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Gr-Easy EJL's fish oil megadosing ala Charles Poliquin thread

TheCrownedOne said:
I apologize for my inability to espy that I - for whatever reason - am unable to be one of the cool people here and joke around. I'm also sorry that you didn't get that I was just trying to have fun like you and Trip seem to do all the time.

My apologies for existing and for attempting to joke around.

:yawn:
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I didn't get the joke. Can you explain the puch line?
 
And I was feeling guilty now and then for thread hijacking but you guys make me feel all warm n fuzzy again......

/hijack/ofhijacking
 
213 today Ok, so 20 days, up 13lbs. and i'm confident that maybe as much as 14lbs of it is lean :D I see some enhanced definition everywhere, not huge, but maybe as much as i'd expect from pound or so of weight loss. This is the last day of the bulk, calorie clipping begins.

So I'd say the fish oil was about as successful for bulking as anything could be. Mind you, I was taking a fair amount of other supps this whole time which are contributory

Leviathan, Incarnate, bulk powerFull (usually just prebed), Neovar

are the ones that would have some bulking effect. Definitely they played their parts in this as well. Still I've seen cycles of epistane that didn't end up 13lbs up. I'll post some pics later of a few body areas matching the ones 4 weeks ago just for y'all to critique and tell me if I'm wrong and it looks like fat has gone up anywhere
 
Thanks! yeah I really think that anyone who has hit a plateau of any sort should give GVT a 25 day trial as a workout scheme. It feels almost abusive as a workout, but I can physically feel the difference in chest muscle with my hands.
 
Good stuff. Most of the studies out there actually show fish oil to reduce symptoms of depression. But I swear I have seen before that mega dosing has the revers effect. I tried to find it a while back with no luck. Anyone else seen or heard of this?
 
How much do you normally increase cals when trying to put on weight? I have a pretty low maintenence level too, this sounds pretty interesting. Did you see anti-inflammatory effects as well?
 
Cool said:
How much do you normally increase cals when trying to put on weight? I have a pretty low maintenence level too, this sounds pretty interesting. Did you see anti-inflammatory effects as well?
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I was around 1600 over maintenance. Not easy to do with clean calories. I think there was antiinflammatory as well but hard to say based on my glucossmine chondroitin and cissus levels
 
I've got pics up from Aug 27 I think and today in my pal transformation thread as my last post there.

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I was looking at em, its hard to say whether I gained any fat or not.
 
EasyEJL said:
I've got pics up from Aug 27 I think and today in my pal transformation thread as my last post there.

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I was looking at em, its hard to say whether I gained any fat or not.
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Congrats on your progress EasyE, I gotta say i was having a hard time beleiving you gained so much weight in such a short amount of time. I can really see it in your pics though. You might have put a little fat on but that is easily reversable.
 
Distilled Water said:
easy you said you dont have pic's didn't you? Man i can't wait to CKD with fish oil. I'm probably going to try this in my P.C.T. this winter right before CKD. I'll take pic's also. I dont know about that GVT though.
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Distilled
I was wondering what your plan is specifically with the CKD?Hey easy if you drop back to maintenance fish oil doses try Barleans-so much better than VS.
 
EasyEJL said:
I was around 1600 over maintenance. Not easy to do with clean calories.
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I guess I'll be the a$$hole here and say it, but I think almost all of your gains were fat. Your BF % was too high to consider bulking, even for 4 weeks. You lost significant weight earlier this year, that makes it way too easy to fill out those fat cells again during a 'bulk'. 1600 above maintenance was crazy, should have started at ~500 above and assessed.

I don't think the one caliper measurement was very accurate, perhaps as accurate as the impedance meter. Go with a 3 point, or better yet a 7 point. You look to be a minimum of 22%, if not higher.

Before:

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After:
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Did you take ending waist measurements?

BF% Pics:

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This is ~15%:

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Again, not trying to be an a$$, piss in your cheerios and call you out, but I think you should reevaluate what you are doing and start that 'cut' ASAP.

Also, you might want to check out the Invalid Link Removed

As a FFB and you believe the '4:1 Fat/Muscle ratio' gained during a bulk, maybe you got 2#'s of LBM out of that.




X
 
Could a person just use flax oil and get the same effects? I ask because i despise the fish smell and it makes me ill even when i walk by the fish counter at the grocery store
 
Xodus said:
I guess I'll be the a$$hole here and say it, but I think almost all of your gains were fat. Your BF % was too high to consider bulking, even for 4 weeks. You lost significant weight earlier this year, that makes it way too easy to fill out those fat cells again during a 'bulk'. 1600 above maintenance was crazy, should have started at ~500 above and assessed.

I don't think the one caliper measurement was very accurate, perhaps as accurate as the impedance meter. Go with a 3 point, or better yet a 7 point. You look to be a minimum of 22%, if not higher.

Did you take ending waist measurements?

Again, not trying to be an a$$, piss in your cheerios and call you out, but I think you should reevaluate what you are doing and start that 'cut' ASAP.

Also, you might want to check out the Invalid Link Removed

As a FFB and you believe the '4:1 Fat/Muscle ratio' gained during a bulk, maybe you got 2#'s of LBM out of that.


X
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Thanks. Nah, i'm looking for honesty, not applause. Even at 22%, its still worlds better than 6 months ago. The cut has started now too :) I'll look at that article as well. I think I gained more than 2# of LBM tho, as I can feel the difference in muscles. My pecs are noticeably thicker. Around the waist I gained 1/2 inch. And I agree, the 1600 calories up was too much. I should be clear that that was vs sedentary calories tho, so vs "activity" based calories I was more like 900 up, which is still too high. I probably should have done the pictures as nudes too and just blurred out areas, as the underwear waistband bunches up some of the looser skin + fat and I look way different just moving them up + down.

Also, I'm doing a bodpod on Oct 22nd to get a real bf % and also doing a full metabolic rate test that day too, to get a good baseline.
 
I've read that article now, and pretty well agree with everything he said. Carbs are the devil for the former fat boy, thats for sure. I think I did better than the 4:1, partially due to doing GVT as a workout and the crazy fish oil dose, but who knows. it was worthwhile to add some weight back either way just as a shock, as my losses had slowed to an almost halt where I was. We'll see where I end up at oct 22!
 
conan1071 said:
Could a person just use flax oil and get the same effects? I ask because i despise the fish smell and it makes me ill even when i walk by the fish counter at the grocery store
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Not really. Flax is higher in Omega 6 oils and one of the problems we have is the ratio of Omega 3 to Omega 6 oils is already tilted in favor of Omega 6.

The capsuls may be of benefit to you. You could take those and bypass the taste.
 
Xodus said:
I guess I'll be the a$$hole here and say it, but I think almost all of your gains were fat. Your BF % was too high to consider bulking, even for 4 weeks. You lost significant weight earlier this year, that makes it way too easy to fill out those fat cells again during a 'bulk'. 1600 above maintenance was crazy, should have started at ~500 above and assessed.

I don't think the one caliper measurement was very accurate, perhaps as accurate as the impedance meter. Go with a 3 point, or better yet a 7 point. You look to be a minimum of 22%, if not higher.


Did you take ending waist measurements?

X
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I think we can all agree that the best way for Easy to have answered his own question, even without calipers, would have been to take before and after measurements of major body parts (ie chest, waist, hips, thighs and flexed biceps at least). Everything else is going to be too subjective.
I mean, you can say that your pecs look more defined looking in a mirror, but if you gained 14 pounds you should have added an inch to both your biceps and chest while decreasing your waist size. Those are results that can't be argued with.
 
yeah, waist definitely went up slightly. I went thru the closet and tried on a few different pants and i'd say they are fitting about like they fit when I was in the 204-206 range. By calipers I am up about 1mm actually (going back over other logs). so call it maybe 1% bf up. so probably of the 13lbs maybe 4-5 of it was fat.

So mabe I gained 7-8lbs of lean mass. at the waist I was at 37.5 at my lowest, i'm at 38 now. I couldn't get a good "cold" bicep or chest yet, as mornings have been crazy in the house. I'll see if I can get my wife to check those tomorrow.

still feel good overall. since starting with calipers in may, i'm down 10mm I believe. So it just means I started at even higher bf% than I thought, but i've still made solid progress
 
conan1071 said:
Could a person just use flax oil and get the same effects? I ask because i despise the fish smell and it makes me ill even when i walk by the fish counter at the grocery store
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I keep saying this try Barleans brand fish oil liquid-it's orange flavored and Ican't taste or smell any hint of fish it's amazing. Again I don't have nada to do with this co. just got lucky and tried.Now I will try to find it cheaper than where I bought it.
 
209 today... Surprisingly, i'm not so happy about it. Its too fast of a fluctuation. We'll see how it goes after a week or two. I am sweating like a mofo during cardio, so maybe some amount of it is retained water? I do feel a littler harder in the muscles. this morning I get calipered + measured at the gym, so i'll post those # as soon as I have em. Played with my own calipers some this morning, and I think I see what I was doing. If I squeeze them slowly I end up with a much higher number. I was squeezing them fast and harder. so my estimate of what its reading from now being slow and light on it is around 23% bf today. Still, that means that means back in may when I got them I was probably more like 28-30% rather than 23 :)
 
Ok, got measured at the gym, and it was 24% at a 3 point caliper. kinda sucks, but c'est la vie. just means when I started this long term transformation back in january I must have been well over 40% bf. horrifying. Waist was 3/4 of an inch bigger than when I started the fish oil megadosing at 200lbs. So I think i'm comfy with saying half my gains were lean, but half was fat. Makes sense really, as my calorie intake was way higher than it should have been. anyhow, I have already scheduled the bodpod reading for Oct 22 I think it was, and it will be around again in the beginning of december.

So now my goal is to hit below 18% for oct 22, and still see 10% by Jan 1. Actually, I'll go with Jan 17 for the date, as that was when I started the life change, at 245lbs.
 
EasyEJL said:
Ok, got measured at the gym, and it was 24% at a 3 point caliper. kinda sucks, but c'est la vie. just means when I started this long term transformation back in january I must have been well over 40% bf. horrifying. Waist was 3/4 of an inch bigger than when I started the fish oil megadosing at 200lbs. So I think i'm comfy with saying half my gains were lean, but half was fat. Makes sense really, as my calorie intake was way higher than it should have been. anyhow, I have already scheduled the bodpod reading for Oct 22 I think it was, and it will be around again in the beginning of december.

So now my goal is to hit below 18% for oct 22, and still see 10% by Jan 1. Actually, I'll go with Jan 17 for the date, as that was when I started the life change, at 245lbs.
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Hey dude, no sweat. You've made great progress and remember, geting into your desired shape is a marathon, not a 40 yard dash :) Just keep chippin' away!
 
Hang in there Easy. Lots of good diet advice around here and I know firsthand how easy it is to fool yourself into thinking you have it all nailed down. We've all been there.

I'm still there..but I don't care because I'm married. lol
 
I don't feel derailed at all, more like I had the odometer set to kilometers instead of miles :D

I'm definitely leaner than ever today. Looking downwards at my flABS, I can see where the top horizontal line on each side will be when they are fully visible. I've never been able to spot the one on the left before.
 
bioman said:
Hang in there Easy. Lots of good diet advice around here and I know firsthand how easy it is to fool yourself into thinking you have it all nailed down. We've all been there.

I'm still there..but I don't care because I'm married. lol
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So then, you're not having sex anymore either? :run:

Heehee... sorry. My wife's been holding out on me for awhile.
 
EasyEJL said:
Ok, got measured at the gym, and it was 24% at a 3 point caliper. kinda sucks, but c'est la vie. just means when I started this long term transformation back in january I must have been well over 40% bf. horrifying. Waist was 3/4 of an inch bigger than when I started the fish oil megadosing at 200lbs. So I think i'm comfy with saying half my gains were lean, but half was fat. Makes sense really, as my calorie intake was way higher than it should have been. anyhow, I have already scheduled the bodpod reading for Oct 22 I think it was, and it will be around again in the beginning of december.

So now my goal is to hit below 18% for oct 22, and still see 10% by Jan 1. Actually, I'll go with Jan 17 for the date, as that was when I started the life change, at 245lbs.
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For you at 209, 18% is ~13#'s of fat loss in less than 5 weeks, not counting any 'recomp'.

That is doable with some dedication.

Good Luck!


X
 
Another update, having looked into the GBC program I am running now some more, i'm also moving to a ketogenic diet (as it is meant to be coupled with one). I'm not sure precisely which format of ketogenic, but next to no carbs regardless. I think a single carb meal a week plan isnt all bad, i'm going to continue reading thru all the formats over this weekend then decide.

I cope well with low carb, so it should work out well. Going to shoot for around 2400 cal intake, 200+ protein, remainder fat, trace carbs (or from leafy greens with high fiber).
 
EasyEJL said:
Another update, having looked into the GBC program I am running now some more, i'm also moving to a ketogenic diet (as it is meant to be coupled with one). I'm not sure precisely which format of ketogenic, but next to no carbs regardless. I think a single carb meal a week plan isnt all bad, i'm going to continue reading thru all the formats over this weekend then decide.

I cope well with low carb, so it should work out well. Going to shoot for around 2400 cal intake, 200+ protein, remainder fat, trace carbs (or from leafy greens with high fiber).
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For your goals I think that is a great idea. What is this GBC training? I have an idea of my CKD training but i'm stil not sure......what ya got for me Easy?
 
Distilled Water said:
For your goals I think that is a great idea. What is this GBC training? I have an idea of my CKD training but i'm stil not sure......what ya got for me Easy?
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German Body Composition or Lactic Acid Training

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X
 
thats the more advanced one, also its a clean split. I'm doing the whole body one, which how can you say thats not advanced? anyhow the link is here

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What I like about this as well is that sets + supersets are different body parts. so its squats with bench presses, or leg presses with cable rows. sore head to toe! but also increases the lactic acid system wide, and so makes more growth hormone, and aids more in fat loss.

Or so I hope :)
 
Charles Poliquin recommend Nutrasea liquid fishoil, apparently he's tested quite a few brands, i believe 100 or so and found Nutrasea to be the best. I'm picking some up in a week or so once i finish up my Udo's oil, i have 2 friends doing 40g's of the Nutrasea fish oil day and love it, they are getting bigger and leaner, their body temperature is way up a well.
 
CHAPS said:
Charles Poliquin recommend Nutrasea liquid fishoil, apparently he's tested quite a few brands, i believe 100 or so and found Nutrasea to be the best. I'm picking some up in a week or so once i finish up my Udo's oil, i have 2 friends doing 40g's of the Nutrasea fish oil day and love it, they are getting bigger and leaner, their body temperature is way up a well.
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i just started 2 days agowith 4 tablespoons(12 teaspoons, 19.2 grams) with breakfast. today i was sweating like crazy for about 2-3 hours after taking. why is this
 
coconut oil has some of that effect too taken in high quantities. I remember reading why, but i'm drawing a blank
 
EasyEJL said:
coconut oil has some of that effect too taken in high quantities. I remember reading why, but i'm drawing a blank
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Coconut oil has a high concentration of MCTs which are burned by the body just like carbs and at the same rate but has twice the calories as carbs so theoretically you are burning more calories and thereby higher metabolism.
 
EasyEJL said:
thats the more advanced one, also its a clean split. I'm doing the whole body one, which how can you say thats not advanced? anyhow the link is here

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What I like about this as well is that sets + supersets are different body parts. so its squats with bench presses, or leg presses with cable rows. sore head to toe! but also increases the lactic acid system wide, and so makes more growth hormone, and aids more in fat loss.

Or so I hope :)
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Yea that does looks pretty tough. Hrmm I dont know which i'd go with. That looks real intense. I'll wait to see how you do with it until I make up my mine :)
 
EasyEJL said:
man, thank god i've never had that problem.
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Don't have kids!

I feel for you Bioman! I imagine it will pass (dear god, please let it friggin pass!!!!). But all I know is yesterday on the way back from lunch, the manhole cover in the street outside my office building looked attractive... Not a good sign.
 
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