Getting Lean and Mean with Epi/11-oxo (log)

TBULL said:
not epi.. jus good w**d lol. I like to smoke once in a while when im real sore ..
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Yea it very well could have been - I could have also just gotten WAY too high. I'm going to test the waters again just for the sake of the log and will report what happens.
 
i am interested tho.. how has the leaning effects of epi been? any signs of shutdown ? I have some that im waiting to start.. whatare your expectations for the 11oxo ?
 
ilovefish said:
Haha for the sake of the log :smokin: lol Nice job so far man
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TBULL said:
for the sake of the log..:sasmokin::sasmokin:
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Haha. The only way to confirm if it was a random fluke or not is to try it again. That and hopefully will contribute to the knowledge of others and to the forum.

TBULL said:
i am interested tho.. how has the leaning effects of epi been? any signs of shutdown ? I have some that im waiting to start.. whatare your expectations for the 11oxo ?
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To be honest I haven't noticed much yet. But bear in mind i'm only into the beginning of week 2. I haven't really noticed any shutdown at all....I find myself staring at ass all the time with the occasional hard on. Throw on the porn and no problems there either. No noticeable sides thus far.

As for the 11-oxo, i'm taking the Icon from star chem labs. It's the 11-ketatestosterone so it doesn't have to convert. To be honest...i've been thinking about throwing in lean extreme while I take that 11-oxo (i'd like opinions on that).
 
Chest

Incline BB - 250x3

Flat DB - 100x4

Flat DB Flyes - 80x5

BW Dips - 4 sets to failure

Did a few sets of calves and forarms

AM Cardio - 15 min bike, 30 min elliptical, 5 min jump rope
PM Cardio - 20 min incline treadmill
 
I wanted to possiby throw in anabo;ic pump or slinsane on an epi cycle to see how that feels/ works. I am doing the asteroid stack right now and love the way AP feels when i take it in the morning.. I get kind of lightheaded and know its time for the complex carbs..its a cool feeling i would think it would intensify the the epi cycle
 
TBULL said:
I wanted to possiby throw in anabo;ic pump or slinsane on an epi cycle to see how that feels/ works. I am doing the asteroid stack right now and love the way AP feels when i take it in the morning.. I get kind of lightheaded and know its time for the complex carbs..its a cool feeling i would think it would intensify the the epi cycle
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I think if your diet and training is right you shouldn't really need anything else besides your regulars supps like a multi, aminos, omegas, joint support, and support supps (taurine, b-vitamins, liver support).

But if you want to try it just do your homework before you do. See if anyone else has done that previously and ask them questions.
 
TBULL said:
I wanted to possiby throw in anabo;ic pump or slinsane on an epi cycle to see how that feels/ works. I am doing the asteroid stack right now and love the way AP feels when i take it in the morning.. I get kind of lightheaded and know its time for the complex carbs..its a cool feeling i would think it would intensify the the epi cycle
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ap and pslin are pretty cool on cycle....ive been using i-load from professional supplements lately and it blows them both away though.....but nothing beats 10iu of slin post workout!
 
I might have to look into some pslin and i-load then!

Shoulders and Traps

Standing BB Presses - 5-6 sets at 135

BB Shrug - 315x6

Arnolds - 70x6

Seated Bent Over Rear Delt DB Raises - 30x10 for 4 sets

DB Laterals - 40x8

DB Shrugs - 140x5

AM Cardio - 40 min incline tread, 5 min run, 5 min jump rope

I think i'm going to try some amino acid overdosing...here's what i'm looking at

3 servings of BCAA stack in the AM
1 pack Animal Nitro preWO
1 serving LG Science's BCAA+EAA intraWO
1 pack Animal Nitro PWO
3 servings of BCAA stack in the PM
 
TheDarkHalf said:
I might have to look into some pslin and i-load then!

Shoulders and Traps

Standing BB Presses - 5-6 sets at 135

BB Shrug - 315x6

Arnolds - 70x6

Seated Bent Over Rear Delt DB Raises - 30x10 for 4 sets

DB Laterals - 40x8

DB Shrugs - 140x5

AM Cardio - 40 min incline tread, 5 min run, 5 min jump rope

I think i'm going to try some amino acid overdosing...here's what i'm looking at

3 servings of BCAA stack in the AM
1 pack Animal Nitro preWO
1 serving LG Science's BCAA+EAA intraWO
1 pack Animal Nitro PWO
3 servings of BCAA stack in the PM
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i-load is bad as$!!!!!! i dont think you can overdose on the old aminos either....but you sure as hell can try!!!!!! i use ten scoops of x-tend aound my workouts.....4 in a pre/intra dose and 6 post....
 
mooch2321 said:
i-load is bad as$!!!!!! i dont think you can overdose on the old aminos either....but you sure as hell can try!!!!!! i use ten scoops of x-tend aound my workouts.....4 in a pre/intra dose and 6 post....
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you must be going through x-tend like its milk...
 
mooch2321 said:
i-load is bad as$!!!!!! i dont think you can overdose on the old aminos either....but you sure as hell can try!!!!!! i use ten scoops of x-tend aound my workouts.....4 in a pre/intra dose and 6 post....
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Haha well i've heard nothing but good things from taking an excessive amount. 5 servings of x-tend is a **** ton of aminos....but then again i'm getting my fair share as well!

KgTomCat said:
you must be going through x-tend like its milk...
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Haha what he said!

Some highlights as the per usual...had triceps and hams tonight

CGBP - 245x2
Rope Pulldowns - L12x6
Seated BB Extensions - 100x5
Triangle Pressdowns - L13x6

Ham/Glute Machine - 150x10
Seated Leg Curl - 150x10
Lying Leg Curl - 150x8
Incline Leg Press ** feet were placed in top left and right corners ** really felt this in my hams.... 7pps x7

AM Cardio - 40 min incline tread - 5 min run - 10 min jump rope
PM Cardio - 15 min bike
 
KgTomCat said:
thats alot for your hams, must be dead, good positioning on the leg press though!
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Yea I used to work legs all in one day. Now, I split quads and hams into two different days. Allows me to hit each harder and allows my legs to recover faster.
 
Just wanted to update a little bit here. Sunday morning I woke up and weighed in at 209 - up 2lbs from the week before. Didn't take any pics, i'll probably just do that every other week. I had a few drinks with some friends sat night (4 or 5 drinks over the course of 6-7 hours) and ate out as well which may or may not have contributed to my +2 gain. But a +2 gain over the course of a week I don't consider much cause for concern as I imagine it was some water weight. Yesterday was my free day and I just kind of ate whatever and had a really big dinner party last night. Good times. Didn't dare step on that scale this morning....I felt bloated as all hell.

Anyways everything is going great so far. Strength is continuing to climb and no noticeable sides as of yet. I may even bump my dosage up to 40 mg a few days early since this is my last week on 30mg. May bump it up to 40 on wed and then ride 40 mg till the end of week 6.
 
no sides sounds good as well with the increase in strength! I wouldn't let go too much on the weekends, but thats just me...
 
KgTomCat said:
no sides sounds good as well with the increase in strength! I wouldn't let go too much on the weekends, but thats just me...
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I totally agree. I keep the drinking in check (easier on the liver and on my wallet) and I just have sunday as my free day to break from my diet and eat some of the foods that I don't get to eat anymore (milk, ice cream, cereal, pizza, pancakes/waffles, go out to eat, etc)
 
Coachese said:
Good log. I like all the detail you've provided and will keep a sharp eye on your progress!
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Thanks brother I appreciate it. Always glad to have another mind in the journey.

Here's how Quads and Calves went tonight....

Leg Ext - 265x8

Back Squats - 315x3

Front Squats - 225x6

Hack Squat Machine - 3pps x6

Seated Calf Raise - 160x10

Rotary Calf Machine - 310x10 drop to 170 to failure

Standing Calf - 195x10

Today I felt a little weak and I'll chalk this one up to the dinner party last night - I was up until about 12:30/1am and woke up at about 7:30. Sleep is one of the most underrated things fellas if you can get 8+ hours of sleep a night then get it. One can never have too much rest!

However I will say I felt like I got away with doing less weight and got a sicker pump than normal. Legs are rocked!

No cardio today as it's leg day and I enjoy being able to sleep in on a monday.
 
TheDarkHalf said:
I totally agree. I keep the drinking in check (easier on the liver and on my wallet) and I just have sunday as my free day to break from my diet and eat some of the foods that I don't get to eat anymore (milk, ice cream, cereal, pizza, pancakes/waffles, go out to eat, etc)
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IHOP :afro:
 
Felt strong tonight.....

Smith BB Rows - 265x6

HS High Row - 4pps x4

Lat Pulldowns - L14x6

DB Curls - 55x5

Concentration Curls - 40x8

BB Reverse Curls - 70x6

Preacher Machine Curl - 70, drop to 50, drop to 20 all to fail
 
ktatro1 said:
Any noticable differeneces in vascularity?
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I will say i've noticed so more vascularity in my forearms. Not like out of the world....but definitely a few extra veins that didn't use to be there and the ones that are there seem a little larger.

In my biceps i've noticed a lot of subQ veins sprouting up. Dark blue lines underneath the skin.

And the big winner where I notice it the most is when I do BB or DB Shrugs. I see veins pop out all over my upper chest, traps, and neck.

I also want to report that there is some sort of stacking effect between marijuana and epistane. They both intensify each other. As I said i'd give smoking a shot again to see if I could produce similar results to the situation I described previously in the log. So, I basically only needed to take a hit or two of pot and I was high for hours. This weed was nothing special and was the same batch as the week before. So for those of you that do smoke pot and want to do a cycle of epistane - smoke very small amounts if any....no more than a few hits just to see how you feel and then smoke more about 30 mins later if you feel it necessary. But all in all it's not a bad thing.....i'll be smoking less pot and still get just as high.
 
TheDarkHalf said:
Today I felt a little weak and I'll chalk this one up to the dinner party last night - I was up until about 12:30/1am and woke up at about 7:30. Sleep is one of the most underrated things fellas if you can get 8+ hours of sleep a night then get it. One can never have too much rest!
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And yet it's always one of the first things we sacrifice! The difference between say 8 hours of deep sleep per night and 6.5 is the difference between great gains and only good!
 
Coachese said:
And yet it's always one of the first things we sacrifice! The difference between say 8 hours of deep sleep per night and 6.5 is the difference between great gains and only good!
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I generally get 7 hours during the weekdays....and closer to 9-10 on the weekends. But yea you're totally right, we always sacrifice sleep first.
 
TheDarkHalf said:
I also want to report that there is some sort of stacking effect between marijuana and epistane. They both intensify each other. As I said i'd give smoking a shot again to see if I could produce similar results to the situation I described previously in the log. So, I basically only needed to take a hit or two of pot and I was high for hours. This weed was nothing special and was the same batch as the week before. So for those of you that do smoke pot and want to do a cycle of epistane - smoke very small amounts if any....no more than a few hits just to see how you feel and then smoke more about 30 mins later if you feel it necessary. But all in all it's not a bad thing.....i'll be smoking less pot and still get just as high.
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oh god... I'm already a one-hit wonder as is, and I was debating smoking a couple of times when I start my cycle to help appetite... and kick back a bit as I wont be drinking

I'll letcha know if I have similar results. Then again, I might just get my normal out-of-this-world blazingly ripped and not notice anything unusual :laugh2:
 
spadesofaces said:
oh god... I'm already a one-hit wonder as is, and I was debating smoking a couple of times when I start my cycle to help appetite... and kick back a bit as I wont be drinking

I'll letcha know if I have similar results. Then again, I might just get my normal out-of-this-world blazingly ripped and not notice anything unusual :laugh2:
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The only difference between my two experiments was as follows... the original that produced the negative effects was done so with a 20in glass water bong...and over last weekend I just smoked out of a small hitter and/or a glass chillum.
 
Numbers are climbing......

Chest

Did more sets than usual tonight but focused on 6 rep sets (with the exception of my last set)

Flat BB Bench - 285x2

Incline DB Bench - 100x5

Flat DB Flies - 85x4

BW Dips - 4 sets of 8 and threw in some random pauses here and there

Rotary Calf Machine - Four 20 rep sets (ramping the weight) with 10 raises from the floor in between (oh yea...no breaks either)

Machine Flyes - just did a giant drop set...don't recall numbers but dropped the weight 4-5 times.

15 min ab class

AM Cardio - 35 min incline tread, 5 min run, 10 min jump rope
PM Cardio - 5 min on bike
 
I would also like to make a note in the log at this point that my grandfather has passed away today.....and that I'll be returning home friday morning.

Luckily there is a golds gym 5 mins from my house and I will be not missing a beat in training. However my diet will most likely be wrecked for the next 4-5 days. When I return I will resume my carb cycle and will be turning things down to this until I hit PCT:

Sunday - Free day
Monday - 300p/250c/100f
Tuesday - 300p/150c/100f
Wednesday - 300p/50c/100f
Thurs - repeat mon
Fri - repeat tue
Sat - repeat wed
 
I know I asked you before, but I forgot, how are you doing our cardio? your mixing it up right? I know I will...HIIT, long duration, low intensity, interval, etc..

sorry to hear about the passing, stay focused brotha
 
KgTomCat said:
I know I asked you before, but I forgot, how are you doing our cardio? your mixing it up right? I know I will...HIIT, long duration, low intensity, interval, etc..

sorry to hear about the passing, stay focused brotha
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For the most part it will be steady state in the morning. I usually like to end the steady state with a brief run and some jump rope. I also will probably throw in PWO cardio when and if I have time....probably stairmaster.

I'm also planning on trying out carries saturday and sunday.....you can read about them on T-Nation - it's a newer article and should be on the main page. I'll link it if you can' find it.

TBULL said:
sorry to hear about your gpa man.. the gym is a great way to think and work out depression..
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It's a great way for me to forget about everything else. My zone where I can go and it's nothing but me and the iron....

and maybe an occasional cardio bunny :scool:
 
Sorry about the passing man. Working out definitely helped me when my grandparents died. Its a good way to exhaust yourself and keep your mind off things. I hope all goes well man. Keep us updated.
 
Hey man im sorry for your loss, your right though when life is sucking for me the gym is the only place i feel free, keep working hard.
 
ktatro1 said:
Sorry about the passing man. Working out definitely helped me when my grandparents died. Its a good way to exhaust yourself and keep your mind off things. I hope all goes well man. Keep us updated.
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Thanks man. I fly out tomorrow morning from Reagan National at 6:20am and will return tuesday night. If all goes according to plan I will be working out everyday while i'm at home. I'll be updating this log as best I can.
 
Alright everyone, after a long weekend i'm finally back to posting. My diet went to **** over my mini-vacay home to take care of the funeral. Not much I could do about it, but I made the best decisions I could while I was home. It was nice to see family and old friends. The service went well, and it was nice to have the opportunity to say goodbye to my grandfather.

Thank you all for your kind words and continued support!

I lifted everyday as I said I would and upped my dosage to 40mg on monday. So far 40mg has been treating me right - haven't noticed any negative side effects and have been cruising along just fine. I will say I feel like my libido is up.....I've been getting random wood on the occasion.

Had Chest tonight.....here's the highlight reel

Incline BP - 225x5

Decline BP - 225x10

Flat DB - 95x6

Incline DB Flyes - 60x10

HS Decline - 2pps x10
superset with pushups

3 sets of standing calf raises @ 175
superset with 10 raises from the floor

15 min ab class @ Golds

AM Cardio - 35 min incline tread, 10 min jump rope
PM Cardio - 10 min stairmaster
 
as long as your eating the best you can dont sweat it bro...bust your balls in the gym and you'll be okay
 
KgTomCat said:
as long as your eating the best you can dont sweat it bro...bust your balls in the gym and you'll be okay
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Yep! I still hit it pretty well when I was home and had the opportunity to train a friend of mine who hadn't weight lifted in a few years. Good stuff!
 
Here is the game reel from shoulders and traps....

Arnolds - 70x7

45lb Plate Raises - 5 sets of 8

DB Laterals - 40x6

Leaning Side Laterals - 40x6

Smith Shoulder Press - 155x??
(Did these nice and slow and controlled, focused more on feel and pump then reps)

DB Shrugs - 130x6

BB Shrugs - 315x6

AM Cardio - 35 min incline tread, 10 min jump rope

Feeling good on the 40 mg - only thing i've noticed is a minor increase in blood pressure (via the occassional minor headache but they are brief..60 sec or less)....no acne, no emotional sides, no shutdown, etc. Everything feels good except for my knee and lower back - knee i aggrivated a few weeks ago with running and DB lunges. Back has been a problem since i injured it doing good mornings. If I feel good with a solid two weeks of 40 with no sides i may bump it up to 50mg for my last week.

Starting to dial the diet down just a tad. Carb cycle days are now at 250, 150, and 50.
 
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