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Hairygrandpas log, fat- and older people welcome!- diet, training, cycles, healing

Good to know, Gramps. It does seem strange, however, that he's waited so long to release V2 of either program. He's been talking about it for years.
Not sure other than the fact he has been doing a lot of other business and building it in other areas like his supplements and whatnot. If you watch the video that you linked me up to he does explain a bit of that in it. To be honest though I think the bottom line is that other areas are providing income right now and the books themselves don't typically make tons of money. Out of all of us who have a copy of CBL 1.0 I would venture to say that probably only 25% of them paid for it. He makes money already off the name he built from the first book. A second release is not going to make him more of an expert on the subject matter. So the new release probably isn't as high of a priority as it was before he started making money through other avenues.

Then again he could have realized he was wrong and scrapped the idea altogether, but then that would leave massive amounts of anecdotal evidence on the table proving wrong or not that his diet works extremely well for a certain population. I do hope he does release them though. I will definitely be buying it. Even if I choose not to run CBL again, the information about hormonal response to food and other nutritional timing and what not is immensely valuable to anyone wanting to know how the body responds to food from a hormonal down to cellular level.

Isn't that why we're all here? So we can let others convince us what supplements and other goodies to use? :)
You put a smiley face, but that is precisely why this board exists in the first place. Did you take the Red Pill recently? ;)

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I take ALL the pills. It's the injections that I shy away from. :-)

It's not that bad. Only thing I hate is hitting nerves. Happened often when pinning quads. I thought it never happens when pinning delts, yesterday I was proven wrong, two times, damnit!
 
I take ALL the pills. It's the injections that I shy away from. :-)
LMAO! You know they tend to be healthier though right? I still wonder what the end results will be of some of the SARMS we take trying to avoid gear. What happens on Test is extremely well known. However some of the other things I have messed with including methylated designers make me so happy I can do injection based stuff now without the wife getting upset with me.
It's not that bad. Only thing I hate is hitting nerves. Happened often when pinning quads. I thought it never happens when pinning delts, yesterday I was proven wrong, two times, damnit!
Yeah I do my quads almost exclusively, my lats make my glutes almost impossible to get too and after a few shots into a nerve making my delts jump I decided that I preferred the quad pain and ease of administration. I do 2 different quadrants on each leg so I still have 4 rotation points.
 
It's not that bad. Only thing I hate is hitting nerves. Happened often when pinning quads. I thought it never happens when pinning delts, yesterday I was proven wrong, two times, damnit!

See, that is my exact fear. I'm a sissy and have been scared of needles my whole life. Over time, it's gotten better out of necessity. With trigger point injections in my back the past few years, I'm quite tolerant now. But I've NEVER done it to myself. My test and hcg get here tomorrow from the compounding pharmacy. I'll be giving it a go!

LMAO! You know they tend to be healthier though right? I still wonder what the end results will be of some of the SARMS we take trying to avoid gear. What happens on Test is extremely well known. However some of the other things I have messed with including methylated designers make me so happy I can do injection based stuff now without the wife getting upset with me.

Yep. It's about fear for me. I still won't be pinning anything other than my doctor prescribed goodies for now. Possibly ever. But I'm off anything else anyway for a while until I can stabilize and see how the new doc's regimen is working for me.
 
See, that is my exact fear. I'm a sissy and have been scared of needles my whole life. Over time, it's gotten better out of necessity. With trigger point injections in my back the past few years, I'm quite tolerant now. But I've NEVER done it to myself. My test and hcg get here tomorrow from the compounding pharmacy. I'll be giving it a go!



Yep. It's about fear for me. I still won't be pinning anything other than my doctor prescribed goodies for now. Possibly ever. But I'm off anything else anyway for a while until I can stabilize and see how the new doc's regimen is working for me.


Why are they giving you both Test, and HCG? Are you low test but also trying to have children? Otherwise I can't see why you would be taking HCG and test together for a TRT type scenario.

Nothing wrong with being afraid of a needle brother. I don't have that fear so it isn't a problem for me but I have other hang ups that would make other grown man laugh. I think we all do. Also if you have truly been low test for a while just getting up to normal at first will be like a small cycle for you. People who have had chronically low test for more than a year tend to add a decent amount of muscle the first 3-4 months on TRT so definitely ride that out before bumping things up. Now once on TRT you might find yourself occasionally saving up extra and increasing the dose. I normally run mine at 150mg a week in two 75mg shots. However there is always that extra 1.25ml in the 5ml bottle so I save it up for a while then run it at 300 until the extra is gone for a little boost. Still the TRT gear but I do save the leftover to make a small boost once or twice a year now.
 
Why are they giving you both Test, and HCG? Are you low test but also trying to have children? Otherwise I can't see why you would be taking HCG and test together for a TRT type scenario.

Nothing wrong with being afraid of a needle brother. I don't have that fear so it isn't a problem for me but I have other hang ups that would make other grown man laugh. I think we all do. Also if you have truly been low test for a while just getting up to normal at first will be like a small cycle for you. People who have had chronically low test for more than a year tend to add a decent amount of muscle the first 3-4 months on TRT so definitely ride that out before bumping things up. Now once on TRT you might find yourself occasionally saving up extra and increasing the dose. I normally run mine at 150mg a week in two 75mg shots. However there is always that extra 1.25ml in the 5ml bottle so I save it up for a while then run it at 300 until the extra is gone for a little boost. Still the TRT gear but I do save the leftover to make a small boost once or twice a year now.

LOL!
Is it THIS?:

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Pinning quads has me hitting nerves more often than delts.
When on TRT, sub-q (because small amounts) could work, what do you think?
 
I did see a nice bump when starting TRT in December. You're right about that!

As for hcg... My new doc believes there are multiple benefits to keeping the testes from completely shutting down and hcg is in the mix for that reason. I haven't been on hcg and my LH is non-existent currently.

I'm definitely thinking of doing mine subq. Just so worried about hitting a nerve with IM. They have me setup for .3ml 3x/wk. Seems like a pretty generous dose compared to the old 1.5ml every 2 weeks. That's 360mg vs 300mg if I'm doing the math right.
 
I did see a nice bump when starting TRT in December. You're right about that!

As for hcg... My new doc believes there are multiple benefits to keeping the testes from completely shutting down and hcg is in the mix for that reason. I haven't been on hcg and my LH is non-existent currently.

I'm definitely thinking of doing mine subq. Just so worried about hitting a nerve with IM. They have me setup for .3ml 3x/wk. Seems like a pretty generous dose compared to the old 1.5ml every 2 weeks. That's 360mg vs 300mg if I'm doing the math right.

For my cruise (TRT) I'm really considering sub-q -but had some bad experiences with peptides this way. Somehow, not very often, it encapsulates and formed a lump that dissolves over weeks. Imagine it with test, it would mean that some injections don't make it into the blood stream -or very slowly.
 
For my cruise (TRT) I'm really considering sub-q -but had some bad experiences with peptides this way. Somehow, not very often, it encapsulates and formed a lump that dissolves over weeks. Imagine it with test, it would mean that some injections don't make it into the blood stream -or very slowly.

Crisler has a video on YouTube showing it. My doc seemed to think it was a viable option. He did say that test can tend to irritate skin, which is one reason they had avoided subq in the past. I just kept asking them "but is there a way to avoid hitting nerves doing it IM?" and they said no. Because that is my big worry. But they kept talking about IM when talking about injecting. I believe justhere4comm does subq now too. Maybe he'll chime in...
 
My son has vacations and could train with me, what a difference! I totally forgot how beneficial it is to have a training partner.
Dropping the CJC, MK and slin was the right decision. I even lost strength while on this sh1t. BP is now in normal range and I don't feel sh1tty all day. Bloat is slowly going away.

Weird how I respond to stuff.

Today's training was focused on strict form. With lower weights. It felt like a good session should feel.
 
LOL!
Is it THIS?:

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Pinning quads has me hitting nerves more often than delts.
When on TRT, sub-q (because small amounts) could work, what do you think?

What the flock!, that was so creepy I couldn't stop watching it; over; and over; and over..

For my cruise (TRT) I'm really considering sub-q -but had some bad experiences with peptides this way. Somehow, not very often, it encapsulates and formed a lump that dissolves over weeks. Imagine it with test, it would mean that some injections don't make it into the blood stream -or very slowly.

The lump. Yep. I've had that on a few occasions. Sub-q is going to be slower absorbing through the fat instead of the muscle.

Crisler has a video on YouTube showing it. My doc seemed to think it was a viable option. He did say that test can tend to irritate skin, which is one reason they had avoided subq in the past. I just kept asking them "but is there a way to avoid hitting nerves doing it IM?" and they said no. Because that is my big worry. But they kept talking about IM when talking about injecting. I believe justhere4comm does subq now too. Maybe he'll chime in...

My doctor had me at 50mg Sub-q every 3.5 days. I had to tell him about the protocol. Now I'm at 70mg and will retest soon. I don't mind IM, and may switch to it eventually, but Sub-q so far is pretty good too me. I use a 3ml Luer Lock 25g - 5/8" needle. Every 3.5 days (70mg)

I'm also taking DIM, DHEA, Pregnenolone for backfill, and a few other staples. A little acne but nothing but one or two here and there.
 
Vacation update:

I'm now in the process of buying admission tickets to Bush Gardens, campgrounds and concerts, like "Greenday" in West Palm Beach and maybe "U2" in New Orleans.
This will be a proper vacation! :)
The final highlight is meeting with a few of you in Texas! Woohoo!

Any suggestions? Things I MUST see on my trip from FL to TX? (Please no strip clubs, I'm with wife and daughter, LOL)
 
Bourbon street in New Orleans is neat. I've only been there once and it wasn't during Mardi Gras but was still interesting.
 
What the flock!, that was so creepy I couldn't stop watching it; over; and over; and over..



The lump. Yep. I've had that on a few occasions. Sub-q is going to be slower absorbing through the fat instead of the muscle.



My doctor had me at 50mg Sub-q every 3.5 days. I had to tell him about the protocol. Now I'm at 70mg and will retest soon. I don't mind IM, and may switch to it eventually, but Sub-q so far is pretty good too me. I use a 3ml Luer Lock 25g - 5/8" needle. Every 3.5 days (70mg)

I'm also taking DIM, DHEA, Pregnenolone for backfill, and a few other staples. A little acne but nothing but one or two here and there.

There is a great thread about sub-q here in AM: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/290269-trt-6.html

I also am on DIM, DHEA and Pregnenolone with my TRT, along with ADK (per my doctor). I just had blood drawn and included the DHEA test (don't have the results back yet), so we will see if my current dosage protocol is enough, too much, or just right.
 
There is a great thread about sub-q here in AM: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/290269-trt-6.html

I also am on DIM, DHEA and Pregnenolone with my TRT, along with ADK (per my doctor). I just had blood drawn and included the DHEA test (don't have the results back yet), so we will see if my current dosage protocol is enough, too much, or just right.
Adk? What's that? I'm sure once I hear what is I will fell like a retard
 
Adk? What's that? I'm sure once I hear what is I will fell like a retard

It is a multi-vitamin that contains balanced amounts of Vitamin A, D(3) and K(2). Those are all interdependent and need each other to be (most) effective. At least that is what I have read :).
 
There is a great thread about sub-q here in AM: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/290269-trt-6.html

I also am on DIM, DHEA and Pregnenolone with my TRT, along with ADK (per my doctor). I just had blood drawn and included the DHEA test (don't have the results back yet), so we will see if my current dosage protocol is enough, too much, or just right.

There is a great FB group called Testosterone Replacement Therapy Discussion (ExcelMale dot com). Blood levels they recommend for DHEA is 500 to 600 ug/dl and for Pregnenolone 180 ng/dl.

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There is a great FB group called Testosterone Replacement Therapy Discussion (ExcelMale dot com). Blood levels they recommend for DHEA is 500 to 600 ug/dl and for Pregnenolone 180 ng/dl.

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Great resource! I actually found my new doctor (Dr Calkins at Defy) on there. As I was researching all of them, I found that one was only an hour from me. So instead of doing the virtual thing, I could go in and actually meet them. Plus that way they could do the physical portion instead of me having to make yet another doc appointment to get that done too. And they weren't insane like Crisler charging $595 just to say hello to a new patient.

Interestingly, my doctor did not discuss pregnenolone with me at all, nor did he test it. That link says the test is inaccurate, so I guess that might be the case? My DHEA is in the gutter at 92.7, so he put me on straight DHEA 2x/day for now. I guess if that isn't enough, I can talk to him about exploring pregnenolone.

There is a great thread about sub-q here in AM: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/290269-trt-6.html

I also am on DIM, DHEA and Pregnenolone with my TRT, along with ADK (per my doctor). I just had blood drawn and included the DHEA test (don't have the results back yet), so we will see if my current dosage protocol is enough, too much, or just right.

This discussion is the first I've heard of DIM. Based on my quick googling... You all are using that as a natural way to keep estrogen in check? Rather than a drug AI? My doc didn't mention ADK to me either. Interesting... Do you know the warning signs that you might need that?
 
Question for hairygrandpa or any one else; I've been doing a lot of research on another cycle and am toying with doing 12 weeks of Ostarine. It seems a lot of people report leaning out quite a bit while running it. I'd do the 12 weeks, followed by 4 - 6 weeks of pct (clomid, probably), a few weeks off and then another cycle, possibly Lingadrol stack? Any thoughts on this?

Can't really do injections. Pretty sure I know what my wife would do with the syringes.
 
Question for hairygrandpa or any one else; I've been doing a lot of research on another cycle and am toying with doing 12 weeks of Ostarine. It seems a lot of people report leaning out quite a bit while running it. I'd do the 12 weeks, followed by 4 - 6 weeks of pct (clomid, probably), a few weeks off and then another cycle, possibly Lingadrol stack? Any thoughts on this?

Can't really do injections. Pretty sure I know what my wife would do with the syringes.
Then buy sh!t from the UK I know some sites if need. Think sarms are a waste of money go with the UK stuff
 
Question for hairygrandpa or any one else; I've been doing a lot of research on another cycle and am toying with doing 12 weeks of Ostarine. It seems a lot of people report leaning out quite a bit while running it. I'd do the 12 weeks, followed by 4 - 6 weeks of pct (clomid, probably), a few weeks off and then another cycle, possibly Lingadrol stack? Any thoughts on this?

Can't really do injections. Pretty sure I know what my wife would do with the syringes.

Its good for a cut. You don't look like needing it for 12 weeks, you are fairly lean already.
 
Its good for a cut. You don't look like needing it for 12 weeks, you are fairly lean already.

I have the same spare tire issue that you do. I really need to drop 10 - 15 pounds. Was thinking an Ostarine run would help me maintain muscle and burn fat. I'd like to get down to 180, and then run a bulking cycle.

I have trouble with alcohol. When I did the andros cycle this spring I didn't drink (much). Running something seems to give me the will power to stop drinking. Goofy thinking, but it seems to work.
 
I have the same spare tire issue that you do. I really need to drop 10 - 15 pounds. Was thinking an Ostarine run would help me maintain muscle and burn fat. I'd like to get down to 180, and then run a bulking cycle.

I have trouble with alcohol. When I did the andros cycle this spring I didn't drink (much). Running something seems to give me the will power to stop drinking. Goofy thinking, but it seems to work.

Hm, Ostarine was a good first cycle for me, lost a lot of fat and grew some muscles too. Paired with the right diet, I guess you could pull it off to lose 15lbs in 8-12 weeks.
Thinking about your arthritic knee...maybe its better to skip the bulk and stay at 180.
Lighter = less knee pain.
 
Still working on my diet, being somewhat disciplined.
Anavar is kicking in, felt a sudden boost of strength today while petting my cat.

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That is exactly what I imagine a German cat would look like!
 
LOL!
Is it THIS?:

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Pinning quads has me hitting nerves more often than delts.
When on TRT, sub-q (because small amounts) could work, what do you think?
Haha, I have actually held a few tarantula's so that doesn't freak me out. Here's something silly that does. It creeps me out to the nth degree to sit in a chair, or even worse on the toilet seat and feel someone else's body heat radiating into me. YUCK!!!!!! Funny considering that is coming from someone who changes adult diapers with enough corn in them to call it a casserole, but the thought of someone else body heat stored in a chair and me sitting in it gives me the heebie-jeebies!!!! Add to that when it is on the toilet and oh hell no!!!!!!

Sub-Q is definitely a viable option as well. I never liked the bumps I would sometimes get from it though. I have also used 5/8 inch needles straight into the shoulder or quads in very lean areas without any issue or gear loss.
I did see a nice bump when starting TRT in December. You're right about that!

As for hcg... My new doc believes there are multiple benefits to keeping the testes from completely shutting down and hcg is in the mix for that reason. I haven't been on hcg and my LH is non-existent currently.

I'm definitely thinking of doing mine subq. Just so worried about hitting a nerve with IM. They have me setup for .3ml 3x/wk. Seems like a pretty generous dose compared to the old 1.5ml every 2 weeks. That's 360mg vs 300mg if I'm doing the math right.
Yeah there are some good benefits, heck I would like my nuts back!!!! However last I looked at it the cost of adding HCG which my insurance scoffed at was more than I was willing to cover myself. It was really cool having testicles when I had a little left over HCG to run on TRT. For me I miss them but getting them back at that cost was a bit expensive for me to run regularly.
Question for hairygrandpa or any one else; I've been doing a lot of research on another cycle and am toying with doing 12 weeks of Ostarine. It seems a lot of people report leaning out quite a bit while running it. I'd do the 12 weeks, followed by 4 - 6 weeks of pct (clomid, probably), a few weeks off and then another cycle, possibly Lingadrol stack? Any thoughts on this?

Can't really do injections. Pretty sure I know what my wife would do with the syringes.
What brand, what doses? You won't need 6 weeks of clomid after 12 weeks of Ostarine unless you are planning on running the ostarine pretty darn high. You should be suppressed but not shut down at that point unless running higher doses. Secondly, if your HPTA is important to you then you should be OFF as long as you are on. If going on TRT sounds good to you then designing the stacks close together doesn't matter but if trying to recover afterward then head the time off between cycles. In all honestly I would much rather see you run a full on 16 week cycle of 12 weeks Osta, then into 4 weeks of LGD then come off and go for a full recovery. That little stutter step recovery that you have planned is not going to help you in any way as far as recovery and will only put more stress on your HPTA to recover when you come off the second time.

Nothing you plan to run is going to be harsh on any of your systems so a 16 week period of being on with those products is going to be better and more productive than 12 on a few weeks off then 4 on... The reason for shorter stacks with most orals is toxicity which is not really that much of a concern with these products. If planning on putting those two cycles close to each other just make them 1 long mild cycle. Just my personal opinion.

Then buy sh!t from the UK I know some sites if need. Think sarms are a waste of money go with the UK stuff
Quality SARMS are far from a waste of money. Most people do not want to run the Designer Steroids like Epistane, DMZ, superdrol and the like. They are extremely effective but also toxic as hell. Most people here are pretty happy with the results they get from running quality SARMS. Ostarine is excellent for a nice anabolic cycle. You can run it decently high and get some obvious results. S4 is well know for being a very effective cutting and hardening agent. LDG and Rad140 are both good for size and strength. You can often get more out of these than you can out of the current prohormone offerings. Sure you can get the methylated stuff and order from the UK site. However if you are going to order illegal gear online you might as well order some D-bol, Anavar, or Winny. Owning epistane or any other banned designer steroid in the USA is a Felony just like having any other steroid illegally. That being the case go with the real gear, get better results, less sides and be healthier....
Its good for a cut. You don't look like needing it for 12 weeks, you are fairly lean already.
Ostarine is pretty much good for anything. You can make some good quality gains on it when training and nutrition are set up correctly. It won't be fast but if running Ostarine for size you would run it more like you would run Equipoise long cycle with slower gains that are MUCH easier to maintain when you come off. For dieting yeah it helps maintain or even grow a little while on a cut which is nice and seems to be what most people use it for. However the other gifts of this one are available via longer cycles.
Still working on my diet, being somewhat disciplined.
Anavar is kicking in, felt a sudden boost of strength today while petting my cat.

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MMMMMMM ANAVAR!!!! If I could just run 50-75mg of Anavar every day, every other month that would be so awesome!!!!!!
 
Awesome insight, MrKleen73 !
The only things that throw me off balance and "freak me out" are bad news, especially when it comes to finances. Today I got my bank accounts frozen because my sh1tty lawyer didn't do his job. I lost a case against two former employees (what I should have won in the first place) -and trusted my lawyer that he negotiates a fraction payment. Well, he did not.

So far, the anavar is treating me good. Together with the 1-andro it gives a serious strength boost even on a low cal diet.
It's expensive, even in Bananaland. For prescription var I pay $50 for 500mg.
 
Thanks MrKleen73. The LGD was another option that i had been considering. So i could do Ostarine for 12 weeks and then right into LGD for 4. I was also toying with running Epi-Andro alongside. 8 weeks of Ostarine solo, then 4 weeks Osta/Epi, then 4 weeks LGD/Epi. Everything is Olympus Labs. Ostarine dose would probably be 10/15/20>>>>>Epi would probably be at 750 straight thru.

Sorry for the sidetrack hairygrandpa
 
Awesome insight, MrKleen73 !
The only things that throw me off balance and "freak me out" are bad news, especially when it comes to finances. Today I got my bank accounts frozen because my sh1tty lawyer didn't do his job. I lost a case against two former employees (what I should have won in the first place) -and trusted my lawyer that he negotiates a fraction payment. Well, he did not.

So far, the anavar is treating me good. Together with the 1-andro it gives a serious strength boost even on a low cal diet.
It's expensive, even in Bananaland. For prescription var I pay $50 for 500mg.

YIKES!!!! I know I have gotten it at about half that price from a trusted source a couple years ago but have no clue where to find a deal on it now.
 
Thanks MrKleen73. The LGD was another option that i had been considering. So i could do Ostarine for 12 weeks and then right into LGD for 4. I was also toying with running Epi-Andro alongside. 8 weeks of Ostarine solo, then 4 weeks Osta/Epi, then 4 weeks LGD/Epi. Everything is Olympus Labs. Ostarine dose would probably be 10/15/20>>>>>Epi would probably be at 750 straight thru.

Sorry for the sidetrack hairygrandpa

That should be a great run to lean up and build some new muscle. Finish that off with the 4-6 weeks of clomid and you have a nice solid cycle there. As far as diet with that start out like a cut, get close to how lean you want to be through a few caloric cuts or increases in activity. Once close to being as lean as you want to be stay at the same amount of calories for a bit and let yourself continue to lean out for a bit while adding a little muscle. At this point things will seem to be slowing down on the scale but your body should be responding nicely by losing a little fat and replacing with a little muscle. At that point you should be relatively lean and can then start to slowly add calories back in making gains while making sure you are not adding fat. At the end of this period you should be pretty close to your current goals.
 
Sub-Q is definitely a viable option as well. I never liked the bumps I would sometimes get from it though. I have also used 5/8 inch needles straight into the shoulder or quads in very lean areas without any issue or gear loss.

Yeah there are some good benefits, heck I would like my nuts back!!!! However last I looked at it the cost of adding HCG which my insurance scoffed at was more than I was willing to cover myself. It was really cool having testicles when I had a little left over HCG to run on TRT. For me I miss them but getting them back at that cost was a bit expensive for me to run regularly.

So, question for you experienced needle junkies. I use a 5/8" with test. At that length, is it still considered IM or subq? Or does it depend where? I feel like in my glute, it's going into fat not muscle. What length are you using HGP?

The hcg was $70 from my doc. They mark it up to cover their monitoring and office costs. I'm ok with that. I think it's normally like $50 from a pharmacy directly, right? I pay all medical out of pocket, so I'm so used to paying through the nose. I didn't even blink when they told me $70 for 11000iu, which is just over 3 months' worth. Net cost of $20/month isn't horrible to regain my junk and possibly have other positive outcomes.
 
So, question for you experienced needle junkies. I use a 5/8" with test. At that length, is it still considered IM or subq? Or does it depend where? I feel like in my glute, it's going into fat not muscle. What length are you using HGP?

The hcg was $70 from my doc. They mark it up to cover their monitoring and office costs. I'm ok with that. I think it's normally like $50 from a pharmacy directly, right? I pay all medical out of pocket, so I'm so used to paying through the nose. I didn't even blink when they told me $70 for 11000iu, which is just over 3 months' worth. Net cost of $20/month isn't horrible to regain my junk and possibly have other positive outcomes.

Yeah that really isn't too bad at all. If I wasn't already dropping 15,000 a year on insurance I could pay extra for that stuff too. Funny how broke I became once I became " a responsible insured adult..." It's no wonder so many people choose to opt out of insurance, but hell it has saved me so many times with my wife's health... so something I can't live without either.

If you are using a 5/8 inch needle to IM then it needs to be in a VERY lean area. I don't typically recommend it but I have done shots in my quads with a 5/8 inch needle. Although I must state that my legs are VERY LEAN! I am a little chubby for me right now and I still can't pinch any fat on my quads they are still vascular actually.

I tend to use 1 inch needles for everything other than subcutaneous. I buy them 100 at a time online. I went with 23g 1 inch needle this time because the 25g took to long to pull the shot.

What makes a shot IM or SubQ is simple, if you inject INTO the muscle then it is intramuscular. If you SubQ you are simply injecting just under the skin possibly into fat, but NOT into any muscle. The length of the needle is not a deciding factor. However it is believed to be easier to keep the oil in the muscle if the needle goes deeper into the muscle. I use 1 inch because there is no place on my body that I can not get it deep enough into the muscle to make it stay inside the muscle. Also I prefer to put the needle in to the hilt to minimize movement during the actual injection process.

In my opinion a relatively lean person probably doesn't ever need more than 1 inch needle for intramuscular injection. Then again some people are leakers, IE their muscle pushes some of the oil back out the whole. An easy way to avoid that is to have a tiny bit of air in the top of the syringe. When you inject the last thing to enter is the tiny air bubble which pushes through and closes the hole before oil can seep out. This is not a dangerous practice as long as you are aspirating and know you are not in a vein.
 
So, question for you experienced needle junkies. I use a 5/8" with test. At that length, is it still considered IM or subq? Or does it depend where? I feel like in my glute, it's going into fat not muscle. What length are you using HGP?

The hcg was $70 from my doc. They mark it up to cover their monitoring and office costs. I'm ok with that. I think it's normally like $50 from a pharmacy directly, right? I pay all medical out of pocket, so I'm so used to paying through the nose. I didn't even blink when they told me $70 for 11000iu, which is just over 3 months' worth. Net cost of $20/month isn't horrible to regain my junk and possibly have other positive outcomes.

You already knew that...I'm different... :)
I use a slin pin 30g with all, including test-e and pin in the delts. Have to heat the oil in a warm bath and injecting can take up to 5 min.
I back load the syringe right from the vial, if its glass that you break the nipple off -or use a bigger syringe to back load from "multi-vials".
 
Thanks MrKleen73. The LGD was another option that i had been considering. So i could do Ostarine for 12 weeks and then right into LGD for 4. I was also toying with running Epi-Andro alongside. 8 weeks of Ostarine solo, then 4 weeks Osta/Epi, then 4 weeks LGD/Epi. Everything is Olympus Labs. Ostarine dose would probably be 10/15/20>>>>>Epi would probably be at 750 straight thru.

Sorry for the sidetrack hairygrandpa

I am not sure you will get much from 4 weeks of LGD. It takes at least that long to start showing results, from what I read, although I had a little better experience myself. I also just posted post-LGD blood work in my thread that might help you out a little. It did have an impact on my liver.
 
Yeah that really isn't too bad at all. If I wasn't already dropping 15,000 a year on insurance I could pay extra for that stuff too. Funny how broke I became once I became " a responsible insured adult..." It's no wonder so many people choose to opt out of insurance, but hell it has saved me so many times with my wife's health... so something I can't live without either.

I hear ya. We have an HSA because being self employed means insanely expensive insurance. I pay around $450 to insure my healthy family of 4. But we have a $10k deductible. So basically, I pay everything cash and have insurance just in case there is some catastrophic event like heart attack or cancer.

I tend to use 1 inch needles for everything other than subcutaneous. I buy them 100 at a time online. I went with 23g 1 inch needle this time because the 25g took to long to pull the shot.

What makes a shot IM or SubQ is simple, if you inject INTO the muscle then it is intramuscular. If you SubQ you are simply injecting just under the skin possibly into fat, but NOT into any muscle. The length of the needle is not a deciding factor.

Cool. Mine are 25g and it definitely takes a short bit to draw. Mine is in grape seed oil, which I think helps. Also it's pretty warm here, so that helps too I imagine.

I just can't tell if it's going into muscle or not. So I figured the needle length was a good indicator. My doc said do subq or IM, whatever I prefer, so it doesn't necessarily matter. But I gather there are different areas to target depending on the method. Seems the delt would be fine as there's not a ton of fat up there. But I am thinking maybe these shots I've put in my glute may not be into the muscle with the 5/8 needle. I guess subq in the glute would be fine too.
 
You already knew that...I'm different... :)
I use a slin pin 30g with all, including test-e and pin in the delts. Have to heat the oil in a warm bath and injecting can take up to 5 min.
I back load the syringe right from the vial, if its glass that you break the nipple off -or use a bigger syringe to back load from "multi-vials".
Why on Earth would you want to sit there for 5 min injecting? Or is this a German thing where you intentionally cause yourself pain?
 
Great resource! I actually found my new doctor (Dr Calkins at Defy) on there. As I was researching all of them, I found that one was only an hour from me. So instead of doing the virtual thing, I could go in and actually meet them. Plus that way they could do the physical portion instead of me having to make yet another doc appointment to get that done too. And they weren't insane like Crisler charging $595 just to say hello to a new patient.

Interestingly, my doctor did not discuss pregnenolone with me at all, nor did he test it. That link says the test is inaccurate, so I guess that might be the case? My DHEA is in the gutter at 92.7, so he put me on straight DHEA 2x/day for now. I guess if that isn't enough, I can talk to him about exploring pregnenolone.



This discussion is the first I've heard of DIM. Based on my quick googling... You all are using that as a natural way to keep estrogen in check? Rather than a drug AI? My doc didn't mention ADK to me either. Interesting... Do you know the warning signs that you might need that?

Sorry for the super late reply.

The DIM was just a precautionary option that my doctor recommended as part of my TRT pellet protocol (the pellet company sells their own DIM supplement, so go figure, right?). DIM is used in several Test Booster supplements also, as well as sold separately (several to choose from on AMZ). personally I would prefer to just use a RX AI, but with pellets you can't time the AI like you can with shots. So I may be switching to an AI once I make the switch to shots.

ADK is more about optimizing the circulating testosterone, if I recall. No symptoms that I know of, just a more effective use of the test you are introducing.

Others may have a better take on both of these.
 
Cool. Mine are 25g and it definitely takes a short bit to draw. Mine is in grape seed oil, which I think helps. Also it's pretty warm here, so that helps too I imagine.

I just can't tell if it's going into muscle or not. So I figured the needle length was a good indicator. My doc said do subq or IM, whatever I prefer, so it doesn't necessarily matter. But I gather there are different areas to target depending on the method. Seems the delt would be fine as there's not a ton of fat up there. But I am thinking maybe these shots I've put in my glute may not be into the muscle with the 5/8 needle. I guess subq in the glute would be fine too.

IIRC Crissler recommends 3/8" 26G, but you have to order them online, so far I have not heard anyone reporting being able to find them locally in a pharmacy.

EDIT: Here is his video of how to do the sub-q shots (he gives himself a shot)

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