Getting Lean and Mean with Epi/11-oxo (log)

xx Zues xx said:
Ive heard that people space there PH dosing and Cycle Assist dosing apart as something in it (think it could be milk thistle) effects absorption of the PH, how do you structure your AM dosing with this in mind darkhalf?
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Sorry man don't know how I missed this......

I usually take cycle assist on an empty stomach right when I wake up (6:30am) and then take epi with breakfast (7:45-8ish).

I'll dose epi again at 12:45pm

And then i'll dose epi again preWO @ 5:30-45ish

Then take cycle assist with my PWO meal
 
if the compound your taking is methylated, you do not want to take it with something that protects your liver somehow
 
Nothing to report from yesterday's workout - just a typical leg day

Today's back workout was good - I nailed 4pps + 25 on the HS high row

Started Lean Xtreme this week (will start dosing 4 caps per day tomorrow) and starting to taper off of the epi this week. I'll continue to dose the 11-oxo and once that's gone i'll start PCT.

Had some compliments yesterday from some of my friends that live in my apt building that I was looking bigger - "Man you lost weight and now your looking bigger." I do feel like i've gotten bigger and have kept the fat gain minimal if none at all. SWEET!

:bow28:
 
grats on the compliments man. I'm stoked to see your progress pics. Everything sounds like its rolling along nicely.
 
Forgive me if I missed it, but do you take your Epi before cardio or strictly before lifting?

I usually do cardio/basketball for a couple hours and then lift after. Wondering when Epi would be more effective.
 
PR2525 said:
Forgive me if I missed it, but do you take your Epi before cardio or strictly before lifting?

I usually do cardio/basketball for a couple hours and then lift after. Wondering when Epi would be more effective.
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Depends on how you react to it. Some people get bad calf and back pumps from epi during cardio. Others don't. Its preference really. I usually take it in split doses throughout the day, but try to time a dose before lifting/cardio if at all possible. I like the feeling I get from it while working out.
 
ktatro1 said:
Depends on how you react to it. Some people get bad calf and back pumps from epi during cardio. Others don't. Its preference really. I usually take it in split doses throughout the day, but try to time a dose before lifting/cardio if at all possible. I like the feeling I get from it while working out.
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Cool thanks.
 
ktatro1 said:
grats on the compliments man. I'm stoked to see your progress pics. Everything sounds like its rolling along nicely.
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Thanks man! I'll probably throw up some pics on sunday. I will say to all who do want to see pics - don't expect anything above and beyond...i'm endomorphic by nature and have never seen a 6 pack. Just don't want to get everyone's hopes up......but I can definitely tell a difference this **** definitely works.

PR2525 said:
Forgive me if I missed it, but do you take your Epi before cardio or strictly before lifting?

I usually do cardio/basketball for a couple hours and then lift after. Wondering when Epi would be more effective.
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Well I try to split the doses throughout the day - and I always take it with something that has 4g of fat minimum since hormones are fat soluble. You can do either - taking it at both times will be beneficial. Here's how I dosed throughout my cycle...

30mg 1/1/1
40mg 2/1/1
50mg 2/2/1
60mg 2/2/2

ktatro1 said:
Depends on how you react to it. Some people get bad calf and back pumps from epi during cardio. Others don't. Its preference really. I usually take it in split doses throughout the day, but try to time a dose before lifting/cardio if at all possible. I like the feeling I get from it while working out.
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The best way to combat the pumps is by taking some taurine. I didn't start taking taurine until I hit 50mg. I wasn't experiencing pumps at 50mg, but I just wanted to keep my bases covered.
 
Just wanted to do an update here - today is my last day on epi - will start dosing Torem tomorrow. I'll only be able to dose Torem for close to two weeks - i'm heading on a vacation and i'm not about to hop on a plane with my SERM.

I also started taking powerfull and ZMA yesterday. Will start using a preWO and creatine today most likely.

The only thing to report over the last few days is that I have been feeling lethargic throughout the day. I've been getting about 6.5-7 hours of sleep on average, so maybe that has something to do with it. But my body just feels tired, I think when I hit my vacation (going to Puerto Rico) I will take a few days off from the gym to relax, rest, and recover.
 
So I dosed my Toremifene at 125 mg today (I have a 70ml bottle at 50mg/ml)

I'll do this for the next couple days then drop it down to 75 mg. I was curious about how this stuff tasted, so I took a drop on the tongue. Definitely had that chemical taste and was numbing to the tongue. I suspended all 125mg in a double shot glass with water and downed it. Smooth.
 
Anyone run a SERM while you're running Epi? Would you still get the Epi effect?

My problem is that 2 years ago I pulsed Epi and at the end, my knees got really bad. It was hard to get out of the car. It finally went away after like 5 or 6 months.

I just started Epi on Wednesday, and Thursday my knees started getting sore already. I immediately stopped taking it because I don't want to go through that again. I'm wondering if a SERM would stop those negative side effects if you ran it during your cycle instead of waiting until after.
 
PR2525 said:
Anyone run a SERM while you're running Epi? Would you still get the Epi effect?

My problem is that 2 years ago I pulsed Epi and at the end, my knees got really bad. It was hard to get out of the car. It finally went away after like 5 or 6 months.

I just started Epi on Wednesday, and Thursday my knees started getting sore already. I immediately stopped taking it because I don't want to go through that again. I'm wondering if a SERM would stop those negative side effects if you ran it during your cycle instead of waiting until after.
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Epi has serm & Anti-E like properties so IMO taking a SERM on cycle would be a waste IMO.
 
Just wanted to do a little update - everything seems to be coming along nicely in PCT. It's day 4 and my strength still seems to be up. Last night I squatted 350x5 after hitting a set of 315x8.

As for my supplement protocol i've been doing this....

Powerfull - 2 preCardio/2 preWO/2 preBed
LeanXtreme - 2 preCardio/2 preWO
Cycle Assist - twice a day until bottle is gone
NO Shotgun, Animal Nitro, B Complex - All preWO
Animal Nitro, Green Mag - PWO
EAA Nitro - PWO on higher carb days
BCAA Stack - 8 servings over the course of the day (16 teaspoons)
LG BCAA + EAA - During workout
Animal Pak, Flex - with breakfast
Animal Omega - 1 pack with meal 3 and 1 pack with meal 4
11-OXO - 3x per day

I'm going to slowly start tapering off of my dosage of Torem - when monday rolls around i'll be dosing around 25-50mg. As for the taper off i'll just do whatever I feel like doing. On monday i'll start Reversitol. Two weeks after the Reversitol i'll start my test booster and PCS.
 
KgTomCat said:
damn, 350x5 after 315x8!!! props man
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Thanks man! It was definitely intense - got all light-headed and wided-eyed after that one. I will say the creatine definitely helps - this is my first time using a creatine and a preworkout in 6 months.

Only thing notable from last night's back workout was DB Rows 100x10, 110x10, and 120x8. Did some Assisted pullups, HS low row, and machine pullovers after that. Also worked bi's and abs.
 
Had an awesome workout tonight....threw up the Flat DB Press @ 120x7 for the first time and that was after doing a pre-exhaust on flat flyes. Good ****ttttt.
 
ibigboy said:
So what were your total gains excluding PCT? and that's some heavy weight your lifting Good job
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I don't know if I can give you an exact number - I think scale weight is such BS. All I can tell you is that in the mirror I looked bigger and/or leaner. I was also getting compliments from others that I was looking bigger and stronger from men and women a like. Lets also bear in mind that I am endomorphic in nature and carry some fat - i have never seen my abs. But I feel like now that i'm in PCT the gains are still coming and/or i'm getting stronger. I think the creatine helps push you past where you were at @ the end of the cycle. Thanks for the good looks brother.
 
xx Zues xx said:
Sound log man, keep it up
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Thanks man!

It's been a bit since i've updated. Not a whole lot to report. PCT is going well and I have yet to see anything flare up. Strength is still up and workouts are great.

Going to Puerto Rico this weekend so i'm going to day some days off from the gym. Now I know some of you might think that taking a few days off during PCT may be a bad idea....but i'm telling you my body is in need of rest. I don't think i've had more than a day or two off since Jan/Feb. When I get back i'll be back in business. I'm still going to continue taking my PCT products and staples (basically i'll be taking everything minus my PreWO and some aminos)...except the SERM, i'm not trying to get in an airplane with that $hit.
 
I noticed you said you had a serm on hand in case of gyno/shrinkage/etc..
have you noticed any yet? testies still up to par.? i have used nolva after a epi/MMv3 run for 2 weeks with reversitol and other support supps. worked great imo.
 
Bravoboy said:
I noticed you said you had a serm on hand in case of gyno/shrinkage/etc..
have you noticed any yet? testies still up to par.? i have used nolva after a epi/MMv3 run for 2 weeks with reversitol and other support supps. worked great imo.
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I have actually been using the SERM (Toremifene Citrate) - I didn't see any sides while on cycle or in PCT. Haven't seen any negative sides yet - boys are hanging low! I'm also using AI's PCS and I-force Reversitol in my PCT regimen.
 
Just want to say that lifts have been going very well here in PCT.....

Tonight I pre-exhausted chest with some incline DB flyes for 4 sets ending with a 80x10.....went into DB Incline Press after that and put up 110x7 for the first time ever on my last set. Followed that up with some HS Decline and finished my last set with 3pps + 25, with a drop to 2pps.

Looking forward to my vacation this weekend.
 
Good work dude. Keep pushing those weights through PCT. how have your gains been strength-wise (overall)?
 
KgTomCat said:
good weight you got there bud. any pics??
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Muay Thaiger said:
Waiting for the pics!
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I've been taking pics - but just haven't had time to edit my face out of them...you never know who reads this $hit. But i'm going on vacation this weekend and get back on tuesday night, and then I leave next friday again for 10 days - basically I won't have time to get pics up until end sept/beginning oct. Just be patient and i'll get to it when I can

ktatro1 said:
Good work dude. Keep pushing those weights through PCT. how have your gains been strength-wise (overall)?
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So far they've been pretty good. I mean putting up 110s for the first time on the incline DB press was pretty sweet. I also deadlifted this week for the first time in @ least 3 months and pulled 315 with no problems (have a slipped disc that continually gives me probs so I try to stay away from DLing all together). Overall I feel like I have kept some of the strength I got on cycle....could also be from the creatine i've been taking too but whatever.
 
Tonight will be my last post for a few days and they will be spotty posts over the next few weeks at best until I am done traveling.

Had some compliments tonight that my shoulders were looking broad (I was doing shoulders/traps....)

Put up 95x5 after doing 45, 55, 65, 75, and 85 all for 10 reps a piece.

DB Shrugged 130x10 twice after doing 100x15, 110x12, and 120x10

Needless to say my strength hasn't gone anywhere! Keep up the good work everybody i'll post on here again when I can.
 
Thought I'd give an update - everything seems to be going well in PCT. Took a week off which was great. Strength is up and weight is sitting around 215-220. I'm still probably sitting around 15% bf which is fine with me - I got LOADS of compliments while I was home about looking big, being swole, people hardly recognizing me, saying like wow you're muscleman now, etc.

Stopped the SERM before vacation, finishing up powerful and reversitol, and in the middle of my activate xtreme and PCS. Starting to up my calories a tad and just eat a little more.

I've been easing back into cardio this week - going to be doing 30 mins 4 days a week tue-fri and that's it.

Also thinking about picking up a weekend job. I had an epiphany the other night when I was at the club....instead of sitting there doing nothing, drinking unnecessary calories, and wasting money I could be doing the exact opposite - doing something, not drinking (maybe even burning cals), and making money. So next this weekend or next weekend i'm going to start looking for restaurant/bar jobs.
 
TheDarkHalf said:
Thought I'd give an update - everything seems to be going well in PCT. Took a week off which was great. Strength is up and weight is sitting around 215-220. I'm still probably sitting around 15% bf which is fine with me - I got LOADS of compliments while I was home about looking big, being swole, people hardly recognizing me, saying like wow you're muscleman now, etc.

Stopped the SERM before vacation, finishing up powerful and reversitol, and in the middle of my activate xtreme and PCS. Starting to up my calories a tad and just eat a little more.

I've been easing back into cardio this week - going to be doing 30 mins 4 days a week tue-fri and that's it.

Also thinking about picking up a weekend job. I had an epiphany the other night when I was at the club....instead of sitting there doing nothing, drinking unnecessary calories, and wasting money I could be doing the exact opposite - doing something, not drinking (maybe even burning cals), and making money. So next this weekend or next weekend i'm going to start looking for restaurant/bar jobs.
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you took a week off during PCT?
 
KgTomCat said:
you took a week off during PCT?
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Yep. I needed it. My joint were sore (some still are) and I hadn't taken a week off in well over 6-8 months. Needless to say I was sore as **** the week following the week off. But during that week off I ate whatever I wanted whenever I wanted. Felt pretty good and it's not like I lost any mass either. I kept my supplements going too but dropped the aminos since I felt I was eating more than enough.
 
TheDarkHalf said:
Yep. I needed it. My joint were sore (some still are) and I hadn't taken a week off in well over 6-8 months. Needless to say I was sore as **** the week following the week off. But during that week off I ate whatever I wanted whenever I wanted. Felt pretty good and it's not like I lost any mass either. I kept my supplements going too but dropped the aminos since I felt I was eating more than enough.
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yea I feel you man, I havent taken a week off in about the same (6-8 months), I want to when my cycle ends but wont, prob just 4 or 5 days off, I seem to recover pretty quickly, but I am hurting to get loose one night...lol
 
KgTomCat said:
yea I feel you man, I havent taken a week off in about the same (6-8 months), I want to when my cycle ends but wont, prob just 4 or 5 days off, I seem to recover pretty quickly, but I am hurting to get loose one night...lol
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I feel like taking a week off once a month would be beneficial - hit it hard for 3 weeks, rest, hit it hard for 3 weeks, rest.
 
Just wanted to do an update. it's been a while but pct is all about said and done.

I feel like i'm still gaining. I feel like I look bigger in the mirror. Good ****!

I've been doing cardio 4x per week for 30 mins each session upon waking. Usually 1 or 2 of those days I run. The other days i do HIIT, jump rope, walking incline (15.0 @ 3.5mph) - but usually a combination. I feel like this has really been increasing my endurance in the gym, as well as cutting down my body fat but still giving me room to grow.

My diet has looked like the following:

meal 1 - 25g whey, Simple carb of choice (25g C), 1/2 cup oats (25g C), 10-15g protein from other source, 10g fat from natty pb

meal 2 - 8oz lean beef (16g fat 45-50g pro), green beans

meal 3 - 2 4oz chicken breast (40-50g pro), lots of broccoli, handful almonds (16g fat, 7g pro)

meal 4 - 2 cans tuna (in oil - 6g fat, 40-50g pro), 4oz asparagus, EFA/Fish oil supp (7g fat)

PWO - EAA Nitro + Green Mag (25-30g C)

meal 5 - 1/2 oats (25g C), natty pb (10g fat), 1 scoop whey (25g pro), 1 scoop casein (25g pro)

meal 6 - 4 whole egg omlette with cheese and two slices of whole wheat toast OR 1 serving whole wheat pasta with 1 serving pasta sauce of your choice and protein source of your choice

So yea that's kinda what i've been doing, feeling great!
 
abnxtwo said:
Looks good Dark you seem to have everything under control, would love to see some before and afta pics.
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Thanks man. I have pics taken, problem is that i never have the time (or remember) to edit my photos. I can't have my face shown in here simply because nobody knows I take PH/DS outside of this forum and i'd like to keep it that way. But someday I will get around to it, at which point i'll throw up some pics.
 
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