H-drol HDL Levels(extremely low)

[shem]

I've been running a 5 week cycle of Helladrol (50/50/75/100/100). Supplemented with cycle assist, fish oil, multi-vitamins, taurine. Had blood work done a few days ago and the results are in. My HDL was a 6, and no it isn't a typo, doctor has checked. Obviously, I'm stopping my cycle short and running my PCT asap (clomid -50/50/50/50, PCT assist, creatine). Is there anything else I should be worried about? As well as, is there anything I can add to help up my HDL.

- I'm 22, 6'1, 225

 

[nerdalert]

Niacin helps with your Hdl levels. Wow 6 is low, what was it to start?

 

[shem]

Niacin helps with your Hdl levels. Wow 6 is low, what was it to start?

I didn't have insurance at the time so I don't know

 

[tribaltek]

That is horribly low. As stated above, get started on a niacin regimen (Slo-Niacin is good). Don't use "non-flushing" niacin as it doesn't help with HDL.

Make sure you're doing cardio and eating clean.

Your health is more important than a few pounds of muscle.

 

[shem]

That is horribly low. As stated above, get started on a niacin regimen (Slo-Niacin is good). Don't use "non-flushing" niacin as it doesn't help with HDL.

Make sure you're doing cardio and eating clean.

Your health is more important than a few pounds of muscle.

I have been eating clean and doing cardio this entire cycle.

 

[jaydollars]

I've been running a 5 week cycle of Helladrol (50/50/75/100/100). Supplemented with cycle assist, fish oil, multi-vitamins, taurine. Had blood work done a few days ago and the results are in. My HDL was a 6, and no it isn't a typo, doctor has checked. Obviously, I'm stopping my cycle short and running my PCT asap (clomid -50/50/50/50, PCT assist, creatine). Is there anything else I should be worried about? As well as, is there anything I can add to help up my HDL.

- I'm 22, 6'1, 225

I think if more people got work done on the middle of methyl cycles, we would see something very similar...and everyone thinks H-drol is mild, well maybe mild on sides you can actually feel

Man that is crushed HDL though, single digits is pretty low

 

[BigBlackGuy]

I didn't have insurance at the time so I don't know

Dayum man, that's crazy. Grab some toco-8 it'll help out with the cholestrol levels as well.

 

[adnscmplx]

That's scary dude but try not to freak out. There is lots of research showing these kind of lipid alterations from AAS and they seem to go back to normal. It will probably take a few months but they will get there.

It's also important to point out the distinction between atherosclerosis, risk of a cardiac event, and abnormal lab values. Atherosclerosis takes years to develop and I'm not aware of any research linking a few months of ****ty lipids with an increased lifetime cardiovascular risk. If you've ran a ton of cycles over the years, I'd bet you are at increased risk but if you've only ran a few it may be insignificant.

I totally agree with jaydollars that if more people, myself included, checked their lipids mid-cycle we would see this more often.

How did you handle it with the doc? Did you tell him what you took? Did he give you a script or did he just tell you to stop?

I assume you will be getting a few follow up lipid panels in the coming months. Please post them so we can all learn.

 

[ambulldog]

thats why i wont touch methyls. not even the "mild" ones

 

[BigBlackGuy]

thats why i wont touch methyls. not even the "mild" ones

Yah man, if the liver is compromised, so are lipids. Very smart man here :heart: LOL

 

[ambulldog]

Yah man, if the liver is compromised, so are lipids. Very smart man here :heart: LOL

well if i were 25-30 and still indestructible id prolly do them. at 42 you worry more about health than muscle

 

[Yaz]

IMHO it's unlikely to get that results even mid cycle from this drug. Drugs that usually destroy this much your HDL are the classics Winstrol and Anavar, never seen anything like this with H-Drol and similar compounds like T-bol, D-bol etc. Even with drugs like a SD,Anadrol the usual ranges i have seen are not below 10-15 ....
I believe that your HDL was already low before the cycle and that's were you are mistaken, you should never go into a cycle without previous bloodwork and values within normal ranges, because without a baseline after cycle bloodwork won't be at any good use.

I would recommend Omega 3s at 3-6 grams ED(talking about only EPA/DHA), Red Yeast Rice at 2,5-3 grams ED, High Fiber(both from diet and supps) shoot for a total 20-30grams ED and obviously 2-3 hours cardio/week at least.
The above will certainly help you recover sooner and return your HDL within normal ranges in about 2-3 months i believe.

 

[shem]

That's scary dude but try not to freak out. There is lots of research showing these kind of lipid alterations from AAS and they seem to go back to normal. It will probably take a few months but they will get there.

It's also important to point out the distinction between atherosclerosis, risk of a cardiac event, and abnormal lab values. Atherosclerosis takes years to develop and I'm not aware of any research linking a few months of ****ty lipids with an increased lifetime cardiovascular risk. If you've ran a ton of cycles over the years, I'd bet you are at increased risk but if you've only ran a few it may be insignificant.

I totally agree with jaydollars that if more people, myself included, checked their lipids mid-cycle we would see this more often.

How did you handle it with the doc? Did you tell him what you took? Did he give you a script or did he just tell you to stop?

I assume you will be getting a few follow up lipid panels in the coming months. Please post them so we can all learn.

I just straight up told him. He then followed with, "what if I tell you they are bad for you". It seems like hes downplaying the severity of the low HDL due to him knowing anabolics have this side-effect. If I wasn't on anything, it would be a different story.

 

[jbryand101b]

I've been running a 5 week cycle of Helladrol (50/50/75/100/100). Supplemented with cycle assist, fish oil, multi-vitamins, taurine. Had blood work done a few days ago and the results are in. My HDL was a 6, and no it isn't a typo, doctor has checked.

same thing I said to the other guy, welcome to steroids.
:wink1:

Is there anything else I should be worried about?

of course, significant negative changes in cholesterol is only 1 side effect you can experience from steroid usage. There are countless more possible negative side effects you can experience. both short term, and long term. This is why research is stressed so much, so you know what you may be getting yourself into, that way when something like this, or gyno happens, it isn't a suprise.

all potential side effects should be expected.

it's like that law thingy, if it can go wrong, it will or w/e.

and if you dont experience a side effect, you got lucky!

 

[shem]

I'm getting new blood-work done this Thursday so I'll keep the thread updated when I get the results.

 

[jbryand101b]

blood work will be useless to tell you anything unless you have pre cycle blood work.

only thing it's going to let you know is how you compare to what is normal for males of your age/race

but those number may not be what is normal for you personally.

 

[soontobbeast]

Dayum man, that's crazy. Grab some toco-8 it'll help out with the cholestrol levels as well.

Why does no one mention green tea extract for anything? especially for support supps?


green tea extract is exponentially better for lipids,blood pressure, anti oxidant power, etc than vitamin E.

 

[shem]

blood work will be useless to tell you anything unless you have pre cycle blood work.

only thing it's going to let you know is how you compare to what is normal for males of your age/race

but those number may not be what is normal for you personally.

Regardless, being at a 6 for HDL means I will being doing a lot of follow-up blood work.

 

[heebs10]

I've been running a 5 week cycle of Helladrol (50/50/75/100/100). Supplemented with cycle assist, fish oil, multi-vitamins, taurine. Had blood work done a few days ago and the results are in. My HDL was a 6, and no it isn't a typo, doctor has checked. Obviously, I'm stopping my cycle short and running my PCT asap (clomid -50/50/50/50, PCT assist, creatine). Is there anything else I should be worried about? As well as, is there anything I can add to help up my HDL.

- I'm 22, 6'1, 225[/QUOTE

what were your LDL levels, just wondering?

 

[shem]

I've been running a 5 week cycle of Helladrol (50/50/75/100/100). Supplemented with cycle assist, fish oil, multi-vitamins, taurine. Had blood work done a few days ago and the results are in. My HDL was a 6, and no it isn't a typo, doctor has checked. Obviously, I'm stopping my cycle short and running my PCT asap (clomid -50/50/50/50, PCT assist, creatine). Is there anything else I should be worried about? As well as, is there anything I can add to help up my HDL.

- I'm 22, 6'1, 225[/QUOTE

what were your LDL levels, just wondering?

LDL was 129

 

[jbryand101b]

looks like you need to stay away from aas, and focus all your attention on lowering your bad cholesterol and significantly increasing your good.

I'm talking extreme measures, like all veggie diet, various forms of intense exercise, and supplements.

steroids just aren't for some people. I'd say it's a pretty safe bet you weren't really healthy to begin with, but without pre cycle baseline blood work, who knows what kind of shape your insides were.

 

[Skigazzi]

Add 900mg Pantethine per day. (not pantothenic acid).

Its got some good backing for liver and lipids improvement.

 

[BigBlackGuy]

Why does no one mention green tea extract for anything? especially for support supps?


green tea extract is exponentially better for lipids,blood pressure, anti oxidant power, etc than vitamin E.

Good we sell that too lol Green Tea

 

[EasyEJL]

Regardless, being at a 6 for HDL means I will being doing a lot of follow-up blood work.

get on crestor for a month, your hdl should be close to 40 by the end of that, along with making sure you are taking in fish oil and the other suggestions mentioned. You want to get it back up as fast as is possible, the longer it stays, the more arterial plaque you add.

 

[DBinMD]

shem,
HDL of 6, I can beat that. Mine was down to 3.

My normal lipids were 210 ttl; ldl 185; hdl 25. Last summer my family doc put me on simcor (simvistatin + niacin). After 2 months I got sick, my liver enzymes were thru the roof, and my new lipids were ttl 137; ldl 134 and hdl 3. Took me off that, then late December he gave me the lowest dose of crestor possible and within 5 days I was so sick I couldn’t move. So I guess statins may not be for me. That would include red yeast rice because it has the same mechanism.

January I had to have a quadruple bypass (almost died), so I guess it’s time take it really seriously. To that end I did 5 days of cardio (wasn’t allowed to lift for awhile, anyway) and bumped my fish oil up to 5 gms a day (AHA recommendation) and 1.5 gms of krill oil, and 500mg of niacin. Fish oil is only claimed to lower cholesterol by 10% which isn’t enough, but there are some studies that krill can lower by 30%. I’ve done 1.5 gms of plain niacin in the past with good results but it gives me insomnia.
My lipids after only 1 month were ttl 198; ldl 147; hdl 51; I had lower ttl taking the 1.5 gms of niacin but never an HDL of 51. If I can get it to 59 it becomes a negative risk factor. My cardiologist still wants to put me on Lipitor, I declined in order to see what I could do naturally first. My surgeon and my wife disagree with my cardiologist, anyway.

Even though what works for me, may not for you my recommendation is:
Statins should be your last resort.
You may get good results naturally:
5gms of fish oil,
1.0-1.5 gms of krill,
cardio (now that I can lift I’m gonna see if I can get away with 3 days of cardio)
Niacin – any niacin will do if you don’t mind the flush that comes with it (I’ve bumped it up to 600 mg/day).
Whatever you do, get frequent blood work especially if there is a family history of cholesterol/heart disease.

It might seem like a lot, but you can’t lift without a heart.

 

[shem]

shem,
HDL of 6, I can beat that. Mine was down to 3.

My normal lipids were 210 ttl; ldl 185; hdl 25. Last summer my family doc put me on simcor (simvistatin + niacin). After 2 months I got sick, my liver enzymes were thru the roof, and my new lipids were ttl 137; ldl 134 and hdl 3. Took me off that, then late December he gave me the lowest dose of crestor possible and within 5 days I was so sick I couldn’t move. So I guess statins may not be for me. That would include red yeast rice because it has the same mechanism.

January I had to have a quadruple bypass (almost died), so I guess it’s time take it really seriously. To that end I did 5 days of cardio (wasn’t allowed to lift for awhile, anyway) and bumped my fish oil up to 5 gms a day (AHA recommendation) and 1.5 gms of krill oil, and 500mg of niacin. Fish oil is only claimed to lower cholesterol by 10% which isn’t enough, but there are some studies that krill can lower by 30%. I’ve done 1.5 gms of plain niacin in the past with good results but it gives me insomnia.
My lipids after only 1 month were ttl 198; ldl 147; hdl 51; I had lower ttl taking the 1.5 gms of niacin but never an HDL of 51. If I can get it to 59 it becomes a negative risk factor. My cardiologist still wants to put me on Lipitor, I declined in order to see what I could do naturally first. My surgeon and my wife disagree with my cardiologist, anyway.

Even though what works for me, may not for you my recommendation is:
Statins should be your last resort.
You may get good results naturally:
5gms of fish oil,
1.0-1.5 gms of krill,
cardio (now that I can lift I’m gonna see if I can get away with 3 days of cardio)
Niacin – any niacin will do if you don’t mind the flush that comes with it (I’ve bumped it up to 600 mg/day).
Whatever you do, get frequent blood work especially if there is a family history of cholesterol/heart disease.

It might seem like a lot, but you can’t lift without a heart.

Thanks for your input, was scared when you said you had a quadruple bypass (thinking you were my age) then I saw your age ;P. I'll make sure to bring all this up to my doctor tomorrow, I don't like the way he's downplaying this.

 

[DBinMD]

shem,

Well, at this point you don’t know what the cause is. I’ve seen some wacky stuff out there. I have a niece that’s 28 and has a cholesterol level of 500 and I’m sure she’s never done any anabolics. You’ll need to get a normal reading before you can make a fully informed decision; I’m not sure how long that takes. You may need to do it frequently especially if you participate in anything risky. Don’t assume the anabolics were sole cause of your problems. I plan on getting my blood work done about every 3 months.

The liver stress mentioned previously may have had something to do with it. I say this because your numbers looked like mine when I almost lost my liver to the statins.

 

[mmk64]

Start eating a lot of saturated fats (coconut oil and animal fat are my favorites). There are tons of studies that suggest that this will increase your HDL. Of course, stay away from simple carbs and processed food in general as they are the main culprit behind atherosclerosis (as well as smoking of course). Keeping insulin and blood sugar under control for heart health is overlooked way, way too often. Can't blame cholesterol for doing it's job when it tries to repair your damaged arteries! And for the love of god, please please do tons of scientific research before ever considering taking a statin regardless of what anyone tells you

 

[DBinMD]

I'm skeptical about eating lots of sat fats to increase HDL. I made a cursory search and saw some of those studies. I'm not qualified to evaluate them. However, my peeps at Johns Hopkins say just the opposite and, since I can personally vouch for their work, I'm going to make an effort to be careful about them .

 

[soontobbeast]

what is the debate?

its common knowledge that saturated fats increase HDL. its also common knowledge that they increase LDL. the OPs ldl:hdl ratio is ALREADY TERRIBLE.

UNsaturated fats lower ldl and raise hdl. this is what you need. - along with polyphenols to help raise hdl.

 

[shem]

Thought I would give a little update. Did some recent blood work and my HDL is back up to 39, so that's good news. I've been off helladrol for more than a month now and feeling great.

 

[DBinMD]

better, but borderline, not much room for error. Has your LDL changed from 129? The current recommendations are hdl >39 and ldl = 100. You might want to increase the omega's, add 500 mg of niacin and keep an eye on it.

 

[shem]

better, but borderline, not much room for error. Has your LDL changed from 129? The current recommendations are hdl >39 and ldl = 100. You might want to increase the omega's, add 500 mg of niacin and keep an eye on it.

I had my blood work done today and the doctor called me to inform me about my HDL, said nothing about LDL though.

 

[BURNT DICE]

Is Helladrol the same formula as H-drol, as in CEL H-drol?

 

[bravemac]

Niacin, Omega3, policosanol and other few supps will help you.. Omega3 in primis.
Pct at 50/50/25/25 will be enough.

 

[BURNT DICE]

Ok, so I am currently taking CEL H-drol. I am on day 14 of a 50/50/75/75/75,support sups, clean diet, SERM for PCT and did pre-bloodwork that came out good. I went w/ h-drol because it was noted to be mild and a good beginner stak, but I read this $&@; and frankly, it's scary

Couple questions:
Right now I am not doing cardio, but typically do. stopped pre-cycle. Should I take from this that for a methylated compound I really should be doing cardio, and how much?

If I tone back by cycle to 50/50/75/75 or even 50/50/50/50 do I stand a notably better chance of minimizing lipid or other issues

I am almost 39 and prior to my cycle I searched for info on safety at my age and never really heard that as a concern before this thread. Does that change things

How uncommon is Shems results. Am I too freaked out by this. At this point for me should I maybe not read too much into it and finish my cycle as planned?