Gyno, PLEASE HELP.

EddyRay

Member
I've been on my cycle for exactly one week.
It is as follows:

500mg Test EW
300mg Deca EW
30mg Dianabol ED

Today I noticed my left nipple was pointy and puffy. There is a small pea sized lump behind each of my nipples but neither is painful when I squeeze it. The left nipple is bigger (puffier/pointier) than the right (it always has been due to remnants of teenage gyno but it's definitely worse now). Both are puffy in appearance. The left is a bit sensitive but not all the time.

Surely it's the dianabol causing this and not the other compounds, they shouldn't be taking effect yet, should they? Even if it's just the d-bol, I guess it means I've got a predisposition to gyno.

So how do I fix this? I was thinking, should I take .25mg Arimidex EOD and 10mg Nolva ED?

Once the problems subside, should I continue this protocol as a means of prevention?

Please help me with this guys. I really appreciate it.
 
i had a simpler problem last week while on test e, they were really sore and my niples were huge, started having 10mg nolva before bed it cleared it up, il take it for another week.
 
Unfortunately I'm unable to obtain letro. I've asked several dealers and not a single one has it. :(

i had a simpler problem last week while on test e, they were really sore and my niples were huge, started having 10mg nolva before bed it cleared it up, il take it for another week.

Thanks a lot, mate. That's reassuring. The only thing I'm concerned about is the fact that some people have said not to use Nolva while on Deca. I figured as long as it's used in conjunction with Arimidex then it shouldn't be an issue. I'm just concerned about suppressing my Estrogen that much.
 
Unfortunately I'm unable to obtain letro. I've asked several dealers and not a single one has it. :(



Thanks a lot, mate. That's reassuring. The only thing I'm concerned about is the fact that some people have said not to use Nolva while on Deca. I figured as long as it's used in conjunction with Arimidex then it shouldn't be an issue. I'm just concerned about suppressing my Estrogen that much.

there are many research chemical websites that have it. (but its obviously not for human use though)
 
You should have AI's on hand for aromatizing steroids. You need to use an AI for this cycle.

They are easier then ever to obtain on AM... lol
 
I have seen that running arimidex and nolvatogrther cancels out the blood concentration and negates both effects. Not sure if ts true but just do a quick search just in case. Aromasin would work better
 
You should have AI's on hand for aromatizing steroids. You need to use an AI for this cycle.

They are easier then ever to obtain on AM... lol

Yeah, I have Arimidex on hand, 100 1mg tabs so more than enough to take as much as needed.
AI may be easy to obtain on AM but it seems doubtful that they'd ship all the way here to the UK.
 
I have seen that running arimidex and nolvatogrther cancels out the blood concentration and negates both effects. Not sure if ts true but just do a quick search just in case. Aromasin would work better

Hoooly sh*t... How did I not come accross that information before? :11: I just checked, you're absolutely right! They cancel each other out. A-dex is it, then. You saved my skin, bro. (Can't get Aromasin -.-)
 
Hoooly sh*t... How did I not come accross that information before? :11: I just checked, you're absolutely right! They cancel each other out. A-dex is it, then. You saved my skin, bro. (Can't get Aromasin -.-)

Where did you read/find that? I'm having a hard time believing it since they both operate with such different mechanisms of action.
 
Where did you read/find that? I'm having a hard time believing it since they both operate with such different mechanisms of action.

I can no longer find it. It didn't explain why, it merely stated that they counteract each other. This is confusing me now.
What is your opinion regarding the combining of the two substances? (Also, do you have any suggestions as to how I might be able to go about my problem?)
 
well, take a look at the 2 compounds. arimidex is a suicide aromatase inhibitor. It binds to the aromatase enzymes which otherwise would bind with your testosterone to produce estrogen. Nolvadex is a weak synthetic estrogen which attaches to the estrogen receptors in breast + other tissue, preventing actual estrogen from binding there. I really don't see how either could affect the other. Not saying its impossible though.

As far as your issue, its a tough call. If you aren't seeing other high estrogen sides like bloating, i'd just go with nolva alone, and maybe drop the dbol. Because with the preexisting pubertal gyno, any hormone fluctuations could make it worse so at least keeping the estrogen from binding there makese sense. Have to think that your bodyfat isn't too high at your height/weight, so you shouldn't have too heavy of an aromatase level given your age, so the arimidex isn't as necessary.
 
well, take a look at the 2 compounds. arimidex is a suicide aromatase inhibitor. It binds to the aromatase enzymes which otherwise would bind with your testosterone to produce estrogen. Nolvadex is a weak synthetic estrogen which attaches to the estrogen receptors in breast + other tissue, preventing actual estrogen from binding there. I really don't see how either could affect the other. Not saying its impossible though.

As far as your issue, its a tough call. If you aren't seeing other high estrogen sides like bloating, i'd just go with nolva alone, and maybe drop the dbol. Because with the preexisting pubertal gyno, any hormone fluctuations could make it worse so at least keeping the estrogen from binding there makese sense. Have to think that your bodyfat isn't too high at your height/weight, so you shouldn't have too heavy of an aromatase level given your age, so the arimidex isn't as necessary.

I actually checked my bodyfat with a 4 point caliper about 10 days ago, before my cycle. I was sitting at 7%.

I'm guessing I'll drop the dianabol in that case, which is a real shame. It's helped me gain 10lbs since last Sunday. Still, no amount of weight is worth risking gyno over. Say I were to continue the dianabol, (which there is a chance of 99% that I won't), what would be an advisable protocol to avoid issues with gyno?

Also, I'm guessing that you don't buy into the whole deca = no nolvadex thing.

Thank you so much.
 
Eh, 10lbs of dbol gains in a week is under 1lb of muscle, and 9 of water realistically, so not a huge difference either way. If it were me, and I was going to continue the dbol, i'd probably start with 10mg nolva daily and see how that felt after a few days, and if it was still bothering me or getting worse probably add .5mg arimidex e3d or so.

Well, its possibly better to avoid nolvadex if you are on a high dose of deca, but 300mg isn't bad. Sure clomid might be better, but from what it sounds like you already have the nolva, and starting sooner is better.
 
Hah, oh man... 1 SOLID POUND OF HEAVING MASS!
Back down to earth... I was hoping it would be at least 2.2lbs of muscle. Oh well.

True, the majority is obviously going to be water, however the accompanying strength gains have been incredible and I can't help but think that the resulting increase in intensity will lead to greater muscle gains. I'm hoping this cycle will yield a minimum of 20lbs of keepable mass once PCT has been completed.

With regards to your comment regarding Nolva, I do indeed have it already. Thanks for the world class advice.
 
Where did you read/find that? I'm having a hard time believing it since they both operate with such different mechanisms of action.

Read this as well, when used in conjunction with Letro and Adex, nolva will reduce plasma levels, thus reduce effectiveness. Aromasin seems to be the exception and IMO is the best AI to use on cycle.
 
GET SOME LETRO AND READ THIS !!!!!!!!!!


Hope this answers all of the questions regarding gyno prevention and reversal, the use of letrozole and other anti-e’s. I will go over everything in very simple easy to understand language. Also we are talking about estrogen gyno here, not progesterone (but using letro will stop progesterone related problems as well since it inhibits all estrogen anyways). Progesterone gyno will be enlargement of your nipple area, the actual areola, not a lump under it.

Let me make this first point very clear, as I state in my signature this is from my personal experience, so whether you agree with it or not is your own issue. I have helped many people with gyno and it has worked just fine for them as well.

To first understand why you are doing what you are doing I am going to go over a few things and a few definitions:

SERM– Selective estrogen receptor modulator. These drugs work by binding to the estrogen receptors and flooding them in a sense, making it difficult (but not impossible by any means) for estrogen to bind to the receptors and thus prevent the onset of estrogen related side effects.
Most common forms: Tamoxifen (Nolvadex), Clomiphene (Clomid)
AI – Aromatise Inhibitor. These drugs work by inhibiting the aromatization of estrogen. This means that in effect AI’s prevent androgens from converting to estrogen, again, making it difficult (but not impossible) for estrogen to reach receptor sites.
Most common forms: Anastrozole (l-dex, a-dex), Exemestane (Aromasin), Femara (letrozole). For our purpose of reversing gyno we are interested in Letro.

Letro and your sex drive:
Letrozole will suppress your sex drive. This is another reason why it is so important to act on preventing gyno as soon as possible. Since we all know that Test should be run in every cycle this will cancel out the effect of sex drive suppression.

Running letro to prevent gyno:
If you decide to run estrogen protection while on cycle (and I suggest you do unless you are aware that you do not require it), you can run either a SERM or an AI. Letro will be the most powerful AI you can use, it will inhibit 98+% of estrogen using a dose as low as .25mg and even lower. This is why I suggest you do not use a dose higher than .50mg while on cycle just trying to prevent estrogen related side effects.

You will want to start running the letro approximately 2 weeks before you begin your cycle to allow it to fully stabilize in your blood. I have often heard the argument that letro takes up to 60 days to stabilize, I don’t know if I buy into this for the reason that I have reversed gyno after using letro for only 1 week. Still to be safe I recommend starting it before your cycle as stated above.

If you do decide to run letro there is absolutely no need to run another AI or SERM. Do not make the mistake of thinking more is better. Think of it this way; if letro is preventing the conversion of androgens to estrogen than there is no estrogen, what would the purpose of a SERM be when there is no estrogen to bind to the receptors? Nolva will only take away from the effectiveness of letro.

This brings me to my next point. Do not listen to anyone who tells you to bump up your nolvadex to 60+mg ED if you get gyno. I have no idea where this idea started but I have seen it suggest far too many times recently. Nolvadex will do nothing to reverse your gyno…let me make that clear IT WILL DO NOTHING FOR GYNO. If you are running nolva as your anti-e and start to develop gyno than sure you can bump the dosage a small amount to try to prevent it from progressing further, but letrozole must begin ASAP.

It is very important that you begin taking letrozole immediately, the longer your wait the more risk you take in not being able to reverse it.

How do I know if I have gyno?
If you have developed gyno you will have a lump behind your nipple. It will be fairly hard, and it will be tender to touch.

Running letro to reverse gyno:
I am going to go over the three different scenarios which people could fit into. Remember regardless of what scenario you are in it is important that you begin taking the letro ASAP.

1. Already using an anti-e aside from letro.
2. Already using letro @ a dose of .25mg or .50mg ED.
3. Not running any estrogen protection.

1.
Day 1: .25mg Letro + anti-e*
Day 2: .50mg Letro
Day 3: 1.0mg Letro
Day 4: 1.5mg Letro
Day 5: 2.0mg Letro
Day 6: 2.5mg Letro **

2.
Day 1: .50mg Letro
Day 2: 1.0mg Letro
Day 3: 1.5mg Letro
Day 4: 2.0mg Letro
Day 5: 2.5mg Letro **

3.
Day 1: .50mg Letro
Day 2: 1.0mg Letro
Day 3: 1.5mg Letro
Day 4: 2.0mg Letro
Day 5: 2.5mg Letro **

*Regardless of the anti-e you are using it is important to still use it for the first day you begin letro as the letro will not have taken any effect and you by no means want your body to be without any protection when gyno is already prevalent.

** You will remain at this dose until gyno symptoms subside. Once you believe your gyno is gone it is important to stay at this dose for another 4-7 days to ensure all traces are gone. I recommend people with a bf% over 15 stay on for a week as it may be harder to judge completely whether the lump is completely gone. Once this period is over it will be important to taper letro down slowly rather than coming off it completely. Regardless of which manner you tapered up your dose you will all taper down in the same fashion.

Day 1: 2.0mg
Day 2: 1.5mg
Day 3: 1.0mg
Day 4: .50mg***
Day 5: .25mg
***You can remain at this dose or go down further to .25mg. It is really up to you at this point. They are both very common maintenance doses as an anti-e while on cycle. Personally I have stayed with .25mg and never had a problem.

Letro and the estrogen rebound:
With your estrogen being completely inhibited there is a definite estrogen rebound as your body tries to re-stabilize the testosterone/estrogen balance. We can prevent this rebound effect by supplementing further with another AI or SERM. So, I suggest that when you are coming to the end of your cycle you will more than likely be using Nolva in your PCT so just make sure that you begin taking nolva the last day you are going to take your letro and then continue on as you would with regular PCT.

This now leads us into the question of reversing gyno while not on cycle. There are a few things to remember here. You have already waited longer than you should have, and your sex drive will be shot. You can use tribulus or another natural test booster to help you in this scenario but I can’t guarantee the effectiveness. Just follow gyno reversal protocols 2 or 3. When coming off again you must taper and begin using nolvadex to prevent any rebound effect that may occur.

How much nolvadex should you use if you are not going into PCT and running this off cycle? I suggest starting at 20mg ED for a week and then lowering it to 10mg for another week and then coming off completely
 
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