Gyno Surgery (Pre-Op Questions & Post Op Results)

[Mikereyn513]

That's weird you can't sleep I your side I wouldn't think that would directly affect anything like laying on your stomach

 

[match]

That's weird you can't sleep I your side I wouldn't think that would directly affect anything like laying on your stomach

Yeah, who knows, I was just following the instructions. But I didn't have any notable pain really throughout, so sleeping on my back may have been a factor in that.

But I miss getting a good solid night's sleep. Find myself dozing off here and there through the day now, passing out on the couch, etc. Trying to make up what I haven't been getting at night.

 

[Hyde]

Do not remotely worry about how it looks just yet. There will be a lot of subtle change that will take place as time passes.

That's weird you can't sleep I your side I wouldn't think that would directly affect anything like laying on your stomach

They want to prevent drainage evenly. If you lay on one side too soon and there’s too much subq water pooling, that would not be ideal for the fastest recovery.

 

[Mikereyn513]

Do not remotely worry about how it looks just yet. There will be a lot of subtle change that will take place as time passes.



They want to prevent drainage evenly. If you lay on one side too soon and there’s too much subq water pooling, that would not be ideal for the fastest recovery.

That makes sense thanks @Hyde

 

[Mikereyn513]

Yeah, who knows, I was just following the instructions. But I didn't have any notable pain really throughout, so sleeping on my back may have been a factor in that.

But I miss getting a good solid night's sleep. Find myself dozing off here and there through the day now, passing out on the couch, etc. Trying to make up what I haven't been getting at night.

That's the worst bro...dozing off here and there because your getting shitty sleep I start getting irritated which makes it worse and all you can think about is please just let me get some real sleep fir just a few hours

 

[Hyde]

That's the worst bro...dozing off here and there because your getting shitty sleep I start getting irritated which makes it worse and all you can think about is please just let me get some real sleep fir just a few hours

Driving like that is the worst!

 

[match]

Driving like that is the worst!

I feel almost literal pain when I try to drive while nodding off. It is absolutely the worst.

 

[Mikereyn513]

I feel almost literal pain when I try to drive while nodding off. It is absolutely the worst.

That's so weird because I do to when I snap out of the doze I get this really weird shocking pain

 

[match]

That's so weird because I do to when I snap out of the doze I get this really weird shocking pain

Mine is almost emotional as much as physical. I just stress when I feel that way.

I almost drove off a cliff when driving tired as a teenager. Interstingly, I swerved into the other lane as a big rig was heading right at me, blared its horn, and woke me up in time to avoid the truck and the fall.

That's probably where the stress comes from for me, little bit of PTSD probably still rattling around in my subconscious.

 

[Mikereyn513]

Mine is almost emotional as much as physical. I just stress when I feel that way.

I almost drove off a cliff when driving tired as a teenager. Interstingly, I swerved into the other lane as a big rig was heading right at me, blared its horn, and woke me up in time to avoid the truck and the fall.

That's probably where the stress comes from for me, little bit of PTSD probably still rattling around in my subconscious.

Yea that'll for sure do it

 

[match]

Day 10:

Took another look under the vest today. Swelling has gone down some more and things are looking a lot more symmetrical than they did even two days ago. I'm excited to see where things go from here. Next appointment is Friday where they said they expect to clear me from having to wear the vest.

Have a lot of numbness still. Can't feel my nipples at all right now (no big loss there, almost a relief after having been so preoccupied with them for the last 10-20 years) and the general area around them is also quite numb (similar to how your lip feels 30-60 minutes after you get a filling).

I can lightly contract my pecs and they feel good. They feel weak though, but that's probably because of the numbness and probably some sort of defense mechanism by my body to prevent me from doing anything dumb.

I took my last celebrex (nerve painkiller) pill today. Haven't taken tylenol for awhile. It'll be interesting to see if things feel any different once the celebrex is out if my system.

 

[match]

Did a little bit of jogging at work today just to catch a manlift. Nothing felt weird in my chest so I think I might try some lite eliptical work at home this week, and then ease into some light lower body stuff (high rep leg extension, lunges). Doc said that at day 10 I could start doing a treadmill or stationary bike, and by day 14 I should be cleared to lift 15 lbs and do some light weights.

Left elbow is still a little sore if I try to lift something with an outstretched straightened arm (think: doing a lat raise with an aluminum water bottle). So I think I might go with some really light forearm work next week and maybe give my elbow 1 more week to heal up.

 

[match]

In the meantime, I've been dissecting my previous work out routine in preparation for my new (and vastly improved) mesocycle for proper periodized training.

Current plan is to do maintenance calories for 4 weeks (once I'm back to 100% in the gym) with an emphasis on upper back and upper chest hypertrophy (most of this last year was a focus on arms, which seemed to work, but I think I could have gotten better results with less/no tendonitis if I had used a better training program). After those 4 weeks of maintenance, I'm planning a 6 week fat burning phase to try to lose 12 lbs and then maintenance for 4 weeks and then a bulk for 6-10 weeks following that.

Really excited about the next year of training I have in front of me. Hoping to line things up so that we can go to Hawaii in June and I can look and feel like a million bucks!

 

[MrKleen73]

Sounds like things are going great for you. You should look into some self myofascial release for your elbow issue. Could have it up and ready to rock by the time you can use any real weight. You can find a lot on youtube under that or Active Release therapy tutorials.

 

[match]

Sounds like things are going great for you. You should look into some self myofascial release for your elbow issue. Could have it up and ready to rock by the time you can use any real weight. You can find a lot on youtube under that or Active Release therapy tutorials.

I'll look those up later today when I have some time, thanks!

 

[match]

Day 12:

Had my follow up appointment with the surgeon today.

She liked the way things are looking. Said there's still some swelling so even what I'm still seeing will decrease before things have settled into the final shape. My chest is notably smaller (and I didn't have much in the way of noticeable gyno).

So if anyone out there is thinking of getting this surgery, just go into it with the knowledge that you've probably got a LOT more removable tissue (and thus, less muscle) than you might realize. I thought I had a good idea of what things would look like in the end (as far as pec size goes) but I was underestimating. That being said, I'm still happy with how things look and excited to see where things go.

This also really spurs me on all the more to make chest hypertrophy one of my main goals in the coming year (the other being to build a larger/wider upper back). I spent a few hours this week putting together notes and have drafted the exercises and workout split I'll be using for my first mesocycle once I can fully resume training. All I need now is to assign tempo, rep ranges and rest intervals.

 

[match]

My surgeon also said I could start doing cardio again. I told her I'm not a big fan of cardio (sort of a half truth, I LOVE cardio inducing sports like Hockey and Soccer) and I said the hardest part of this right now is not lifting weights.

So she was kind and gave me permission to do "whatever you want with lifting for legs" (paraphrasing as best as I can remember). Music to my ears. So I now have 3 leg days planned for each week until I'm cleared to work everything else (which likely won't be til day 42, but odds are I'll be impatient and start incorporating very isolated arm work prior to that). The important thing she stressed was not to do anything that involved moving my arms.

I don't intend to go overboard with the leg workouts. I don't have access to any leg machine lifts (with the exception of leg curls/extensions), and I don't want to risk anything by loading a bar with heavy weights, so I won't be squatting with a bar or doing any deadlifts. Current plan is to start off just with the elliptical for 15-30 minutes, then leg extensions, immediately into body weight squats (no rest between extensions and squats) for a few sets, then some lunges, and finish up with calves.

I'll incorporate leg curls once I feel confident I can lay on my chest safely, and might add dumbbells to squats, and maybe some other movements as I progress through the next few weeks. It'll be more of just kinda "working out" than really training, but knowing me I will still probably meticulously log everything, you know, for science.

 

[Mikereyn513]

Sounds good @match you're getting closer by the day. I know this is bro science but doing legs and elliptical will prime everything else for growth once you're able to resume everything else

 

[match]

Sounds good @match you're getting closer by the day. I know this is bro science but doing legs and elliptical will prime everything else for growth once you're able to resume everything else

I also set aside all of my PA supplementation during the time off. I feel like there is a notable difference already in my general muscle size (like, stuff shrank), and I'm figuring it's probably a combo of: no pump supps throughout the week, no regular movement of fluid into and out of the muscle bodies to keep them loaded with water, and no real necessity for glycogen to be getting shuttled into them, keeping them full.

My hope is that either the above is mostly responsible, or that it's just all in my head (body dismorphia, yay!), and not that it's significant atrophy. I've been very diligent about eating protein all throughout the day in an efforr to stave off breakdown of as much lean tissue for protein as I can, but I'm sure atrophy has to be a part of the equation (the question is just if it is the main contributing factor to what I perceive or if it's close to negligible).

 

[match]

My scale weight this morning was 189, down from 196 on the day of surgery. So there's dedinitely something going on, especially since I've still been eating a lot and less physically active.

Again, my hope is that is mostly a water weight thing, I have trouble thinking it's entirely caloric, because I've been less active with roughly the same diet (and minus the PA supp).

 

[Mikereyn513]

7 pounds isn't too bad so it's probably glycogen/ water loss, nothing to be too concerned about. I know body dysmorphia can make 7 pounds feel like 70 tho I get it lol

 

[Hyde]

Don’t sweat it - important thing is you get to train legs!

 

[match]

Don’t sweat it - important thing is you get to train legs!

Yep, first work out was pretty easy, but I plan to do them 3 days a week so I figure I should make some nice short term gains (haven't done 3 leg days a week... ever I think, maybe waaaay back in my early days of lifting as a 19 year old I might have been doing full body 3/4 days a week, I don't remember). I'll wait and see what sort of DOMS the workout produces and adjust it from there on Tuesday when I do it again eventually dialing it in to just the right amount for gains without an excessive build up of fatigue.

Was just so nice to get a sweat going and get the endorphins in my blood stream. All finished up now and feelin like a million bucks!

 

[MrKleen73]

My scale weight this morning was 189, down from 196 on the day of surgery. So there's definitely something going on, especially since I've still been eating a lot and less physically active.

Again, my hope is that is mostly a water weight thing, I have trouble thinking it's entirely caloric, because I've been less active with roughly the same diet (and minus the PA supp).

Oh No! It's official you are losing all of your muscle!!!! I kid, I kid!

You have lost a little muscle tissue no doubt but most of that is more than likely fluid and glycogen retention. Only way you would lose a lot more muscle tissue is dieting while not using the muscles. I have lost about an inch on my left arm over the last 2 months of not being able to train it and not able to move it much at all for the last 5 weeks. The good news is that I know it comes back very quickly. When I had my first SLAP Repair I was out of lifting for 3 months and my right arm looked like a little boys compared to my left. However within about a month or so of training again my entire right side had reinflated to wear there was no visible difference in size between right and left. Muscle memory is a beautiful thing!!!!!

Don't worry too much about the size, I know body dysmorphia gets a lot of us but it will come back fast. Right now I just kind of laugh when I look at my right arm stretching my sleeve and my left one with parts of the sleeve so loose they don't touch my arm. I know how fast it comes back so not worried at all this time.

 

[mTOR25]

This thread makes me want to just take massive doses of an AI and SERM during my cycle! I have a small pretty much undetectable amount of gyno but I didn't realize how much recovery time this surgery has or the fact that removing the glands causes indentation possibly! I have literally an unlimited supply of tamoxifen but I'm about to order rolaxiphene like tonight!!!

 

[Smont]

My scale weight this morning was 189, down from 196 on the day of surgery. So there's dedinitely something going on, especially since I've still been eating a lot and less physically active.

Again, my hope is that is mostly a water weight thing, I have trouble thinking it's entirely caloric, because I've been less active with roughly the same diet (and minus the PA supp).

Don't let the scale or your strength at the moment bother you. When your ready to get back at it for real it's all gonna come back in a matter of weeks and even tho at first it will suck, before you know it, it will be awesome because you will make lightning fast progress like never before until your back to where you left off and often you will surpass it in the process.

I missed some of this thread, how did you feel the first 3 days post surgery?

 

[match]

Don't let the scale or your strength at the moment bother you. When your ready to get back at it for real it's all gonna come back in a matter of weeks and even tho at first it will suck, before you know it, it will be awesome because you will make lightning fast progress like never before until your back to where you left off and often you will surpass it in the process.

I missed some of this thread, how did you feel the first 3 days post surgery?

The first day I was really tired and slept a lot. The anesthesia lasted for a few days post surgery, and between that and the pain meds (celebrex and tylenol, I never had to use the percocet) the entire recovery has been essentially painless.

The toughest thing was getting good sleep for the first entire week. I was back to moving my arms pretty well after just a few days, but I took it real easy and played it very safe with regards to lifting just about anything for the first 2 days. I even needed assistance getting in and out of bed, and off the couch.

All in all it's been about as good as I could hope for. My biggest 2 pieces of advice would be: train yourself to be comfortable sleeping on your back and on an incline (like maybe start with naps and then progress to full nights), and expect to be mostly useless to the world for the first week (you're going to want to rest, you're not going to want to carry very much, and you shouldn't be driving yourself anywhere). My wife was amazing and took wonderful care of me through it all, until I recovered enough to be able to handle things on my own.

 

[match]

This thread makes me want to just take massive doses of an AI and SERM during my cycle! I have a small pretty much undetectable amount of gyno but I didn't realize how much recovery time this surgery has or the fact that removing the glands causes indentation possibly! I have literally an unlimited supply of tamoxifen but I'm about to order rolaxiphene like tonight!!!

Yeah, if what you have is indetectable then I would say the surgery really isn't necessary. But if it ever bothers you because it gets worse, I can tell you that right now I don't regret the procedure and the recovery feels like it's going by pretty quickly.

And they have procedures that they can follow up with if you end up with indentations or too much assymetry. Statistically they said that 20% of surgeries need a follow up surgery to correct something. Not all that surprising when you consider just how discerning (and subjective) the human eye and mind can be when it comes to judging appearance.

 

[Smont]

This thread makes me want to just take massive doses of an AI and SERM during my cycle! I have a small pretty much undetectable amount of gyno but I didn't realize how much recovery time this surgery has or the fact that removing the glands causes indentation possibly! I have literally an unlimited supply of tamoxifen but I'm about to order rolaxiphene like tonight!!!

Taking massive ai and serm doses are a absolute horrible idea. The negative health impacts of those drugs are worse then the negative health impacts of the steroids themselves.

You want to find the minimum effective doses

 

[Smont]

If you want to avoid gyno you don't pump yourself full of gyno protection drugs, you limit or eliminate the drugs that cause the gyno. You stick to low doses of testosterone and dht derivatives. You stay away from wet compounds, you don't use sketchy prohormones that you don't fully understand, and you avoid 19 nors.


You can use low doses of test stacked with
Primo
Mast
Eq in moderation
Anavar
Tbol
Anadrol
Winny
Sarms
GH and GH peptides.
Plenty of options.


Think about this. There's two clubs in town, one club is a nice place where everybody's going to go and have a good time nothing sketchy is going on. The other place is also very fun but there's often risks of shootouts and stabbings and all kinds of problems that go on there because of the types of people who hang out there.

So do we go to the sketchy place with a loaded gun to protect ourselves or do we just avoid that place all together and go to the other club

 

[gphagan1]

If you want to avoid gyno you don't pump yourself full of gyno protection drugs, you limit or eliminate the drugs that cause the gyno. You stick to low doses of testosterone and dht derivatives. You stay away from wet compounds, you don't use sketchy prohormones that you don't fully understand, and you avoid 19 nors.


You can use low doses of test stacked with
Primo
Mast
Eq in moderation
Anavar
Tbol
Anadrol
Winny
Sarms
GH and GH peptides.
Plenty of options.


Think about this. There's two clubs in town, one club is a nice place where everybody's going to go and have a good time nothing sketchy is going on. The other place is also very fun but there's often risks of shootouts and stabbings and all kinds of problems that go on there because of the types of people who hang out there.

So do we go to the sketchy place with a loaded gun to protect ourselves or do we just avoid that place all together and go to the other club

I love the night club analogy…..but it’s so true. There are so many good compounds that don’t have a negative impact on estrogen, and some on your list actually seem to lower estrogen, that you can easily build an excellent cycle without the need for an AI.

 

[Mikereyn513]

If you want to avoid gyno you don't pump yourself full of gyno protection drugs, you limit or eliminate the drugs that cause the gyno. You stick to low doses of testosterone and dht derivatives. You stay away from wet compounds, you don't use sketchy prohormones that you don't fully understand, and you avoid 19 nors.


You can use low doses of test stacked with
Primo
Mast
Eq in moderation
Anavar
Tbol
Anadrol
Winny
Sarms
GH and GH peptides.
Plenty of options.


Think about this. There's two clubs in town, one club is a nice place where everybody's going to go and have a good time nothing sketchy is going on. The other place is also very fun but there's often risks of shootouts and stabbings and all kinds of problems that go on there because of the types of people who hang out there.

So do we go to the sketchy place with a loaded gun to protect ourselves or do we just avoid that place all together and go to the other club

Dammit @Smont And I here I thought @Hyde Was the genius with analogies and dumbing $hit down lol

 

[Smont]

Dammit @Smont And I here I thought @Hyde Was the genius with analogies and dumbing $hit down lol

Hyde has some great explanations that make you think

 

[Smont]

I love the night club analogy…..but it’s so true. There are so many good compounds that don’t have a negative impact on estrogen, and some on your list actually seem to lower estrogen, that you can easily build an excellent cycle without the need for an AI.

If I could start over knowing everything I know now I would have done everything completely different

 

[gphagan1]

If I could start over knowing everything I know now I would have done everything completely different

Me too brother !

 

[Hyde]

If you want to avoid gyno you don't pump yourself full of gyno protection drugs, you limit or eliminate the drugs that cause the gyno. You stick to low doses of testosterone and dht derivatives. You stay away from wet compounds, you don't use sketchy prohormones that you don't fully understand, and you avoid 19 nors.


You can use low doses of test stacked with
Primo
Mast
Eq in moderation
Anavar
Tbol
Anadrol
Winny
Sarms
GH and GH peptides.
Plenty of options.


Think about this. There's two clubs in town, one club is a nice place where everybody's going to go and have a good time nothing sketchy is going on. The other place is also very fun but there's often risks of shootouts and stabbings and all kinds of problems that go on there because of the types of people who hang out there.

So do we go to the sketchy place with a loaded gun to protect ourselves or do we just avoid that place all together and go to the other club

I feel like my earlier cycling history is analogous to frequenting ghetto Atlanta stripclubs in the early 2000s

 

[MrKleen73]

I feel like my earlier cycling history is analogous to frequenting ghetto Atlanta stripclubs in the early 2000s

I am with you there!

 

[barische]

Pics or thread useless.

 

[Hyde]

So you got some titty pics or what??

From the Atlanta stripclubs?

 

[gphagan1]

I guess you could take your pick on which set you would rather see……

Or……

 

[gphagan1]

Sorry I put Boobs in your thread Match. Let me know if you need me to remove them…..don’t want your wife getting the wrong idea.
I could say I was just giving examples so we would have something to compare by.

 

[match]

Sorry I put Boobs in your thread Match. Let me know if you need me to remove them…..don’t want your wife getting the wrong idea.
I could say I was just giving examples so we would have something to compare by.

All good bro, these forums never cease to amuse me.

Plus, my wife has a better rack than both of them!

 

[Mikereyn513]

I guess you could take your pick on which set you would rather see……

View attachment 222878

Or……

View attachment 222879

Gp always taking care of his bro mike with the pics

 

[match]

Gp always taking care of his bro mike with the pics

Note Mike said pics, he liked em both!

 

[match]

Got another work out in today (just cardio and some leg stuff). Felt great! Added a couple sets in search of DOMS, will probably continue to do so until I get them.

Sooo psyched to start my next phase of training once I get the all clear to do everything I want with the iron. My workout plan is... well, it's big. Gonna be starting off week 1 with 2 sets of most exercises and some of the days already have like 18 sets... and the intention is to add sets to any muscle groups that aren't sore for at least 2 days. So the potential for a LOT of volume (perhaps too much?) is very high. Focus is going to be on prioritizing back (lats) and chest (pecs). Will be trying to go for the phase potentiation approach to hypertrophy training (as explained by Dr Mike of RP).

Finally bought a belt with a chain for weighted pullups/dips too. Very excited to use that.

Left elbow is still aching and sore when I hold things with just that left side. Trying to do some occasional myofacial massaging, but I can't tell if it's getting any better yet. At least I can say it definitely isn't getting any worse.

If anyone has any interest in seeing my workout plan, and giving it a critique, I'd love to bounce ideas off of you and hear your thoughts. Let me know. Goal is always physique based for me (hypertrophy, as opposed to strength/athletic development).

 

[Hyde]

Day 1: Calves
Day 2: Calves
Day 3: Calves
Day 4: Calves
Day 5: Calves
Day 6: Calves, Obliques
Day 7: Rest (and stretch Calves)

Just send my fee to my PayPal ASAP, thanks.

 

[match]

Day 1: Calves
Day 2: Calves
Day 3: Calves
Day 4: Calves
Day 5: Calves
Day 6: Calves, Obliques
Day 7: Rest (and stretch Calves)

Just send my fee to my PayPal ASAP, thanks.

 

[Mikereyn513]

Note Mike said pics, he liked em both!

 

[MrKleen73]

Not having seen the workout, I would like to remind you that a lot hypertrophy can be achieved with small adjustments. After the amount of time you have had off 12-15 sets per body part a week should get the job done. Then you can add volume as you go systematically adding more points of adaption causing more growth with less work and stress to your body. Too often people come back from being off an try to rush to former glory or strength and don't take advantage of all of the points of adaptation they have available for new or regrowth due to their detrained state.

Also I would not use soreness as your guide or goal for training. Unless you are so sore you can not train unhindered but that is on the opposite end of the spectrum from what you are discussing. That being said I am sure we would all enjoy seeing what you have planned.

 

[match]

Not having seen the workout, I would like to remind you that a lot hypertrophy can be achieved with small adjustments. After the amount of time you have had off 12-15 sets per body part a week should get the job done. Then you can add volume as you go systematically adding more points of adaption causing more growth with less work and stress to your body. Too often people come back from being off an try to rush to former glory or strength and don't take advantage of all of the points of adaptation they have available for new or regrowth due to their detrained state.

Also I would not use soreness as your guide or goal for training. Unless you are so sore you can not train unhindered but that is on the opposite end of the spectrum from what you are discussing. That being said I am sure we would all enjoy seeing what you have planned.

Hopefully the font size works for whatever screen you're viewing this one. Let me know if the image is too small.

The plan is to use the RP phase potentiation method. 4 week mesocycles, increasing in volume and intensity from week to week. And then resetting after the 4th week. So any set that has a + (ie 2+) will be 2 sets on the first week, and if fatigue is not too high for that muscle group after 2 days, the sets will increase by 1 on the following week. Week 1 sets will be 3 reps in reserve, week 2 sets will be 2 RIR, week 3 will be 1 RIR, week 4 will be to failure.

Rest times for a lot of the exercises are currently left blank so I have some freedom to figure out what the right amount of rest is for each exercise, in order to keep the workouts as efficient as possible (so they don't end up being 3 hours long by week 4). Ideally, the second set (and subsequent ones) will be rested enough to get into the rep range.

I've also noticed that with some exercises (dips and pull ups for example) I don't usually feel like my lats or pecs are the limiting factor, so I feel like I haven't gotten enough out of them for those muscle groups in the past. So if you wonder why I have exercises like lat prayers or flies first on a day, it's with the intent to pre-exhaust those muscle groups so that they are what fails first.

Where you see the generic 2 sets of forearms each day, I have a rolling rotation of 9 forearm exercises that I track on a separate sheet. That's why there aren't specific exercise names (and it's not really 2 sets, it's actually 2 forearm exercises, and 4 sets of each).

Feel free to pick this apart. I'm not absolutely committed to this and would welcome advice/critiques. But I am definitely excited to try this out.