Getting Lean and Mean with Epi/11-oxo (log)

KgTomCat said:
get those injuries fixed and if you wanna bump up the dose, do it
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Well the only way for the lower back to heal is to just give it rest so i'm probably not going to deadlift for awhile....maybe a year or so.

As for the knee it was feeling better today so i just need to stay away from running and db lunges.

I'll play the 50mg dose by ear....we'll see how i'm feeling with sides and everything.
 
So I had quads and calves tonight.....and my numbers just weren't there. Didn't sleep much at all last night and just kinda dragged through the day. Oh well i gave it my best...

Leg Ext - 285x8

Front Squat - 265x3

Back Squat - 315x5

Leg Press - 7pps x6

Seated Calf - 135x10
Standing Calf - 195x10
both superset with 10 raises from the floor in between each set

5 min cool down on bike

Everything is feeling really good. No apparent sides on entering my second week into 40mg. I think i'm going to up the dosage to 50mg tomorrow and ride that for the rest of the week. If all goes well I may up it to 60 for my last week or just keep it at 50 again. Will play it by ear and just keep an eye on things.

I would like to report that I did get a sty a few days ago....don't know if it's related to Epi usage but it doesn't hurt, itch, and isn't bad at all. Will keep an "eye" on that as well.

Diet has been going well - I weighed in at 212 sunday morning. Not as light as i'd like to be so it's time to take things down another small notch. I still have a decent amount of fat on my stomach and love handles, but everything considered I feel like I am making progress. After this week, i'm going to take my diet down to this....

Mon - 300p/200c/100f
Tue - 300p/125c/100f
Wed - 300p/50c/100f
Thurs - repeat mon
Fri - repeat tue
Sat - repeat wed
Sunday - free day with emphasis on eating high carbs, low pro, low fat
Carbs will be continued to be eaten in the AM and PWO (with the exception of the free day).
 
Upped the dose to 50 mgs today and felt great.

Here are my numbers from back and bi's

BB Curl - 100x5

30 min Ab Class

Lat Pulldowns - L15x6 (rack goes to 20)

Smith BB Rows - 275x4

HS High Row - 4pps x6 (both arms) then did a few reps with each arm till failure

4 sets of pullups with different grips to fail

DB Curls - 60x5

Concentration Curls - 45x6
 
I also like SS my back pulldowns with diff grips, etc..

how is the carb cycling working out for you? you say well, but how do you feel...I may start that or keep it low carb, not sure
 
KgTomCat said:
I also like SS my back pulldowns with diff grips, etc..

how is the carb cycling working out for you? you say well, but how do you feel...I may start that or keep it low carb, not sure
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It's working out pretty well. My strength is great and energy levels are good, even with eating carbs just in the AM and PWO.

I'll probably rock the 200, 125, 50 until I hit PCT at which point i'll probably bring my carbs up to 300 per day. PCT i'm more concerned with keeping gains and maybe even putting a little more muscle on if possible.
 
ktatro1 said:
how are your gains in strength, weight, vascularity, and bf% coming?
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I'd say i feel like my weight gains and strength gains have been the greatest.

My last weigh in I came in at 212. I started at 203. Granted I imagine that some of that is water, I started this cycle with a high cal carb rotation and have been slowly turning things down. I will re-weigh and snap photos this sunday as next week marks my last week on epi and my first week on 11-oxo.

Vascularity has improved a little. I have a larger vein that tends to stick out on my right shoulder (goes from front to side delt) and a smaller one in about the same spot on my left (primarily on the front delt). My calves are looking pretty good, i have some nice veins on those. When I do trap work I see a decent amount of veins pop along my upper chest, neck, and traps. The vein that runs through my right bi is looking pretty good, with the subQ veins on both arms looking more predominant than before.

Getting my BF% down has always been a bitch for me as I am endomorphic in nature. Lets remember here kids that diets are the key to losing bf, not ph/ds/aas. They may help...but your diet will play a serious role. That being said, I don't feel like my bf% has gone down much....but i feel like I may have put some muscle on. So I wouldn't be surpised if i've had a little recomp action. I'll let the pictures do the talking. Still no 6-pack or abs, but i don't let that get to me. Being ripped shredded would be sweet, but i don't see a need to be that way since i'm not competing and I have no problem pulling a$$ on the weekend.
 
gotta love those veins! ur deff gaining muscle bro...just keep your diet in check. diet is crucially important, this is my fifth week coming up and its getting harder and harder
 
KgTomCat said:
gotta love those veins! ur deff gaining muscle bro...just keep your diet in check. diet is crucially important, this is my fifth week coming up and its getting harder and harder
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Just wish I had more of them!

Here are my numbers from chest last night...

Flat BB Bench - 285x4, 300x1

Cable Crossovers (standing straight up with ankles together) - did a bunch here, about 5 sets.

Incline DB Press - 95x3, drop to 55x8

Decline Press - 185x4

BW Dips - 4 sets till failure

15 min ab class

*Note i'm still doing cardio in the am and pm if I feel like it - at this point i'm just tried of writing it down*
 
xx Zues xx said:
It's called the placebo effect.
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not necessarily. I can feel something new in my body almost from the first day. I wouldn't so much as call it placebo effect as being in-tune with your body. Having been a competetive level athlete my whole life I pretty much know the ins and outs of my body. I'm sure others here do too.
 
ktatro1 said:
not necessarily. I can feel something new in my body almost from the first day. I wouldn't so much as call it placebo effect as being in-tune with your body. Having been a competetive level athlete my whole life I pretty much know the ins and outs of my body. I'm sure others here do too.
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I felt epi on the first day......not really so much in my muscles but the sense of euphoria it brings. If I could pick one word to describe it....it's POW!
 
dumb question but are you starting PCT after the epi or after the 11-oxo? Im looking to run something similar but throw ECA in there. Thanks.
 
Epi is awesome. I have ran it several a few times in the last year and a half and have the same great results everytime, lean/dry gains that stay. I run Nolvadex XT afterwards and generally keep about 80% of what I gain. What's interesting is the fact that I generally gain most my weight from the cycle in the 2 weeks after the cycle is over and I'm in PCT. Good luck and good job!
 
jpower9 said:
Epi is awesome. I have ran it several a few times in the last year and a half and have the same great results everytime, lean/dry gains that stay. I run Nolvadex XT afterwards and generally keep about 80% of what I gain. What's interesting is the fact that I generally gain most my weight from the cycle in the 2 weeks after the cycle is over and I'm in PCT. Good luck and good job!
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Thanks man! It's been going great so far. I've been running at 50mg this week, and I think I will up it to 60 for the last week since my body seems to be handling Epi so well.

I expect to continue to make gains through PCT - i'm going to re-up my carbs a little bit and start hammering creatine and a pre-workout supp (I haven't used either in about 6 months!)
 
Shoulders and Traps

DB Press - 80x9

Seated Bent-Over DB Rear Delt - 45x6

45lb Plate Raises - 5 sets of 8+ reps

DB Laterals - 45x6

HS Shoulder Press - Did one big drop set - 80 per side, to 70 per side, to 45 per side (each set to failure)

Upright Rows - 100x6

BB Shrugs - 365x3

DB Shrugs - 150x4
 
So I weighed in Sunday - came in at 213. I snapped some photos (they are a bitch to take yourself) and did some comparos. I definitely notice a difference - my muscles look harder and fuller - and I look a little leaner but not much (still no visible 6 pack).

Had a couple of comments from people telling me I look a little leaner. Had a new roommate move in and she said that "I was the biggest guy she had ever seen and I looked like a hulk". I had to laugh cause there are dudes that are wayyyy bigger than me at the gym!

So i've decided that since i'm going to have a very odd and small amount of epi left over at the end of this cycle - to just go ahead and bump my dosage to 60mg this week and then use next week as a taper off which will work out perfectly leaving me with nothing left over.

I've also started the 11-oxo this week, looking forward to seeing how this stuff works!
 
TheDarkHalf said:
So I weighed in Sunday - came in at 213. I snapped some photos (they are a bitch to take yourself) and did some comparos. I definitely notice a difference - my muscles look harder and fuller - and I look a little leaner but not much (still no visible 6 pack).

Had a couple of comments from people telling me I look a little leaner. Had a new roommate move in and she said that "I was the biggest guy she had ever seen and I looked like a hulk". I had to laugh cause there are dudes that are wayyyy bigger than me at the gym!

So i've decided that since i'm going to have a very odd and small amount of epi left over at the end of this cycle - to just go ahead and bump my dosage to 60mg this week and then use next week as a taper off which will work out perfectly leaving me with nothing left over.

I've also started the 11-oxo this week, looking forward to seeing how this stuff works!
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sounds good man! Im getting ready for my next cycle, pre-loading some support supps as I type! :)
 
60mg today - I was in the zone! Lots of aggression in the gym and switched to a higher volume.

Leg Extensions - I did 5 sets here....ended with 290x10

Squats - 225 10x10 (this was intense I came very close to puking)

Leg Press - 2pps 5 sets of 10 reps, 3pps x10, 4pps x10, 5pps x10, 2pps x10

Hack Squats - I was dead so I did 3-4 light sets on here

Seated Calf - 45x10, 90x10, 135x10, 160x10 with 4 sets of 10 raises from the floor

Rotary Calf - 250x20, 270x20, 290x20 with 3 sets of raises from the floor

Standing Calf - 3 sets of 10 @ 175 with 3 sets of raises from the floor
 
I really like the aggression i've been having in gym @ 60mg! I've noticed my elbows have started to dry up a lil...but as this is my last week @ high dosages I really don't care :18:

Still haven't noticed much from the 11-oxo, as it is only day 3. Starting monday next week I will add lean xtreme.

Here's how last night went....

30 min abs class @ Golds

HS Low Row - 3pps + 25 x5

V-Bar Pulldowns - L14 x7

Seated Row - L14 x6

DB Row - 120 x5

BB Curls - 90x5

Concentration Curls - 45x7

Seated Curl Machine - did about 4 or 5 sets all to fail

*all sets preceding those above were sets of 10 reps; 3-5 sets were done before the big ones*
 
Ok, so something interesting happened to me today. I use Neet to remove hair from my forearms. As I was getting ready to start, I noticed that I have a rash on both arms. I went ahead and finished and afterwards the rash was even more present than before. It looks kind of like poison ivy but doesn't really itch as bad as poison ivy. I have never really had acne problems so I don't think it's acne but I don't know for sure. My face and back are not broken out. Could this have to do with the Decabolen? I have never had this kind of reaction before.
 
jpower9 said:
Ok, so something interesting happened to me today. I use Neet to remove hair from my forearms. As I was getting ready to start, I noticed that I have a rash on both arms. I went ahead and finished and afterwards the rash was even more present than before. It looks kind of like poison ivy but doesn't really itch as bad as poison ivy. I have never really had acne problems so I don't think it's acne but I don't know for sure. My face and back are not broken out. Could this have to do with the Decabolen? I have never had this kind of reaction before.
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never heard of this...just keep it clean
 
jpower9 said:
Ok, so something interesting happened to me today. I use Neet to remove hair from my forearms. As I was getting ready to start, I noticed that I have a rash on both arms. I went ahead and finished and afterwards the rash was even more present than before. It looks kind of like poison ivy but doesn't really itch as bad as poison ivy. I have never really had acne problems so I don't think it's acne but I don't know for sure. My face and back are not broken out. Could this have to do with the Decabolen? I have never had this kind of reaction before.
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My advice would be to stop using the Neet Immediately. I would also put some neosporin or anything with the words "triple antibiotic" ointment on your arms when you are home at night.

I'm not familiar with Deca - but it is possible that the Neet and Deca combo could have affect you in some way. I would do some more research and ask around.

KgTomCat said:
never heard of this...just keep it clean
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^^^X2
 
Here is how chest went tonight....another great session!

Incline BB - 225x7 (no spot), 260x4

Flat DB - 100x8, 110x6 (no spots)

Incline DB Flyes - 75x6

HS Decline Press - 3pps + 25 x6

BW Dips - a few sets to fail

Did a few sets of seated calves

15 min ab class @ golds
 
Pretty impressive on the DB flat, especially by yourself. Keep the posts coming.

As far as the rash/acne is concerned, I did some research and found that if I'm not getting enough milk thistle my body could react this way because my body is reacting to high levels of toxins. I up'd my dose of milk thistle to 2000mg and aamzingly my rash started to subside. It's not gone yet though.
 
jpower9 said:
Pretty impressive on the DB flat, especially by yourself. Keep the posts coming.

As far as the rash/acne is concerned, I did some research and found that if I'm not getting enough milk thistle my body could react this way because my body is reacting to high levels of toxins. I up'd my dose of milk thistle to 2000mg and aamzingly my rash started to subside. It's not gone yet though.
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Nice man good to hear that's clearing up. If you're not taking some cycle ancillaries I would suggest getting on that ASAP - IE i'm taking cycle assist
 
I'm taking Anabolic Innovations Cycle Support but I guess the milk thistle dosage was not enough. I'm now supplementing with an additional dose of milk thistle by itself.

I haven't taken Cycle Assist. Pretty good stuff? Who makes it?
 
jpower9 said:
I'm taking Anabolic Innovations Cycle Support but I guess the milk thistle dosage was not enough. I'm now supplementing with an additional dose of milk thistle by itself.

I haven't taken Cycle Assist. Pretty good stuff? Who makes it?
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KgTomCat said:
cycle assist is by CEL, good job on the BB Incline!!
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Thanks for the good looks Kg!

Cycle Assist seems to work well for me - one dose in the AM and on in the PM. Looking at it's ingredient profile, price, and serving count I think it's the best bang for your buck.
 
TheDarkHalf said:
Thanks for the good looks Kg!

Cycle Assist seems to work well for me - one dose in the AM and on in the PM. Looking at it's ingredient profile, price, and serving count I think it's the best bang for your buck.
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Ive heard that people space there PH dosing and Cycle Assist dosing apart as something in it (think it could be milk thistle) effects absorption of the PH, how do you structure your AM dosing with this in mind darkhalf?
 
I'm not sure how much milk thistle is in Cycle Assist but I have read and been told that 1000mg of milk thistle is the least amount you want to get in during a PH cycle. 2000mg is ideal. I recently found this out because of a toxic rash I'm now getting over. Your body can easily handle 500mg of milk thistle at a time so idealy you would dose 500mg 4X a day. Others say your body can handle it at 1000mg 2X a day. Your call. Because of my recent issue I'm dosing 500mg 4X a day. Hope this helps.
 
Im no pro, but IMO too many support supps will lessen the effect of the PH/DS...w/e it may be your taking. Thats why Im only taking fish oil and a liver tab 2X a day. Ive never used cycle assist, only Cycle Support. Other than the taste being something Ill never forget, it did its job
 
Nice log dark....i bought a second bottle of epi and have decided to run a six weeker at 30/30/40/40/50/50, just haven't started yet. Keep up the good work and intensity.
 
ktatro1 said:
Nice log dark....i bought a second bottle of epi and have decided to run a six weeker at 30/30/40/40/50/50, just haven't started yet. Keep up the good work and intensity.
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Thanks man i've been hitting it hard - gonna keep blasting it all the way through PCT
 
Just put my log up in the other section if you wanna follow along (url in the sig). Starting the cycle tomorrow morning. Let me know what you think about my cycle man. Hope you follow along. Hopefully my cycle is as successful as yours.
 
ktatro1 said:
Just put my log up in the other section if you wanna follow along (url in the sig). Starting the cycle tomorrow morning. Let me know what you think about my cycle man. Hope you follow along. Hopefully my cycle is as successful as yours.
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Looks like you have everything in order over there bro! Good luck!

Would like to report that I went to the tanning salon today as I usually do a few times on the weekend. I am pretty good friends and have a good rapport with the girls that work there...and one of them told me I was looking big and strong. So I tanned and got out..and the same one again..."like oh my gosh you've gotten so huge, you like put on 80lbs and your tattoos are even bigger." :head:

I argued that I hadn't really gotten bigger....but I had gotten leaner. They didn't understand that having less bf% makes your remaining muscle look bigger than it really does. But who knows maybe i have gotten bigger....the pics will tell it all!

Gonna snap in the morning and weigh in tomorrow
 
Forgot to snap pics today (i was out of it when I woke up - no biggie since I just snapped them last week).

I weighed in at 214 today - a lb increase over last week and this is after turning my cals down just a tad.
 
xx Zues xx said:
Anyone guna answer my question?
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hey man, milk thristle can inhibit some ph absorption, so i always alternate the dosing on my meals.. epi as i wake up, milk thristle during breakfast a half hour later.. then more milk thristle with lunch, then epi pre-w.o. a hour and half later.. then epi post w.o. and milk thristle later with dinner.

hope this helps
 
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