a few weeks, we'll see.
 
Let's get this out of the way first: I gained strength (after 2 years, so doubtful it was any newb stuff hanging around) on Ostarine, while at -750 to 1000kcals (not Keto though). But you are leery of even the "Gray" side (requires same FULL PCT with SERM/s), cool beans.

What you have, is a lot easier to maintain/retain, than trying to add/build - so I wouldn't be too worried. And the less your deficit (slow cut), the less I'd worry even then. Worst case - whatever you lose will come right back (hopefully not the fat though!) due to muscle/CNS memory. Deloads don't cause strength loss. 14 Days of doing nothing doesn't either. Don't worry, and don't waste money. The only caveat would be if you are going to go Keto - performance will probably drop a bit - but it will come back.

As far as mega dosing Ecdy's etc...

This is as unbias as you are probably going to find. The main copy is probably very exciting, but read the bottom line:

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Bottom line: In spite of the fact that the study provides quite convincing evidence in favor of the unexpected potency of Ecdysterone, there is a problem with dosing. While the scientists say they used 5mg/kg body weight in order "mimic the situation in athletes", the correct rodent equivalent of the aforementioned dosages of up to 1g per day would be roughly 50-75mg/kg per day and thus far more than the meager 5mg/kg the researchers used.

In other words, if they didn't accidentally give us the human equivalen dose instead of the actual rodent dose, those 1g/day some bodybuilders may be taking should be way more than you'd need to see significant increases in muscle gains and that is a problem.

Why? Well, not because I'd believe that dosages as high may have toxic side effects, but rather in view of the fact that you can hardly imagine that a drug as effective as that wouldn't be all over the place in the discussions on pertinent bulletin boards. A 2006 study by Wilborn et al. even fuels the doubts, because it found no performance or hypertrophy effects in the 15 out of 45 subject of their 8-week training study who consumed 30 mg of 20-hydroxyecdysone per day from an allegedly standardized (but not tested) extract from Suma root. An even older study by Simakin et al. (1988), however, appears to confirm the existence of potent anabolic effects of ecdysterone in humans with significant increases in lean (6-7%) and reductions in fat mass (10%) in a 3-week study on 78 highly-trained male and female subjects. In view of the conflicting evidence, I am still very skeptical whether (a) the results translate to human beings, whether (b) the growth promoting effect is maybe restricted to slow twitch fibers and thus of little use to bodybuilders and whether (c) the supplements that are already being sold actually contain ecdysterones
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I took 2 bottles of what most would say is guaranteed legit RCE - minor recovery improvements for training already being done, new movements still hurt like hell (DOMS). No "holy sh^t where did that strength come from, and I look HUGE!" to report. Save your money is my advice.
 
Danes said:
Haha :D

Happy new year guys!

Honestly, Epicatechin was better in higher doses..much better endurance/work capacity, but I felt nothing from laxo even at 400-500mg
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500mgs laxo? Wow. What do you consider a higher dose of epicatechin? 1, 1.5 grams?
 
warbird01 said:
Glad to hear you have been enjoying it. I find that cortisol control is most crucial at the end of a cut when your body really starts to fight you.

Are you planning on running the m test for 4 or 8 weeks?
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I'm running it for 8 weeks. On week 5 right now. I have plenty of estrogen and cortisol control products for the end of my cut.
 
The_Old_Guy said:
Let's get this out of the way first: I gained strength (after 2 years, so doubtful it was any newb stuff hanging around) on Ostarine, while at -750 to 1000kcals (not Keto though). But you are leery of even the "Gray" side (requires same FULL PCT with SERM/s), cool beans.

What you have, is a lot easier to maintain/retain, than trying to add/build - so I wouldn't be too worried. And the less your deficit (slow cut), the less I'd worry even then. Worst case - whatever you lose will come right back (hopefully not the fat though!) due to muscle/CNS memory. Deloads don't cause strength loss. 14 Days of doing nothing doesn't either. Don't worry, and don't waste money. The only caveat would be if you are going to go Keto - performance will probably drop a bit - but it will come back.

As far as mega dosing Ecdy's etc...

This is as unbias as you are probably going to find. The main copy is probably very exciting, but read the bottom line:

Invalid Link Removed



I took 2 bottles of what most would say is guaranteed legit RCE - minor recovery improvements for training already being done, new movements still hurt like hell (DOMS). No "holy sh^t where did that strength come from, and I look HUGE!" to report. Save your money is my advice.
Click to expand...

I was hoping you would chime in. The strength and muscle loss is predictable at this point. I gained minimal strength and muscle when bulking and I'll lose similar strength and muscle when I cut. Honestly, I'd like to keep ALL of my strength and then boost my strength up again when I bulk again (that's how my body used to do it). That's just not the case any more. The idea of eating 30 oz of grilled chicken everyday just to maintain now is starting the lose its appeal. I've messed around with diets, workout programs, etc. and some have helped with endurance, fat loss, etc. but nothing has been able to push my strength or weight up.
 
rtmilburn said:
I wonder if laxo would be synergistic with ecdys? As apparently they are supposed to work in a similar pathways. So it might not work on its own but maybe potentiate ecdys?? What do you think? Danes
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Honestly, laxo is waste of time and money.
Just take a look at writeups of laxo (misleading info). 200% incease of MPS and no one could find me even an animal study. Why? Because there is no proof/study.
Tried up to 500mg and I could not report any positive or negative effects at all.

If someone is interested of single ingrediens for size and strength, higher dose of PA or ArA would be the best choice .
There are many people who said they felt nothing from ArA. They used 1-1,5g on workout days..after trying 2-2,5g ED (recommended to them), they reported body composition, strength increase, size increase and musclefullness/ sick pumps.
 
2,5g ArA each day is pretty pricey though.

I did two bottles of X-Gels at 1g on workout days and eventually upped it to 1,5 after two weeks till the bottles were empty. Used PA, Carnitine, Glycerol Monostearate and worked out four times a week. To be honest, I was not that impressed. Especially for the price tag (at least in Europe, where it is novel food, etc.)
 
Danes said:
Honestly, laxo is waste of time and money.
Just take a look at writeups of laxo (misleading info). 200% incease of MPS and no one could find me even an animal study. Why? Because there is no proof/study.
Tried up to 500mg and I could not report any positive or negative effects at all.

If someone is interested of single ingrediens for size and strength, higher dose of PA or ArA would be the best choice .
There are many people who said they felt nothing from ArA. They used 1-1,5g on workout days..after trying 2-2,5g ED (recommended to them), they reported body composition, strength increase, size increase and musclefullness/ sick pumps.
Click to expand...
Ya ara has proof it works from years of anecdotal and a couple(may be only 1) studies. I know you love ecdys from the right source and extract but they are expensive, for a decent dose. I love -(-)epi but not for muscle building (it does wonders for my acne).
 
rtmilburn said:
Ya ara has proof it works from years of anecdotal and a couple(may be only 1) studies. I know you love ecdys from the right source and extract but they are expensive, for a decent dose. I love -(-)epi but not for muscle building (it does wonders for my acne).
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Epi decreased my blood pressure, increased endurance/pump and work capacity. And I mean it should be a stample for everyone. Amazing antioxidant with plenty health properties !
But I still mean (like from the beginning), it is not a anabolic compound for strength/size. Far from it. :)
 
Danes said:
Epi decreased my blood pressure, increased endurance/pump and work capacity. And I mean it should be a stample for everyone. Amazing antioxidant with plenty health properties !
But I still mean (like from the beginning), it is not a anabolic compound for strength/size. Far from it. :)
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Interesting. If epicatechin lowers blood pressure then why isn't it being marketed as an on cycle support supplement? Seems the most proper way of utilizing it.
 
210LBS said:
Interesting. If epicatechin lowers blood pressure then why isn't it being marketed as an on cycle support supplement? Seems the most proper way of utilizing it.
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Epicatechin is effective and very potent N.O booster/vasodilator. I believe price is one of reasons why epi is not included in On cycle supplements.
 
Danes said:
Epicatechin is effective and very potent N.O booster/vasodilator. I believe price is one of reasons why epi is not included in On cycle supplements.
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Depending on the brand you choose it can be very cost effective. Especially for he benefits it gives. Cel epi plex runs about $30 a month through nutraplanet
 
Those interested in MassMax XT should check out this thread

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Insider sale email going out tomorrow.
 
No true need for megadose with some products. I'm a fan of epicat, as well as ecdysterone TBH, off cycle, I use Supreme Sports Enhancements stuff ,the omnibolic gives me results pretty close to a low dose epi cycle (really low dose, like 15-20mg)
 
Danes said:
Honestly, laxo is waste of time and money.
Just take a look at writeups of laxo (misleading info). 200% incease of MPS and no one could find me even an animal study. Why? Because there is no proof/study.
Tried up to 500mg and I could not report any positive or negative effects at all.

If someone is interested of single ingrediens for size and strength, higher dose of PA or ArA would be the best choice .
There are many people who said they felt nothing from ArA. They used 1-1,5g on workout days..after trying 2-2,5g ED (recommended to them), they reported body composition, strength increase, size increase and musclefullness/ sick pumps.
Click to expand...

Damn, 2-2.5g ArA is a huge dose!
 
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