Group Accountability / Challenge thread

[Hyde]

We should have called this the Dad Bod Challenge - you win when you look like Cbum

 

[MrKleen73]

I’ve never seen my abs so I have no clue what I have under me

yeah it’s really impressive I was back checking the start of your log and was comparing. Definitely good work!

Thanks!

We should have called this the Dad Bod Challenge - you win when you look like Cbum

Nice!!! The challenge could take forever!

 

[Dustin07]

We should have called this the Dad Bod Challenge - you win when you look like Cbum

 

[Dustin07]

We should have called this the Dad Bod Challenge - you win when you look like Cbum

 

[Dustin07]

Kleen your arms are huge man.

Yesterday I had my normal clean breakfast and lunch. Did not have lifting day additional carbs or protein. Golfed a very poor 18 holes then went to a club dinner with this social club we are in. Baseball theme so I had a brat and drank moderately. Afterwards friends said their boat is anchored out... Let us taxi you by dinghy for a drink! Should have said no but they're good friends we don't see often and we haven't had good weather in 7 months so... A few more drinks and a late night philly cheese steak lol.

Woke up at 195 so still in good shape. What's really huge thought it is the weight my wife lost with one 36hr fast is STILL gone. So she's joining me next week for another one.

With true ADF today should be fasted, making next week my hardest fasting week yet (Mon/Weds/Fri)

My plan is probably to do yard work and fast till dinner though today. Eat and lift hard tomorrow. Then continue the cycle.

I could fast all day today but I plan to be doing very hard yard work (fence building and concrete work) and white frankly the last two nights are too much socializing for an inteovert like me so I want a meaningful date night with the wife



I am STILL blown away by fasting. I'm watching fat melt off yet my arms and pecs do not feel deflated....

 

[Segansational]

Subbed for the inspiration!

 

[Dustin07]

After getting seven posts in and concreted, plus the gate set, I'm breaking today's fast early at around 20hrs vs 36 but weight is still trending down. Tomorrow should be a fantastic gym session followed by an awesome week of cutting via three separate 36hr fasts.


Ignore the target and goal notations on the renpho app, not accurate or relevant lol

 

[MrKleen73]

Kleen your arms are huge man.

Yesterday I had my normal clean breakfast and lunch. Did not have lifting day additional carbs or protein. Golfed a very poor 18 holes then went to a club dinner with this social club we are in. Baseball theme so I had a brat and drank moderately. Afterwards friends said their boat is anchored out... Let us taxi you by dinghy for a drink! Should have said no but they're good friends we don't see often and we haven't had good weather in 7 months so... A few more drinks and a late night philly cheese steak lol.

Woke up at 195 so still in good shape. What's really huge thought it is the weight my wife lost with one 36hr fast is STILL gone. So she's joining me next week for another one.

With true ADF today should be fasted, making next week my hardest fasting week yet (Mon/Weds/Fri)

My plan is probably to do yard work and fast till dinner though today. Eat and lift hard tomorrow. Then continue the cycle.

I could fast all day today but I plan to be doing very hard yard work (fence building and concrete work) and white frankly the last two nights are too much socializing for an inteovert like me so I want a meaningful date night with the wife



I am STILL blown away by fasting. I'm watching fat melt off yet my arms and pecs do not feel deflated....

Thanks, I have to work hard on them because they are long as hell for my height I am 67" and some change tall and my arms wingspan is almost 75.

 

[akboom87]

New low this morning 250.4!! Pretty happy about that today. Also got a solid 10 hrs of sleep last night that was much needed. Meal prepped breakfast wraps for me and the wife for all week. Later on today I will meal prep my 2 meals for the week

 

[Rocket3015]

New low this morning 250.4!! Pretty happy about that today. Also got a solid 10 hrs of sleep last night that was much needed. Meal prepped breakfast wraps for me and the wife for all week. Later on today I will meal prep my 2 meals for the week

Meal prep is a great road to success !!

 

[akboom87]

Meal prep is a great road to success !!

It makes me stay consistent and accountable. Also a huge money saver so win win!

Even though I still complain and gripe when I see the prices in the store. Maybe that’s why I never get to go shopping anymore

 

[MrKleen73]

New low this morning 250.4!! Pretty happy about that today. Also got a solid 10 hrs of sleep last night that was much needed. Meal prepped breakfast wraps for me and the wife for all week. Later on today I will meal prep my 2 meals for the week

Congrats Brother!!!!

Meal prep is a great road to success !!

DAYUM STRAIGHT!

It makes me stay consistent and accountable. Also a huge money saver so win win!

Even though I still complain and gripe when I see the prices in the store. Maybe that’s why I never get to go shopping anymore

Hey man, prices suck everywhere now. If you get upset at the store I sure hope the wife gets the bills at the restaurants! They put scary numbers inside those nice receipt holders. It makes you appreciate store prices a little. LOL

 

[MrKleen73]

I am up 3 lbs today after my last free meal for a couple weeks. My sister was in Texas for something else and drove in to see me. So we went to her favorite Mexican place Pappasito's, they have some of the best fajitas around! They use the sacred inside cut skirt steak which is the most tender and flavorful cut. Most places can't even get it. You have to special order it even the restaurants do! You won't find it in a regular store. SOOOOOO GOOD! Anyway, we crushed the chips and salsa, had a couple margaritas, then split fajitas for two, and a piece of Tres Leches Cake.

The good news is that it looks like all those carbs, and sodium went into all the right places. I look more full and a little leaner this morning.

I am traveling this week for work so my regular eating and gym going pattern may be interrupted. I plan to fast about 20-24 hours tomorrow instead of going overnight to 36. I have a lot of more physical type of work than I normally do at work to get done and assume I might really benefit from eating tomorrow night. Lots of moving computers, monitors, crawling on the floor, under the tables doing makeshift wire management. It will be taxing to hit that for what might be a very long day of being bent over or crawling and keeping my arms overhead all the time with the wires. I want to recover overnight not wake up feeling beat up the day I want to train. I may sit in the hotel hot tub to relax my back tomorrow night just to alleviate a little tightness too if I have time.

Goal for the week is going to be to break under 205, not a lofty goal since my low yesterday was 205.2. However, since I will not be home, mostly relying on restaurant food, and an unknown work schedule. I am not going to say I am going to kill it. Also not saying I won't make more progress than expected. I may end up pushing more fasting if things are too hectic to get all my lifting in.

Since my hip is still feeling bruised I am not going to do any weight bearing leg work and will keep things to leg extensions and leg curls to just provide some stimulation to the legs. Upper body work will be kept in the 3-5 RIR range in the 8-15 rep range.

I will be starting on the Renaissance Periodization Hypertrophy App Beta Release in mid-May and run one of their programs after that. I am assuming my hip should be fully recovered by then.

 

[akboom87]

Congrats Brother!!!!
DAYUM STRAIGHT!
Hey man, prices suck everywhere now. If you get upset at the store I sure hope the wife gets the bills at the restaurants! They put scary numbers inside those nice receipt holders. It makes you appreciate store prices a little. LOL

Yeah I know it’s everything not just groceries. We have pretty much cut out going out for now, unfortunately we just don’t have anything that great around restaurant wise. We had a really good BBQ place but they closed up last year.

 

[MrKleen73]

Yeah I know it’s everything not just groceries. We have pretty much cut out going out for now, unfortunately we just don’t have anything that great around restaurant wise. We had a really good BBQ place but they closed up last year.

One of the things I love about my area is plenty of good grub available everywhere. Pretty much every type of food you can imagine we have here in Houston and the surrounding areas. It is quite a melting pot so we have everything from very authentic places from everywhere in the world to lots of fusion places too.

 

[Rocket3015]

It makes me stay consistent and accountable. Also a huge money saver so win win!

Even though I still complain and gripe when I see the prices in the store. Maybe that’s why I never get to go shopping anymore

My wife is retired, so she goes while I'm at work, I have no idea what stuff cost, except for fuel and supplements !

 

[akboom87]

I know it’s nothing fancy but when I was working in Amarillo for quite a while I would frequently hit torchys tacos I miss that place

 

[MrKleen73]

My wife is retired, so she goes while I'm at work, I have no idea what stuff cost, except for fuel and supplements !

Ahhhh, the goodlife. My wife and I share the grocery getting tasks so neither of us get to be blissfully unaware. Just be happy your daughter donates a lot of meats!

 

[MrKleen73]

I know it’s nothing fancy but when I was working in Amarillo for quite a while I would frequently hit torchys tacos I miss that place

Not sure how long ago that was. I used to really love Torchy's when they had their secret menus, and a few new taco flavors a week. Now that they have gone more franchise style they still make good tacos but none of my favorites made the main menu because they were all the really hot ones. So now I don't get as excited for them anymore. They do make good tacos though. Some of the best tacos around are from food trucks though. Nice fajita style tacos with fresh tortillas made at the pace of home cooking by the people who originated it!

 

[akboom87]

Not sure how long ago that was. I used to really love Torchy's when they had their secret menus, and a few new taco flavors a week. Now that they have gone more franchise style they still make good tacos but none of my favorites made the main menu because they were all the really hot ones. So now I don't get as excited for them anymore. They do make good tacos though. Some of the best tacos around are from food trucks though. Nice fajita style tacos with fresh tortillas made at the pace of home cooking by the people who originated it!

6-7 years ago probably now. Then spent some time working outside of Laredo (hated that) then spent a year working outside of Corpus Christi. Would drive up and spend time around Borne (spelling?) Fredericksburg,Kerrville. I loved it in that area.

 

[Rocket3015]

Ahhhh, the goodlife. My wife and I share the grocery getting tasks so neither of us get to be blissfully unaware. Just be happy your daughter donates a lot of meats!

I always pay her for them, I don't expect her to work for free.

 

[Dustin07]

Meal prep is a great road to success !!

My wife is retired, so she goes while I'm at work, I have no idea what stuff cost, except for fuel and supplements !

My meal prep looks hilarious this week since ADF puts me on a mon/weds/fri fasting schedule I only have meals prepped for Tuesday and Thursday

talk about a money saver though lol.

 

[Rocket3015]

My meal prep looks hilarious this week since ADF puts me on a mon/weds/fri fasting schedule I only have meals prepped for Tuesday and Thursday

talk about a money saver though lol.

That is kind of funny, a time saver also !!

 

[akboom87]

My meal prep looks hilarious this week since ADF puts me on a mon/weds/fri fasting schedule I only have meals prepped for Tuesday and Thursday

talk about a money saver though lol.

This adf that you are doing,you won’t be able to turn sideways when you take pictures at the gym… we won’t see you

All seriousness though sounds like you got a plan and will be interesting to see your results!!

 

[Dustin07]

This adf that you are doing,you won’t be able to turn sideways when you take pictures at the gym… we won’t see you

All seriousness though sounds like you got a plan and will be interesting to see your results!!

Ohhh idk man we will see.
Im holding at least an extra lb from yesterday so we will see what tomorrow brings or if I slowed myself a bit. But also this seems to truly be the most muscle sparing 'dieting' or cutting I've ever done it's crazy

 

[akboom87]

Ohhh idk man we will see.
Im holding at least an extra lb from yesterday so we will see what tomorrow brings or if I slowed myself a bit. But also this seems to truly be the most muscle sparing 'dieting' or cutting I've ever done it's crazy

Oh I for sure would agree. I’ve just been utilizing 1 24hr fast a week and it’s crazy what it does I look a lot leaner but fuller. Dropping weight feeling great.
Also though I have been pretty strict on diet and staying consistent so the combination of the two is we’ll straight up surgical

 

[MrKleen73]

5/1/23 - Fasted until Dinner, walked about 4 miles yesterday as well. Had a nice meal, Pork Ribeye with Habanero Chimichurri sauce, Roasted pickled cabbage, Spanish Rice, and a soft boiled egg I cut up into the rice. I also got some crispy potato fingerlings roasted in duck fat. SOOOOO GOOD! I had a protein bar around 9 also then went to bed.

 

[Dustin07]

so interesting tidbit here.
in the last 8 days, I have fasted 3 days for 36hrs and one for about 20-24hrs.
but had a killer deadlift session Sunday and today PR'd Bench again.

I don't believe this would have been possible on a daily caloric deficit.

I went into this 'cut' cycle with an evil ulterior motive. I wanted to see if I could eek out a PR or two while cutting 10lbs or more.

 

[Rocket3015]

I got to try this fasting thing !!

 

[akboom87]

5/1/23 - Fasted until Dinner, walked about 4 miles yesterday as well. Had a nice meal, Pork Ribeye with Habanero Chimichurri sauce, Roasted pickled cabbage, Spanish Rice, and a soft boiled egg I cut up into the rice. I also got some crispy potato fingerlings roasted in duck fat. SOOOOO GOOD! I had a protein bar around 9 also then went to bed.

View attachment 231757

Man roasted in duck fat I bet those were tasty!! It looks good, what’s on the menu tonight

 

[Dustin07]

Just had a thought
Worst part about this ADF is I have a hankering to lift tomorrow.

Best part of ADF is forced rest days.

 

[MrKleen73]

so interesting tidbit here.
in the last 8 days, I have fasted 3 days for 36hrs and one for about 20-24hrs.
but had a killer deadlift session Sunday and today PR'd Bench again.

I don't believe this would have been possible on a daily caloric deficit.

I went into this 'cut' cycle with an evil ulterior motive. I wanted to see if I could eek out a PR or two while cutting 10lbs or more.

Nice goal, give it hell!

I got to try this fasting thing !!

It's good stuff once you made it a couple days it wouldn't be so hard, but you have to break that circadian rhythm of ghrelin release first and get fat adapted so it isn't too exhausting. Maybe wait though you have enough on your plate.

Man roasted in duck fat I bet those were tasty!! It looks good, what’s on the menu tonight

This was lunch!

Salmon, and Bolognese bowl with broccoli sprouts, extra meat sauce and pasta. EXCELLENT!!!!

Dinner
For dinner I ate at Cava they make Mediterranean bowls kind of like a burrito bowl. I got a huge bowl with double honey harissa chicken, 3 scoops or rice a little of all the greens, the jalapeno feta, harissa hummus, tons of veggies, and a lot of harissa sauce, and washed it down with a mix of the cucumber mint, and old fashioned lemonade. So good I had 2 glasses! I ate about 2/3 then had the rest about 9:00. It was so full I had to ask for a 2nd bowl to mix it all up! The guy tried to put a lid on it before i could take a picture of it heaping over the bowl looking beautiful. Then squash and he realised the lid wasn't even close to going on. No longer picture worthy but is sure did taste amazing!

Just had a thought
Worst part about this ADF is I have a hankering to lift tomorrow.

Best part of ADF is forced rest days.

Yep! You tend to really want to go by the time you get to the gym, plus your joints will likely be able to recover better with more time between sessions. Something that at 40 is a great thing!

================================================================================

I just posted this in my thread...

After eating my last meal I went to get undressed and noticed I was looking leaner. Some of it is probably lighting but some of it is probably progress too. I have been paying a lot attention to my intake while enjoying my food choices as much as possible. So I would expect to see some progress with all of the walking. You can definitely see where my abs are starting to try and peak through now!

 

[Rocket3015]

Looking good, we will be seeing those Abs soon !

 

[Dustin07]

I got to try this fasting thing !!

you know what's weird/funny? This week I have only 2 days of meal prep in my fridge.
Breakfast, 1 cup jasmine rice + 7oz of ground turkey
Lunch is a salad with rice added for carbs and 7oz of chicken breast.
On top of that of course I have more carbs preWO, protein from various sources postWO, dinner etc.

but that's three days this week i'm not spending on food??
Today I looked in the mirror sorta confused. in my not so humble opinion my pecs look filled out and full. arms aren't "as big" as I'd like but generally speaking down almost 8lbs today and I'm not seeing a loss in size where I want to keep the size. abs aren't poking through violently yet but the leaning is making the chest pop more.

All this while eating less.... it's screwing with my mind in regards to how much food a human actually needs?? lol

I went to get undressed

No link to OnlyFans?
funny thing is even from that lower picture you can't hide the mountainous traps

 

[Jeremyk1]

I’m gonna start start following MrKleen around and steal his food. I mean help him with his fasting.

 

[MrKleen73]

Looking good, we will be seeing those Abs soon !

Thanks, I think I should look much better by 200 but probably need at least 10lbs to get the look I want.

you know what's weird/funny? This week I have only 2 days of meal prep in my fridge.
Breakfast, 1 cup jasmine rice + 7oz of ground turkey
Lunch is a salad with rice added for carbs and 7oz of chicken breast.
On top of that of course I have more carbs preWO, protein from various sources postWO, dinner etc.

but that's three days this week i'm not spending on food??
Today I looked in the mirror sorta confused. in my not so humble opinion my pecs look filled out and full. arms aren't "as big" as I'd like but generally speaking down almost 8lbs today and I'm not seeing a loss in size where I want to keep the size. abs aren't poking through violently yet but the leaning is making the chest pop more.

All this while eating less.... it's screwing with my mind in regards to how much food a human actually needs?? lol


No link to OnlyFans?
funny thing is even from that lower picture you can't hide the mountainous traps

Thanks, by the way where are your before pics? Did I miss when you psted them? Get em up my man!

I’m gonna start start following MrKleen around and steal his food. I mean help him with his fasting.

And that is when they broke everything in the restaurant fighting over food! You don't mess with a man's fast breaking meal!

 

[akboom87]

Originally I was hoping to drop 249-248 range this week but that has not happened yet. I’ve floated 250-252 this week so my goal is next week to get below 250!!

 

[Dustin07]

Originally I was hoping to drop 249-248 range this week but that has not happened yet. I’ve floated 250-252 this week so my goal is next week to get below 250!!

You were pretty close three days ago! Holding a little water maybe?

 

[akboom87]

You were pretty close three days ago! Holding a little water maybe?

Very well could be, and yes I’ve been at 250 most of the week one day I bounced in the morning to 252 but yeah. I’ve seemed to have slowed up a little since 253 it’s been a slow losing those 4 pounds

 

[akboom87]

Funny thing looking in the mirror I look leaner and more full if that makes sense?

 

[Dustin07]

Funny thing looking in the mirror I look leaner and more full if that makes sense?

Oh yeah totally get it fill them big ol muscles up with carbs and water and hit a PR!

I was feeling the same yesterday, today I feel a bit deflated so I'm curious to see what today's fast takes me down to and how tomorrow's lift goes with my carbs restored.....

 

[Rocket3015]

Very well could be, and yes I’ve been at 250 most of the week one day I bounced in the morning to 252 but yeah. I’ve seemed to have slowed up a little since 253 it’s been a slow losing those 4 pounds

You will get there with the work you are putting in, just keep your eye on the prize !!

 

[Dustin07]

woke up at 190.4 post fast today, so didn't quite make the 189.xx number but had a tiny sore throat starting yesterday so I threw down some elderberry capsules (rather than syrup) because they appear to be calorie free.
That said, may have sorta screwed up the fast in a slight insignificant way anyways because I threw my arginine powder into my daily creatine drink totally forgetting that arginine is an amino acid which would also break the fast. lol
oh well!

 

[MrKleen73]

woke up at 190.4 post fast today, so didn't quite make the 189.xx number but had a tiny sore throat starting yesterday so I threw down some elderberry capsules (rather than syrup) because they appear to be calorie free.
That said, may have sorta screwed up the fast in a slight insignificant way anyways because I threw my arginine powder into my daily creatine drink totally forgetting that arginine is an amino acid which would also break the fast. lol
oh well!

It is highly unlikely you messed up much of anything with that. Although autophagy really kicks into high gear if it was just a little it wasn't going to change your hormonal profile that much or for very long. Autophagy happens during any deficit, but it definitely improves more via fasting, and especially after a certain time period. So although I am sure your autophagy may have had a minor slow down, it was a hiccup in an otherwise well executed fast. Composition-wise I think if there is a difference it would be small enough not to be noticeable to you. So definitely not a ruined fast, just not a perfect one.

 

[Dustin07]

I had mentioned after a week I'd assess progress and see how things are going.
Well I had 5 x 36hr fasts in the last 12 days + 1 24hr fast and I've lost a solid 8lbs.
started at 200lbs
yesterday I had a full feed day, ending with some bizarre smoked salmon asiago fries (pnw version of chili cheese fries??)
this morning 192lbs.

however yesterday my energy level was completely sacked. so I'm going to take the next three days to eat around maintenance and see if 192 is legit or if I'm dehydrated. golf today in the rain, lift tomorrow, build a fence Sunday.
Mon/weds/fri lift per norm next week, 36hr fasts most likely Tuesday and Thursday.

189lbs was my goal for the most part and I'm basically 1 or 2 fasts from that so I don't need to rush things any more than I have being only 5 days into the month.

 

[MrKleen73]

5/5/23 - Back home! - Morning Weight 208.2lbs, Not too bad for no overnight fasts so far this week. I think I held myself down pretty well and don't expect a major set back here. I expected to be a little heavier with no full fasting days this week.

I am going to fast overnight tonight then start eating in the AM to go get a session in sometime tomorrow afternoon. I am hoping by Sunday to see a bit of a drop but since Saturday is a full day of eating I may not see the drop until Monday. I am not too worried about it and think I can still end up seeing some progress this week. If not, then by mid week next week I expect a new low. My fasting will resume it's normal course next week.

I am holding off on starting a new program until the RP Hypertrophy app comes out which is probably going to be next weekend or the following Monday. I intend to keep my training in effective ranges but not even come close to abusing my body because I want to start the new program fresh with plenty of room for adaptations throughout the program.

I am still contemplating either doing an oral run, ordering some oils for a run, and maybe even just sticking with my 200mg of test only. I am at a point I would like run a cycle, and honestly don't want to cut down into the 190's then blow up 10-15lbs when I could just kind of recomp myself to land around 200-205 but much leaner. Without sounding the alarms to everyone around me I am on a cycle. Just because I am not ashamed of it doesn't mean I want it to be that obvious to everyone around me that I already know won't approve. However at the same time I am not overly worried about that either.

I picked up 2 fresh bagels from breakfast this morning to save for tomorrow to help with carbing up. Will smear some spicy hummus on them tomorrow to get in some lowfat, easily digested carbs. Planning to push at least 300g of carbs tomorrow.

 

[Dustin07]

Without sounding the alarms to everyone around me I am on a cycle. Just because I am not ashamed of it doesn't mean I want it to be that obvious to everyone around me that I already know won't approve. However at the same time I am not overly worried about that either.

I get frustrated that its hard for people to discuss it without being attacked or put down as if you inject some new compound and automagically turn into Arnold with no hard work. I see guys posting in an over 40 group elsewhere who are jacked to the tits and clearly not natty and I want to ask about their stack and cycles but they ignore or pretend to be natural, while 20 other people reply and laugh and put them down chalking it all up to drugs. meanwhile they sit proudly with their dadbods (dadbod 1.0, not dadbod 2.0 / cbum style) as if that's the best they can do natty.

it's just a weird culture we've created.

a. You can accomplish so much more than these people think, 100% natural.
b. You have to bust your ass to make use of a good cycle.

but they live in a world where calling out others for juicing is their excuse for not getting ripped natty. hopefully that makes sense.

 

[MrKleen73]

I had mentioned after a week I'd assess progress and see how things are going.
Well I had 5 x 36hr fasts in the last 12 days + 1 24hr fast and I've lost a solid 8lbs.
started at 200lbs
yesterday I had a full feed day, ending with some bizarre smoked salmon asiago fries (pnw version of chili cheese fries??)
this morning 192lbs.

however yesterday my energy level was completely sacked. so I'm going to take the next three days to eat around maintenance and see if 192 is legit or if I'm dehydrated. golf today in the rain, lift tomorrow, build a fence Sunday.
Mon/weds/fri lift per norm next week, 36hr fasts most likely Tuesday and Thursday.

189lbs was my goal for the most part and I'm basically 1 or 2 fasts from that so I don't need to rush things any more than I have being only 5 days into the month.

Yeah, I thought that ADF was going to be aggressive for you. You could try what I have where you just get in 2 solid 36 hour fasts and the other rest day go for a meal in the evening. Get some carbs in you for the next day and preferably make that day a squat day if your goal is to push squats too.

 

[Dustin07]

Yeah, I thought that ADF was going to be aggressive for you. You could try what I have where you just get in 2 solid 36 hour fasts and the other rest day go for a meal in the evening. Get some carbs in you for the next day and preferably make that day a squat day if your goal is to push squats too.

funny thing is I felt small yesterday at 192, which is a weight I hadn't seen in like 10 years until 2023 lolol

 

[MrKleen73]

I get frustrated that its hard for people to discuss it without being attacked or put down as if you inject some new compound and automagically turn into Arnold with no hard work. I see guys posting in an over 40 group elsewhere who are jacked to the tits and clearly not natty and I want to ask about their stack and cycles but they ignore or pretend to be natural, while 20 other people reply and laugh and put them down chalking it all up to drugs. meanwhile they sit proudly with their dadbods (dadbod 1.0, not dadbod 2.0 / cbum style) as if that's the best they can do natty.

it's just a weird culture we've created.

a. You can accomplish so much more than these people think, 100% natural.
b. You have to bust your ass to make use of a good cycle.

but they live in a world where calling out others for juicing is their excuse for not getting ripped natty. hopefully that makes sense.

It completely makes sense! That is just how I feel. Sometimes I want to ask them if they think overeating regularly and not exercising at all is somehow less damaging to their body than me exercising regularly, using gear responsibly, and taking precautionary steps to keep my health markers from getting out of hand while doing so. Plus, I got an idea, come in and train with me then tell me if the gear is doing all the work, or am I in there enjoying punishing myself, and you have a hard time matching my intensity.